Dr. Jack Kruse Booted from Carnival 2012 Low Carb Cruise

Yesterday afternoon I got wind of the story. Here's one.

A Nashville neurosurgeon was escorted off a Carnival Cruise Line ship Sunday after a post on Twitter led authorities to believe the doctor was planning a bioterrorist attack.

The tweet appeared to come from Dr. Jack Kruse and made it seem as though he was in possession of a vial of harmful bacteria.

Posted on Sunday morning, the tweet read, "Security confiscated dynamite. talk won't be as explosive as one at PaleoFx. still have vial of Legionnaires for epic biohack. #lccruise12."

In addition, Carnival was contacted by a caller named "Lance" who informed them a doctor aboard the Carnival Magic was planning a viral bio-hack.

Jack was interviewed on video by three Nashville news stations last evening. Here's the videos. They're the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th.

Of course, my whole deal with Jack really began a shitstorm when I posted this in early April: Jack Kruse: Neurosurgeon. Leptin Reset and Cold Thermogenesis. Controversy. It stands at 938 comments, a record for the blog. It also strained personal friendships in some cases and apparently ended them in others, but not instigated by me.

In some respect which I guess I understand, "it's either Jack Kruse or me," can't have it both ways. And as well, I have a longstanding "ethic" in the way I blog about Paleo and even LC which may not be apparent because of my frequent attack dog modality: I don't go after my own (unless they go after me first). It's a target rich environment out there, I have plenty to keep me occupied, and the very last thing I see myself as is some sort of custodian or high priest of Proper Paleo Doctrine (TM). Hell, it's the exact opposite: you're on your own, and the very first thing you need to do is stop asking self-appointed "authorities" what to do—and that in includes this asshole sitting right here typing.

There seems to be an increasing number of blogs and posts on blogs and comment threads on posts on blogs devoted to tearing down the unrighteous on whatever grounds seem convenient. Count me out. Popular targets are Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse. I was just reading one comment thread on a blog this last Sunday about the "vile, evil, fat, hypocritical, money-whore" Jimmy Moore, and while the post itself made some decent observations and criticisms (we could all use a little humbling touch-up, now and then), the comments were to me just seething with spite, envy, and whatever other unhealthy piling on and emotions you can name...as though dog-pile tearing something down of value—irrespective of the warts and pimples on the person who created it—is somehow more noble, creative, hard-working, and value driven than the creating, itself.

I call that "fake self-esteem," the fooling one's self that in tearing down something of value to others, it's tantamount to, or even greater than the building of that value itself. Some people seem to have the notion that if something is not of particular value to them, then it's a dis-value—not only to them, but by projection and extension, a dis-value to everyone, and a blight on the universe itself.

Count me out, at least in the context of Paleo and LC.

Alright, about Jack. Early on in this thing I listened to a lot of negative commentary about the guy. I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it, and I most certainly don't particularly care for Jack's seeming hyperbole, Savior stuff, Holy Grail approach to what he's raised awareness about, namely: Leptin Reset and Cold Thermogenesis. But one simply has to be blind if they don't see that both have been beneficial to a lot of people—a value. That matters a lot to me, far more so than his approach, which is far from my approach.

People say he lies. I say that everybody lies, and that honesty is a spectrum that begins with one's self. One of the reasons, I believe, that I've escaped some of these sorts of criticisms on others' blogs is because I do my damnedest to be honest, like this:

...I promise you that the 3 cunts behind it will regret it.

That was a follow-up Tweet last evening, after I had learned the news and was angry. I've had time, space, and the council of a couple of prominent Paleo peeps I count as friends, such that I now regret it as a massive, dick-stepping fuck up.

I apologize, particularly to anyone who may have insinuated that I was accusing them. The fact is: I do not know who was behind it, but that Tweet makes it appear as though I do, and that is wrong. I was wrong, plain, simple, and easy. And I always hate to be wrong and stupid...but the only thing to do when you're either, or both, is to stop being wrong and stupid moving forward. So that's what I'm doing.

