Menace to Society: North Carolina Board of Dietetics/Nutrition (NCBDN)

Today I have a story for you about heroes vs. villains...about the innocent vs. the guilty, the benevolent vs. the parasite, and the honest vs. the automatic liar. In the end, it's really a story about evil, corruption, and force. But this is the Court of the Internet, so you get to judge for yourselves.

Back in 2009 I got an email from Steve Cooksey. He relayed his story to me, which I relayed in this post. I'll give an excerpt.

Long story short, I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance with a BG reading of 700+ and an A1C that was literally "too high to read". Three days later I was discharged home as a Diabetic and while the doctors were not sure, I was told that I was likely a Type 1 and that I would be on insulin and medications for the rest of my life.

While still in the hospital, I was given an ADA Food Pyramid by the "hospital nutritionist" and upon inquiry was informed to "eat the food groups" but stay below 2200 calories. This seemed odd to me but at the time, I was a mental wreck -- having been given several body blows -- so I took the advice and ordered my meals from the hospital menus. To be honest...they looked a hell-u-va-lot like what I ate ordinarily....

So, I go home and start researching what to do. I was determined to do ALL I could to stop taking insulin and medications. I'd seen too many relatives go down this road...and quite frankly...I did not like the destination nor the ride to get there.

A couple days later after discharge, a home health nurse came by -- I also quizzed her about my diet -- SHE HANDED ME ANOTHER ADA Food Pyramid and told me to "eat the food groups".

A couple of days later my doctor told me to check out the Low Glycemic Index to see if that would help...it did and it started me on a journey that lead me to Mark Sisson's website where I explored all things Primal.

Today, with the benefit of a great workout program and a Primal diet, I am 75 pounds lighter and I take -0- insulin and -0- medications. My latest blood work showed NO EVIDENCE OF DIABETES NOR OBESITY!

I have been insulin and medication free for about 6 months. Because I know how utterly confusing and hopeless life can be when diagnosed with diabetes, I have attempted to reach out to "spread the word" about Paleo / Primal eating and living. I often "befriend" people in social media groups and strike up a conversation.

Multiple times -- I'd say at least 4-5 times -- I have began a conversation with a "Certified Diabetes Educator". EVERY SINGLE TIME -- NO EXCEPTIONS -- they do not HAVE A CLUE when it comes to Paleo / Primal eating. Honestly...I find this disgusting. Especially when I have to hear (or read) how they are required to go to X number of hours of recertification classes and how they are trained on the latest...blah, blah, blah. ALL of this is bad enough, but here's the kicker...

THEY ATTEMPT TO CONVINCE ME TO STOP!!! ...And go back to eating grains, beans, rice, pasta etc. THE AUDACITY!!! EVEN AFTER they know that I have lost weight and kicked diabetes in the ass they try to get me back on the train...the train to hell.

WHY? Why would they do this?????

Why? Well, for starters, go re-read the first paragraph.

before after
Steve Cooksey Before & After

That's Steve "Before;" that is, when registered dietitians—licensed & regulated by the North Carolina Board of Dietetics/Nutrition (NCBDN)—were advising him to eat in such a way as to remain fat, diabetic and dependent upon them. After, is when Steve realized that if they were not actually, explicitly trying to kill him early, it was way too difficult to draw distinctions—so he simply took matters into his own hands.

Well, why wouldn't he? Let's examine the track record of the NCBDN, established in 1992.

Screen Shot 2012 01 31 at 12 36 12 PM
60% + of North Carolinians are Overweight or Obese
nc diabetes
1995-2010, Percent of NC Diabetics Who are Obese (~40% - 60% in that span)

Great job there, NCBDN! Keep up the "good work."

You know, given that level of demonstrated "competence," I can offhand think of a bunch of things the NCBDN ought not be entrusted with...fetching my mail, taking out the trash, clearing a stopped up toilet, pumping outhouses, cleaning up behind my dogs, and properly disposing of used tampons all come to mind...

And yet...yet, what they are being entrusted with is the health and dietary habits of a whole state, and in particular, those with serious medical conditions such as diabetes that require even more attention.

...And even as egregiously wrong as that is, morally, it doesn't stop there. Nope. They're not content to simply wallow in their own incompetence and let caveat emptor prevail. Nope, they actually, with a straight face, seek to stop those who actually do get real results. So now, let's continue on to make the case that this isn't simply mistaken ignorance, but evil of a sort that actually seeks to harm people, explicitly.

When Steve, through his own research and dedication, fixed his own problem, he sought to help others via his website, Diabetes-Warrior.net. Perfectly natural, benevolent, etc. And he's very effective, as you'll see if you read through the success stories so many have shared on his website. You'll find similar things in the comments to his posts. Now, contrast that with the record above.

Now let's drop the other shoe. This same den of incompetents launched an official "investigation" into Steve's private affairs—publishing his website for the benefit of anyone who wishes to read it—and they issued a "report" (PDF). Here's an update on the whole deal, along with an 8 minute interview Jimmy Moore was kind enough to get out there quickly.

So you can read through as much of the "report" as you like, but it all reads the same. It's all based on the same thing. Nowhere is there any indication of moral or conscious thought along the lines of: 'he helped himself marvelously and is helping others.' Or: 'wow, if more North Carolinians did this it would be a great thing for the obese and diabetic.' Or: 'maybe we can learn something from this guy.' Or even: 'we have discretion here, let's just close this case out.' Or even more: 'he does not appear to be hurting anyone.'

None of that. Just as your average German bloke in a foot soldier's uniform in the early 1940s, charged with loading men, women and children into boxcars—cognizant of a certain destination and fate—chose not to listen to the voice of his own conscience...(it was "legal"), so it is with the NCBDN, willing, in all their demonstrated incompetent glory, to shut someone down who's obviously helping people and not hurting a soul—unlike, obviously, the NCBDN is doing.

It's an upside-down world so perverse that the bigger the lie, the easier the sell. And look, it's not as though it ought to be all that difficult to expose those who might, somehow, someway, manage to do more harm to the average diabetic than the NCBDN already does. For instance, how tough would it be to catch someone advising diabetics to shoot rat poison in place of insulin? And even then, at least that offers the prospect of a quick death, rather than the slow & debilitating one the NCBDN offers with its "education" and "consultation."

There's not an ounce of morality or righteousness or honesty or heroism in the whole thing, that "report." It's just simply spouting laws.

"I'm just doing my job."

...And last but not least, let's just not forget how this rolls, eventually and to the very end. At the end of the line of the NCBDN's cordial admonishments, nice words and "helpful" guidance...somewhere, at some time or place down the road, if Steve doesn't buckle under, there's a gun.

There's always a gun and it ultimately always comes down to force.

Update: Oh, I forgot to take names.

  • Michelle Futrell, MS, RD, LDN – Chair, Public Health
  • Brenda Burgin Ross, MS, RD, LDN – Vice Chair, Clinical
  • Richard W. Holden, Sr. – Treasurer, Public Member
  • Kathleen Sodoma, RD, LDN – Secretary, Management
  • Christie Nicholson, MS, RD, LDN, Private Practice
  • Phyllis Hilliard, MPH, Public Member
  • Cathleen E. Ostrowski, MS, RD, LDN, Education

Comments

  1. The North Carolina Board of Dietetics/Nutrition can be contacted at ‘[email protected]’. Lets give Steve a hand ..

  2. C’mon, the freaking dietitians can’t even help themselves. My aunt is one of them. She’s overweight and has been diagnosed with prediabetes. Guess what she’s eating a lot of? You got it: healthy “whole” grains. And even desserts (although not as frequently as the rest of the population). Granted, she doesn’t drink soda and eats a lot of fish and vegies. But still, if I had prediabetes, I wouldn’t even tough fruit, not to mention grains/starches. She knows about low glycemic index/load but she doesn’t believe diabetes can be cured by diet. I had clashed with her a few times about my low carb paleo diet. She doesn’t even know there’s no such thing as essential carbohydrates and yet teaches me about the dangers of low glucose level (I don’t think she’s heard about the gluconeogenesis either).

    • And guess what? It was last week or before that Chris Masterjohn posted about lost research. We can make glucose not only from protein, but fat as well.

    • Natalie, the nutritional seminar I attended that started this scenario …. was a type 2 diabetic who was INSULIN DEPENDENT. Yes… she had burned out her panceas.

      Guess what? … she was teaching diabetics there to eat as she had eaten!!!

      She was teaching them to be an insulin dependent diabetic TOO.

      I could NOT sit on my hands while she taught that BS …and making statement such as…

      “Some people tell diabetics they can not eat certain foods…this is wrong. Diabetics can eat whatever they want.”

      NOW… this is the same High Carb, Grain based ‘diabetes diet’ that has HARMED and is HARMING MILLIONS!!!

      This pathetic excuse for a diabetic … is a Certified Diabetes Educator AND… the DIRECTOR of Diabetes Services at a local hospital.

      HOW MANY HAS SHE PERSONALLY HARMED???

      AND she has credentials … so I say FUCK THAT… let’s end the Monopoly of Nutritional Information that is bought and paid for by PepsiCO, Monsanto and Big Pharma.

      By eating a high carb, grain based meal pl

      • Todd Watson says:

        “Some people tell diabetics they can not eat certain foods…this is wrong. Diabetics can eat whatever they want.”

        That is tantamount to my father who has been smoking for over forty years and developed bladder cancer “there is no conclusive evidence smoking causes cancer”. Despite all of the studies that indicate 96% of bladder cancer in men is attributed to smoking. But, of course, he would be ignored because he smokes, had bladder cancer, and is a former sales manager. Thankfully. But, you know, back in the olden times, doctors shilled for Big Tobacky and said cigarettes were good for you. Some went so far as to say tobacco provided vital nutrients. *eye roll*

      • Todd Watson says:

        For the record, my life is suddenly changed due to my father’s erroneous thinking on smoking and cancer. I just moved in with him and my stepmother two weeks ago to help take care of him for a year. His oxygen machine has become a security blanket and his oxygen levels are constantly low. We had a sit down with him earlier and told him he is going to have to rely on it less and start moving around more. Hopefully he will. Otherwise, this is going to be a long, difficult year.

      • I have seen many ads of doctors smoking… promoting cigarettes.

        I have also seen many ads stating that sugar helps people lose weight, increases energy , etc etc.

        I feel your pain Todd, my mother passed from lung cancer and lost both grand mother’s from diabetes complications.

        … I wish you the best sir.

      • “Some people tell diabetics they can not eat certain foods…this is wrong. Diabetics can eat whatever they want.”

        Hmmm……
        Some people tell women they can not wear certain clothes, go to certain places, or drink…this is wrong. Rape Victims can wear/go/do whatever they want.

        Yeah, that sounds about right….
        (And to clarify, I’m talking about the full-on, violent, RAPE. Not the re-defined “I slept with him and regret it now” garbage.) We bear the CONSEQUENCES of our actions, like it or not.

  3. Kafka would be proud.

    -How do I get certified?
    -Well, we teach you that the ADAs advice is the ultimate authority. Then you are certified to give advice.
    -Once I am certified I am free to give advice?
    -Yes, but there’s a catch.
    -A catch?
    -You can only give advice that agrees with our advice, which is in line with the official ADA position.
    -Otherwise?
    -Otherwise you lose your certification, hence your legal status to give dietary advice, or write about diet or have a blog that mentions diet or your right not to be audited…
    -Audited? Is there a right not to be audited? Is that a threat?
    -Try us and find out. Any more questions, Joseph K?
    -What about the First Amendment?
    -….

    As a YouTube commenter on the Jimmy Moore interview pointed out, does Michelle Obama have a license to tell people how to eat?

    • Just prior, Sean, I added a link at the end of the German soldier bit, to the Wansee Conference.

      Somehow I had to let people know that The Final Solution was entirely legal.

      • And I mentioned that praising Hitler and denying the Holocaust is still legal in NC, whilst telling diabetics to skip the pizza isn’t, when I wrote about this bullshit this morning. I guess we both felt the need to go full Godwin on this.

      • And besides all the other ridiculousness, there’s the issue of the 1st A and freedom of the press. Why shouldn’t a blog like Steve’s be considered under the same freedom of the press rules as some J-school graduate writing health bullshit they’ve no clue about for CNN or whoever? Beyond the obvious fact that the J-school graduate will toe the party line? Oops, just answered my own question.

      • Granted, Sean, but it’s not my bag. I prefer the moral high ground. The problem with citing laws and constitutions is that you are then bound by them, and I am no fan of the US C, because I did not sign on and resent the fat that it somehow mysteriously binds my, no different from some mystical entity.

        But yea, I get it.

      • Yeah, I think we might have had a discussion about the Constitution before ;)

        I think we agree about negative rights, the right not to be fucked with, whether or not we agree if the Constitution helps or hinders those rights. Whether or not a blog such as yours or Steve’s ought enjoy the same negative rights as the traditional press is a big deal, and will most likely become an even bigger deal in the future. I seriously doubt they would be fucking with Steve if he was the health reporter for the NY Times who happened to live in NC. Blogs, or something like them are the future, so this really is a big deal in many ways.

      • We agree.

      • I’ve always thought Godwin’s “law” bullshit. There are distinctions to be made and a flippant reference is a flippant reference, Hitler or Dixie Chicks,

      • Thanks for dropping your link in there Sean, which everyone should read instanter, I sure enjoyed it.

      • Thanks Richard.

  4. As despicable and repulsive as this whole business is and as much as I loathe dietitians (I literally have not met a single one that wasn’t morbidly obese and/or diabetic), the Holocaust comparison is absurd, highly offensive and does a disservice to this incredibly important issue.

    • A Stew, then I am happy to provide you with a much needed education.

      What you will note, if you reexamine, is that I did not mention Hitler or his hierarchy of important underlings, I mentioned common foot soldiers who did the bidding,

      Do you, can you, understand, or are you so mired in conventional thought that you are unable to connect one principle to another?

      • There is nothing wrong with the comparison. As a German i laugh about the fear of inappropriate Godwins. Mostly they are right.
        The movie “the Reader” shows it perfectly. She was just doing her job (“legal”) and at the same time was hiding her own incompetence (illiteracy).
        People like dietitians who need all those licenses and power that comes along with it mostly have their own problems (being obese).
        Those people were our great-grandfathers and seemingly normal people. But still, they fucked up big time. We should not suppress history but learn from it and the 3rd Reich is one of the best and clearest period in history of evil philosophy with all its implications: psychology, politics, propoganda, ethics, epistemology and metaphysics. You’ll find it all in the books. Heck, Hitler wrote his own philosophy: Mein Kampf. What a disgrace it’s banned here.

        I relate Nazism to todays politicians and thinking all the time. The phrases are identical.
        If you embrace todays views about a “good society” and 100 % commit to this bullshit then you’ll ultimately end in a gulag (does this imply a Godwin as well? ) or a concentration camp.
        Every law is a gun to your head.
        Todays society ONLY works because some people at least choose to think for their own, break laws, invent stuff and don’t get sucked up in the system.

        Btw, the Nazis preached a healthy “Vollkorn mit Most” Diet (wholemeal with must) and the absence of meat, alcohol and tabacco.

        http://www.daenische-strasse.de/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/plakat-esst-vollkornbrot_kl.jpg
        http://www.kultur-fibel.de/Images/Bilder%20htm/Literatur/Blitzkrieg,-Vollkornbrot.jpg
        http://www.kultur-fibel.de/Images/Bilder%20htm/Literatur/Blitzkrieg,-Tabak-Kapital.jpg
        http://www.sackstark.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/nazi-rauchen-rassengift.png

        The Green Party, who is very popular over here, resembles the Nazis a lot in terms of diet, public health and the praise of mother nature. If you don’t obey, there is the police with guns you know. To “protect” you. They increased the tabacco and alcohol taxes big time, probably thinking about salt restriction by law and sat fat taxes and they’ve banned smoking in private (!!!) restaurants, bars and pubs.

        If you don’t like smoking, then don’t go in a restaurant or search for a non-smoking one (there were plenty) or open a new one! If you would suggest something like this, you’ll ironically get branded as a nazi. That’s what i call an inappropriate comparison.

      • Not sure where you are looking at dieticians… I have worked with many, and I can count on my fingers how many are actually obese…
        I find most of them are too thin. It’s like they know exactly what the food will do to them. That’s why I am not a dietician, despite loving the scientific aspects of the career. I like food too much to dispassionately view it as just a fuel source.
        Ah yes, and anarchy is the answer. Yes. Because that’s how we evolved… or… not. The. End.

      • damaged justice says:

        It’s certainly the answer for me. But I’d never force it on you.

      • “If you don’t like smoking, then don’t go in a restaurant or search for a non-smoking one…”
        Why should your right to smoke take away my right to breathe non-smoky air? Should we cater for majorities or minorities?

