Keep Eating the Sugar, Vegans

Rather than the post I had planned for this morning of last night's stupendous meal, I have something else to put up. The meal was grilled filets and instead of the typical red wine reduction I do, I toasted garlic in butter, strained, then browned the butter and finished it off with fresh lime juice. For the veggies, I tossed chopped asparagus and yellow squash in a wok with butter, then roasted it on a cookie sheet in the oven. But then when I went to download the photos I found that my SD card wasn't in the camera and I hadn't noticed it. Damn. Well, I guess I'll just have to repeat it, soon. Since filets are relatively lean the browned butter really goes wonderfully.

...The last few days have seen the vegan menace invade Dr. Mike Eades' place. The comments begin on September 28 on this post, a review of The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. It's your typical dreg. "Dozens of studies proving meat causes cancer," without citing a single one. Then when it's pointed out that associations prove nothing and that there are plenty of observational studies showing the exact opposite, then the objection is that you can't do controlled studies on humans, and so on, countering each objection with what amounts to shifting the burden of proof and demanding someone attempt the impossible, that meat doesn't cause cancer, i.e., proving a negative. It's all very reminiscent of Carl Sagan's Fire-Breathing Garage Dragon.

It's so funny, the ferocity with which the vegans drop all evolutionary context to implicate a food we've been eating -- had to eat to evolve big brains combined with small guts (see Kleiber's Law) -- for eons and never mention a relatively new food and its possible role in cancer. By new, I'm talking refined, processed, concentrated.

So here's the comment I just dropped at Mike's place.

I wonder when I'm going to begin seeing vegetarians and vegans -- especially the junk food eating kind -- start blasting sugar's association with cancer cell growth with even a fraction of the intensity they shower on meat.

"Potential Role of Sugar Transporters in Cancer and Their Relationship with Anticancer Therapy"

"Growth of human gastric cancer cells in nude mice is delayed by a ketogenic diet supplemented with omega-3 fatty acids and medium-chain triglycerides"

"Cancer's Sweet Tooth"

"Can a High-Fat Diet Beat Cancer?"

"Cancer & Ketosis"

"Does sugar feed cancer?"