I am cognizant of the possibility or probability that Paleo may soon move into the mainstream, and will most assuredly eclipse Low Carb as a more flexible, sound, integrated approach: simply because it does not and should not restrict and vilify one single macronutrient: carbohydrate.

But I think it should move into that mainstream with many varied voices, being as non-doctrinal/catechism as can be. There ought to be a lot of disagreement. There really ought not be, in my view, a lot of hand-wringing over such disagreements. My friend Mark Sisson is perhaps the poster child for such an ethic. He never trashes anyone. Should he disagree with someone, he'll just create a post about what he thinks is right or wrong. And he has gone out of his way to promote many, many voices of Paleo/Primal.

When it does go into the mainstream, one voice ought to be Jack Kruse, the Lunatic. And another, Jimmy Moore, the Fat Bastard. Richard Nikoley, the Angry Dick. Kurt Harris, the Most Popular Non-Blogger. Michael Eades, the Gentleman Doctor. Anthony Colpo, the Proctologist. Melissa McEwen, the Emotional Anthropologist. Emily Deans, the EvoShrink. That Paleo Guy, that Paleo Guy. Mark Sisson, that Everyone's Friend ...And even Evelyn at Carb Sane, who seems to be able to detect all pimples on all asses. And you, the commenters, lovers and haters alike.

You get to decide.

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Comments

  1. Well, they use it both ways, actually. They’re just not hung up about it, anymore than I would be to be called a cocksucker, dickhead, or something like that.

    To be perfectly honest, the most alluring thing about the term now is how so effectively it gets panties all in a bunch.

    I find it hilarious.

    So, while I meant what I said, it was not about using the word, per se, but in how it implied I was accusing people of involvement where in fact, I was, and remain, totally ignorant about that.

    • Jeremy Voluntaryist says:

      I think the only word that gets more of a rise now, possibly because cunt is so over used, is the word twat.

    • Shelley says:

      Being female, I am/have a cunt and use it according to the situation – that is the female power and/or prerogative. So you are free to use it anyway you so choose; however, I’d smack down my boys if they ever used it in my presence, really smack them down if it was directed towards me, and my husband may not get any if he used inappropriately. :-)

      And, yes, why do people get themselves so worked up over disagreements especially when it comes to food, health, etc. We have totally lost the fine art of debate and have become an hysterical group of whiney entitled brats – maybe a result of all the helicopter-moms…dang cunts!

      • “and my husband may not get any if he used inappropriately”

        Oh, yea.

        Many women want it both ways. In “dirty talk,” it may get them off like nothing else, but don’t use it anywhere else.

        But I also understand sanctity. So, is cunt a sacred word? Is that the problem?

      • Shelley says:

        My definition of sanctity is defined by how much tequila I’ve drank!

        But, back to the art of debating – we (in general, but most certainly including me) no longer have the courage or depth of knowledge on any subject to debate in a logical fashion, which does not invoke emotion or name-calling. I am really worried about this problem in general, not just in the “paleo-sphere,” but in every area of life. Why do people comment in a blog intent on tearing down and being so destructive when, if they disagreed, simply give a logical, reasoning response or ignore it totally?

        Even the “knowledgeable” people resort to name-calling, especially with Dr. Kruse. In all honesty, I go with my instincts sometimes and if the “knowledgeable” person can’t respond without name-calling, they fall down quite far on my credence level.

        I, personally, like to hear the differences. Heck, it wasn’t that long ago that low-fat was the way, brown rice instead of white, whole grains instead of white, margarine instead of butter, eggs are bad….my point being, which I am copping from you, Richard, is “how do you know you’re right?”

      • Shelley:

        Forgive me if I’ve never told you before that I love your mind. There are so many commenters.

        And since this is in comments about comments, it’s a good time to announce a radical plan. I’m going to have regular, smart commenters do guests posts on the blog.

        First up is Sean Abbot, probably the most regular commenter. I’ll then offer Nigel Kinbrum a spot, and then for sure, Gallier2. After that, wide open.

        I seriously think that this may be the coolest thing anyone has done.