      • Stacy Nikoley says:

        I don’t think the question is smoking or non-smoking, it’s a question of property ownership, the rights of ownership. If I own a restaurant I should be able to make the rules. Nigel, you don’t have the “right” to do anything in a business I own. The only right you have is the choice to patronage or not.

      • I’m asking a general question about freedom. If one person’s freedom negates another person’s, who decides which freedom takes precedence?
        The strongest? The one with the biggest gun? The Government?

      • It it that tough to figure out? Is splitting hairs so necessary?

        No, because a respect for the property of others tends to work this stuff out. Their property, their rules, from the street cart vendor to the mega-corporation. Vote with your dollars and patronage.

        Or, declare everything “public”, gather in mobs, create massive beauracracies and have at it.

      • One notable thing…

        The right to do what? Smoke? Sure. But that’s not exactly a fundamental right, like free speech, freedom of religion, etc.

        The funny part is, I wonder for all the people who bitch about their “right” to smoke accept an addicts “right” to shoot up? Irony at its best.

        Sure, one is legal, the other is not… yet we are still talking about a drug…

        (This is from a former hard-core smoker…)

      • Stacy Nikoley says:

        I don’t smoke or “Shoot-Up” but yes I do accept the rights of the addict to shoot-up. But, I don’t support my tax dollars bailing them out when they fuck themselves up either. You play you pay, plain and simple.

      • Richard,

        I have not made the comparison publicly … but privately I have compared the mindless parroting of the low fat, high carb mantra with soldiers ‘just doing their job’.

        Even Certified Diabetes Educators will say this, “my hands are tied’.

        Which leads me to say this…

        If I can ‘figure this out’ … so can doctors, diabetes educators, nutritionists and dietitians unless they are…

        1) Intellectually lazy
        2) Willfully Ignorant
        3) Greedy
        3) All of the above.

  5. I understand perfectly what you wrote (and understand the specific comparison), so spare me the condescension. The last thing I need is “education” from an anarchist moron like yourself.

  6. Sorry, I have many questions and no answers . . .

    Does this law apply to people in other states? Suppose a North Carolina person asks a question on the PHD blog or Robb’s blog and those guys are so bold as to write a specific answer?

    What about writers of nutrition books? Isn’t Protein Power sold in North Carolina? Can they go after the Eades for not being certified N.C. nutrition experts? What if a nutrition book author gave a talk at a N.C. bookstore and answered a specific question . . . could that person then be charged with a misdemeanor? What if that was Dr. Willitt of Harvard?

    Here is a more abstract question. We all know there are miscellaneous stupid government-issued license requirements for activities like cutting hair or growing rabbits. Those are easy to scorn. Are there reasonable license requirements? For example, physicians? Civil engineers?

    • Essentially alll licensing requirements are bullshit, but not competence, panache, intelligence and so on. People have given up their own animal instincts for the so-called safety of job holders.

      I hate part of my position on this because there are so many good docs and sergions, like Eades, Harris, Kruse. But the thing is, they would have been good anyway. Anyway. Do you understand that? It’s precisely why they are here, and not there.

      • Mel, a biomedical scientist says:

        I teach basic science classes to both medical and graduate students at a major US medical center. I get a first hand view of the quality of these students and it is decidedly mixed – there are always students in my classes that will obviously make excellent physicians and there are the ones that I write down their names so I never make the mistake of being treated by them in the future – and this is only the first year into the whole game. To get the MD or PhD degree there are many “hoops” to jump through. Some are essential, like anatomy classes for med students (which FYI many medical schools are trying to significantly shorten as a cost cutting mechanism), but many of the requirements are actually antagonistic to learning how to be the most effective doctor or biomedical researcher. I agree with Richard, the good ones would be good anyway –they only need to learn the actual facts/skills required for their profession and then they will use both their brains and curiosity to figure out what works and what doesn’t. The mediocre or horrible students are the ones that actually thrive fulfilling the bull sh*t portions of their degree and often become very “tied” up in the hierarchy of their profession and the power it gives them. Doctors, like any other profession, shouldn’t automatically be given respect and trust simply because they went through the proper training. The respect should be reserved for the people that are competent at what they do, treat you as an intelligent individual and get results –not just spout the party line and rest their authority on their educational laurels.

      • Mel, a biomedical scientist says:

        I should add, a common joke at medical schools goes like this:
        Question: What do you call the lowest ranking student in the current medical school class?
        Answer: Doctor

      • More specifically, you call them an orthopaedic surgeon.

      • Hey Mel.

        Hope all is going well. Hey, if you don’t know, you’re one of the 3 or 4 success stories we used in my book. :)

        Cheers.

      • This is very well put. I agree 100%. I think that while you have the proper training, your track record should garner you the respect. It’s both that matter to me.
        I never trusted anyone, regardless of degree, until they showed me they deserved it. In the case of my Endo, he treated my wife for a hyperactive thyroid, and I now have a child (after her going through no less than 5 miscarriages!) The endo in question has earned my respect with his results. He is also fucking smart too.

      • There should be no such thing as state licensing for anything except for the privilege of exposing others to your driving on public roads.

        Were they to abandon professional licensing (and the fees derived therefrom) there would be no practical negative effect. Insurance payers would instantly require board certification or the appropriate credential in order to submit a bill, and anyone who is self taught and has the knowledge, talent and reputation to thrive without insurance reimbursement would do so, and anyone who is a fraud could take his chances with the gullible, who always take bad advice despite the government’s best efforts anyways.

        So I have no need for the guild protection of state licensing boards. I’ve seen them harass the innocent occasionally and ignore the egregious routinely.

        And we sure as shit don’t need the state to certify people to cut our hair or groom our pets.

      • “I’ve seen them harass the innocent occasionally and ignore the egregious routinely.”

        Kurt gets pithy.

      • Todd Watson says:

        “Were they to abandon professional licensing (and the fees derived therefrom) there would be no practical negative effect.”

        This. It’s nothing more than a tax. It’s not a guarantee or insurance that said licensee isn’t full of shit.

  7. Steve, first they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then they fight with you, and then you triumph in many more ways than they tried to destroy you………… the greatest revolution of our generation is the discovery that all mankind, by changing the inner attitudes of our minds, can change the outer aspects of all their lives if they just think differently. You have clearly excelled at this and now you are being brought to task for its divine creativity.
    Steve is finding out what some of us have already faced professionally. Do not fret. The road before you may seem lonely but there will be thousands who light that road while you travel it who are your beacons to help guide you in this fight. It is great to be a leader but do not be too out in front of the rest of the world because they will come after you because their livelihoods will be threatened. Just see Galileo or Copernicus as examples. Some of us have evaluated those risks and told the establishment to kiss our ass. I have an inkling Steve is cut from that same cloth. Personally i have found, the personal revolution that begins in ourselves is far more difficult, and it is the first step in any revolution worthwhile. As Richard eloquently blogs, people will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul. There comes a time for us all where must cross a new divide, when the risks to remain frozen in time was far more painful than the risks it takes us to emerge as the ice thaws. I see Steve emerging from this and becoming something greater than he ever might have become. As Ms. Williamson once said, “personal transformations can and do have global effects. As we go, so goes the world, for the world is us. The revolution that will save the world is ultimately a personal one.” When we are challenged this is when we find our fortitude and our character.

  8. Richard,

    Sincerest thanks for this post. It means more than you know.

    “…if Steve doesn’t buckle under, there’s a gun.” Indeed, I was told by the director, if I did not agree to changes an injunction would be filed.

    I do not have an attorney officially so my exact course has not been set… but I will fight this for as long as I can. My discussions with attorneys has been very encouraging.

    Here is my response to a comment on my blog. —

    <>

    Thank you again Richard!

  9. The program did not like my formatting… here was my response.
    —-
    … there are work arounds. I just don’t want to do them. :) Especially since I believe I have a right to say them… they are after all true and all can be proven.

    It would take time for me to re-write the blog… time that I need to spend in other areas of my life.

    Lastly, I want to fight this… I want to use this to educate and inform others that a group of people are trying to ‘monopolize nutrition’ and publicize the benefits of a low carb paleo style meal plan for diabetics.

    • Steve, I hope you fight this and I think you have a very good chance of succeeding and making a very bold statement. I think you would find a lot of support, financially or otherwise if you choose to pursue this. It’s definitely turning into a cause célèbre

      • Thanks Sean! :) … I fully intend to fight.

        I have two potential law firms at the moment, none are official representatives.

        They both know I do not want to settle and both want to ‘go for it’. :)

    • The sad thing is that the media in NC is extremely liberal. Don’t expect any help from them unless you get a huge Twitter defense thing going.

      • And what’s to prevent any of us from helping out on Twitter? Or blogs? Or ANY social media?

        Or Steve from starting a Kickstarter project to help fund his case?

        There’s a bunch of options; it’s just a matter of who wants to stand behind him.

      • Both law firms I’ve talked to want to publicize this… so I am encouraged by that and the support I’ve received in the Low Carb/Paleo/Primal community.

        I’ve received support from ‘free speech’ groups who were unaware of paleo / primal living … which is the reason I want to move forward…. spreading the word and exposing the scam that is the ‘nutritional guidelines’.

  10. North Carolina … the home of this crap: http://www.naturalnews.com/032066_North_Carolina_health_freedom.html

    So, if a Mom tells her kids to eat liver & kale chips but not eat bread, soy, sugar, beans and milk and isn’t a RD, she’s guilty of a crime because that’s not an approved diet? What if she tells her kids to eat an approved cereal with as much sugar as a candy bar? Okay? Seriously? Arrrgh! More and more there’s no question the inmates are in charge of the asylum.

  11. You know what’s weird? One of the people on the board of the North Carolina Board of Dietetics/Nutrition, Kathleen Sodoma, works at SYSCO Foods. FOr real. I mean, one of the biggest distributors to fast food restaurants is SYSCO. Conflict of interest anyone?

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kathleen-sodoma/12/395/b37

    • It is wrong for sure … but it’s ‘normal’.

      The fundraising foundation for the American Dietetic Ass. is a PepsiCo employee… if weird is ‘abnormal’ … it’s not weird. It is sad and wrong.

  12. The real hypocrisy is in the NCBDN’s pretending that its the _activity_ of unapproved advice that they are going after, rather than the _substance_ of that advice. I’m sure a bit of Googling could come up with numerous NC sites that offer “healthy” advice by non-licensed people, but the NCBDN couldn’t care less about then because they agree with the message. But if we take them at their word, they should be enforcing their rules against ANYONE who offers unlicensed advice, whether the substance of the advice is considered acceptable or not. It’s selective enforcement at its worst, and one of the marks of tyranny.

  13. wow……I’ll be writing an email in the lest

  14. Oh man, I am about to throw a pipe bomb into this conversation… ironically, I spent the whole day at the metabolic center dealing with nurses, clinical dieticians, etc. Funny how things are.
    I mentioned this situation to a very prominent enocrinologist, and guess what, he gave the thumbs up. That’s the rub there. LOL

    Here’s where you aren’t going to like me.

    I have worked with dieticians, doctors, and educators. I have been a person who was responsible for the menu creation in a clincal environment. I understand “the other side” of the equation here.

    I also am a diabetic, and insulin dependant. I, unlike Steve, don’t have a choice in that matter. See, I am a T1 LADA diabetic, which means my pancreas has completely shut down from an autoimmune attack.

    While I agree that Steve’s testimony is profound, and he has a right to shout it out to the rooftops – and to help as many people as he can – I completly disagree with the complete disregard to licensing in the matter.

    Think on it like this – that nutritioninst that you are saying “has no qualifications,” or “is spouting off ADA nonsense,” actually had to put in their time in a clinical setting (most often for free – or paying for the privilidge of work.) The same goes for a diabetes educator nurse. This isn’t something that people send post tops away in the mail to get a shiny certificate.

    Honestly, until you have actually had to administer clinical nutrition to a patient that you knew was going to die regardless of your actions – but you have to give some form of hope to them – until you have done that – you need understand that your anecdoctal advice really doesn’t qualify you to tell the world that the people that have actually paid their dues are full of shit.

    Look at Dr Bernstein. That is a man I admire. He went through HELL. He learned, much like a lot of diabetics have to – by eating to his meter, testing, and retesting, and getting something together that worked.

    When he found that noone listened to him, brushed him off, he did the one thing he knew would give him the tools to spread his message – he became an endocrinologist. He actually spent 7 years in medical school, then another 5 years for his specialty to have the priviledge to give practical diabetes advice to people who needed it, with the credentials to back him up.

    If you can tell me that his license doesn’t mean shit, then I have news for you – you can’t have it both ways.

    Sure, there is a lot of money involved, but understand that a lot of times these people’s hands are tied. I questioned my nutritionist to the ninth degree today. I could tell she was getting exasperated… but I also know that she has the clinical background to back her up… I also know that she needs to go on information that is scientifically proven.

    Why is that? Well, if I give you advice that goes against what studies show us, then I am taking a risk. For you and me, it’s not that big of a deal; we don’t have a license to lose. It’s not our paycheck, our career that’s on the line. Hell, we just remove a couple links, put up a disclaimer, and we are good to go.

    If the advice turns out to be wrong? Oops, n=1 y’all. Understand that it DOES NOT WORK that way in a clinical environment.

    Would you let a doctor operate on you using some technique that he read up upon on the interwebs, but didn’t have the necessary data to back up whether it would be beneficial or not? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

    This is why I have scaled back my whole “help a diabetic” aspect on my blog. I really can only show what is in MY experience. I can tell someone what works for me. I know that I can’t use language like, “Do you need ‘;hands on” support to transition to a

    healthy lifestyle ? Click Here.” or, “You’ve been given the wrong advice and your health hasn’t improved?
    I repeat , ” I can help you learn how to control diabetes! ”

    There are also copy like,

    “You could say . I know how to
    control diabetes (type 2) and
    obesity . Make no mistake, the
    way I eat , exercise .. the way I
    LIVE is the best way for all
    diabetics to live including Type l’ ”

    I am not surprised you are being targeted. How do you qualify that you know what the best way to manage type 1 diabetes? Why should I believe you? Because you say that the people who are are crooks?

    Honestly, the Endo I saw today (and several others I have talked to have cheered for you Steve!) has my complete respect. I understand he has 47 freaking years of experience to back him up. He walks the walk, hell – he even takes his metformin! (And no – he’s not diabetic! The 100 year old drug is being discovered again for preventing things like lung cancer in ex-smokers, heart patients, etc. Not bad for a drug derived from seagull shit. LOL)

    Dr. Bernstein, I will listen to him. Not only is he a T1, but he PAID his dues, and deserves my respect. He helps thousands with his message, that he is QUALIFIED to give.

    I am sorry for this long winded post. I am just trying to give a little voice of reason, even if it means my skin will be flayed off my bones for it.

    Cheers y’all!

    • If someone spends 47 years failing to prevent or cure a disease, why does that earn respect?

      • Pithy way to beat me to the punch, pfw.

        I was going to say something like 47 years into making the worlds greatest mud pies and at the end of the day, you have…mud pies.

        Dear Jason has fallen victim to the labor theory of value.

      • @Richard –
        No, you ought to know me better than that. I just call bushit when I see it.
        Let’s compare for a second. I have a dude that claimes to “help me” given his own anecdoal experience. On the other, I have a pioneer that has actually made a difference. A hard ass that won’t take any excuses, and actually pushes people to make that change.
        At the end of the day – Steve has it partially right. Most of the control has to come from the person. A doctor can’t make you follow a diet, or take a pill, or whatever.
        The problem here stems from an assumption that you can “cure” or even completely manage diabets without drugs, based on the anecdotal evidence of one person. Everyone is different. I CANNOT manage my disease without insulin. I will die. End of story.
        I have honestly gained more control from the endocrinologist than I have on my own. Withmy endo’s help, I take far less insulin than 90% of people. (In all, I take a grand total of 35 units a day.)
        Yes, I had to listen to dietician’s canned advice they need to give. Wanna know something? Most clinical people won’t out and “prescribe” something that is in the fringe. Again, it’s all about risk. Wanna know something else? There is no gun to my head. Yes, the plan mentions stuff like bread, pop, etc. I don’t eat that shit. I don’t because other people say that it works for them – but NONE of them are telling me that it’s the only “DRUG-FREE” way to manage my disease.
        Finally, the labor theory of value? Hardly. I fall victim to results. Steve Cooksey CAN manage HIS diabetes (note – he is NOT cured…) with diet and exercise, but his protocol WILL NOT work for me, nor a LOT of people. What is he to do then, turn around and say that I am doing it wrong?
        Sounds like a certain government agency I know… (Cough Cough USDA)

      • I am sorry about the attrocious spelling. Dang iPhone and all…

      • The beauty of what Cooksey gets to say is that you have no obligation to listen. The freedom of speech carries with it a warning that no one has to listen.

        As far as I can see, he is not claiming that you can manage all Type 1 diabetics without drugs. He seems to be claiming that a Bernstein way of life is the best way to manage the disease.

