Comments on: The Vegetarian Menace http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html Expressing Our Primal Genes for Lean Health, Vitality and Attractiveness Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:18:50 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12405 Richard Nikoley Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:01:56 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12405 Thanks for adding and clarifying that. Good to know. Thanks for adding and clarifying that. Good to know.

]]> By: PaleoPhil http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12390 PaleoPhil Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:05:40 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12390 Great post. I suspect that 1982 Richard Leakey quote from the journal Nature (which unfortunately requires payment for access) was taken out of context, based on other later Leakey quotes that zealous vegetarians will never tell you about, such as the following from People of the Lake (1988 edition): pp. 83-84: "Hominids started making stone tools to a purposeful and organized pattern at least 2.5 million years ago, and probably earlier. .... We can only guess how our ancestors used these tools in their daily lives: they would have to slice meat occasionally, perhaps using the small or bladelike flakes...." page 99: "Anyone who has experienced life in a hunter-gatherer camp knows that meat is much less of a simple [much more special and valued] body fuel than is plant food. When a man brings meat, whether it is a small springhare slung casually over a shoulder, or a large meaty limb sliced from a big antelope, ripples of excitement rapidly spread throughout the whole camp: the bigger the prize, the greater the excitement." Great post. I suspect that 1982 Richard Leakey quote from the journal Nature (which unfortunately requires payment for access) was taken out of context, based on other later Leakey quotes that zealous vegetarians will never tell you about, such as the following from People of the Lake (1988 edition):

pp. 83-84: “Hominids started making stone tools to a purposeful and organized pattern at least 2.5 million years ago, and probably earlier. ….

We can only guess how our ancestors used these tools in their daily lives: they would have to slice meat occasionally, perhaps using the small or bladelike flakes….”

page 99: “Anyone who has experienced life in a hunter-gatherer camp knows that meat is much less of a simple [much more special and valued] body fuel than is plant food. When a man brings meat, whether it is a small springhare slung casually over a shoulder, or a large meaty limb sliced from a big antelope, ripples of excitement rapidly spread throughout the whole camp: the bigger the prize, the greater the excitement.”

]]> By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12092 Richard Nikoley Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:35:25 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12092 "the truth is that if right now we all turned to hunter-gatherers right now, the biosphere would be distroyed." The truth is that's not going to happen. In the meantime, I'm eating as my nature demands. Really, I see this lame "argument" all the time: "everybody can't eat like that." So that means those who can & do should sacrifice health and well being? Nonsense. “the truth is that if right now we all turned to hunter-gatherers right now, the biosphere would be distroyed.”

The truth is that’s not going to happen. In the meantime, I’m eating as my nature demands.

Really, I see this lame “argument” all the time: “everybody can’t eat like that.” So that means those who can & do should sacrifice health and well being? Nonsense.

]]> By: erik http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12072 erik Sun, 03 Jan 2010 06:11:49 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-12072 strange, its seems you do the very thing that you claim all vegans do, preach. Your little anictdote could easily be turned on your own views. the truth is that if right now we all turned to hunter-gatherers right now, the biosphere would be distroyed. strange, its seems you do the very thing that you claim all vegans do, preach. Your little anictdote could easily be turned on your own views. the truth is that if right now we all turned to hunter-gatherers right now, the biosphere would be distroyed.

]]> By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-10305 Richard Nikoley Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:51:04 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-10305 Well, I think it's safe to infer that we aren't natural vegetarians. And sure, we probably don't need Neanderthal to know that, although it's just one more logical piece of the whole picture. There's also this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1183600/How-Neanderthals-met-grisly-end--ate-them.html And now, this: http://freetheanimal.com/2009/11/did-neanderthals-hunt-rape-homo-sapiens.html Well, I think it’s safe to infer that we aren’t natural vegetarians. And sure, we probably don’t need Neanderthal to know that, although it’s just one more logical piece of the whole picture.