        Comment good first, often, second, and you get to have tens of thousands read your thoughs. And BTW’ these guests posts are always on a topic of your own choosing, no boundaries.

        Just like life itself,

      • Shelley says:

        Love the idea, Richard (unless you’re just being a smart-ass and I can’t tell because it’s just typed words)! There’s also another guy (Joseph?), very thorough and seems pretty smart, always arguing with Shaun (I think). A guest blog is fine (kind of hijacks yours, but I’m sure you want a day off every now and then), but the comments are just as satisfying when they are thoughtful and insightful.

        I really learn and grow when someone throws a curve ball and challenges my ho-hum dogma – get me out of the rut and think in a different light. When people get hung up on words with no substance, what good does that do?

        People may get offended by some of your comments, but you keep it real, like the honesty shown with your cousin’s passing – when people keep it honest; keep it real; we all learn.

      • I just love the idea too, and it strikes me as so perfect on so many levels, and I think maybe I’m the first to think of it, at least in the sheer I frequent.

        I’m aiming for about a post every week or two. It’s not really anything about getting a break, but more about variety.

        Look, a big part of why this blog if popular is becaue it has the best, most intelligent comment threads in the Paleosphere. Of course, I’m biased, but it seems to me to usually strike an excellent balance between S/N ratio and intlligence and insightfulness.

        So, everyone who feels they’ve been a big value add in comments here, ring we up in email, let me check, and if it’s a go get in line.

        If you dont feel ther yet, keep up your participation and hit it later, I plan on this being very long term.

    • golooraam says:

      good for Rick – I like when you use all sorts of swear words
      it’s your freakin blog – people don’t like it, they can f-off

    • I use the word all the time and it does my head in how often people get so worked up about simple ‘words’. It’s just a word. A very descriptive one at that. I use it with friends but also to describe people who are simply fucking cunts, no other way to describe them.

  2. Cunt is the new bastard. Has been for ages here in Aus.

    First they came for the biohacking cunts and I said fuck all….

  3. JimmyH says:

    “But I think it should move into that mainstream with many varied voices, being as non-doctrinal/catechism as can be.”

    We can all hope for this to be the case. There is enough fucking cultish behavior in the world without this moving even further that way.

    As for your use of cunt, folks around here like to use the word ankle instead. As in 3 ft below a cunt. It gives the same pleasure, because it causes a very similar reaction of confusion and wonder

  4. Marteen says:

    Thanks for hitting it on the nose.

    I think part of the issue is that many aren’t interested in bringing Paleo to the mainstream masses. They’re happy having it for themselves, and will explore all the rabbit holes within a tight knit community. Then others make it their sole mission to bring Paleo into the home of every American and beyond. I’m not going to value one over the other. It’s just different perspectives, goals, motivations, etc.

    So meanwhile, everyone recognizes that the energy spent on Paleo in-fighting over CT and safe starches would be better applied to educating an IBS sufferer about grains. But the bad eggs of any movement find more success attacking their own than outsiders. Because the attacker has just enough in common with the victim to be manipulative.

    And I guess it’s worth mentioning Jack seems to regret being inseparable from the greater Paleo movement…. just because she shares many followers, addresses the same life and lifestyle challenges… advocates the diet itself…. I don’t know if he can have his meatza and eat it too in this case.

  5. Oh, you were the “cunt master” I heard about. Good post.

  6. No, no. I should NOT have used quotes. Those were MINE. You are the . . . dick, surely. Love your honest & heart-felt approach. For a dude, you seem very, what, ancestral ;-)

  7. Amanda says:

    I’m pretty stunned that these people took it so far as to call in a false terrorist threat to a Carnival cruise ship just to shut Kruse up. Whatever pejorative you care to call them, they deserve worse. (And they especially deserve the felony charges they now warrant.)

    I sure hope they were pretty clever about how they called in that threat. At this point, there’s a fair amount of technology devoted to detecting genius moves like that.