      • Sure, I’ll bite about freedom of speech. Most people don’t know that it doesn’t cover your ass when it comes to slander, libel, mistruths, defamation, and such. For instance, calling the ADA the “American Diabetes Ass.” (with a barely logical abbreviation) could be construed as defamation. It’s a stretch – but it’s also not really helping the cause, know what I mean?

        As for the doctor with 47 years experience “failing” to cure diabetes – the man IS a pioneer. I told you I chose the BEST guy for the job. He has done MORE for diabetics than all of us bloggers combined. That’s why I chose him. I waited for over a year and a half to see this guy.

        I respect him because he doesn’t just talk shit. I know that he can get results, that’s why I took the time to seek him out.

        I notice that in your diatribe against Endos, you conspicuously leave out Dr. Bernstein, the same man who Cooksey advocates for T1D. Am I to believe that since he has not “cured” diabetes, that I shouldn’t respect him either?

        Hardly.

      • They can sue him if he’s defaming them. That’s not what they’re doing.

        You didn’t say that you respected this doctor because he was good. You said you respected him because he worked in the field for 47 years. Had you said you respected his past accomplishments and demonstrated acumen, this would have been a different conversation. But you didn’t.

        And what’s this about a “diatribe against endos” and not respecting Bernstein? The hell are you on about?

      • @pfw – because he spent 47 years fighting the ADA, CDA, and the endocriniology society to get the standard of care we have today. Without that, we would still be treating the diasease like we did back in the ’70s. You know – dignosing the disease at a blood sugar of 12 mmol.
        Also, diabetes has no cure… be careful with that word. Steve Cooksey hasn’t cured anything either. He MANAGES his disease. Is he cured? Ask him to drink a 16 oz glass of orange juice chased with a chocolate bar. Then check his sugar 2 hours later.
        My bets are he will refuse…. because he is diabetic.
        Paleo/Primal is not a cure, but a protocol.

      • I never said anyone could cure diabetes. I said I don’t understand why 47 years of failing to do so means I should respect someone’s opinions. Their work ethic, maybe. But their medical advice?

        Guys used to spend decades putting leeches on people, a service for which they commanded the greatest respect. Semmelweis ended up in a mental institution after running up against the respected old men of his day. My gastroenterologist, decades of clinical experience, six month wait for an appointment, told me that my diet couldn’t possibly work. Got a new one and that was that.

        I don’t respect old people’s knowledge just because they are old. In a century school children will snicker at the idiocy of the people you respect today. I respect people who are capable of adjusting their beliefs based on evidence and admitting their own uncertainty, which while trite is so incredibly hard that most people can’t do it. Which is why I respect those that can.

      • FWIW, I agree that people in clinical practice in America have their hands tied when it comes to acknowledging uncertainty or exploring common sense alternatives. I’m not trying to say that doctors in clinical practice should be randomly treating people based on stuff they read on the internet. In a litigious society that’s not a good strategy.

        But I strongly disagree that experience automatically equates to respectable wisdom or knowledge.

      • I agree – experience doesn’t mean shit. Results do.
        I am not advocating for ADA here… I am simply pointing out how Steve Cookey has landed in hot water. I am all for fighting against the “man,” and conventional wisdom.
        I am against potentially dangerous advice, and the thought that you can “cure” your diabetes with some snake oil diet. At best you can reverse the damage done to your pancreas, perhaps allow some islet cells to regenerate if you are lucky. In terms of a T2D, the problem isn’t really the pancreas, it’s the insulin resistance. The pancreatic damage comes later.

        In the end, it doesn’t matter – around 90% of diabetics will end up on some form of medication sooner or later. You can delay it for as long as you can, but it is inevitable. Its a degenerative disease. The best you can do right now is to stave off complications by normalizing your blood sugars.

      • Todd Watson says:

        Whoa whoa whoa! What a minute. How is advising people to eat foods on the lower glycemic index (you know, foods that produce less sugar) a snake oil diet, but advising people to eat more foods on the higher glycemic index (you know, foods that produce MORE sugar) sound? Shouldn’t eating less sugar be promoted?

      • damaged justice says:

        Semantic bullshit. If I stop drinking arsenic, am I “cured” of arsenic poisoning, and does that mean I can now ingest arsenic with impunity?

      • Okay, so how does your logic point out that what I am saying is “semantic bullshit?”

        Diabetes is a disease of blood glucose disregulation. In the case of T1D, without insulin, blood sugar rises naturally to a toxic level, the person goes into diabetic ketoacidosis, and dies. How is that semantic bullshit?

        A cure means the pancreas will do it’s job, and the body will listen to the insulin. A normal person can drink a glass of orange juice, eat a chocolate bar, and maintain normal blood sugar levels. They can also eat meat, fat, vegetables, etc, and not have a raised blood sugar 2 hours after a meal.

      • pfw, so TRUE!!

        90% of diabetics FAIL!!! But let’s not change …no, let’s keep the same failed nutritional policy and expect a different result.

        Insanity anyone???

      • So, I am just gonna try and figure out what you are trying to say here. Are you are calling “failure” the fact that the pancreas burns out over time?
        You do know that diabetes is a DEGENERATIVE disease, right? So, given that 90% of diabetics will go on insulin because of pancreatic function does not mean they are FAILING.
        This is again where people have problems with “your word.” I get that you are trying to help, but you are also slapping the very people you are trying to help.
        I get that you have a passion, but I am not getting that you actually understand the nature of the beast you are fighting against.

        You know, despite going on a low carb diet, a LOT of people actually end up going on insulin. As time passes on, they find they have no choice. If you haven’t already seen it, check out the Diabetes Online Community, and you will see stories about people with this problem.

        This is also why I take exception to the use of the word “cure.” “Treatment” is a better word.

        Stave off the shut down of your pancreas, make it wait long enough – that’s the key.

        Don’t tell a diabetic that he has failed though. Do you think I have failed? I’ll laugh in your face bud. I did all that I could do, I tried different protocols. I’ll be gad-damned if I hear someone tell me that I wasn’t doing it right, and I “failed.” Fuck that.

        I continue to live today, at the best of my ability. I have a degenerative disease. Despite that, I am also taking the least amount of insulin that I need in order to survive. I realized pretty quickly that I couldn’t do it on my own – in fact, I know the definition of insanity – I don’t beat a dead horse day in day out expecting a different result.

      • Jason… I wish you all the best, I sincerely do.

        But your comments are so full of misrepresentations, self pity, and I have seen this all too often. People ‘come to the fight’ with the same baggage they’ve repeated over and over…without reading my posts.

        If Richard can’t help you see this… there’s little chance I can. I’ll be repeating what I have stated numerous times in my blog and many other places.

        —————-
        1) Diabetes is NOT degenerative… high blood sugars are. If you do not believe that a low carb, low inflammation meal plan is not the best way to manage that… too bad, so sad.

        There are many examples in on my blog of success stories for T1’s and T2s of people who have revered neuropathy, retinopathy and even partial organ failure.

        There are no guarantees …but it’s possible depending on the previous damage.

        2) Cured my diabetes? … if you knew me you would know that I have never said that… in fact I write posts specifically against using that phrase.

        The rest of your note is nothing but ‘mamby pamby’ whiny ass rants that have noting to do with me or the issues.

        I never criticize or blame diabetics…. unless they are ADA Minion.
        I never claim that T1’s can wean off insulin.

        All the best.

      • Dude… seriously. Before you spout off any more bullshit on how I am misrepresenting things, ACTUALLY read Dr. Bernstein’s book.

        To say Diabetes is not degenerative? Um, okay – so don’t take insulin as a type 1 diabetic. Don’t preserve your fucking pancreatic funtion, as prescribed by Dr. Bernstein on pg 99, 140, 208, 236, 249-250, and 270. Then tell me that diabetes is not degenerative without insulin therapy. Remember, this is the guy you are ADVOCATING people to follow.

        I never said YOU stated that you cured your diabetes. I stated I don’t approve of the word “cure.” (Actually in response to another comment, but I digress…)

        Calling me winey ass? Seriously man. I’m not whining. I’m also not crying because my “first amendment rights” are being violated. I’m not whining or crying about a situation that I refuse to understand. (Like, have you EVEN read the guidelines that you violated yet?)

        Instead, you bitch and moan about your first amendment rights… forget about fucking safety, forget about the people who actually worked their asses off in a clinical setting to deserve the license to dispense advice. Of course, you’re better right?

        See, your before/after picture totally proves it.

        Yah, I can see how I’m being totally whiney here, when all I am doing is trying to debate the other side of the issue.

        Richard, I like this blog, I always have. Don’t agree with everything you say, but fuck, that’s your right. In the end, I would think a little healthy debate is a good thing.

        Instead, I get someone who just attacks me. Real smart Cooksey, show ‘em how your here to helo! Rock on dude!

      • The best part of this is… acording to the guidelines you refuse to read…

        All you have to do is NOT give individual nutritional advice… then your problem goes away.

        Mark Sisson has a discalimer. Robb Wolf has a disclaimer. They don’t give individual advice. They tell the people to work with a healthcare practitioner.

        You, Cooksey – didn’t even read the guidelines. That’s not me misrepresenting you, that’s actually on your blog post here: http://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2012/01/28/this-site-free-speech-are-being-investigated/

        You can give general advice, you can even maybe give advice about diabetes in general – but when you start coaching, by the laws of the state, that’s when you get into the shit.

        I don’t understand why you think you’re different than Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, etc. Fuck, Even Art De Vany has a disclaimer where he states his advice is not accepted by medical community. He even has a line stating, “Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have read.”

        Why do you think you should be different?

      • “to deserve the license”

        Question begging. Nobody “deserves” a license to keep anyone else out. Licensing is simply a means by which incompetence gets free reign.

        “Instead, I get someone who just attacks me.”

        Pot. Kettle. Black.

        I like your patronage & commenting too, Jason, but I call ‘em how I see ‘em, no matter from who.

      • “but when you start coaching, by the laws of the state, that’s when you get into the shit.”

        Indeed. Don’t tread on the established Mafia’s turf.

      • LOL. Well, that is your opinion. My dad has a license to work on automobiles as a mechanic. He apprenticed for 4 years for it. He might disagree with you on the license issue.

        Same with me, I worked really hard to get my license (papers) for cooking.

        I appologize if I come off as attacking. That;’s not my intention. I’m trying to present another side to this, healthy debate and all, to make this more than a Rah Rah! type post.

        Hopefully, we all come away from this with something.

      • A state granted license, or a private certification? There’s a world of differecne.

        Are you in the UK? Licensing for working on cars & cooking? If so, perhaps they’s what’s behind the UKs longstanding problem with reputation in both areas—implying nothing of course about any particular individual’s competence.

      • “To say Diabetes is not degenerative? Um, okay – so don’t take insulin as a type 1 diabetic. ”

        Seriously… LOL! … Jason this is all I had to read.

        You have difficulty reading for comprehension… instead you cherry pick.

        If you do not take insulin … your blood sugar will rise. High Blood sugars are indeed degenerative.

        This is a perfect example of you bringing your baggage and preconceived BS into this discussion.

        And makes this a TOTAL waste of time.

      • I agree. Total waste of time. It’s like banging my head against a wall.. I see that you won’t be convinced…

        FWIW – yes, blood sugar is part of the equation, but in the case of a T1D – insulin resistance isn’t the issue (until later…)

        The issue is the autoimmune attack on the pancreatic islet cells. It’s focused on teh proteins of the islet cells. This has NOTHING to do with high blood sugar.

        That’s why the disease is classified as degenerative. I mean, is there something you would like to point me to that disproves this?

        Dr. Bernstein even says on Pg 99, “The autoimmune attack upon beta cells… is focused on several proteins…. the more vesicles created when more insulin is manufactured, the greater the autoimmune attack upon the beta cell…”

        See, what he is describing is known as the honeymoon period. That’s what I am in right now. I have kept my honeymoon period for almost 2 years now with my lifestyle.

        Most honeymoon periods last 6 months.

        So, can you point me to where I have a comprehension problem here?

        Diabetes is a disease of 2 things:

        Type 1 is autoimmune
        Type 2 is insulin resistance

        Blood sugar is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

        That’s why it’s hard to think you are credible… I can see for myself – because I have read a LOT of material on this – instead of blindly listening to the CDA (or ADA in your area.)

        I educated myself about the disease…

        But, if I am wrong, please help me and point me in the right direction. I can admit when I’m wrong. Not about nutrition, mind you, just about the course of the disease…

      • LOL. God no! I’m in Canada.

        Now, there’s nothing saying you have to license to work on a car. (Except here in Quebec – but that’s a whole other ballgame!) The thing is, people trust that apprentising for 4 years gives you some handle on the trade.

        It’s like a guild thing of olden days. Sure, Cooter could work on your car, but my Dad actually 4 years as an apprentice to work on cars. (That and he has 35 years under his belt too – doesn’t hurt.)

        And yes, it’s a state granted licence. Mine had a set of standards that we had to prive each year, (food preparations, sanitation guidelines, etc,) a practical, and then a government test designed to weed out most retarded people. (Or at least I thought so when I took the test. It was fucking easy!)

      • Last chance and then I’m moving on …

        “Blood sugar is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.”

        Wrong again Jason. High Blood Sugar is a symptom and a problem.

        High blood sugars cause all sorts of diabetes complications… including hindering the bodies ability to heal itself. So not only does it cause degeneration, it hinders the healing as well.

        It is a problem… as noted above … HIGH BLOOD SUGAR causes heart disease, kidney diseases, neuropathy, retiniopathy etc etc.

        I personally KNOW many T1’s … many I communicate with daily and they are thriving. So I know what I am telling you is true… you can believe or continue to disparage those attempting to help others.

      • I think private qualifications and certifications are grand, just as I wrote in my latest about the highly successful Inderwriters Laboratories for home appliance safety.

        Now, imagine if the state had been in charge.

        Licensing kills competition, and as a consequence, evolution, learning, improvement because most licensees are content to sit on their lazy asses, content with the protection and in fact, will more often than not resist and fight any innovation within the ranks,

        I pitty you guys up there, over that.

      • Pity away. I have no problem with my licensing. In fact, it’s not Standard here in Quebec… they almost don’t recogize it. Instead they have cooking schools where kids get out and think they are at the same level.

        Then they cry because I get the job – because I have the credentials. LOL.

        On the contrary – my license just says that I’m licensed. If I want to sit on my lay ass I can, but that won’t get me anywhere.

        I got to my current point in my career through hard work, sacrifice, learning, and raw talent.

        Same can’t be said about joe blow with a license. All the license says is that I know the basics. It’s like a black belt. Once you get it, the learning really begins.

      • I don’t suppose barely competent people ever get licenses and then use them to get a job over someone far more talented and interested in cooking to bother.

      • Okay, you know LOTs of T1s. I know a lot too. I am a regular in the DOC. You? Are you on TuDiabetes? DLife? Diabetic Forums?
        You can cherry pick all day… that’s fine. I can see that you think you’re right, and you’re entitled to that.

        I could pick apart what you are saying, (Which isn’t totally wrong, but only half right…,) but I have to ask what I have to gain from it.

        Nothing, really.

        The only reason I spoke up is to maybe sort of help you understand the other side of what’s going on with your problems.

        If you don’t want to see it, that’s fine. I can’t make you see anything.

        In terms of your “advice,” or “knowledge,” just know that to a regular diabetic, (the ones who live with the disease and the realities of stuff you thankfully DON’T have to face – like dangerous hypos, DKA, etc) you are transparent in your knowledge.

        If you truly want to help, set aside the ego – I mean, it’s rampant on your site! If you want to help, take a positive stance, you might find you’ll get more people on your side.

        When I was first dignosed, I was just like you – ready to take the fight… but the only fight I had in the end was with my own ignorance.

        I learned the hard way a lot of lessons about this disease. I don’t whine about it – contrary to what you say. I also don’t begrudge the fact you are succesful. Honestly, I don’t give a shit.

        What I do care about, is when – like you say – misinformation is spread.

        C’mon man, even in your site, you are always talking about, “American Diabetes Ass.,” or how you are ranting off on some dietitician. I understand the passion – but don’t understand your delivery.

      • LOL. Like I said, a license only means you know the basics.

        Those people who do get the job with nothing but their license RARELY last long…

        I see it all the time. Just because you send me your resume that states you have a Red Seal (that’s our licence up here,) doesn’t mean shit to me.

        You know what? Just because a Doctor or Dietician has a licence doesn’t necessarily mean they are competent either. It does mean they at least learned enough to pass a board certified test.

        Like I said before, I go on results…

      • That’s you, Jason.

        Do you know how it rolls for the hundreds of thousands of other aspiring cooks and chefs in Canada?

        Be explicit. Do you find licensing a value, or would you just rather size someone up and go with our gut, willing to make an error now and then?

