Comments on: Another Crustless Quiche http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html Expressing Our Primal Genes for Lean Health, Vitality and Attractiveness Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:28:28 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-10714 Richard Nikoley Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:45:29 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-10714 Hmm, seems I can't access that paper in either Safari or Firefox. But it doesn't look like I'm missing much. Hmm, seems I can’t access that paper in either Safari or Firefox. But it doesn’t look like I’m missing much.

]]> By: simona http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-10696 simona Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:11:44 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-10696 I have taken the time and energy and read the link that Sean provided to Milton. 1. It states that the few adaptations to diet that would serve to differentiate us from the great apes (!!) have happened in the last 12 thousands years. Would that correlate with the other references given that say that humans have changed recently? Maybe. How is that a critique of Paleo diet? Many races are still not adapted to milk and gluten containing grains still cause many clear and documented problems in a significant percentage of the population at large. 2. I don't agree with Milton that humans as anthropoid primates have an evolutionary history of more than thirty million years in which no important changes to the physiology have happened. She puts it down to behaviour not food intake. Maybe she doesn't know about Kleiber's principle referred to in dr. Eades post on human evolution. Why was there an expansion in the brain size and how did it happen? No discussion about that. Then, she goes on to compare the human diet with that of extant wild primates.(!) Just because somebody is an academic of a certain status and has published books full of references doesn't mean that you just have to take everything they say as gospel. I wonder what does Cordain have to say about her disagreeing with him. I have taken the time and energy and read the link that Sean provided to Milton.
1. It states that the few adaptations to diet that would serve to differentiate us from the great apes (!!) have happened in the last 12 thousands years. Would that correlate with the other references given that say that humans have changed recently? Maybe. How is that a critique of Paleo diet? Many races are still not adapted to milk and gluten containing grains still cause many clear and documented problems in a significant percentage of the population at large.
2. I don’t agree with Milton that humans as anthropoid primates have an evolutionary history of more than thirty million years in which no important changes to the physiology have happened. She puts it down to behaviour not food intake. Maybe she doesn’t know about Kleiber’s principle referred to in dr. Eades post on human evolution. Why was there an expansion in the brain size and how did it happen? No discussion about that. Then, she goes on to compare the human diet with that of extant wild primates.(!)
Just because somebody is an academic of a certain status and has published books full of references doesn’t mean that you just have to take everything they say as gospel. I wonder what does Cordain have to say about her disagreeing with him.

]]> By: www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-45 www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:28:42 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-45 <p>I agree Richard. The real Mediterranean Diet is very good, and certainly not low saturated fat in the least. In fact it's quite rich in it, with the French leading the way out of a diet that is already rich in that whole area.</p> <p>Nothing beats the first hand experience living there. </p> <p>Also, I think your diet is on the mark. Saturated fat has been so demonized. Despite decades of propaganda, the clinical dietary intervention studiesto date do not show that saturated fat restriction reduces CAD incidence CAD mortality or total mortality. Minnesota Coronary Survey, National Diet Heart Study, Rose et al, Women's Health Inititaive 2006 are all examples. If you can get the full text of these it would be worth your while. Just read the original papers and the full text. The summaries are very midleading.</p> <p></p> <p>If one reads the full text of the Anti Coronary Club (another of the 18 clinical intervention studies to date) they will see that after 4 years subjects in the "prudent diet" group (treatment) had lowered their cholesterol levels to 225 mg/dl , while those in the control group (animal fat) remained at thir initial cholesterol level of 265 mg/dl . After reading the summary of the study which made no mention of death rates, (only focusing on the "impressive" cholesterol reduction) one could conclude it was an outstanding success.</p> <p>In the middle of the full text of the original paper you'll see that the control subjects had NO deaths from CAD while those eating the prudent diet had 9 CAD deaths. Deaths from all causes were 27 in the treatment group vs 6 in the controls.</p> <p>I , just like you Richard, can't stand what goes on with the cholesterol scam.<br /> </p> <p>I'm sorry for all the effort you had to go to, so I won't do the trolling. </p> <p></p> <p>TC</p> <p>Sean</p> I agree Richard. The real Mediterranean Diet is very good, and certainly not low saturated fat in the least. In fact it's quite rich in it, with the French leading the way out of a diet that is already rich in that whole area.

Nothing beats the first hand experience living there.

Also, I think your diet is on the mark. Saturated fat has been so demonized. Despite decades of propaganda, the clinical dietary intervention studiesto date do not show that saturated fat restriction reduces CAD incidence CAD mortality or total mortality. Minnesota Coronary Survey, National Diet Heart Study, Rose et al, Women's Health Inititaive 2006 are all examples. If you can get the full text of these it would be worth your while. Just read the original papers and the full text. The summaries are very midleading.

If one reads the full text of the Anti Coronary Club (another of the 18 clinical intervention studies to date) they will see that after 4 years subjects in the "prudent diet" group (treatment) had lowered their cholesterol levels to 225 mg/dl , while those in the control group (animal fat) remained at thir initial cholesterol level of 265 mg/dl . After reading the summary of the study which made no mention of death rates, (only focusing on the "impressive" cholesterol reduction) one could conclude it was an outstanding success.

In the middle of the full text of the original paper you'll see that the control subjects had NO deaths from CAD while those eating the prudent diet had 9 CAD deaths. Deaths from all causes were 27 in the treatment group vs 6 in the controls.

I , just like you Richard, can't stand what goes on with the cholesterol scam.

I'm sorry for all the effort you had to go to, so I won't do the trolling.