    Interestingly, Richard, I think you actually are a big reason why it happened. I’m not sure if you noticed, but after your “How Do You Know What You Know?” post, the vicious swarming behavior by the Usual Suspects stopped *dead* all over the net. Like a light switch had been flipped! It had been endemic everywhere. But after your post it just *ended*. It was like “Uh oh, Daddy’s home…we better stop beating the shit out of baby brother.”

    I seriously think that the fact that you didn’t let Melissa cow you (and then called her out on her posting attack comments under fake names) was a wake up call for the MeanGrrls. After your post, there was finally a potential cost to to the swarming and sock-puppeting (I think 99% of posters have no idea that their IP has been outing them all along.)

    But calling in fake terrorist threats — holy shit! These people are as crazily obsessed as they are tactically retarded.

    And thanks for standing up for Jimmy Moore. I think part of the reason the MeanGrrls are especially vicious with him is that they know he will turn the other cheek.

    Thank God Richard Nikoley won’t! (Pun intended.) :-)

    • Sierra says:

      Amen to that Amanda!! Melissa seriously needs to grow up and get a life!!! She actually kicked a FB friend of mine off of PaleoQUACKS for calling her on her BS. She acts like an emotionally stunted middle school kid. She wields her “power” as an admin over there & everyone cowers to her. What a JOKE!! I stopped going to PaleoQUACKS after that cause really I’ve been done with high school for 20 years!! Jimmy Moore’s sight is really great with all the podcasts & info. Much prefer that website for getting my info now!! And LOVE this line– oh so TRUE: ” These people are as crazily obsessed as they are tactically retarded.” Yep.

      • Stipetic says:

        “emotionally stunted middle school kid”

        Truer words…

        Jack’s the guy who got the latex glove treatment, metaphorically speaking, but if you check out the reactions from the other usual suspects, you’d think that somehow they’re the victims here. Talk about emotionally stunted…

      • If you believe Jack Kruse, you’re cognitively stunted Stipetic. He is a liar. He went on TV and said the FBI would be contacting me soon. Ha! I’ve not heard from them yet.

      • I saw the news reports (video, didn’t read the stories). Did he actually call you out by name or the name of your blog?

      • Please provide a link to the video where Dr. Kruse said the FBI would be contacting you. I’ve seen all of the coverage and your name or blog were not mentioned … at all. Until you provide a link, I’m calling you a liar.

      • Anna K. says:

        Evelyn, where please? Link?

      • Evelyn, I’ve asked you once, two other people have asked you now. You’re still in comments so you’re ignoring the fact that you have been charged with lying and ironically, in a comment accusing Jack of lying.

        C’mon. Should be easy enough to provide a link to video showing Jack naming your name. It exists or it doesn’t and if it doesn’t, looks like a standoff to me. But Jack doesn’t really give a shit what you say or do because you’re busy enough making yourself irrelevant by making a big deal about what most people basically know but don’t care that much about, because they see the world in a wider context than you.

        It was instructive this morning to go as see the sorts of commenters you attract.

        You’re welcome to them.

        Is that why you comment more here than on your own blog?

      • Leigh says:

        I’ll save her some time. Kruse said (my paraphrase) “one of the ringleaders is in NYC and she’s being looked into already”. I didn’t see it on the video I saw, though, just in the text of one article on a Nashville newspaper.

      • Anna K. says:

        “Is that why you comment more here than on your own blog?”

        LOL

      • If you are such a loser that you don’t realize that the “she” from NY is me, I can’t help you or your readers.

      • Never said he *named* me. Get real people. The “ring leader” SHE is me.

      • Leigh says:

        Really? People who don’t know your home state are losers? I thought we weren’t supposed to be internet stalkers?

        I’m pretty sure I’m not going to go off on stalkers and then call people who don’t know where I live losers.

      • Anna K. says:

        Why a person has to be a loser if he/she doesn’t realize that THE RING LEADER is you? you are not that famous…

      • “If you are such a loser…”

        Evelyn, if you really thought I was a loser, you’d not be here making comment after comment. But lying is what you do.

        So, for the record I think you are far and away from a loser. In fact, I really hope you take to heart some of the criticisms here and steer accordingly.