        The problem with licensing is that it attracts some of the worst people, becaue they figure: I’ve got a license. An authority says I’m competent. At the same time, many with true independent vision and talent, out of self respects or other values, deem to not lower themselves to seek approval.

        Now since its apparently not mandated for cooking it’s probably a bit of a red herring because if not mandated then the truly talented and passionate will get throug anyway.

        So what good is it? For a short order cook in a 24hr cafe and that’s all?

        Bit how about where it is mandated? You know, there are people like that. So are so fucking talented they would never stoop to have an official authority license them.

      • Well – “Do you find licensing a value, or would you just rather size someone up and go with our gut, willing to make an error now and then?”

        Absolutely, otherwise I wouldn’t have wasted my time and energy getting my license. It had value to me.

        That being said, if you have talent, I will hire you, regardless. You have to understand though, when you are the person doing the hiring, you get a LOT of people crawling out of the woodwork.

        If I need a sous chef (middle manager) I am not gonna take someone that has nothing to back them up. I will usually like to see some form of credentials – but that will only get your ass in the door. Then you have to have an interview with me, and then you need to do a trial.

        That being said – if you want to work at a cafe, then all the power to you – if you like minimum wage.

        For a hotel job, then it’s different. Or, if you want to work abroad. For instance, I can’t come to the US and just take a cafe job, or a position in a hotel. I need to have something to offer that some guy on the street doesn’t. Enter in the credentials.

        I agree with that, or otherwise you all wouldn’t have a chance for those jobs.

        In my case, I can’t get a position in a hotel in say San Fransico as just a cook’s helper. I need to be management – Sous Chef or above, and the criteria is my license, talent, work ethic, and such.

      • No, Jason is Canadian, which is why I give him…leeway when he defends the status quo.

    • Funny that you mention Dr. Bernstein. I admire him very much myself. However, he’s actually a proof of the medical system’s failure. I’ve listened to a few of his interviews. He’s always telling how his health had deteriorated to a dangerous level while he was following the ADA and doctors’ advice. If he didn’t take the matters into his own hands, he’d be dead now instead of helping thousands of other sick people.

      So screw licenses of any kind. The only reason they exist is to restrict competition and increase profits of certain groups at the expense of others (and provide government control over everything). Seeing that 90% of diabetic patients can’t control their blood sugar I’d say ADA’s track record is abysmal and there’s no way they’d survive in a free market. Same goes for every other chronic disease.

      • The most enlightening thing for me, in listening to all of Jimmy’s interviews of Dr B was the resistance of the establishment to in home testing. The recommendation for substantial carbs in the diet was actually a life saving measure way back, before individual glucose monitoring, in order to lessen the risk that a person shooting insulin wouldn’t go hypoglycemic.

        The problem is, with individual BG monitoring these carbs are no longer necessary because with a little education and attention, a person can dramatically decrease their insulin intake by cutting carbs and can manage it all on their own. Millions are now doing it, yet the advice remains largely the same.

        Load up on the carbs.

      • Well, even more enlightening was the fact that Dr B pushed for the Basal/Bolus regime. Before, you took 1 shot. You had to load up on carbs… and the machines were only for hospitals.
        Even today there is resistance to testing. When I was diagnosed, I was told to test every other day. I told them, hell no – I’m going to test after every meal. I got a horrified look from the nurse. She actually thought I would give myself anxiety that way. (Well, maybe I did. LOL)

        In the end, that was how I managed to get my sugars down. In the beginning, I was given a set injection schedule. 6 units rapid for breakfast, 7 for lunch, 8 for dinner. I was going Hypo like crazy. The nurses din’t want to help…

        My endo was the one who actually fixed it for me. He told me to change my Basal insulin to a gentler one… and gave me what’s called a sliding scale.

        Now, I tried low carb – but I still need that bit of insulin, because my body doesn’t make insulin. I will give you an example…

        I needed to climb a huge hill in a 20 minute walk to get to the hospital once the train cleared. I was fasting – and my meter told me 6.4 when I woke up. (115 for you Americans…) After the walk, and with nothing but coffee.. my blood sugar was 8.9 (160.) I fasted until well after lunch… and at 1h30 my blood sugar went down to 3.9 (70) Why? Because of my basal insulin. (My long acting insulin.)

        If I didn’t have that one… my sugar would continue to rise… with activity, everyone’s sugar does. It’s part of the metabolic process to give yourself energy. Unfortunately, without an active pancreas, I have no insulin, so without that insulin in my blood, my sugar would just continue to rise… because there is no insulin in the body to tell the muscles to use it for energy.

        That’s why T1D lose so much weight – they are literally starving because of the lack of insulin.

        So, the point I am trying to get at is, Diabetes is VERY complicated. I think we need to get some trials going with Paleo and Primal protocols. I don’t see it happening, because of the money involved… unless we could convince Monsanto it’s in their best interest… anyway…

      • THere isn’t only the ADA when it comes to diabetes. There is the Joslyn Center, Mayo, ADA, and others.

        I am gonna have to debate the license thing… you have to ask yourself – do you want to take advice from someone who has next to no experience? Some dude who is a truck driver that did something that works for him?

        Or, are you going to take the advice from someone who actually spent the time learning about the human body, did the clinical trials, worked with people who were sick, tried many things, failed, had successes, and has a base of experience behind them?

        Better yet, who should change your transmission, Uncle Jimmy, or GM? What if it’s under warrante? It’s a complex question.

        I personally think the first line of defence is our food. Whether it’s paleo, primal, fuck it – for me it’s real simple… just eat REAL food. (Hence my tagline, REAL food…for LIFE.) Corn? Why the fuck not? As long as it’s real, not GMO – better yet – grow it yourself!

        Back to diabetes. Why does one need a license to practise? Because there is a LOT of bullshit information out there, and LIVES are at stake. Sure, maybe what the ADA is doing isn’t completely right – but it IS backed by very limited science, and trials. (And sure, the drug companies…)

        As for Doctor Bernstein – I am aware of his history… he goes into great detail in his book, his radio (podcast?) What I admire about him was that he understood that in order to make a difference, he would have to put his money where his mouth was, take up a residency, and become an endo.

        A lot of people assume all endos tout the line for the ADA. Out of 3 that I have visited, ONLY 1 has. The other 2 were both, “Keep doing what you are doing!”

        Nutritionists, are far more regulated… but they can even be circumspect as well. They cannot argue with you when you tell them you don’t want to eat processed food. They just can’t. If you tell them you won’t eat grains, of course they are gonna argue with you…

        They have to go on the SCIENCE, the clinical aspects. There has not been any longterm studies (yet) that show the efficacy of a low-carb diet that is grain-free. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence. In fact. Dr. Terry Wahls wants to do just that… http://freetheanimal.com/2011/12/dont-listen-to-me-listen-to-dr-terry-wahls-cured-from-debilitating-multiple-sclerosis-ms-on-a-paleo-diet.html

        She is licensed to practice. Can’t say she is not worth it. I can’t wait until she goes through the proper protocols, and gets this into mainstream science. That’s the missing key to unlock the door for Paleo as an approach to clinical nutrition.

        Remember, I think it’s Robb Wolf who says it best. It takes a GENERATION to change the mindset of science. It’s slow – and it’s meant to be that way. Otherwise, think of the alternative… there is an “epidemic” of diabetes right now. 1 in 3 people stand a chance in getting it in their lifetime. If we fuck around, do something worng, there’s gonna be a lot of people suffering from complications, amputations, etc.

        That’s why there needs to be some regulation on the dispensing of advice. You can tell your story, what workied for you. That’s information. Once you start ADVISING someone on what to do…. that is a different thing.

        I hope I explained myself well enough…

      • “I am gonna have to debate the license thing… you have to ask yourself – do you want to take advice from someone who has next to no experience? Some dude who is a truck driver that did something that works for him?”

        I dunno. I can’t decide such matters for anyone else but myself. Fuck any and all who stand in my way, or anyone else who wishes to engage their own mind and experience.

        No matter how you slice it, Jason, you are advocating for force, control, regulation, licensing and by implication—all the tawdry bullshit that goes hand in hand, like those who actually support these institutions and donate to political campaigns (food and drug manufacturers).

        Is what they offer better than the advice of a truck driver with some first hand experience? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the truck driver.

        Choose your truck driver wisely.

      • Nicely said, Richard!

        Licensing is not a bad thing as long as it’s not mandated by the government. With a few independent, competing agencies the chances of big ph/farma’ influence would be close to nil.

      • Absolutely. “Licensed to practice by XYZ.”

        It basically operates in the same manner that UL has operated all these years “licensing” electric appliances to be safe.

        “UL is a global independent safety science company offering expertise across five key strategic businesses: Product Safety, Environment, Life & Health, Knowledge Services and Verification Services. Our breadth, established objectivity and proven history mean we are a symbol of trust and enable us to help provide peace of mind to all.”

        UL.com

        Note the “com”

        In my experience with electric appliances over decades, they do a marvelous job and I wish we could just let them be in charge of everything. (not really) :)

      • Rich I am glad you said what I was thinking. I soundly reject all that Jason believes. We need to teach Americans precisely how to use the owners manual we each were born with and use it. They wont need my profession that much once they learn it. I am teaching it to them. Steve is. This is the new healthcare paradigm. Once the people regain their power medicine usurped things will normalize. The real chance for revolution in healthcare will be getting people to understand what skin in the game really means. Physicians who believe as Jason does will be the T Rex watching the asteroid hitting them in the ass. We must not just talk about change we must become and foster the changes we seek in medicine. Patient sense the incongruency but they have no way to channel those feelings. We will see to it they learn this. Revolution will come. We just need to to feed the masses the knowledge to take back control. Dr. B methods allowed him to co exists in the system. The next step is going outside the system and showing them how to reverse disease. Unlike many here…….I believe there is a way to do that for all diabetics. Type one included. The problem is when you do not understand the context of those beliefs they become easy to criticize. Steve N-1 shows he knows more then CW. But steve power is small. The people behind him here and other places will be the ones who take the fight to those lokking to punish Steve. The science has a gravity to it that no one can deny. That science has been buried from the light of day because of institutional profits. People know it……..they just do not understand how the system continues the farce. That is paleo’s tipping point. It is not my profession……..that will lead this fight. We will do this in spite of their arrogance.

      • Hey Jack.

        Grace & I were just talking about you last night at dinner. Hope all is well.

        Hey, the real reason I have so much invested in Paleo is because it so works and so much else doesn’t.

        There’s not little doubt, but no doubt it’s an idea whose time has come. We’re in Galileo and Copernicus times, my fried. You know it. I know it.

        We’re all going to ride this monster wave together.

        Then we’re going to gloat, telling everyone that we told you so.

      • ‘Absolutely. “Licensed to practice by XYZ.”’

        If “XYZ” is not a *government* then it is *not* a “license” — it’s a *certificate* or a *certification*. A “license” is, by definition, “permission to do that which would otherwise be illegal.”

        While I’m sure that Richard already knows the distinction, I suspect that many do not — including Jason, if what he writes is to be taken at face value.

        Re: UL. They don’t *license* electrical appliances — they *certify* that the appliance meets certain standards.

      • Thank you, Bob, for spelling that out for us.

        A dietician is “certified” when they get their degree. They then need a “license” to practice dietetics in the state, which would otherwise be illegal.

        They also need to “recertify” every couple of years, to keep current, and to maintain their “license.”

      • Exactly correct, bob r. This is perhaps somewhat wants behind the entire thread, actually, is a basic failure to make that basic distinction.

      • Do you have your cooking license, then, Jason?

        How often do you have to rectify to keep current and maintain your license?

        Now keep in mind, you aren’t just advising people what to eat, but orders of magnitude more intense. You’re actually feeding them. Do you fist get a medical history before you do that? Ever serve carbs to diabetics?

        Holy shit!

        …And you can’t even offer insulin to cover it.

        You are very dangerous, being left out there without supervision from Magical Higher Pow3rz.

      • “Do you have your cooking license, then, Jason?”

        No, I have a red seal certification. A certificate, not a license.

        “How often do you have to rectify to keep current and maintain your license?”

        I don’t have to recertify. It’s not required.

        “Now keep in mind, you aren’t just advising people what to eat, but orders of magnitude more intense. You’re actually feeding them. Do you fist get a medical history before you do that? Ever serve carbs to diabetics?”

        I don’t advise people what to eat. I do feed them, but they are the ones buying the food. In the case where I was in a retirement home, I fed them according to the guidelines set out by a “licensed” and “certified” nutrtionist. As per the regulations.

        Of course, I have served carbs to diabetics. Which brings me to your bext statement:

        “…And you can’t even offer insulin to cover it.”

        Why would I offer them insulin to cover it? I’m not responsible for their care. Isn’t that what you all are advocating anyway?

        Just curious as to where you are going with this, Richard… it seems weak, even for you…

      • “not a license.”

        You called it a license earlier. Look it up.

        “but they are the ones buying the food.”

        So if people come to Steve it’s different than if they come to you? And did I miss something? Steve isn’t and hasn’t proposed to actually feed them food, but simply tell them what works for him.

        But you propose to be allowed to actually feed people?

        Scandalous!

        I think the government needs to investigate what you may be up to right away.

        Better safe than sorry.

        No measure is too much.

        “I’m not responsible for their care.”

        You feed them, offer no coverage, and Steve is the bad guy here?

        Don’t think I’m buying your last line for a second. I always know what I’m doing, so put up or shut the fuck up. Don’t whine to me. You ever see me whining to whatever commenters post?

        Where you going with this? Oh, please don’t go there….it worries me.

        Put up, or shut the fuck up. That’s it.

      • Touched a nerve?

        “You called it a license earlier. Look it up.”

        So I did. My mistake.

        “So if people come to Steve it’s different than if they come to you? And did I miss something? Steve isn’t and hasn’t proposed to actually feed them food, but simply tell them what works for him.

        But you propose to be allowed to actually feed people?”

        How do you equate giving SPECIFIC dietary advice to a diabetic to me feeding someone? I’d like to hear how that’s the same…

        “You feed them, offer no coverage, and Steve is the bad guy here?”

        Why would they need coverage? Unless you mean the licensing for alcohol, or the establishment license, or even the fire permit? Other than that, I’m not doing anythoing that would be medical in nature. Any other strawman arguments there?

        “Don’t think I’m buying your last line for a second. I always know what I’m doing, so put up or shut the fuck up. Don’t whine to me. You ever see me whining to whatever commenters post?”

        So you hear me whining? I offer an alternative explanation other than Rah Rah! I guess in your world, that’s whining.

        I’m simply asking you to explain yourself. I see you like to pick apart various arguments without actually answering things… cherry picking yourdefense without actually answering some questions. I’ll give you that – you’re a great debater.

        Where you going with this? Oh, please don’t go there….it worries me.

        Put up, or shut the fuck up. That’s it.

      • “Touched a nerve?”

        No.

        Everyone, including myself, at 175+ comments and counting is simply getting tired of your same bullshit. If you don’t believe me, ask them, those even still subscribed to comments.

        You’re a bore, Jason. And you don’t know how to state your case and leave it at that.

        “How do you equate giving SPECIFIC dietary advice to a diabetic to me feeding someone? I’d like to hear how that’s the same…”

        It’s not the same. You are a far greater danger. You are actually feeding people. Do they really know what’s in that? Do you hand out specific labels with your meals?

        How can we possibly trust you to do that, without a license from North Carolina?

        I’m serious.

        North Fucking Carolina. Get a license, or, to us, you’re just a charlatan only in it for the money.

      • Sorry Richard, having issues with the copy and paste on my iPhone that’s why everything may appear messed up.

        I’m only answering you for when you challenge me. You tell me to put up or shut the fuck up. No problem man. If you can’t handle that my opinion might be different than yours, I can agree to disagree on the matter
        Like you, I call bullshit when I see it. I don’t have a fancy bullshit horn – I roll lightweight up here LOL

        If defending my thoughts is being a bore, fine. I’m not one to just chime in and Rah! Rah! What you have to say. I was under the impression some intelligent debate was what you wanted. Check how many of those 175+ comments come from me – but have it your way dude. Next time I guess I’ll just be all Hoo Rah! Too bad, wasted a good portin of my week actually getting something out of this debate – I’m not professing to know it all – and I sure as fuck don’t have a cute answer for everything either.

        Well, cheers!

      • Jason:

        I’ve always valued your input and commenting. But you say essentially the same thing over and over.

