That would be the very last phrase from the four pages I’ll link to, but later.
Lierre Keith; what a find. I opened what will doubtless be a series in promotion of her work, right here: The Vegetarian Myth. And, no, I’ll continue to be as ruthless with the opportunists who think they can get away with comment Bullshit here, in this post, as there, in that one. No quarter for those who would argue that you continue to evade…uh, reality. Ms. Keith can do what she does to try and talk sense to them; which, I gather, is nearly impossible for her, even as a 20-year ex-vegan. …Well, hey, I’ve been an atheist for 20 years and can’t count even a single theist who has embraced — due my influence — reality over sweet fairy tale — in spite of gargantuan effort (you can search the blog, as it used to be) — so I have some experience with what must be the frustrating-dumbfoundedness she might feel.
But hers is a far bigger battle — it’s a terrestrial one. Others: go have your innocent, heavenly fairy tales. And I’ll endeavor to leave you to them.
You see, Lierre may likely still hold the values she held as a vegan. She would — and I’m guessing — just love a cuddly world where every living organism — even down to microbes — didn’t have to die to support the chain that is life: from soil to crawlies, to furies, to skins, to vicious claws, to guns & steel, to edifice…to tops of Pacific Redwoods (provided humans could exist on the scraps).
And I wouldn’t fault her for it.
Everyone gets to go to hell in their own go-cart.
That’s my friend Billy, with a uniquely existential tinge on an ethical principle: you don’t get to decide or dictate other’s values; they do. The existentially implied part is that they’ll more often than not, value shit. Take a lookie, see.
That’s just modern conditioning. …Mushrooms.
I make it a practice not to shit on other people’s values, under two conditions:
- Those "values" don’t harm other people by their mere pursuance.
- And when otherwise, they don’t come in conflict with mine.
Spending a great deal of time on things Internet as I’ve done for many-a-year, number 2 is the far more frequent occurrence. Summary: when I tell someone to: "lighten up (then go fuck themselves all day long)" it’s not like putting a gun to their heads, or, even like voting, so that other people can put a gun to their heads.
To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.
— Ayn Rand (that’s from the whole Lexicon on her take on man, qua animal)
See?
Well, we’ll see.
What I deeply admire in Lierre’s writing is that she so struggles with her own values, but honestly so, laboriously, exhaustively laying out why — not the values themselves — but that the principles to her personal action she was smart enough to derive therefrom as a teenager, were infantile. Unworkable. Totally ignorant of a wholesome reality. Fantasy. Hopeful. Simply unreal. The values can stay — kinda like a cuddly whatever you might cherish but isn’t real. Differentiate. Integrate, then conceptualize knowledge and information
She found out that she had to choose whether to survive and flourish, or deteriorate, as a human animal. Guess what: in spite of 10,000 years of all-guns-to-bear to the contrary, you are an animal and to deny the fact is to your detriment.
It used to be easy; we didn’t posses the knowledge to synthesize "food." Now we do. How dumb. Even the veggies are falling prey to the marketing whizzes, and are even fooling Mackey (just look at the tor-fuck-you section in your local WF).
She implicates the world of vegetarians, and she does a masterful job.
Man is the only animal that can sink below his own nature. — Ayn Rand
Do cows eat fish? Do fish eat cows?
Cows eat grass, fish eat stuff in the water — and bugs — …everything eats bugs — there are no "vegetarians."
Well, I could go on. But, first, let me quote one more thing from the four pages I’ll give you the link to.
Then the diner bell rang, a gong that sang like gold across the mountainside. It was beautiful there, the hills the green of deep summer, gentled with sun. Fifty people lined up outside the dining hall, hungry. What we ate was bread and lettuce.
We repeated this meal six times over the next forty-eight hours.
Here’s the link. Read it from the images on page 67, up to the images at the end of page 70. She describes her 3-day visit to a vegan "farm" in upstate New York.