"During the last 10 years I have worked with more than 500 cancer patients as director of nutrition for Cancer Treatment Centers of America in Tulsa, Okla. It puzzles me why the simple concept "sugar feeds cancer" can be so dramatically overlooked as part of a comprehensive cancer treatment plan."

~~~

Uh, no sugar in meat or animal fats...

In other news, it was Campbell himself, way back when who showed in controlled studies that "protein deficiency" (HIS term, at the time) causes all sorts of problems (he was using casein, an animal source) and most of all, that:

"The China Study's Best-Kept Secret — Protein Protects Against Cancer Initiation"

I'm not going to hold my breath.

Comments

  1. browned butter goes well with ANYTHING…i am sick of hearing people say i ‘cant give up ____” like really, there’s problem number one- addiction.

    not to say i cant give up beef liver lol because it is my favorite food!

  2. I scanned through the comments at Eades site, and I noticed somebody claiming that humans could not eat raw meat without some sort of processing. It made me remember a scene from an episode of “No Reservations” (a food/travel show) where an Inuit family lays out newspaper in their kitchen and eats a seal raw as they butcher it. I cannot fully access Youtube from my work computer, but I think this is the scene:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGVdYiM5IXw

    I saw it on a “best of” type episode. Anthony Bourdain said that originally that whoever was in control decided not to show this scene in the US version of the show.

    • When I was younger and in a Punk band we were low on funds but had some ground beef in our cooler. We were in a cheap motel without a kitchen and no one brought a hot plate. Now it was gross, but I ate two handfuls of that ground beef raw and cold and it did not come back up. I also did not get sick from it, though looking back and knowing how factory farming works I really dodged a bullet there. So if I could eat that raw and digest it I could probably take a bite out of a fresh cow and be fine as well. I also remember an old episode of Road Rules where they had to do a challenge by partaking in an African ritual in which they had to eat raw goat. They said it was weird and the raw texture was gross but they ate it and were fine. So yeah, anyone who would say we can’t eat raw meat hasn’t even TRIED to find proof. And those are bad examples because there’s plenty of scientific evidence.

  3. The thing I never get with the vegans is the Spanish Inquisition style attack they bring on people that just want to eat some meat and do the thing that actually makes them feel happy and healthy.
    Also, are they really all just failed college artists who sit around in their lofts all day eating salads and reading anti-meat literature? Because that’s what they always sound like to me. I also like to picture vegans with silly berets and cigarettes. But they would probably smoke some kind of “Air Friendly” cigarette, in the same way that they seem to believe that Agriculture doesn’t have negative effects on the Earth. I did a vegetarian style diet for some time and just got “skinny fat” from it. Oh well, if they don’t want the meat it just leaves more for me!

    • The Dude says:

      Tom Naughton has a great article about the fanatical vegan:
      http://www.tomnaughton.com/?p=558 (I’m guessing it’s cool to post Naughton links/quotes on here)

      “Fanatical movements attract a particular personality type. They are typically dissatisfied with their own lives and have low self-esteem. (Can you say “prone to rage”?) Fanaticism appeals to them because it provides a sense of identity, the ego-boost of idealism, and the psychological comfort of certainty — thus relieving them of the need to resolve life’s doubts, contradictions, and moral ambiguities for themselves.”

      Q. How can you find the vegan at a dinner party?
      A. Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.

      • Absolutely, Tom Naughton along with a few others have free reign around here.

      • Dave, RN says:

        But what came first, the low self esteem and depression or the vegan diet? The lack of fat is strongly associated with depression…
        I think it’s a right brained thing. You’ll find a lot more artists of various ilk (actors etc) as vegitarians than others. And artistic people are typically (not always, but typically) right brained, idealitic, emotional types. Logic lives in the left side of the brain.

      • One again I’ll say, it’s not the “diet” but the people doing it. There are all types of vegans. You have those low-cal lettuce vegans who are gaunt and scrawny, high fat vegans (most of the hardcore hippy IMO), and the high-fruit vegans. I follow the high fruit style. I’m not a vegan, but I eat only plants like one.

        Veganism is basically a religion:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#History

        My diet contains usually less than 5% fat these days (roughly 30g). Funny thing is, my mood has never been better.

        I’d put my money on the fact that more often the lack of fat probably = the lack of adequate calories = pissed off brain/body ;)

      • Sarah Madden says:

        But Grok, you’ve only been on this diet for a short time. I don’t doubt you feel fantastic, same as people who eat only muscle meat and water claim to do. But do you really think an all fruit diet could sustain a population for decades? Sustain a healthy pregnancy, sustain several generations?

        Usually you feel good in the short term from what you don’t eat but in the long run it’s usually about what you do eat. There’s a reason that there’s not one single population of ‘humans in the wild’ that are vegan.