      • Well, from where you stand, it’s all good – until you get to a point where you can’t just help yourself. See, get yourself an autoimmune disease – where no matter what you do, your body cannibilizes itself – then tell me you are still gonna spit in the face of the guy who has got that licence, knows what the fuck he is talking about, and is there to help you verses the truck driver.
        I have chosen wisely – after 2 years of bullshit – I have done the N=1, Bernstein, Paleo, etc. Guess what? I cannot be healed. I can manage my disease.
        I manage it by a primal lifestyle – but I need my medicine. Because I don’t want to die. Sorry – call me “brainwashed” if you like, but that is how it is.
        The main issue here is not licensing. It’s not Endos verses Truck drivers. The main issue here is a group going after someone without credentials giving advice the law says he is not entitled to give – that is made worse because of the inflammitory remarks made against them.
        No offense – most people here have not been in a clinical setting. You have not had to make a choices that affect the outcome of a patient’s life. Sure, you might make choices that affect your own, and that’s great.
        But you can’t immediately translate that over to “helping” someone else by giving them adcive you have no fucking clue as to give. Sure, don’t make licensing manditory. Just don’t expect that I’m going to go to some asshole who has no experience to help me fix the problem I have, other than reading a few books, looking over the internet, experimenting on himself, (or herself) but that has never had to “learn the hard way” through clinical practise.
        In fact, what I did was pretty much embrace BOTH sides. Take the diet plan, and tailor it for the Primal lifestyle. You want me to eat more carbs? Fine. But they are gonna be in the form of vegetables, and not grains.
        I won’t eat the 250g per day, but I can raise it to be under 150g, so I am at the carb curve. I will eat more real foods, leave the fat free shit on the wayside, and basically just go from there. Move more, lift heavy things. Story resolved.

      • ” The main issue here is a group going after someone without credentials giving advice the law says he is not entitled to give – that is made worse because of the inflammitory remarks made against them.”

        Indeed.

        There should be no law saying that you can’t give out medical advice. There should be laws saying you can’t pretend to have a certification or qualification you do not – you cannot impersonate a doctor, for example – since that would be fraud. But if I want to tell you to stop taking insulin and eat 1000g of carbs a day, an action which would surely killed you, I should not be stopped from doing so any more than I should be stopped from advising people to jump off bridges.

        The problem is with the laws in the former case. There should be absolutely zero “speech tests” in this country, where your speech is filtered by what some state licensing agency says you are allowed to say. The potential for abuse should be obvious, since it’s happening right in front of you right now.

        Again you conflate defamation with what should be protected speech. Those are two entirely different things and if the ADA wants to sue for defamation they can. They are not suing for defamation. They are trying to get him charged with a misdemeanor.

      • Alright, time to do a Mark 1, Mod A unpack. So here goes, Jason.

        “…then tell me you are still gonna spit in the face of the guy who has got that licence, knows what the fuck he is talking about”

        Oh, my, that’s an enormous conflation.

        Licensing certainly does not mean a licensee knows what the the fuck he’s talking about.

        You’re still at square one. Still on your own. Still responsible to manage your own condition.

        “verses the truck driver.”

        Illogical guilt by association. Both have licenses, one to practice medicine, the other to drive a many-ton truck very fast on highways and two-lane roads. As it is a truck, he needs also be competent to tie down his load so that, like…you know when you’re on the outside of a hard curve and a loaded truck is coming the other way, all the shit doesn’t just slide off and kill you?

        So I suppose it’s impossible for someone so competent in one area to have any potential competence in another. We’re just ants, each one with his role.

        “I have chosen wisely – after 2 years of bullshit – I have done the N=1, Bernstein, Paleo, etc. Guess what? I cannot be healed. I can manage my disease.”

        No you can’t. You don’t have license to practice and according to your own admonishments, you best have one. So get signed up for med school so that you can be assured…no, guaranteed to competently manage your own condition.

        “I manage it by a primal lifestyle – but I need my medicine. Because I don’t want to die. Sorry – call me “brainwashed” if you like, but that is how it is.”

        You can’t categorically state this. You don’t have a license or training.

        “The main issue here is not licensing. It’s not Endos verses Truck drivers. The main issue here is a group going after someone without credentials giving advice the law says he is not entitled to give – that is made worse because of the inflammitory remarks made against them.”

        Made worse to whom?

        In case you didn’t know, I upped the ante and edited my post to include the names of all the mutherfuckers involved in this.

        “The main issue here is a group going after someone without credentials giving advice the law says he is not entitled to give”

        That group can blow me, and if I had ‘roids, they would be welcome to tongue ‘em.

        Fuck ‘em, the evil SOBs they are.

        “No offense – most people here have not been in a clinical setting. You have not had to make a choices that affect the outcome of a patient’s life. Sure, you might make choices that affect your own, and that’s great.”

        Without licensing?

        OK, so it’s fine if someone chooses to go it alone. But it’s not fine if they have success? Oh, you object? Yea, you’re happy if they have their unlicensed success, eh? JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT. DON’T TELL ANYONE.

        Do you see, Jason, how ridiculously untenable your position is, yet? Either everyone needs training, qualification and a license to even treat themselves, or if not, then they have to remain silent about any good or bad results, because if not, they’re practicing.

        “But you can’t immediately translate that over to “helping” someone else by giving them adcive you have no fucking clue as to give.”

        Uh, I hate to point this out, but you’re seriously begging the question. The subject of the investigation is not in any respect about the quality of Steve’s advice. It’s that he’s allegedly giving advice without having a license to do so.

        In other words, the likely possibility that his specific advice is absolutely the best advice for a type II diabetic is “inadmissible.” That, dear Jason, is the sorry state of the position you have to defend and I don’t envy you because I will ultimately mince your argument to shreds, as I am doing right now.

        “Sure, don’t make licensing manditory. Just don’t expect that I’m going to go to some asshole who has no experience to help me fix the problem I have, other than reading a few books, looking over the internet, experimenting on himself, (or herself) but that has never had to “learn the hard way” through clinical practice.”

        Uh, hate to point this out, but this isn’t about forcing you, or even admonishing you to do anything. Rather, you have taken the position that you support people ultimately backed by guns to stand in the way of the diabetic next door, should they choose to seek out Steve.

        Let’s be very clear about who is not being forced and who is advocating force (you).

        “In fact, what I did was pretty much embrace BOTH sides. Take the diet plan, and tailor it for the Primal lifestyle. You want me to eat more carbs? Fine. But they are gonna be in the form of vegetables, and not grains.”

        Without a license or training? Figured it out on your own?

        And, so, if Steve said such a thing it would be meaningless, right? And if he suggested such a thing to any diabetic, wrong, right?

        “Story resolved.”

        Good for you. Just don’t tell anyone. Mums the word.

      • Ah. No sense trying to argue with an illogical argument. How do you equate my self care with a medical license?
        Never mind. I was never one to. Intone banging my head against a brick wall…

      • “illogical argument”

        That’s what you say and what precisely most everyone will judge otherwise.

        Hey, you asked for it, and there it is. You can call it what you want, it is what it is, and you have no answer because, well, it is what it is.

      • If you were my patient……i would fire you. I’d let you back once you see why your neolithic thinking subjugates your paleolithic genes. Your personal character must match your professional one. Patients sense your BS meter if you do not practice what you preach. What is happening to Steve is wrong and it must be a rallying point whether you think you understand it or not. The system is fucked we all know and you dont appease it…….you fucking take it apart piece by piece no matter how hard they try to bust our balls. I am willing to go to battle with Rich and Steve. I bet there a lot of other out there who agree with me. We have to start the revolution somewhere. If this is how it begins……..I’m in.

      • Todd Watson says:

        For fucks sake. All this consensus requirements. I’m not religious, but there was a consensus on the Bible and people disagree with that. That only has to do with eternity and not this mortal coil. Do you really think we can have true consensus within the medical community? Isn’t it entirely possible doctors do not know everything and are basically learning as they go? I constantly read article after article of trials debunking what we know now to be true. I think I’ll take experimentation that has PROVEN results over a bunch of fucking quacks with piece of shit decoder ring Cracker Jack prizes. Thanks.

      • I guess it’s a good thing I’m not your patient then. For what its worth, I managed to get my HbA1C down from 16.1% to 6.1% in less than 3 months. 3 months later, I was down to 5%. I now hover aroun 6%, despite trying to control through paleo/Primal. Now, I am back to good control (at 5.1% – a non-diabetic level!) with the help of my endo. I don’t get spikes, don’t have to go on a diet of just fat, no fucking grain in sight – I just do one thing – I eat real food.

        You advocate a one-size fits all approach – diet and exercise – no drugs. Spine adjustments. So – you are not really better than a drug pushing doctor – you’re just not pushing drugs.

        Incidentally, the Endo that I respect (and keep in mind I don’t just automatically respect authority – you need EARN my respect) sums it up best. See, he is also a professor, an a researcher.

        “What’s the difference between God and a Doctor?”

        The answer?

        “God doesn’t think he’s a doctor!”

        Truer words were never said. Why be so one-sided in approach? Richard sums it up best – a multi-faceted approach is best. Try shit out – and learn from your mistakes.

      • You are THE baddest motherfucker I know.

      • ” Fuck any and all who stand in myway…” Very well said Richard.
        I am sick of all the govt bullshit. Get the fuck out of my life gummint! I don’t need or want the govts help. Govt license my ass! The same govt that approves statins, and a mariad of other drugs that can fucking kill you! I’d rather take my chances on the truck driver’s advice. I have gone into harm’s way to defend freedom only to come home and realize we are not free. When peopl can’t buy raw milk, butcher their own meat, have a milk cow co-op. we don’t even have the right to know about GMO’s in our food. That is not what I call freedom.

      • I hope you got a license to say that, Jasen.

      • You’re right Richard. I should have put out a disclaimer. Here goes. I am not a health care professional. My replies on this blog are my own persoal opinions and are not meant to be construed as medical advice by any means. If any individual wishes to seek the advice of those retards at the FDA or whatever alphabet soup agency, by all means go right the fuck ahead.

      • “Funny that you mention Dr. Bernstein. I admire him very much myself. However, he’s actually a proof of the medical system’s failure.”

        AMEN! I so agree on both counts. I’m a fan. :)

    • Dr. Bernstein is the wrong example to use as a poster child for the importance of getting certified. If you read his story, he’s very clear that he was surprised to find out that once he got his M.D. that he was STILL not listened to nor respected.

      I would argue that the ADA STILL wishes that he would just go away, but he’s been around too long, published too many great books and done too much incredible work to be ignored at this point.

      • I hear your argument – and raise you the fact that since he has his credentials, the ADA can only wish…

      • But Jason, this is only because of force.

        Is Dr. B more competent because he jumped through all the hoops?

        Huh? Huh? He knew—one of the first to know—what the fuck he was talking about _before_ he went to med school. Yea, now they can’t make him go away, but not because he’s wrong, but because he has an MD.

        They can’t make him go away and at root, it’s because he’s right, effective, and the MD is mere window dressing that tends to keep the riffraff from getting in his shit too often or too much.

        My God, my man, but are you ever backwards, 180 degree, on virtually all of this. I really hope you get a handle on it and fix it. Pay close attention to what Dr. Kurt and Dr. Jack are telling you.

    • I’m sorry people are going to hell and learning nothing in the process except how to send other people there, too.

  15. It’s not just in NC. There is pending legislation in several other states that would give ADA associated dietitians monopoly powers. (CA, NY, IN, NJ, CO, WV)

    http://www.anh-usa.org/american-dietetic-association-speeds-up-its-race-for-monopoly/

    • Be careful what you ask for.

      Perhaps it’s a good thing as these sorts of actions will only serve to highlight their incompetence.

    • I believe this is going on in VA right now as well – they are trying to pass a bill that would prevent any other practitioner from making any dietary recommendations. I have been notified of this b/c it may affect me as a physical therapist, and will certainly affect trainers and coaches.

  16. Great job, Steve. Re-confirms my “those fuckers are trying to poison me” approach to nutrition.

  17. LeonRover says:

    Mind you ADA is an acronym for a number of orgs.

    Wiki notes the following:

    Medicine

    American Dental Association
    American Diabetes Association
    American Dietetic Association
    American Dyslexia Association

    !!!!!!!!!

    So which fucker is trying to poison you?? If it’s eating it’s gotta be the Dentists, right??

    Slainte

  18. Contemplationist says:

    Richard

    Paleo and the mendacity of the agro-govt-medical-pjarma complex is the greatest gift to libertarians in ages but they are intent on instead proving that obesity has not been growing much or that its not a problem.

    • I’ve seen some of that, but not a whole lot, but maybe I’ve missed it. But yea, while I think the goal post have shifted over time making it look like more people are more obese than they really are, comparatively it’s hardly worth disputing that it’s not a huge problem getting huger.

      Besides that, while you can fudge with the numbers of what “obesity” means, you can’t with a clinical diagnosis of diabetes and it’s clear those rates have increased dramatically.

      • Keep in mind that the clinical definition of diabetes has changed over the last while as well. Part of the reason you can see some “skyrocketing” rates of diabetes is that change.

        Back in 1997, the threshold was a fasting rate of 7.8 MMOL (140) and a GTT 2 hour mark of 11.1 mmol (200.)

        Today, those values are a bit lower, preposed to be changed to 7.0 fasting, and a HbA1C value instead. If the range is in 7.0-7.8 mmol, you are considered impired fasting glucose, where they would order the HbA1C test to check.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1113665/

        It used to e way harder to diagnose also. Back in the day when I was younger, it was mostly done through urine. That’s how I was classified as “borderline” when I was probably in fact a diabetic. (By today’s standards.)

        Today we have blood tests, A1C tests, home checking meters, etc. That can also explain the “epidemic” of diabetes as much as the “epidemic” of obesity.

        It is almost like saying that since we didn’t see microscopic cancers 100 years ago, they didn’t exist. Hell yes they did – but people didn’t know what the fuck they were dying of, is all.

        Is there an epidemic of cancers? Sure, because we can classify it now.

  19. Gabriele says:

    Richard, you said ” Just as your average German bloke in a foot soldier’s uniform in the early 1940s loaded men, women and children into boxcars, cognizant of a certain destination and fate but nonetheless, chose not to listen to their own conscience”

    You don’t know SHIT about the German soldier. My father was one. He happened to fight in Russia. He said there were “whispers” in the trenches towards the END of the war about what was happening in concentration camps. If you were less ignorant you would understand more about dictatorships and totalitarian societies and you would know that one wrong WORD by any soldier was an immediate bullet to the brain. They didn’t have ANY chance to express “their conscience”. This is pretty basic history. And what in the HELL does any of this have to do with a story about diabetes?? I have stomached my way through a lot of your self-indulgent and arrogant posts but this one was the final straw.

    • Indeed, the propaganda machine did go as far as to cover a lot of aspects of the attrocities from the people of Germany. My Oma never could speak of what went on in the war – but I do know that she had an immense shame. No one can deny that the jewish people were legally stripped of their humanity, and you would have to be fucking retarded not to see it i the open. In fact, there are photos of little jewish children dying in the streets from lack of food, with “good German” citizen stnading by and doing nothing. Don’t give me any bullshit like people had no idea that what was going on was wrong… they certainly didn’t At the time, they though it was right.
      How does this equate to diabetes? Richard and crew are stating that just because a set of laws, or standards state something that legally has to be followed or else, doesn’t make it right. Fuck, that part is even in the bible. Take a look at the story of Daniel in the bible. Daniel went in the lions den because of what he believed in, legally. Was it right? Morally, no. Legally, sure.

      I just want to set the record straight here. I support the right to free speech. You have the right under the constitution to speak your mind. What I also want to point out, (and I CONSTANTLY hae to it seems,) is you also have the OBLIGATION to be responsible for your actions, UNLIKE in a fascist regime. For example, you have every right to call all diabetes educators stupid, usless shits… but you also have the obligation to answer for what you have said.

      You can’t just hide behind “free speech,” and leave it at that. Prove those people are dumb shits, and you aren’t just being an asshole. Can’t? Guess what, that’s defamation.

      Now, I want to point out something that I like about a site like Robb Wolf’s, or Mark Sisson’s site.
      While I know they buck the trend for conventional wisdom, they usually try and do it in a positive way. THey show what they are talking about with REFERENCES to ACTUAL SCIENCE. They abstain from silly name-calling like, “American Diabetes Ass.”

      If someone were to point at this site (or cooksey’s) and tell the world that you all were dangerous redneck roadkill-eating buffoons – then go to the ancestral symposiums and cause a ruckus, call you stupid, that your experience, (or data, or degree) is worthless, call you out on Facebook, Twitter, etc – we’d probably classify that as Cyberbullying – or defamation.

      You can have your free speech mes amigos… but you also have to pay for what you say. That in a nutshell, is what happened to Steve Cooksey. (At least, how I see it.)

      • Defamation is very difficult to prove and in most jurisdictions, requires not only demonstration of malice by using knowing false statements but the plaintiff has to demonstrate actual harm or damages.

        And the stating of an opinion and satire is not defamation.

      • If you have enough lawyer money backing you, and the other guy can’t afford to hire counsel, it doesn’t much matter what you can prove. The fight is over before it began, right?