The next morning: Well, reading it now…that was a bit strong, eh? Well, no apologies — you always get the real me, and my ideas and passion ebb & flow like everyone, I guess. So, you get to decide whether it’s a fault or a virtue that I pretty much just lay it all out there. Onward.
After I've read some of the stuff that vegans/vegetarians have done– I have to say that it's like reading something out of pure fantasy.
The lucky ones have enough problems to make themselves question what they are doing– and fight for a solution! (HINT HINT– eat animal products, and wow, you don't have to kill the animal yourself!)
I really liked the first three chapters of Lierre's book, but the fourth really rocked me back on my heels. You can see my four star (of five) review at amazon (amazon.com/Vegetarian-Myth-Food-Just…)
I did particularly enjoy her observations about what chickens eat. Which is: anything they can. Literally. Whatever it is, if it can't kill a chicken, there's a good chance that the chicken will try to kill and eat it.
Good review. Haven't got to that last chapter yet, but suspect I'll
have a similar take.
—
Richard Nikoley
https://freetheanimal.com
– Sent from my iPhone
Amazon is out of her book at the moment, mine won't be shipped until September 10th – 18th sometime. Damn.
I know three vegetarian families on the block. One of them is vegan. The Vegan family has a toddler. He is always having intestinal issues. He's already been weened off the breast and his parents say his system doesn't “tolerate” milk (they haven't told me in what way). So he drinks soy milk. I feel so bad for the little guy. He's got no choice in the matter. I wish I could intervene, but I try to adhere to similar principles as you. The father did recently become a facebook friend of mine, so I hope he stumbles (wink) upon your blogs, or Mark Sisson's, or better yet, both. I was at a soiree at their house last Saturday with some of the neighbors and they were munching on crackers topped with soy cheese. Oh a scream wanted to escape my lips, but I've shied away from these types of confrontations. I do describe my lifestyle change (i.e., paleo/primal) with these folk every chance I get, and how it transformed my life and the reasons behind it, etc. These folk listen and nod their heads, but at the end of the day they haven't opened their minds to it. I brought celery sticks and coconut butter dip as my paleo contribution to the meal. They really liked it. I left the jar of coconut butter with them. Hopefully it will catch on. I did mention to them that their son might do well on coconut milk instead of soy (trying to nudge every chance I get). I feel so bad for the little toddler. He's going to grow up and have intestinal (and likely other) problems probably for all of his life and he'll probably think its just the way he is. Growl.
LOL@ “Sweet Fairy Tail”. Love it. As a raised Catholic-turned-Atheist, I actually did laugh out loud at that one.
I always look forward to your blog, Richard; initially, I thought it was just another guy jumping on the Paleo bandwagon. But your insight and writing makes it much, much deeper than that.
I picked up The 10,000 Year Explosion on your recommendation, and while I generally leave vegetarians to their own ignorance, I'll more than likely pick up The Vegetarian Myth.
Thanks again for the great posting and website.
Mike:
I really appreciate that acknowledgement.
I have tried hard to offer writing here that is different. Yep, lots
of Paleo bloggers, now. Most will eventually give it up, and frankly,
I may too some day.
In the meantime, I'll continue to try and produce material that's
unique enough to merit my readers' continued attention.
Thanks again.
—
Richard Nikoley
https://freetheanimal.com
– Sent from my iPhone
I hope you won't be giving up blogging any time soon as your journey has been tremendously motivating and your guidance has been invaluable. Oh, and your style is most definitely unique; refreshingly frank and frankly refreshing :o)
Really appreciate all the time and effort that goes in to sharing your strategies and successes.
“…and we soaked up animal protein and fat like parched ground in the rain.”
Fantastic writing. Looking forward to reading the whole book.