      • Muscle meat diet sucks. Done that too.

        As for the rest of your comment… are you replying to the correct comment? What does any of your comment have anything to do with anything I said above?

        You clearly haven’t followed me online.

      • Sarah Madden says:

        Apologies, I read your comments down further.

        So is this a short term thing for you? I have IBS so I’m pretty sure an all fruit diet would cause me to explode!

      • Accepted :)

        It’s a “however long it goes until I have problems” thing I think. As of now, I’ve only had benefits. Lots of them It’s started out as a 4 week thing originally I think, and has just passed 6 months. I’m moving to Hawaii for a couple years, so it might last that long, since plants actually grow there ;)

        If you have IBS, you’d be hard pressed to find a diet easier on digestion. If you watch my videos, I thought the same. The key is eating RIPE fruit. Fruit gets blamed, because practically no one in western society eats ripe fruit. The actual ripe stuff gets thrown away as “Over-ripe.”

        FYI, not trying to convert anyone. Just clarifying misinformation or assumptions.

      • I ate an enormous, perfectly grilled ribeye tonight, every morsel, includimg the fat, dipped in drawn butter.

        A bit of lemon for zest.

        Enjoy that chew chew chew, Grok, and you do know I wish you well. And, we’ll never be afraid of your results, around here.

      • I’m going to be very tempted to do some spear fishing (and possibly boar hunting) in Hawaii, so I might have a few epics fails ;) LOL

        Been slightly board on the fruit diet lately. Good thing it’s so satiating. The variety sucks around here. Greasy Mexican food has been my evil temptress lately. It’s neither raw, paleo, or gluten free. Filled with vegetable oils & GMO crops. Surely I’d be dead after just one bite!

      • Sarah Madden says:

        Best of luck to you! I’m happy enough with paleo for the time being. Obsess about meat if I’m deprived of it for too long! Interesting about the ripe fruit thing. Oranges are my particular bete noir, seriously, no one can be in the room with me afterwards ;) To each their own I guess!

  4. Nathaniel says:

    As frustrating as it is, we have to recognize that veganism is closer to a fundamentalist religion than it is to a scientific belief system and they view science only as a means to an end, meaning that it is only relevant when they can twist it to support their preconceived world-view.

  5. “…had to eat to evolve big brains combined with small guys “… think you meant small “guts”…

  6. Hi,

    Something that often confuses me about some of the more “religious” type vegans. Are they only against eating something that they consider “cute” (or has a face) or are they concerned with “life.” Maybe vegans pick and choose who gets to live and who gets to die. I can understand people being opposed to poor living conditions or treatment of animals for food, but food for survival? Come on now. Everything kills to survive. Even when you drink a glass of water you are killing huge amounts of living organisms. Do vegans fly on airliners to go on vacation? Not so worried about killing birds via jet engine I guess. How about those who try to be religious or peaceful Christ like beings. I guess sacrificial lambs scattered throughout the bible is OK huh? Nature has created a system where survival and balance relies on something living off of something else.
    What about fruits and vegetables. I guess to vegans killing bugs (pesticides) is ok. I suppose bugs aren’t cute enough. How about what gets killed through farming the land and prepping it for growing crops. Talk about a killing spree. You can’t fight nature.

    • Exactly, it’s merely a choice that allows vegans to close their eye’s to the things that really bother them. I’m sure there were ancestors in the past that felt bad about seeing “cute” animals get killed but that was their problem and not the rest of the worlds. If they feel bad about an animal having to be killed they should actually talk to the people that do it right, like Joel Salatin and get a good understanding of the details. Animals are here to eat. Some make good companions. Once again, if the vegans don’t like it than that’s their problem. Not mine or anyone else’s.

  7. Dave, RN says:

    I may have mentioned before…
    A frieds of my sons dad is a strict, longtime vegitarian. And he’s one of the “good ones”: no junk food. Just lots of steamed veggies and grains. He had a heart attack 2 months ago and now he’s on Lipitor because his trigs were 450. His daughter, also a veg, is a nursing student. She showed me his labs (with his permission of course). Pretty awful. I tried to tell her that he needed to stop eating grains and eat fat and protein to get the trigs down and improve his cholesterol profile. All she really wanted was to know if there were some magic vitamin or something that he could take to help him. Other than CQ10 that the statin is robbing from him, I told her nothing would help him (and her) other than a diet change. Was it a wake up call? No. Still vegitarians. And she eats nothing but sugar. My 19 yearold son keeps telling her “your gonna die!”
    Eating for ideology = Health Fail.

    • That is a damn scary story. Being a martyr only get’s you killed in the end. Literally.

    • anand srivastava says:

      There are some things that still can be done.
      They are vegetarians, not vegans, right.
      So get them to add more ghee, butter, milk, cheese, yogurt in their diet.