        I’ve been doing it for like 9 years now. I have no shame. Commenters rule, in the end. Even mine, toward you. The sooner you recognize that, the sooner your great talents will be directed toward more positive things.

      • “Why a person has to be a loser if he/she doesn’t realize that THE RING LEADER is you?”

        LOL

      • WTF is wrong with you people? Jack *named* me. He targeted ME. If any of you are stupid enough to think that I’m not the one he referred to at the end of the Ch5 report, I really can’t help you.

        Still waiting for FBI contact. Cue the music .. do do do do do do do .. do do do do do da do da do do

      • Leigh says:

        Dear, no one said they don’t realize it. It was said merely that it’s ridiculous to say someone is a loser simply because he has either no knowledge of where you live, or has never heard of you.

        I’d love to hear your educated discourse on something, but without the abuse of others. I truly would; it would be a gift.

      • Leigh:

        Don’t waste your time. While Evelyn does excellent science posts (I’ve been looking at a few of them and unlike here, I could never, ever, not recognize value), she really only has one mode and that’s to deconstruct, break apart context, focus on bits and pieces.

        It’s very clever. She’s always stating static truths. It’s only when you piece to get intent, meaning—you know, stuff humans do because sometimes lives depend on that sort of thing, especially way back when—that you realize how profoundly dishonest she is.

        Let me give you a quick example. I was late for a train in NYC once long ago. I ran to the counter. Women said there would not be time to sell me a ticket. I asked if I could buy a ticket on board and she said yea, no problem. I get aboard and the ticket costs like 3-4 times as much. That woman told me the truth. But she wasn’t really honest with me.

      • Stipetic says:

        @17.13, CS said: Never said he *named* me.
        @17.59, CS said: Jack *named* me.

        Never say never.

      • I said he “named” me. If I said it with ** as you wrote it, I made an error.

        Look folks, Jack went on television and accused me of being the ringleader. I didn’t say anyone is a loser who doesn’t make the connection, but Richard had names in mind when he made his “three cunts” tweet. He got those names from Jack.

        To Richard and all, I’m outta here b/c the number of comments and Richard’s cryptic style of dialog makes any sort of meaningful discussion next to impossible. I’m not interested in semantics lessons. You have your style, I have mine.

      • Last I checked millions of people live in NY.. Guess what? Half of them are ‘She’s’.. Get over yourself Evelyn.

      • Evelyn

        First of all, Jack did not tell me who was behind the tweet. Some weeks ago someone mentioned SKS to me and said it was you, Emily and Melissa behind it, maybe Kamel but I can’t recall.

        Also, The sequence in which I learned of this as relayed by Jack when he called was phone call, then some time or minutes later, the Tweet. I was blind with rage and learning of the tweet was like, oh, now the other shoe drops.

        The bottom line is that I don’t believe you or any of those others above is behind the phone call and thus, I don’t think any of you have any culpable involvement.

        I do think the tweet was in bad judgment.

      • Sally says:

        So Evelyn is the ring leader? I thought it was Melissa. I’m disappointed.

      • Sounds like an admission of guilt to me :-)

      • Shane says:

        Its times like this that I am really glad I don’t know who in the hell any of these people are! I have enough dumbasses in my work life without adding them into my home life (computer is at home) as well. The women named have obviously made a name for themselves as shit stirrers. It sucks ass that there are always some of them in any place people gather. They have a right to their opinions and some of those opinions may have validity. (and thus are useful) But if they were the ones that pulled this despicable act, they deserve the names they are labeled with and the legal actions that would follow. A prime example of you are your deeds so be prepared to own them.

    • Montie says:

      Amanda,

      I agree with what you have said here, and being employed in law enforcement and working frequently with Homeland Security as I do, I can assure you that HS has no fucking sense of humor about this stuff, and will quite eagerly seek out the whack jobs who pulled this stunt and slap them with a Federal felony, because it justifies their existence.