Having been through something very similar to Keith's experience with veganism, I would add that vegans have plenty of “experts” with deceptively impressive credentials (M.D.s, Ph.D.s) telling them not only that their diet is doable, but that it is the ideal for health. And the thrust of allopathic nutrition also seems to support them (anti-fat, anti-cholesterol, anti-red meat). So if you are in it, it can be very hard to break out (accept meat as healthy) because it looks like not only vegan gurus but all prominent nutritional gurus and mainstream media (mis)information (meat causes colon cancer, vegetarians live longer, cholesterol is poison, etc.) point in the direction of veganism. Yes the vegan world view is fantasy, but so is the mainstream nutritional perspective, which essentially supports veganism.
As a teacher of nutrition, I frequently encounter “conventional” eaters who express surprise when I show them the evidence of harmful effects of vegetarian and vegan diets on health. These people aren't vegans, but they have gotten enough misinformation that they already believe that veganism must be the ideal diet, even though they don't personally do it. What I'm getting at is that vegans are like canaries in the coal mine, they often are the people who took our cultural messages seriously and tried sincerely to apply them to an extent few others will consider.
Right on, Don.
It's what bugs me the most, and really the only reason I engage in the
battle. It's that underlying implication (or, explication) that
vegetarian or veganism is the ultimate in health…but because we are
sinners and guilty by nature, most of us just don't have the inner
grace to do it.
And, so, you end up with a bunch of high priests of perfection (ring a
bell?), a bunch of struggling sinners, and the lost.
I agree with you. Its the old Christian world view played out in the nutrition realm. It got started with John Harvey Kellogg, M.D., a Seventh Day Adventist vegetarian. He created all the fairy tales about meat damaging this and that.
“No quarter for those who would argue that you continue to evade…uh, reality”.
Richard, i'm a bit more charitable when dealing with idealistic teenagers. it's a weakness, i guess. cute li'l hippies (heh). it's the overgrown ones that make my upper lip curl.
…but when someone tells me what i should and should not be eating, and has in his head the glib, unthinking notion that there should be an implemented law, he will be staring down the barrel of my metaphorical unregistered firearm.
I make it a habit of having loaded weapons within 5 seconds reach,
wherever I happen to be in my homes.
I always love telling my leftie guests that, but only if the subject
comes up.
Also a California gun owner? More and more interesting… Glad I found your blog Richard. Are you on calguns.net by any chance?
Ross:
Grew up with guns all over the place, and consequently have never had fear of them being around, being loaded. That said, I'm not at all a “gun nut,” which is to say I'm not really big on going to the range & such. When I was a kid and we'd go on a hunting trip, the whole outdoors was my shooting range, and I carried a .22 revolver on my hip from the time I was 10 or so.
Neither am I into gun-rights activism, but I did bookmark that site.
You might find this interesting:
freetheanimal.com/2007/04/a_friday_after…
Roos:
Grew up with guns all over the place, and consequently have never had
fear of them being around, being loaded. That said, I'm not at all a
“gun nut,” which is to say I'm not really big on going to the range &
such. When I was a kid and we'd go on a hunting trip, the whole
outdoors was my shooting range, and I carried a .22 revolver on my hip
from the time I was 10 or so.
Neither am I into gun-rights activism, but I did bookmark that site.
You might find this interesting:
freetheanimal.com/2007/04/a_friday_after…
I'm surprised – it seems the whole book is available to read through Google. Looks like an interesting read, especially after “The China Study.”
It appears that while most of the book is on Google, some sections are
not.
—
Richard Nikoley
https://freetheanimal.com
– Sent from my iPhone
“And, so, you end up with a bunch of high priests of perfection (ring a
bell?), a bunch of struggling sinners, and the lost.”
LOL
Not sure if this is indicative of anything at all, but I own a large parrot…blue-fronted Amazon…and in spite of all the pellets, seeds, fruit, grains and vegetables we are supposed to feed her, the thing she goes bananas for is my paleo meatloaf, scrambled eggs, turkey breast, chicken breast, etc. The more fat and protein the better.
After doing a little research, come to realize these critters eat lots of non-veg matter in the wild. I try to balance things, with the assumption that her metabolism is probably different from a human's, but still interesting that this is what her body is craving in addition to the other parts of her diet.