      • That’s not how it works. Only people with enough money to defend usually get sued. Yea, sure, you can sue someone with no money, you might scare them, but it’s pointless because they likely have little to no voice and you’ll have a tough time proving real damages.

        No one should ever be intimidated by a law suit. My standard practice is on the original lawyer letter to employ my Sharpee with a big Go Fuck Yourself, faxed back to the mail office number.

        Works every time,

      • From what I understand, Steve is also being threatened with an injunction. So, in this case, even if there is no money or damages to be gained, the plaintiffs can “gain” by successfully ending the action which prompted their litigation, ie. Steve’s blogging.

      • Won’t happen. They may be able to get an injunction against him doing very explicitly outlined things, but judges don’t like to get things suffed in their face, so any injunction would be very easy to work around becaue it would be so specific and detailed. And then, it would be up to plaintiff to attempt to show that he violated it. Courts do not police injunctions,

    • Gabriele

      My dad and his family immigrated to the US after the war. He was about 15. This was after his mom spent three years after the war trying to get him back from E Germany because he was visiting his grandparents during the war when travel back was shut down. When she finally did get him back, he had to go to a special home for a while for malnourished kids. He tells stories about how after the war they basically had to raid garbage cans and potato fields to get some food.

      My grandfather was a soldier, though prior to the war. I heard stories about it all my life and the attitude many of them had to the rise of Hitler.

      Of course, when I refer to the average foot soldier who did what they did, I’m talking about those who did, and many did know, or have a very good idea, as there were other soldiers in those very same concentration camps and it’s a secret too big to keep. This was of course a small subset of the whole, as the majority had nothing to do with it, if that wasn’t clear enough by implication.

  20. It’s posts like this that would make buying and never reading your book worth every cent.

  21. Richard, I like most of your posts, but when you throw your weight behind otherwise defenseless people as in this case, you are truly doing God’s work. (No offense intended with the religious reference.) :-)

    By the way, a note to Steve: under no circumstances get certified as a dietitian in North Carolina. Then they will own you.

    I don’t believe they have the power to discipline you as a private citizen talking about what helped you lose weight. That will change if you actually get licensed by the state. Don’t do it!

    • “but when you throw your weight behind otherwise defenseless people as in this case, you are truly doing God’s work. (No offense intended with the religious reference.)”

      No offense taken. Quite the contrary. It’s a powerful metaphor that should never be tossed around.

      Thank you, sir. Least I could do for a friend & fellow warrior.

  22. Also for Steve,… Why didn’t you call a few of North Carolina’s major newspapers and see if they’re interested in this story.(It’s hard to imagine that they would not be.) Your story is pretty astounding and it would be powerful to have a local profile of how you’re you gotten so much healthier by ignoring the advice of the local dietitians.

    If you have that newspaper article – with your incredible before and after pictures – in your back pocket, it’s hard to imagine they would have the balls to keep crucifying you.

    • Great advice Bob.

      I am trying to keep my big mouth shut until I have a formal arrangement with an attorney.

      From all indications… I should have a law firm the first of next week and a battle plan will be written.

      I expect to carry the battle to the enemy. :)

  23. If anything should make one wary of having the government in charge of “health care” than this story should.

  24. One last note to Steve:

    Actually, your local TV stations are an even better way to break the story. Your before and after pictures alone will make them want to do it, yet it’s also such a huge tie-in with the exploding obesity and diabetes epidemics in your state.

    But the story is even better for TV because it also has built-in bad guys in the form of an army of dietitians whose patients keep getting sicker and sicker.

    Don’t be distracted by their saber-rattling over legal enforcement – what they’re REALLY concerned about is your getting the attention of the North Carolina public.

    In my opinion, you want to make the dietitians feel like they made a gigantic mistake by fucking with you…that by trying to suppress your voice, they actually handed you a megaphone, and that there is now a legitimate public inquiry into why the dietitians are actually making people WORSE.

  25. One last comment to Steve and then I’ll shut up:

    The thing about publicity is that it will protect you against enforcement – no DA will dare file charges against you if he knows he’s going to wind up the focus of a follow-up report on how the government is harassing ordinary North Carolina citizens.

    (But if you DON’T do publicity, they can safely fuck with you however they want.)

  26. Just looked at Steve’s site and noticed the NCBDN logo. It depicts the state of North Carolina and what looks like a stalk of wheat. I’m guessing they mean for it to represent food. And therein lies the problem…

    • Imo the Whole Grain people should have to eat stalks of wheat … put up or shut up … you want to eat Whole Grains, here are some stalks of wheat to chew on.

      “But I meant whole grains that have been processed and converted into bread or pasta ….”

      That’s not Whole Grain, either eat the stalks of wheat or STFU. If you can’t force yourself to eat 200 grams of stalks of wheat then I don’t want to hear another word about Whole Grain.

  27. Ooh, ooh (raises hand from the back of the room): I just found out yesterday that my proposal for a poster presentation was accepted for AHS12….the topic? The Effects of A Paleo Lifestyle on Type 1 Diabetes. My husband’s story was initially published on Robb’s blog http://bit.ly/wbYQ77
    He was diagnosed with diabetes at age 32 from an autoimmune attack on his pancreas. His story talks about all of the above points. For my poster presentation, I am using data from his insulin pump and CGM, as well as lab test results to show his numbers before and after Paleo. There is no emotion in that – it’s just facts, as the numbers don’t lie. (Again, N=1, well maybe N=2 as I have a second T1D with data to share). I am really excited about this, and hope everyone will come over to say hi during the presentation. And Richard, I want a big bear hug from you when I meet you ;)

    • Hearty congratulations to you Ann. That’s just great. We’ll see you in Boston!

      • As Ann mentioned I am a type 1 diabetic and this story is 100% right on the mark. I couldn’t agree more about dietitians and how they are just clueless when it comes to eating healthy. I saw a dietitian once and only once with their rubber food to show portion sizes sitting on their desk!
        If you are skeptical about the Paleo lifestyle read Robb Wolf’s book The Paleo Solution, there is plenty of science behind why eating like this works so you don’t have to feel like you are taking advise from a “truck driver” and you can feel good about avoiding the over weight dietitian.

      • Ann I have close to ten type one’s who are no longer diabetic…….and all I did was change their diet and treat their spine conservatively. One happens to by a doc. To say Type one’s can be cured it just not true. Its uncommon today but tomorrow it may become very common. And before Jason pipes up……..the doc was born a type one too. His own foray here opened his eyes big time.

      • So Jack, you have cured them? By treating their spine.
        So, they can go and eat whatever they want? For instance, can they go and eat a bowl of ice cream? How about a glass of orange juice? Perhaps a big ol bowl of rice?
        That’s what “Cure” means. Have you managed to do this yet? I am eager to know, since I will pass your “discovery” over to the Diabetes Community, who will eagerly shower you with the accolades that you deserve. We have been waiting for a “cure” for decades.

        I suspect you are talking about management of diabetes through diet and exercise. True, some T1D have a bit of pancreatic function left. They go through a honeymoon phase. I am still in mine. I plan to preserve my function as long as I can, so I DON’T need to take a shitload of drugs.

        I know some diabetics that need to take upwards of 100 units of insulin for a meal. I need to take a max of 8 (for a heavy carb meal, which is RARE.)

        Anyway, I am eager to see this “cure” you are talking about. Otherwise, you have kind of proved to me the need for licensing. You may need to be more careful with your wording…

      • I believe Dr. Kruse is indeed licensed.

        You’re a bit of a crank, Jason. Why not give it a rest.

      • Thanks for beating me to the punch, Eddie.

        Indeed, licensing should have magically caused Jack to write “well managed” instead of “cured,” and certainly not allowed him to use a rather colloquial expression in a non-clinical setting where everyone kinda knows what he means.

        Viva the licensing!

      • LOL

        I’m all for egalitarianism, but a cook pulling rank on a neurosurgeon is pushing it.

        BTW, Richard, congrats on the Taleb review. I have this image of you at the end of a life well-lived, looking back on love given and gotten, windmills tilted at, and the fact that you were one of the only men alive ever 5-starred by Taleb.

        I think you’ll be smiling. Maybe shaking your head a bit in amazement, but smiling nonetheless.

      • Oh? And give up the right to free speech? Why should I give it a rest? I am only trying to back up another point – you know, debate a little.

      • Well I see Jason beat me to it about Jack curing T1’s! Jack don’t misunderstand Ann she is not saying anything about curing people with T1. She is simply saying that T1’s can reduce their dependency on insulin by following a Paleo Lifestyle. I am sure of this since I am the T1 diabetic she is talking about.

        On another note type 1 diabetics will take you to the cleaners if you use the word cure at this moment in time. If the individuals are type 2 then it is very possible they can get rid of all signs of diabetes. Since T1’s don’t produce insulin a cure would have to involve some type of Islet cell transplant and immune system suppression to prevent the body from killing of the Islet cells again.
        So please don’t use the word cure when talking about T1’s as you will lose all credibility.

      • Dave – AMEN.
        Richard – understand, I still think you’re the bomb. I still respect you. As a diabetic with Type 1 (That I lives without knowing for almost 20 years!) I have to disagree with your points.
        I still think the overall message is good though – N=1 Fuck Yah! I also have almost no respect for the medical community as a whole. (Part of my panic disorder LOL. I can’t believe what they say when they tell me I’m fine – how’s that?)

        I am simply trying to give you an insight on what is going on from a perspective of someone who has worked closely with clinicians. Where thu are coming from.
        My goal is to havenBOTH sides come to a consensus. At the root, most people in those positions REALLY want to help, they have their training that is holding them back. Training funded by Big Agra, and Big Pharma. Most Endos know this, and agree with what we have going on here. Indeed, behind closed doors they tell you do keep doing what you are doing.
        That’s because they DON’T have the “benefit” of nutritional training.
        I think in order for things to change, we need to work with these people, (nutritionists,) not fight them.

      • I don’t begrudge you your goals and methods at all. In fact, Jason, I encourage you to do the best you can with as much self guidance as possible.

        Same thing I wish for everyone, including those who want to seek advice from Steve Cooksey or anyone else,

        In case I missed where you were willing to stand up for that same freedom for all, and to all, then I’m sorry.

      • Well, I read Robb Wolf’s book, Mark Sisson’s Book, DeVaney’s book, Easdes’ books, Dr Bernstein’s books, etc. I agree, dieticians aren’t aware of the protocol, again, because of lack of clinical trials…
        As for overweight deiticians, again, not sure what they are like down there… but after all the ones I have worked with, I think maybe three have been overweight. (I have personally worked with over 20 between my role as a chef, and in metabolic centers.) Most of them are skinny, almost anorexic.

      • “dieticians aren’t aware of the protocol, again, because of lack of clinical trials…”

        Laughable unmitigated bullshit. Aware is irrelevant. Resistance is key, because they are largely dishonest whore drones who do the bidding of those who sign their paychecks.

        You can be as naive as you want to appear, Jason.

      • 2.5 million years of evolutionary RCT trumps any neolithic trial you can prop up. That study has been done and moving from a mammal under the ice to a human is pretty freaking remarkable. I do not need anyone to tell me evolutionary medicine is trumped by any published research that is tainted with blood money.

      • HELL YES!!! … I hear that BS often… “no clinical trials’.

        If paleo was a drug Big Pharma could sell…we’d all be eating grass fed beef.

        Willfully Ignorant, Intellectual Laziness or greed???

  28. Wow. That was a great article and I was all ready to tweet it up, post it on my blog, and send a copy to my state legislators who want to keep anyone but a registered dietian from giving nutrition advice. But when you seemed to advocate shooting people you totally lost my support. Don’t go all “pro-life” on us and incite people to violence! We have seen that some unbalanced people can take those invitations and commit real murder.

  29. I’m going to repeat what I wrote up there^^^ somewhere.

    What if one person’s freedom takes away another person’s freedom? e.g. one person’s freedom to smoke in a public place takes away the adjacent person’s freedom to not breathe smoky air. What do you do? Is the negative freedom more important than the positive one? Should it be decided by majority rule?

    I’m in favour of regulation when it results in higher standards, and stops people from harming other people.

    • Nigel,

      I am confused. Are you talking about the freedom of an obese , Type 2 Diabetics with a blown pancreases to teach diabetics to eat a high carb, grain based meal plan like she has followed for 22 years? Virtually assuring the patients will consume more and more drugs and insulin???

      Or were you referring to me?

      • No Steve. I meant exactly what I wrote. I wasn’t referring to you. It’s a question about freedom.
        If person A’s freedom negates person B’s freedom (I used smokers as an example), what does one do?

        In the UK, a ban on smoking in public places was introduced a few years ago. I was in favour of the ban as I am a non-smoker and I frequent public houses for the purposes of singing karaoke. Prior to the ban, smokers (the minority) denied me & other non-smokers (the majority) the freedom to breathe non-smoky air.

        Should we live in an anarchic free-for-all where the strongest (or the one with the biggest gun) rules?

      • Nigel:

        So is your stand a principled one, i.e., nobody ought have the right to impose upon another, or simply that you have a bigger mob of people behind you, so you get to decide (making your last point a bit ironic)?

        If the former, they how about when you turn on your house lights or porch light in the middle of the night and send photons into your neighbor’s bedroom who are fast asleep and may be disturbed?

      • Steve Wilson says:

        My neighbour sleeps in his living room some nights and keeps a table lamp switched on .. ::drum roll:: .. He uses photons and a futon

      • My stand is that I don’t want to live in an anarchy where the piss-takers are free to take advantage of the meek.

        Another example: A company pollutes the water supply in such a way that it’s not toxic but it’s unpleasant to drink. Without enforced standards, who takes the company to task?

      • You’re begging the question. All existing water pollution was done under the existence of the state.

      • At present, if a company pollutes, what does the state do?
        What would happen if a company pollutes and there wasn’t a state?

      • Hopefully go out of business or be so punished by paying customers they change their ways.

        For sure, there would be no government, too big to fail, bailout program.

      • Hopefully. Sadly, the world is full of assholes & asshole companies who/that are free to make peoples lives a misery and get away with it.

        I think that anarchy makes the world a worse place to live in.

      • “companies who/that are free to make peoples lives a misery and get away with it.”

        And the state is nothing but bliss. I hate it how compaies bust down your doors and take you money under threat of arrest and prosecution while the government simply offers products and services you choose to buy or not.

      • “I frequent public houses”

        Sorry, I guess I missunderstood. I was referring to privately owned pubs and restaurants and was unaware that such a thing doesn’t exist anymore.

      • I went all posh on you. I meant privately owned pubs. Pre-ban, I had a choice. Put up with the smoke or don’t sing karaoke. Post-ban, smokers are still free to smoke – outside.

        If you’re in a really good restaurant (that you wouldn’t want to leave), someone sitting at the next table starts to smoke and the smoke drifts your way, what do you do?

      • You exercise your values, of course, which means you determine for yourself what’s worth more to you, the restaurant as is, or not having smoke drift your way.

        What you don’t do is impose your values on the owner of the restaurant to favor your values over others when that’s not his or her wish.

      • In all honesty – if you are in a “posh” restaurant, and someone lights up beside you – they are a fucking bore.

        Go outside, and let other people enjoy the food for fuck sakes. Don’t ruin my experience because you’re an asshole and “need” to smoke.

        That’s not my value – that’s just what’s right.

        Otherwise, go to the truck stops or bars that still allow you to smoke, and order there.

        On another note, it begs the question:

        If the state cannot mandate whether the owner allows smoking in the establishment, what’s to stop them from providing a place for people to safely do their cocaine, shoot heroin, etc?

        Before you state the law – remember that I am making a general point. I find that a lot of people who advocate for smoking in food establishments would be dead set against a safe needle injection site.

        The funny thing is, at the core, both are drugs – even if one is legal, one is not.

      • Sorry – I need to clarify my wording, (I do love the iPhone)

        I meant what’s to stop the owner from allowing a safe needle injection space in their establishment – not how it’s worded (the government.)

      • “If the state cannot mandate whether the owner allows smoking in the establishment, what’s to stop them from providing a place for people to safely do their cocaine, shoot heroin, etc?”

        In the first place, it’s not a valid comparison because cocaine and heroin are proscribed by law and smoking tobacco isn’t. In the second place, I’m not in favor of those laws either. In the third place, if those activities weren’t proscribed, then it’s back to the same place. Owner decides what he permits in his own establishment, you weigh your values against that, and choose accordingly whether to go there or not.

        It’s no different than weighing your values against you assessment of the quality of the food, service and prices charged and doing accordingly.

        This is simple shit a 5yr old ought to be able to understand. Probably, most do, actually.

      • “that’s just what’s right” Who says, You? If I own a dining establishment and want to alow my customers to smoke who is the govt to step in and say I can’t? You as a paying customer are perfectly free to dine elsewhere. To me there is nothing finer than coffee, cognac and a good smoke after dinner. But thanks to these anti tobacco charlie sierras I am denied that pleasure.