There’s also this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1183600/How-Neanderthals-met-grisly-end–ate-them.html

And now, this:

http://freetheanimal.com/2009/11/did-neanderthals-hunt-rape-homo-sapiens.html

]]> By: Matt Perry http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-10298 Matt Perry Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:14:46 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-10298 While it is true that neanderthal's diet consisted almost entirely of meat, humans were omnivorous, eating a variety of small animals, plants and fish [1]. We are hunter-gatherers not just hunters. Neanderthals went extinct about 40k years ago and human lived on - we have almost no DNA in common with our carnivorous cousins [2] except for a common ancestor some 700k years ago when the species diverged. Therefore you can't really infer anything about optimal human diet based on neanderthal diet. [1] http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/08/comparison-of-neanerthal-and-modern.html [2] http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/03/quantifying-extent-of-possible.html While it is true that neanderthal’s diet consisted almost entirely of meat, humans were omnivorous, eating a variety of small animals, plants and fish [1]. We are hunter-gatherers not just hunters. Neanderthals went extinct about 40k years ago and human lived on – we have almost no DNA in common with our carnivorous cousins [2] except for a common ancestor some 700k years ago when the species diverged. Therefore you can’t really infer anything about optimal human diet based on neanderthal diet.

[1] http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/08/comparison-of-neanerthal-and-modern.html
[2] http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/03/quantifying-extent-of-possible.html

]]> By: gallier2 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9970 gallier2 Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:48:30 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9970 pjnoir said > population control would do the world some good. Start by yourself, kill yourself or at least sterilize yourself. I hate it when people want to downsize others. This said I think the problem is the other way round. We have a population explosion because of the false nutrition beliefs of agriculturalism. pjnoir said
> population control would do the world some good.

Start by yourself, kill yourself or at least sterilize yourself. I hate it when people want to downsize others. This said I think the problem is the other way round. We have a population explosion because of the false nutrition beliefs of agriculturalism.

]]> By: pjnoir http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9967 pjnoir Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:39:48 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9967 I don't know how we can feed the world. I know the countries that are starving just want a full belly once in a while and the countries of the west that are obese really need to eat a whole lot less and the right type of food. When food is big business we have big problems. Less is more- population control would do the world some good. Less war, less pollution, less demands onthe land. Of course the Catholic Church will freak out.... see it is a good idea. I don’t know how we can feed the world. I know the countries that are starving just want a full belly once in a while and the countries of the west that are obese really need to eat a whole lot less and the right type of food. When food is big business we have big problems.
Less is more- population control would do the world some good. Less war, less pollution, less demands onthe land. Of course the Catholic Church will freak out…. see it is a good idea.

]]> By: Richard Nikoley http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9165 Richard Nikoley Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:39:09 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9165 I would say that a vegetarian or vegan diet is intrinsically _unnatural_, and that's the solid truth. We are not herbivores.<br><br>So, can one then make a healthy diet nonetheless? Perhaps, with a lot of effort. I'll bet most don't, particularly for those whose focus is moral or political, not health. People who focus on health do better regardless of dietary composition primarily because they avoid eating lots of junk.<br><br>That said, the same effort put towards a natural diet that includes animal and/or fish protein is likely to fare better, given similar effort. I would say that a vegetarian or vegan diet is intrinsically _unnatural_, and that's the solid truth. We are not herbivores.

So, can one then make a healthy diet nonetheless? Perhaps, with a lot of effort. I'll bet most don't, particularly for those whose focus is moral or political, not health. People who focus on health do better regardless of dietary composition primarily because they avoid eating lots of junk.

That said, the same effort put towards a natural diet that includes animal and/or fish protein is likely to fare better, given similar effort.

]]> By: NicoleT http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9163 NicoleT Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:37:52 +0000 http://freetheanimal.com/2009/07/the-vegetarian-menace.html#comment-9163 Exactly, Richard! There are cases of "don’t confuse me with the facts because in my heart I know I’m right" all over this place, and I just wanted to point out that this "vegan/vegetarian = intrinsically unhealthy" idea that is pervading here is not the truth many of you are making it out to be. And I cited my reference :) Exactly, Richard! There are cases of “don’t confuse me with the facts because in my heart I know I’m right” all over this place, and I just wanted to point out that this “vegan/vegetarian = intrinsically unhealthy” idea that is pervading here is not the truth many of you are making it out to be. And I cited my reference :)

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