      Tell them to get rid of grains, and live on vegetables and potatoes.
      I guess if they don’t want to change the diet, nothing can be done.
      I am not sure if that Statin is a good idea.

  8. Dave, RN says:

    Oh, and thanks for the sugar/cancer links. I forwarded them to an aquantance that has a relative who really needs it. I hope they read and pay attention to them.

  9. Nathaniel says:

    Sad story, Dave. It really makes you wonder what kind of ideology encourages you to sacrifice your own health or to place the well-being of other species’ ahead of one’s own.

  10. I just reviewed 137 papers showing the link between cancer and sugar including treating cancer by eating very low carbs. All the biochemists know about the link, why don’t the doctors, and nutritionists know?

  11. The vegetarians’ claims are rather like saying air causes cancer and we should all start breathing water, even though that’s not what our lungs have been doing for millennia. It’s rather improbable (understatement) that something we’ve eaten for so long is a major cause of fatal disease.

  12. Vegans, I have learned, are always privileged white people who have never known anything resembling a hardship in their lives. I guarantee that if you go into an urban housing project or Appalachia or an Indian (oops, sorry, Native American) reservation you will not find one person who is vegan by choice.

    • gallier2 says:

      That’s exactly what I wanted to express with my comment last day.

      http://freetheanimal.com/2010/09/the-vegan-menace-much-reflection.html#comment-43798

      Veganism is a rich mans problem, if you’re poor and hungry you have no problems eating roadkill or bush-meat (I shoud one day publish pictures I made in Gabon, would be quite funny to see the vegan folks squirm).

    • True… but anymore, paleo is a rich peoples diet too. Basically anything that’s realfood based is going to cost you (if you have to buy it).

      The machine we live in likes it this way ;)

      • It depends on what you mean by “rich” and by “paleo”.

        For example, if you take Kurt’s approach of focusing on cutting out wheat, fructose and linoleic acid, then it would really not be any more expensive.

        It could actually be fairly inexpensive. Eggs and butter are fairly cheap, and if you are willing to stretch the orthodoxy a little more, then potatoes, rice, and even beans (gasp?) could be used as filler.

      • “if you are willing to stretch the orthodoxy a little more, then potatoes, rice, and even beans”

        These these are perfectly kosher for a vegan diet (often staples), so the vegan diet would win the price war ;) Just sayin….

      • I don’t know. I just went to your website and watched the video. $15-$50 on produce per day…Eggs and butter FTW!

      • I don’t eat those things, and I eat a lot ;)

        If I hadn’t killed my own meat being paleo, I would have been in the poor house with my consumption. I always went through at least 5 dozen eggs a week, and decent butter isn’t cheap either. Plus my huge fish oil bill.

        Just trying to make a point that none of them are cheap. I’m a huge advocate for the paleo diet. All you have to do is click around on my site for a few seconds to see I’m not a “vegan”. I just happen to be getting better results as a vegan right now, so why not? I’d be a dumbass to quit.

      • I ate paleo living under the USDA’s poverty level last year. I’m happy I’m not anymore though :)

        Hunting provides rural people the opportunity to eat this way. It’s sad when I see my poor rural relatives chose to buy Fritos rather than eat then abundance of deer and apples outside.

      • What’s even sadder is when those hunting trips are powered by Frito & Butterhorns, then after the animal is down, the only thing they’re excited about is the “horns.”

        My neighbor shot one of the bear yesterday that was on my property the night before. I was sitting on the porch with my computer as he emerged from the woods pulling it. I shook his hand in congratulations. He was excited to “get it home and see what this thing tastes like.” The smell of blood had me salivating. No Vegan will ever convince me that meat is “not a natural part of our diet.”

  13. freeagent says:

    On the raw meats issue, a friend here in Australia had a Grandfather recently deceased who took great delight in eating raw a portion of the liver of a beast (Cattle, grass fed) when it was freshly killed. The rest of the animal was treated and stored in a variety of ways. Meat was his predominate food. This man also fought in WW2 where as a commando he led indigenous New Guineans in fighting the sons of Japan, surviving on their traditional jungle foods such as bats and the like. As the owner manager of a 38000 acre property the Grandfather worked hard and lived in good health independently into his 90’s. He did drink neat scotch and smoked very moderately

    The property has since been passed onto to his son, a fine man, non smoker and community leader in his late sixties. The son with the conveniences of good roads, large modern freezers and electrical power travels or has delivered hundreds of kilometres the staples they have come to rely on such as wheat products and processed foods. He recently had a triple bypass surgery and his doctors advised him to eat the SAD way and not to eat red meat.

    My advice is to eat like Grand Dad did. I do not recommend the smoking only highlighting my belief that SAD food eating is probably as great a killer.

    • “My advice is to eat like Grand Dad did. I do not recommend the smoking only highlighting my belief that SAD food eating is probably as great a killer.”