      • You are free to pollute your own air in your own home. Why should you be free to pollute the air of others?
        I bet that there are “underground” dining establishments where you can smoke. Use those.

      • I don’t draw meaningless distinctions between property we refer to as a home and property we refer to as a business.

      • You haven’t addressed the issue sir. Why is a business owner not free to allow smoking in HIS establishment?

      • Honestly – as an owner, I wouldn’t have smoking in my establishment – people can go outside. I don’t want to wreck the experience for my customers because some guy wants to have a cigarette at the next table.

        In a bar, or lounge, it’s a different story – I can see where it’s allowed. In fact, up here there are a few lounges that support smoking, despite the anti-smoking laws.

        The funny thing is, 5 years ago people screamed bloody murder about the smoking bans. Guess what? The business has actually gone up, not down – because non-smokers know they don’t have to suffer from people’s second hand smoke when they are trying to enjoy an evening out.

      • This is precisely why I rarely dine in restaurants or frequent pubs! I do not wish to have “controlled” fun. At my house we eat very well. Better than the food at most restaurants anyway. My house is always the party house. We have plenty of good food, good beer and wine , good music and most of us smoke. We always have a full house and nobody gets their panties in a knot. So to all the little bitches please go to your no smoking establishments and fuck off!

      • “The funny thing is, 5 years ago people screamed bloody murder about the smoking bans. Guess what? The business has actually gone up, not down – because non-smokers know they don’t have to suffer from people’s second hand smoke when they are trying to enjoy an evening out.”

        Then it stands to reason that business owners would have over time recognized that in most instances, their own smoking bans (as many had already done) would keep business rather then send it to their non-smoking competitors.

        Kind of like any other competitive aspect of business.

        Conversely, business for smoking establishments might have improved as well, as the smokers had a place to go as well.

      • Absolutely. You hit it in a nutshell. Now, the thing is, the owners of the establishments tried, (in vain,) to get the laws appealed because they were afraid they would lose their shirts.

        Instead, the opposite happened. Business went up., The problem they had stemmed from them not realizing that actually having an establishment that allowed smoking (as all did,) was actually hurting their business, but was the status quo. Irony at it’s best.

      • It’s no different than anything else, like finding that upping your quality of sources and thus decreasing your margins, at least initially might help, it might hurt, so you just have to try it.

        There’s no doubt that some establishments, owing to demographics/customer base were hurt by the ban and many have gone out of business,

      • Since I as a smoker am in the minority will just concede and STFU. Let me just say, that today it’s cigarettes, What will it be tomorrow? What will happen when your favorite pecadillo gets banned? After all Big Govt knows best! They just want to protect you!

  30. Have you considered contacting the Institute for Justice for help? The IJ is a Libertarian public interest law group dedicated to taking on cases like yours. They fight against over regulation and for free speech. Your case might be of interest to them. http://www.ij.org/

  31. Steve Wilson says:

    I’m really glad to see this post Richard, thanks for airing an important issue. I happen to be in agreement with Jason Sandeman on this however, because the real reason the ‘authorities’ were brought in has slipped under the radar here and nearly everywhere else. That being: Steve Cooksey was advertising his services in preparation for CHARGING people for his ‘expertise’. No-one said they would stop his blog, no-one threatened to send him to jail for telling his story. He decided to add a page soliciting money from people for monetary gain. He wanted PAYMENT as a medical advisor or some such. Fuck that. That is where Steve lost my sympathy, and for touting it as if it was about freedom of speech when it was him aiming to procure ca$h that brought the NCBDN wading in. They tread very gently and politely by the way, read their advice to Steve. They weren’t nasty at all. As for Steve, I like his blog. I do not like that he would try to charge people for information that is freely available elsewhere and expect the gubmint to ignore it. I’m also a Type1 diabetic following Dr. Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution.

    • Yea, far be it from Steve to earn a living off his expertise. Especially if he hasn’t been granted Sooper Pow3rz through the magic of government licensing to do so.

      To bad for all the folks who may have wanted to pay Steve to take his time with them.

      Congratulations! You get to impose your values on them. What a coup!

      • Steve Wilson says:

        The only coup here is borne from Steve Cooksey’s misrepresentation of the issues the NCBDN contacted him regarding. I’ve seen other blogs and comments where people did not realise there was a money issue or that he’d removed pages from his site asking for payment. That isn’t entirely his fault, but it is important, and he’s been happy to brush it under the carpet. Only those prepared to read the pdf’s on his site would know. Plenty haven’t bothered. He can still have his blog -that was never the issue and Steve was disingenuous to allow the view that it was all about free speech to gain momentum. I’m not imposing my values on anyone. I’ll tell people my opinion. Whether they listen or not? I don’t care a shit. Nor do I charge people for my ‘expertise’ which would be at the very least as complete and competent as Mr Cooksey’s. Maybe I should start, there’s a lot of Paleo cheerleaders ready to woop and holler….. No. I find it crass and greedy. It might exceed my carb limit.

      • Steve:

        Thanks for the opportunity to be explicit:

        I’d like to see Steve make millions from what he’s been able to accomplish and guide others to do likewise.

      • Wow… I am just not used to being making things up and reporting them as fact.
        …what’s the word for that? Oh yes… a bold face liar.

        Steve was spreading the same

        Quoting Steve Wilson “‘Follow the money!’. Steve wanted renumeration for his services, so the authorities told him to take those pages down. Which he did before most of us, subsequently, heard the story.”

        Steve… either you have difficulty ‘reading for comprehension’ or have not read the post.

        If you read this, my first post … http://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2012/01/28/this-site-free-speech-are-being-investigated/ you would know that I mentioned the fee for services.

        I was not brushing it under the rug, I was not hiding it… if you can not see it then you can not read… or have difficulty comprehending what you read.

        Also if you read the attached official review..which was linked to in the first post… . http://www.diabetes-warrior.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Website_Review_Cooksey_Jan._2012.pdf

        You would know that… of the approximately 20-25 comments only about five addressed the ‘support package page’. The rest were statements that I was giving advice and counseling without a license.

        ___________

        RE: Charging for services… as I have mentioned in the post, the ‘earnings’ were meager… very meager. And I only had it there as an option in case people wanted it.

        Most people do not know I do it… because I never pushed it, never mentioned it.

      • It’s weird the resistance you are getting here from a couple of T1s Steve. Near as I can tell, they simply resent the fact that you were so diligent and figured management out so quickly. Who knows?

      • Yah, I guess that’s it. I’m jealous, I guess.
        For the record, I only wanted to point out what went wrong – not thy message wasn’t good. Thing is, sometimes it isn’t what you are saying, but how it comes across. I know this; I’ve been dealing with it my whole life.
        For the most part, I am a very standoffish person. If you want me to do what you are talking about, you have to convince me – and with something less than bullshit talk. You gotta hbe results, see?
        Now, for sure Steve has results with himself. The picture is plain – no arguments there.
        My endo also treats my wife for thyroid. Know what? We have him to thank for the blessing of our child after no less than 5 misscarriages. He EARNED my respect through his results. First hand.
        The only time I get onery is when I see misinformation out there. You’re fucking rights I’m gonna speak out when someone talks about a “cure” when they are really talking about a treatment plan. I’m just simply calling bullshit, that’s all.
        Because I take insulin to live? That doesn’t make me any less than most other people. The only difference is I DON’T get to take a day off this disease. Neither does Bernstein for that matter. If you look through his book, it’s full of information on how to deal with hypos, and other emergency situations.
        That is the reality of Type 1. We don’t have a fucking choice. Trust me Richard, I don’t want to take this shit. I tried not to – I tried managing the sugars on my own, and burned my pancreas even further – I still have function left – but barely. I an following Bernstein’s protocol of taking small amounts of insulin to preserve my pancreatic function.
        That’s important to me – because I’m after hearing all the time about people who go to sleep and don’t wake up do to hypos. The more insulin a person takes – that’s a possibility.
        So, when someone talks about “curing” Type 1 through diet alone – I do speak up – because I’m advocating for the disease. To me, it’s better to do a combination therapy. Low carb + insulin therapy to preserve pancreatic function. The best of both worlds, as it were.

        Finally, forgive me, I’m just trying to debate a bit. The other side a bit. I saw jack say I was being annoying (Twitter feed) but its not my intention at all. My point is just to show a bit of the other side, I’d all.

      • I hate the auto-correct on my iPhone. I am not an illiterate bastard. I swear.

      • I don’t think anyone has begrudged you your experience, Jason. It’s you how begrudge that anyone can figure out something you haven’t.

        In not diabetic and thus, have no idea whether or not I’d trust Steve to advise me, but I think the same way about anyone, white coat or not.

        Everyone is on their own, nobody gets out of here alive,

      • I have felt the resentment before… no worries. :)

        I hesitate to mention it here… because it will muddy the water. In the diabetic community T1s and T2’s often don’t play well together.

        T1’s assume they know more about diabetes than T2s (generally true)… and that all T2s are all ‘Paula Deens’ (generally true).

        I have MANY T1 friends who eat a paleo style meal plan and reap the benefits. There were at least three on my blog in the ‘paleo stories’ tab.

        Bottom line: “Carb up and Shoot Up” makes blood sugar control much more difficult and blood sugar control is THE key.

        I spoke to a plastic surgeon today … a father of two T1s’.

      • … to complete the thought… the plastic surgeon and his family, including the two T1 children are on a paleo style meal plan.

    • Todd Watson says:

      So, I guess Richard shouldn’t sell his book, because doesn’t have his bonafides. It’s ok for Suzanne Somers to put out a diet and fitness book without credentials, but it’s not ok for Steve to give alternative recommendations based on his knowledge on the topic. I see the logic there. Celebrities hold more sway on health than someone who is openly researching it. Makes perfect sense to me.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        I don’t know the legalities of books online or otherwise. [Lawyers please chime in…] Books tend to be cheaper and aren’t targeted at individual buyers (apart from a dedication in the opening few pages, maybe). Charging a premium for tailored, individual advice is different. Steve Cooksey was soliciting to advise on individual clients health, not which jumper to wear, which car to buy, what movie to watch, or how they should decorate their living room.

      • Steve:

        How much have the comment thread have you read?

        …Because, two people I’m sure you’re aware of—Dr. Jack Kruse and Dr. Kurt Harris—don’t seem to share your view. In fact, as I read them, they think licensing is generally bullshit and they seem to be in Steve’s corner.

        So they have opinions too. They’re individuals too. What I wonder is where you’re coming from. It’s particularly funny that you focus on money, and not actual sound advice. That’s basically what the establishment does, so there’s that. At least you’re in good company.

        Oh, hilarious BTW, how you showed those colors in the first post. Steve was A-OK, but then he had the audacity to actually ask for a bit of money for his time & effort.

        Dontcha hate it when people want to make a living pursuing what they are the most passionate about?

      • Todd Watson says:

        “Dontcha hate it when people want to make a living pursuing what they are the most passionate about?”

        All this opposition to someone doing just that makes me wonder how I’m still living in the land of opportunity. Land of the free and home of the brave, indeed.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        I live in England. We have a National Health Service. They don’t charge me either. We prefer to tend to the sick and infirm over here.

        As regards your obsession with Suzanne Somers, you should sign up to her fan club for updates.

        As regards credentials, I don’t make the law and both of your examples [in my unaccredited opinion] would make the world a shitter place. Lucky only one of them is happening, although the laissez-faire would welcome both and help the beneficiaries count their gold.
        Over time people could pay in tin foil or shiny pebbles, why have something as stifling and establishment as recognisable monetary units? On whose authority? If people get ripped off with wood coins daubed in gold coloured paint, more fool them! The gullible idiots deserve to be cheated! Yeah right.

      • Todd Watson says:

        “As regards your obsession with Suzanne Somers”

        You (I hope deliberately) missed me saying I have no particular issue with her. But I’m going to assume your way of ending an argument is to call someone obsessed. I used her as an example to compare and contrast. You, unfortunately, missed that point.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        No. I chose to make light of it.

      • “We prefer to tend to the sick and infirm over here.”

        Yea, Google bed sores in England, sometime.

        Ignorance is bliss.

      • “would make the world a shitter place”

        What Steve really means is that things would be more uncomfortable for Steve.

      • “the laissez-faire would welcome both and help the beneficiaries count their gold”

        See laissez-fair equates to gold. But see, Steve has his position solidified. He doesn’t want anybody out ther laissez fair-ing. He’ll tell you it’s for the common good but really, it’s only because he’s satisfied and please don’t rock the boat.

        What a fucking wanker. Keep posting Steve. People will be rolling on the floor soon about how pathetic you are.

      • “have something as stifling and establishment as recognisable monetary units? On whose authority? If people get ripped off with wood coins daubed in gold coloured paint, more fool them! The gullible idiots deserve to be cheated! Yeah right.”

        Not a fan of evolution, I see. Not willing for someone to take a lesson or two, be the wiser for it, maybe learn from it, maybe if enterprise off it,

        Nope, King Steve has everyone’s best interest at heart.

        He just wants to help you, you see,

      • Two Words: Codex Alimentarius

        Tell me again what justification you have, as an ennobled European, to judge the US on ANYTHING, when you allow the state to dictate WHAT you eat, HOW you eat, and WHO can even tell you the “truth”.

        Like telling someone with scurvy to eat oranges, lemons, or limes.

        Limeys don’t make much sense to us micks, I admit, but WTF?

        (Native US born of “mick” stock)

      • In case that wasn’t clearly tied in, it’s directed to Steve Wilson // Feb 2, 2012 at 14:42

        I see the NWO has a useful idiot, that’s all…. :-P

      • Steve Wilson says:

        I don’t allow anyone to tell me what to eat or how to behave. I decide for myself. I never judged anyone, not even you – until I read your juvenile scrawl. You’re an idiot born of the Irish dregs that left and invariably ended up joining the NY Police force. US “mick” stock is weak as pish and dumber than all the stereotypes. You’re a disgrace to the Starry Plough. Keep chewing them corndogs, eejit.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        Wrong again. If I was satisfied with my lot I wouldn’t be anti-establishment. I do believe in evolution unlike many of your countryfolk and I rail against all religion, even the twee fluffy ones. I enjoy living in a secular society, there’s no ‘bible-belt’ here, you’d need to travel to the good ole US of Stateside to see that.

        ‘King Steve’ – I like it, of course I’d have to behead myself being anti-monarchy.. but sometimes you’ve got to kick it ’til it breaks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKDFop0aqYQ

      • Oh, I see you didn’t correct how I set you up to look ignorant for those very few who know the actual history of money.

        Well, then, I guess I know who I’m dealing with, bluster notwithstanding.

      • Oh, and Steve, nice appeal to the masses, painting 300 million with the same brush.

        But perhaps you’re just resentful that so many thousands of Britain’s best minds came here even after the first boat left. Most of the rest of them simply invested, as GB individuals are the largest international sector of private investment in the US, at least last time I checked.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        Oh I saw it, but given Jeans posts I chose to address their drivel first, still not sure if they’re a ‘female of indeterminate species’ or a bloke with a woman’s name?

        Then I ignored that bit of your inference because I presumed by making it that you knew the history of money already. I do too- I don’t think that it’s a privileged cult of knowledge, maybe in America. Besides I was trying not to invoke Jeans wrath against the Bildebergs .. and now you’ve gone and done it ;oD

      • “but given Jeans posts I chose to address their drivel first, still not sure if they’re a ‘female of indeterminate species’ or a bloke with a woman’s name?”

        And, you are dismissed.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        I seriously don’t know if Jean is male or female, Irish with French name or whatever. Not that I care much.

        Besides, I’m not appealing to the masses (cue joke about the peasants revolting etc.) this is your blog not mine. I’ve yet to meet an American Irish who knew a modicum of their history. They barely know their own songs or how to drink, its actually a real shame. I mean that, history is important.

        The best minds of the world are internationalists because they know money crosses borders without a problem and they go where it is, no ties to anywhere except sometimes nostalgia for where they grew up. No I’m not resentful, lots of Brits are savvy with their money. Good luck to them. China doesn’t own our national debt, but if you sink we’ll be fucked as well. I hope it doesn’t come to that.

      • Steve:

        My problem is that the UK is nothing like the country of your grandfathers and great grandfathers who stood up in the late 30’s and put it on the line.

        You’re now the most surveilled country in history, on the urban, on the roads, and Brits sit down for it and then makes cracks about “the Bible belt” and for all their ignorance and faults, they’d put their lives on the line for that sort of State snooping,

        Say what you want, think what you want and this pertains to no individual in particular, but America got the best of you a long time ago, and I don’t mean the war against George.

      • Wow, I was a caustic ass, you drove over the cliff with a bulldozer. ;-) (As far as that goes, I like it. No such thing as overkill…)

        Disgrace to the Starry Plough? Well, in terms of not being Catholic any more, I’ll concede that; in terms of not being “Irish”, I don’t really care. Born American.