TC

Sean

]]> By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-44 Richard Nikoley Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:58:55 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-44 <p>There's a precautionary principle in place.</p> <p>For me, I just simply do really, really great on this diet. I'm not about to tell someone that they ought to do this if they don't feel great in doing it.</p> <p>I have always maintained that a proper Paleo diet is an individual one. Paleoliths existed from equator to arctic circle, from moderately high to low carb. Find what works for you and go with it.</p> <p>Caveat: How you feel in a quotidian sense, medium to long term is more important that even controlled studies, provided you're not supplementing your feelings with inebriates on a regular basis.<br /> </p> There's a precautionary principle in place.

For me, I just simply do really, really great on this diet. I'm not about to tell someone that they ought to do this if they don't feel great in doing it.

I have always maintained that a proper Paleo diet is an individual one. Paleoliths existed from equator to arctic circle, from moderately high to low carb. Find what works for you and go with it.

Caveat: How you feel in a quotidian sense, medium to long term is more important that even controlled studies, provided you're not supplementing your feelings with inebriates on a regular basis.

]]> By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-43 Richard Nikoley Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:45:51 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-43 <p>My only complaint is that it wastes my time in figuring it out.</p> <p>Give me a heads up in email and then have at it. I think this kind of trolling can be valuable.</p> <p>As I understand it, you "grok" the reality, but you toss up the arguments that have been used against you (I recall you telling me that).</p> <p>I am interested to know, however, if the real you thinks Paleo (in my high sat fat style) is that far off the mark. I actually don't think a REAL Med diet is bad. It's good. I lived on the Med in France for two years. Everyone talks about the wine, veggies, fruit, seafood, but nobody wants to mention the enormous fat they eat via cheese, dairy, sauces, & meats.</p> <p>A true Med diet is pretty damn high in sat fat. Also, Americans in general have no idea how they actually eat bread & pasta. Compared to us, they eat way less of it.</p> <p><a href="http://www.freetheanimal.com/root/2008/10/paleo-trumps-faux-mediterranean.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.freetheanimal.com/root/2008/10/paleo-trumps-faux-mediterranean.html</a><br /> </p> My only complaint is that it wastes my time in figuring it out.

Give me a heads up in email and then have at it. I think this kind of trolling can be valuable.

As I understand it, you "grok" the reality, but you toss up the arguments that have been used against you (I recall you telling me that).

I am interested to know, however, if the real you thinks Paleo (in my high sat fat style) is that far off the mark. I actually don't think a REAL Med diet is bad. It's good. I lived on the Med in France for two years. Everyone talks about the wine, veggies, fruit, seafood, but nobody wants to mention the enormous fat they eat via cheese, dairy, sauces, & meats.

A true Med diet is pretty damn high in sat fat. Also, Americans in general have no idea how they actually eat bread & pasta. Compared to us, they eat way less of it.

http://www.freetheanimal.com/root/2008/10/paleo-trumps-faux-mediterranean.html

]]> By: www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-42 www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:36:39 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-42 <p>Sorry for the trolling Richard. I promise I won't do it anymore. </p> <p>Sean</p> Sorry for the trolling Richard. I promise I won't do it anymore.

Sean

]]> By: www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-41 www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ Sun, 05 Jul 2009 08:41:03 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-41 <p>I will say this though, yours and Mark Sisson's method of exercising DOES work. </p> <p> Sisson is an expert on fitness and running. I just don't get why the both of you (and the like)don't just say here is MY method, it works, and modern science has shown this . </p> <p>Rather than spout "paleo stuff" that is based on nothig but speculation, and the false claim that our genes are just like Paleolithic Era man ?</p> I will say this though, yours and Mark Sisson's method of exercising DOES work.

Sisson is an expert on fitness and running. I just don't get why the both of you (and the like)don't just say here is MY method, it works, and modern science has shown this .

Rather than spout "paleo stuff" that is based on nothig but speculation, and the false claim that our genes are just like Paleolithic Era man ?

]]> By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-40 Richard Nikoley Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:33:58 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-40 <p>Well, at least you come clean.</p> <p>Listen: to the extent I know what's going on, then props. I can even see long term value to trolls such as this.</p> <p>I just don't like the waste of my time that it takes to get to the bottom of things.<br /> </p> Well, at least you come clean.

Listen: to the extent I know what's going on, then props. I can even see long term value to trolls such as this.

I just don't like the waste of my time that it takes to get to the bottom of things.

]]> By: www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-39 www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:00:45 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-39 <p><a href="http://nature.berkeley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/humandiet.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://nature.berkeley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/humandiet.pdf</a></p> <p><br /> </p> http://nature.berkeley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/humandiet.pdf

]]> By: www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ http://freetheanimal.com/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-38 www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmJJDWFPnvVAAYerofCti3utb07d2H_xlQ Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:58:56 +0000 http://localhost/animal/2009/06/another-crustless-quiche.html#comment-38 <p>Another well respected scientists supports what I say. Professor Katherine Milton of the University of California in Berkley says</p> <p>"there is little evidence to suggest that human nutritional requirements or human digestive physiology were significantly affected by such diets at ANY point in human evolution".</p> <p></p> <p><a href="http://nature.berkley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/humandiet.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://nature.berkley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/humandiet.pdf</a></p> <p></p> <p><br /> When you get your info from BLOGS people , this is what happens. You gall prey to MISINFORMATION of MARKETERS trying to make a buck off of YOU.</p> Another well respected scientists supports what I say. Professor Katherine Milton of the University of California in Berkley says

"there is little evidence to suggest that human nutritional requirements or human digestive physiology were significantly affected by such diets at ANY point in human evolution".

http://nature.berkley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/humandiet.pdf

When you get your info from BLOGS people , this is what happens. You gall prey to MISINFORMATION of MARKETERS trying to make a buck off of YOU.

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