      I firmly believe that in the fullness of time, tobacco will become a mere trigger that acts upon the chronic inflammation associated with SAD eating. Too many native peeps grow and smoke their own tobacco to no apparent ill effects.

  14. Nathaniel says:

    Interesting claim, Trish. I tend to agree and often wonder what a typical vegan would do if he were abandoned in the wild, or if he was one of the few survivors in a post-apocalyptic world. Would those ethical beliefs still hold strong? Or would a wild rabbit start to look like food when the going gets tough? If he found a package of sausages, would it still seem unethical to eat them?

    Veganism seems to me like an “ivory tower” type of philosophy. It is very much based on this fantasy of a peaceful “garden of Eden” with unlimited fruit growing on trees year-round. Unfortunately, that is nothing more than a fantasy.

    • Vegan Warrior/Stud says:

      Respectfully, until we have some sort of nuclear holocaust or something, this “post-apocalyptic world” you speak of sounds like nothing more than a fantasy, in the same way you accuse vegans of engaging in fantasy.

      And I do realize that you’re probably not attempting to smear all vegans with a broad brush.

      • Nathaniel says:

        Respectfully, you’re kind of missing the point. It is a hypothetical. Surely you understand the difference between a hypothetical situation and a fantasy world.

  15. To me the worst of the worst militant vegan site is 30 bananas a day.

    http://www.30bananasaday.com/

    It was almost hilarious when they went crazy on a raw food vegan model (http://rawmodelcom.blogspot.com/) who decided to include kefir in his raw food diet. By their ramblings about this dude, you would have thought he molested a child or something. And they want to recruit people to their side?

    The arguments make no sense and then add in a hefty dose of bad attitude… no wonder people think they are nuts.

  16. Nathaniel says:

    30 Bananas a Day are the epitome of a dietary cult. No exaggeration. Denise Minger is well acquainted with them and has been an object of their scorn in the past, and Dr. Dave Dixon at the excellent Spark of Reason blog (http://sparkofreason.blogspot.com/) has engaged in a fairly one-sided debate with their leader, “durianrider.”

    30 Bananas a Day is notorious for censorship and for banning anyone who expresses any doubt as to the superiority of the raw vegan diet. They are the literal definition of a cult.

    • Vegan Warrior/Stud says:

      Can’t disagree, at least on my quick perusal of that site. I saw some guy bring up eating chia seeds and you would have thought he was talking about molesting a child. They basically ran the guy off.

      I’m a happy and healthy vegan and all, but my mind is open and I don’t really care to proselytize. I just might be really, really wrong.

  17. I posted this in another thread as part of a reply in the middle so I’m not sure you saw it Richard and confirmation bias and cognitive rigidity applies equally to this so:

    Cognitive rigidity is what USAF Colonel John Boyd would have called a fixed or locked orientation. It occurs to me that if you have not read Boyd the Fighter Pilot who changed the Art of War, you should, because I think you’d get a tremendous kick out of it. Boyd was quite a character and the book is not only informative, but highly entertaining.

    Not to give anything away but the FIRST time they court-martialed him is especially entertaining, when it was all said an done, the general who court-martialed him recommended Boyd for early promotion.

    A Boyd expert said that the Wikipedia entry on Boyd is pretty good as is the entry on Boyd’s OODA loop, so that makes a reasonable starting place.

    • Yep, saw it and saved in my reading notes.

      • Good, I really do think you will enjoy it, Boyd was not afraid to speak his mind or to do what he thought was right. Some consider him to be the greatest military theoretician since Sun Tzu. It’s a reasonable claim.

        He reminds me of Patton, he might have liked the fight a little too much, and made some enemies he didn’t have to, but I think that without that aggressiveness, he would not have been who he was.

        Reminds me of you too and that’s a good thing. My personal style is different, but I think at the end of the day an individual has to be able to live with what they have done or haven’t done. The be true to thine own self thing works except in extreme cases like Hitler, Mao, etc.

        On the lighter side, my did my reply above – Male bats trade brains for sex – give you a new perspective on the expensive tissue hypothesis?

  18. Vegan Warrior/Stud says:

    “…tobacco will become a mere trigger that acts upon the chronic inflammation associated with SAD eating…”

    I’ve always felt that something like that is going to turn out to be the case, though not that exactly. Guys like my old man, who eats the SAD and started smoking in the 50s yet seemingly have no ill side-effects, seem to argue that there’s something more to the equation.

  19. People of North Russian know that eating raw food –

    Red Meat and Colorectal Cancer Epidemiology – http://www.canibaisereis.com/2010/09/13/epidemiologia-das-carnes-vermelhas-e-processadas-e-cancro-do-colon/

  20. Hey Richard–

    Your comment is no longer in moderation. I’ve been working hard to get all comments up in a timely manner, something I haven’t always done.

    Thanks for posting this one – it has many nice references all in one place.

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