        As for who left – NOW you’re getting into hot water. Are you bty any chance WELSH? ya know, ORANGE? The “dregs” were a social construct of CATHOLICS. Northern Ireland was forcibly settled by the Crown with WELSH who were LOYAL to the Crown. And until VERY recently, those smug little shites were STILL marching and commemorating days they killed Catholics. Marching and celebrating in CATHOLIC TOWNS. WTF, are you simple? Over here, we call that LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. :-P

        So, be careful on that trope – the “dregs” were farmers of a sort, with a few square feet to plant, due to intentional MIS-MANAGEMENT and government programs to destroy the Catholic religion. I tried googling for images, but didn’t find anything useful (all modern pics and documentation, basically.) However, here’s an exceprt:
        Many landlords, desperate for cash income, now wanted to grow wheat or graze cattle and sheep on their estates. But they were prevented from doing so by the scores of tiny potato plots and dilapidated huts belonging to penniless tenants who had not paid rent for months, if not years. To save their estates from ruin, the paupers would simply have to go.

        (http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/hunger.htm)

        See the whole set of pages, a quick skimming is adequate: http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/
        Note the “before the famine” page, where Ireland was folded into the UK forcibly, and the hunger page referenced, and look for how the Catholic farmer’s farms were split up among all inheritors (sons), reducing any and all farms to subsistence level.

        I’m pointing out that unless you consider CATHOLICS to be the “dregs”, the term is mis-placed – ALL had to leave, basically. (And Ireland was fairly backwards by our standards, as they didn’t have money in some areas. However, Ireland was EXPORTING food at the same time. TO ENGLAND.)

        Also of note, my family got here two generations ago, not during the famine or the time of the civil war here. Again, unless you count Catholics as the “dregs of society”, doesn’t apply to me.

        As to being weak, well – Not the strongest, no. Pathetic, by my estimation. My target would be more http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com. Can’t even get NEAR those numbers, but I can go all day. 4 hours? TOO EASY, DRILL SERGEANT! ;-)
        And dumber, no. Probably more intelligent than most of the population – More’s the pity. Performance Engineer, meaning I make computer systems like Ebay or Amazon work faster and better. Hits web servers, databases, applications, network appliances, software, hardware, etc.

        And PLEASE, for your own safety, do NOT compare me to the NYPD. I am NOT an ape. :-P

        (Not part of the Bible Belt here… That would be HELL for me.)

        And I wouldn’t pick on corndogs, given your “fish and chips” slop. ;-)

      • Steve Wilson says:

        Hahaa that’s great. I appreciate your sense of humour. I’m not Orange, don’t like their sort. I’m actually a Geordie, from the Toon. We’re the maddest of the English and with the best dialect – no received pronunciation here! Foreign visitors may require a translator :oD

      • “We prefer to tend to the sick and infirm over here”. As long as they’re economicaly viable right?

      • Steve Wilson says:

        No. I get all my prescriptions and blood testing strips for free. Even if the prescription is not related to diabetes. I’m not ‘economically viable’, I’m diabetic.

      • Steve Wilson says:

        Are Dr. Kurt Harris and Dr. Jack Kruse consulting Diabetes-Warrior for health advice? No. Too expensive probably. He could groom my pets or cut hair though. His advice is sound, but it’s not his, it was gleaned off the backs of others. Most notably Dr Richard K. Bernstein.
        As a type1 I know more about diabeetuz than you will ever know, but that’s because it’s in my interest to. It’s my passion. I don’t charge myself for that so wouldn’t charge others either. Kurt makes a salient point: “anyone who is a fraud could take his chances with the gullible, who always take bad advice despite the government’s best efforts anyways.”

        A world without licensing is a world where there is no redress for those in ill health. No redress for those given bad advice by bankers or doctors or self-appointed health gurus. You are wrong in your suppositions about me Richard, I’m staunchly anti-establishment with a very important caveat – I won’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

      • “His advice is sound, but it’s not his, it was gleaned off the backs of others. Most notably Dr Richard K. Bernstein.”

        I tolerate moron. I have a harder time with stupidity.

        Just go fuck off, Steve. Seriously. Take yourself and your pet condition, and just go fuck off.

      • Steve digs deeper with this:
        A world without licensing is a world where there is no redress for those in ill health. No redress for those given bad advice by bankers or doctors or self-appointed health gurus. @ Steve Wilson // Feb 2, 2012 at 14:27

        Hmmm…
        Wall street bailouts? Nothing to the American people (let alone Foreign nationals invested with those companies.)
        Bank bailouts? Ditto for the citizens/foreign nationals.
        Government Motors? Law was usurped to push those who stand to get SOMETHING for their investment to the end of the line – the bankruptcy settlement went to the unions, I believe it was…

        Doctors? Slightly more complex, but still – corpses don’t sue much. I’m told the original use for the AIDS drugs was chemotherapy, but they were found to be too hard on the human body…. Until AIDS came along, mind. (Whether this is doctors or pharma I can’t say, but I’ll try to avoid further conflation.)
        How about we talk about malpractice? If a doctor (or EMT, corpsman, nurse) stops to hel an accident victim, they can be sued for malpractice for ANY INJURIES suffered by the victim. Whether they caused, aggravated, even ALLEVIATED problems – they are not covered as “good samaritans,” and they are held to ridiculous standards, with no maximum award with respect to tort awards (IE, damages). Recent case that comes to mind was an MD, IIRC, who stopped to help an accident victim, pulled them out of the burning car, not knowing they had a broken neck. The car subsequently blew up or was engulfed in flames, meaning this person WOULD have died.
        This MD was then SUED because he moved this person, I would guess on grounds that the neck was further injured. And yet, the “victim” is walking, talking, etc.

        So, let’s see…. Your comment about being able to SUE for redress? Seems like it’s being MIS-USED all over the place. It is tyranny of the majority, I think, as by definition, not many can be EXPERTS, in ANY field, at ANY time. My father IS an expert (fire and explosions), and I’ve talked over his cases with him. Someone asks me a question, I might know the answer. If I don’t, I can ask my father.
        By your logic, I shouldn’t answer, and CANNOT know the answer, because I don’t have a gubmint tattoo on my @$$ saying I’m full of their shit.

        BUT, someone who IS an approved MD CANNOT be wrong, because he HAS the tattoo on his @$$. Even if he tells me mercury is a trace element necessary for proper mental function. And I MUST listen to this EXPERT because he’s been certified 100% Indoctrinated, by that tattoo on his ass.

        You’re arguing the wrong point here, you are arguing that doctors (and by extension, experts) are GOD(S), and can never be wrong, on the one hand – and then you talk about how the common proles need redress to a government agency? But if the all-knowing ones don’t know, in their OWN field of expertise, how are those who have the expertise of legislation and law enforcement to know SHIT from SHINOLA, unless they rely on EXPERT advice? The same experts we must in fact seek redress FROM, per your comment?

        Not sure if that’s begging the question, or if I just distilled your comments down to the barest, most ridiculous meanings, but – I do think you Eloi need some real education. Before there are Morlocks to decide when it’s dinner time…

      • Steve Wilson says:

        I’m not arguing that doctors are God. You are projecting and doing it extremely poorly. I don’t think what you believe me to think, nor did I mention litigation or the bankers gilded parachutes. It seems you need to set up your own blog, written in green ink and block capitals no doubt. Thanks for posting Alex Jones. I’m sure in your case the gubmint would make an exception and tattoo your backside because its overflowing and you’re still using it to make your insane posts.

      • Noelie says:

        Once upon a time back in the 1800 was a young country, full of poor immigrants- the usual sort of population you would have seen high rates of poor health in. Strange thing was that it was a very healthy nation, where anyone could see any kind of health practitioner they wished. There were no licenses forcing practitioners into some kind of lockstep that doesn’t allow for creative observation and solutions.
        Perhaps we were blessed to continue innovation and invention, but those that depend on those to oversee them and demand they have some sort of “license” are probably the very sort of country that will chain themselves to government medicine. Ooooh.. Wait……

      • Noelie has a visceral recounting, probably a rational one, too.

    • I bet you are one of thos OWS people aren’t you. Against people doing anything for profit. If people want to pay Mr. Cooksey for his advice why shouldn’t they? That is between Mr. Cooksey and his clients. I fail to see how this is any of the govts business.

      • Jasen – whatever. I’m definately not an OWS person. I’ve tried to explain my point here, and other places ad nauseum.

        You fail to see why it’s a problem that Steve Cooksey is not accredited, experienced, has no clinical experience, in fact – only has his own experience to go off of. I guess you think it’s alright for him to dispense and charge for nutrtional advice to people who may have a problem he has no knowledge on how to solve. (Like dumping syndrome, hypogyceamic shock, problems with T1s that are insulin resistant…etc.)

        In fact, I’m getting the sense that a lot of people here are discounting the effort that is needed to become a medical doctor, then a physician, or a dietician. It’s like you all think they send away their cereal box tops for their licenses or something.

        I just don’t see the point in trying to make you understand my point – so I concede it.

      • Noelie says:

        Yes. I do fail to see it. You go see your licensed pointless dietitians. The rest of us will just figure it out for ourselves and share what we are learned and are learning
        Dietitian as some sort of …. leader.. that in and of itself is a joke or they would fight the ridiculous notion that diabetics can eat sugar/carbs and and be just fine.
        Do you mind if I let you know just how ridiculous you are and how silly your assertions look from that angle?

      • Thumbs up and +1

  32. Todd Watson says:

    Suzanne Somers book is titled “Sexy Forever: How to Fight Fat after Forty”. She has others about bio-identical hormones. She targets a specific demographic based on age, sex (female if I am remembering right), and specified hormones. She has a companion website to the Sexy Forever book. She is/was an actress who seems to be very fit. Where are her credentials?

    • Sorry Todd – perhaps you can show me where Suzanne tells everyone that everyone else is an idiot, not to follow their advice, and only follow hers?
      Where is she saying or advocating that drugs are unnecessary and you can manage a degenerative disease like diabetes through diet and exercise?
      It’s a straw man argument to use Suzanne as an example.

      • Todd Watson says:

        It’s not a straw man to compare two advocates of two diets to manage and possibly heal two different degenerative diseases. You take exception to his advice to conquer diabetes without drugs. I have no particular issue with Suzzane Somers or what she is promoting, but I could take exception to her promoting bio-identical hormone replacement therapy instead of changing diet.

        I have seen plenty of doctors that advocate curing diabetes with diet change. I have seen friends in real life and online who have cured diabetes through diet and weight loss exclusively, but you insist it isn’t possible. Are you a licensed physician that make that claim?

      • Sorry Todd? Can you point me to where I stated I take exception to management of diabetes without drugs? I don’t remember saying that. I do remember saying that management for ME and a lot of type 1 diabetics include insulin – something EVEN Dr Bernstein uses.
        I’m not licensed. Are you? Is Steve Cooksey?
        I don’t dispense dietary advice to diabetics – because I only have my experience to go on. I can give what works for me, but I no longer state that my way is best. Otherwise, who the hell do I think I am?

      • Todd Watson says:

        Sorry, Jason. Maybe I misunderstood you. And no, I’m not a doctor. That is why I advised someone recently who messaged me privately on an online community to seek a different doctor or two to get second and third opinions. Something I said in a discussion about Paula Deen made sense to him and sought me for advice. I am not educated enough on diabetes to give advice. I am, however, educated enough to know that it seems counter productive to advise Wilford Brimley to eat oatmeal on a daily basis with diabetes. If I had known about Steve’s website then I would have pointed him there.

        I came to the Paleo diet having been told by three GP’s and one GI specialist to switch to a vegetarian or vegan diet for IBS and kidney stones. The diagnosis for IBS? Not enough enzymes to digest meat. Not sure the reason for the kidney stones. Four years as a vegetarian with bouts of veganism, I got sicker, the IBS didn’t clear up, the kidney stones got worse, developed impotence from low testosterone, and allergies got extremely bad. I gave Paleo a shot. Within two weeks my allergies cleared up. I’ve been on it for over eight months and I haven’t had kidney stones or gut issues. When I did cheat and have glutten, I start sneezing again. Congestion is gone. Frequent sinus headaches have completely disappeared.

        When you have three doctors tell you the same thing and a specialist back it up with tests, you tend to think you’re doing the right thing by following their advice. Fortunately, I am skeptical by nature and stayed of meds they gave me when I felt they were detrimental after a bit. But I made that choice and no one can take away my choices.

        If someone else wants to go to Steve Cooksey to get advice, that should be his decision. If he comes out screwed up because of it, he has to learn something from it himself. Neither you nor I can learn it for him. That is what I take exception to in this whole thing.

      • I totally see the point you are trying to make. Have you gotten better on the Paleo regime?

    • Steve Wilson says:

      I neither know nor care about Suzanne Somers credentials. You (I hope deliberately) missed the point I spelt out above, unless that is, Suzanne Somers wrote her books for one individual and sold it to that individual only? Didn’t think so.

      • Todd Watson says:

        Your point was noted. In your estimation, then, it is perfectly ok for Suzanne Sommers to make money off of her book and website targeting a specific health issue (hormone replacement) with a one-size-fits-all approach with no credentials vs. it not being ok for Steve to make money offering advice one on one to those who choose to go to him for a specific health issue (diabetes) with no credentials?

  33. I work in healthcare. Many of my co-workers are overweight but the one that has always amazed me was our diabetes educator. Not just a little overweight mind you. To be fair this person did what she had to do to get the job, worked hard and is intelligent and well educated. At the end of the day I need to see results and you should be somewhat of an example to your patients if the stuff you are teaching works.

  34. Cooksey,

    You are a shining example of what works for diabetes and know what doesn’t work (the current medical system and the Big Agra funded AM Diab ASS). I hope the media grabs this story and runs. Personally I cant stand Oz, but if your message broaches a larger audience with his rediCLUELESS show, then so be it…

    Most RDs and CDEs unfortunately follow their own advice and are brain damaged from grains, gluten and gut dysiobis, B12 deficency dementia and omega6pufa precancerous, prediabetic insanity, themselves. They are the witches trying to burn you.. it’s quite ironic to me. well. as the doors put it, ‘come on light my FIRE’. * ha ahaaa*

    I love your BAD*SS style and WARRIOR spirit!

    Much love,
    g

    • G,

      Thank you! … I owe you much! The fact that you shared your knowledge and experiences helped embolden me … no doubt about it.

      Seeing this comment … ‘lit a fire’ as well. MUAH! ;)

      Steve

  35. Cooksey,

    MUAHHHHHH * haaaahahahaa ahh!!*

    IR U kidding?? I have learned much from you and your physical and brain transformation and amazing SMBG candid shots!!

    Your hawwwt, hard, topless bod and muscles doesn’t hurt. WINK WINK

    Yes, we are the ‘big losers’ who reversed abominable health. I believe I saved my health insurance and the economic burden of chronic national illness by taking self control, limiting gains and excessive refined carbs, exercising, taking targeted nutraceuticals, and utilizing my SMBG glucometer to maximize my energy, hormones, and waistline.

    The illnesses I was destined to continue to have and burden tax payers and health insurance companies :
    – PMS and mood irritability (from chronic hyperinsulinemia and obesity)
    – insulin treated T2M like my grandmother
    – crippling arithritis and/or autoimmine disorder
    – cancer (#1 killer in the USA for the last few years)
    – heart disease and stroke (#2 and #3 killers due to consequences of the ‘healthywholedisease’ SAD food pryamid)

  36. I am sure you have already seen this Richard, but just in case, also from the great state of North Carolina……..http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101354/Food-police-reject-preschoolers-homemade-lunch–favour-chicken-nuggets.html. I think my favorite part is, the spokesperson from DHHS thinks this lunch from home may have met the requirements. She, or no one else, even questioned the right of the school to tell a parent what to feed their child, as long as it met the requirements of the Dear Leaders. What if a Paleo-parent has sent liver, bacon and onions fried in butter and maybe some un-pasturized raw keifer? I imagine the children would be in foster care at this time. How dare they step so far from the recommendations of their betters.

  37. I eagerly await to hear your take! Quite frankly, the implications of this kind of attitude, all to common these days, is way more frightening to me than the supposed dangers of not following the SAD as handed down from above.

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  1. […] my post yesterday shining a light on the travesty, I've sought to understand what was missing, in how some of the comments have gone. To get one […]

  2. […] I began my defense of Steve Cooksey the other day, contra the North Carolina Board of Dietetics/Nutrition (NCBDN), I […]

  3. […] North Carolina Bureau of Dietetics/Nutrition for giving out this advice without a license. Other blogs have come to Steve's defense but there are some who now put disclaimers on their blogs, because […]

  4. […] course, my favorite renegade Richard Nikoley has a superb post over at Free The Animal with a comment section that is eating me alive. You know that I am not a […]