Quoting from memory,but in the book she says: “Chickens will eat anything and everything, including each other.” She also says: “Chickens don't morn their dead, they eat them.”
It's true. We raised chickens and they are definitely cannibalistic. I imagine it applies widely to birds of all sorts.
Hi Richard,
Thanks so much for profiling Keith's book. Being a decade long vegetarian I'm not really sure how I came upon your site but I have found myself visiting very regularly this past year. Long story short, I have recently purchased 17 pastured chickens, a pastured turkey and half of a pastured pig(poor fellow has a lot of trouble balancing on just two legs.) all locally raised and purchased directly from the farmers. I try to be open minded and while vegetarianism seemed the right thing to do 10 years ago…feed the world's hungry by giving the grain we're feeding cows(didn't know then cows shouldn't eat grain) to people..blah blah blah…I fell for that and a lot of the other themes. Keith's book really fits with the way I feel about things now. Anyway just wanted to say thanks for all your time and effort you put into this blog.
ps. I'm Toronto born and raised so like you…..BIG Rush fan!!
canadiankelly, I would be so grateful to know where you are finding pastured chickens, turkey and pigs in the GTA.
(and I'm appreciating the irony of a vegetarian having better success at hunting and gathering than a paleo. LOL.)
Hi Pebbles,
I no longer live in the GTA and am now living just outside of Orillia. I have found several places using the following website; http://www.simcoecountyfarmfresh.ca as well as eatwild.com/products/canada.html#ON
LOL. I used to live just south of Orillia, many years ago. Anyway, thanks kindly for the links; I knew of the eatwild site but the Simcoe County Farm Fresh looks like a great resource. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
As an atheist lacto-ovo vegetarian, I found your comments pretty interesting. All I'll say is, to each his own. My doctor told me that the head of the nutrition department at his med school was a 6'8″ tall vegan who had several triathlons under his belt. Granted, he knew what to eat, when to eat it, and how to cook it. Most people don't. I do know that being vegan or vegetarian can lead to food sensitivities. A random conversation with a restaurant cook taught me that. He had given up grain and dairy and when he started eating (local organic) meat, those food “allergies” disappeared. It's complicated stuff. But don't politicize the stomachs of others. People have to figure these things out for themselves. A hard-headed guy like you should respect that.
Fair enough, man.
Ayn Rand is a piece of shit.
equating anything “paleo” with that retard is a joke.
how you havent stumbled on Paul Shepard yet is epic fail.
what's wrong with Ayn Rand?
is it the fact that she upheld the sovereignty of the person over the tribe, the right of a person to own property and speak freely over the whims of the tribe to suppress such?
…is it that she understood a natural tendency within ourselves to want to progress technologically so we don't have to live like hunter-gatherers? do you think you would enjoy digging in the dirt for tubers, being mauled by angry ruminants, and dying from easily cured infections, famine and trauma?
…or maybe it's the fact that she had contempt for primitives (read: “snotnosed punks”) who feel they have an entitlement to the fruits others' labour.
Shepard was a naive utopianist, and i'll bet you have tattoos, more than one piercing, a “stand out” hairstyle, and seethe with anger and frustration at the success of others and your own mediocrity.
…epic fail.
Paul Shephard doesn't interest me.
I'm about the individual living in accordance — individually, as best he or she can — within whatever modern or primitive framework in which they find themselves.
I'm not about changing society.
I quote Rand, sometimes, because she's one of few writers out there to acknowledge that we are individuals who get to choose and pursue their own values, and not as some cog of some tribe, somewhere, with values dictated by some authority or some undefined, inexplicable call to culture, tradition, custom.
I've no burning desire to “save the world,” i.e., to cram my values down everyone's throats because “I'm the enlightened one.” I simply offer a set of values that some — not all, not even close — might find desirable and beneficial to implement in terms of diet, exercise, fitness. And, to some extent, there's a “worldview” that _can_ go along with it, but is ultimately not imperative to achieve success.