      If these idiot think they has somehow pulled this off totally anonymously, then they are in for a nifty lesson on how deep the Federal Government can dig to follow you down the rabbit hole all the way home these days.

      • Montie, you are a little late to the game. Jack has said that his attorney already tracked down the caller, deposed him, and apparently cleared him of all criminal charges. Jack’s attorney works much faster than Homeland Security.

      • Montie says:

        M.

        I never said they were speedy, usually far from it. But the fact that a major cruise line was involved will definitely get their attention. false reports that don’t cause danger to life and limb are down on the priority list but they’ll get to it. Like I said, it helps to justify their existence and their massive suck on tax dollars (but that’s a whole other issue). Of course Jack’s lawyer was quicker, he has no other priorities nor a ponderous beaurocracy to set into motion.

      • Montie,

        I was actually poking fun at Jack with the speedy comment. Jacks claim about his attorney deposing this “Lance” guy is likely BS. Jack seems to be a pathological BS’er.

        Overlooking the whole issue of why any attorney in their right mind would be deposing a suspect in 5-day old open FBI investigation and then publicly stating that the suspect is no longer connected to the crime that the FBI is still investigating, Jack’s civil attorney would have likely had to give 14 days notice before the civil deposition and would have likely had to give the opposing litigants and their counsel an opportunity to be present. The 5-day speed Jack claims is likely only possible when the “deposition” is imaginary.

        Again, Jack is just a pathological BS’er. He tweeted that the FBI traced IP addresses to NY, Chicago, and Boston. He told one of the TV stations that the ringleader lady was from NY. Now he saying this “Lance” guy has been deposed by Jack’s civil attorney 5 days after the FBI opened their criminal investigation and that this suspect has been essentially cleared of all criminal offenses.

        Jack is just trying to craft a narrative that is trying to get everybody to focus on the tweeter and not on this Lance guy. He has been telling the news stations about cyber attacks and stolen identities and hacked twitter accounts. Just all BS. Like this claim about a civil deposition will likely turn out to be.

  8. phreebie says:

    No cruise for Kruse. Pretty shitty stunt. Hope they nab ‘em and let them burnrot in jail. Nice ranty post about tho, I had to read it a couple of times just to get the gist.

    I like Mark Sisson too, he was the gateway dude for all of this good stuff for me. Still my main goto guy. But I like to subscribe here too for a bit less of the sunshine & moonbeam feelgood lovin’ stuff.

    Bravo.

    PS loving your cold thermogenesis stuff too. When I was a kid, living at a beach community, these old folks that lived across from us would swim in the ocean, early morning, every day, year round. swore by it. We went swimming with them the odd time in winter. Even then I thought there was something in it. Never kept it up myself though. Shame.

  9. Paula

    Forgive me, but: “sticks & stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.”

    It’s arguably the best thing I ever learned in my life. I never get weighed down.

    …shared a house with a fellow navy officer in Japan, and between himself and his black friends, I heard the word nigger tossed around exponentially more than I ever heard from my mildly racist grandparents.

    So count me unimpressed with your analogy.

    • Comparing anyword to “nigger” is a bit like comparing anyone to “hitler”. It undermines your argument, and is very cuntish.

      • Goodwin comes out early.

      • Yeah, they were men and in the pub, I’m guessing in the armed forces and lacking female company. They probably wouldn’t speak like that when their wives and girlfriends were around. Hey, I’m not criticising them, sure they let off steam in the pub after a few drinks – no problem. My reason for posting is I don’t want American readers to arrive at Heathrow Airport, stroll up to the nice immigration lady and affectionately call her a cunt. They might find themselves in a lock up on the receiving end of an intimate drugs search before being send on the next plane back.

      • “My reason for posting is I don’t want American readers to arrive at Heathrow Airport, stroll up to the nice immigration lady and affectionately call her a cunt.”

        Oh, OK, Public Service Announcement, then. Got it.

        I’ve herewith dispensed with the slightest notion that you had a scintilla of a cunt hair motivation otherwise. :)

      • By the way, JJ, Bea & I went up to dinner in the Marina District of SF Saturday evening and I parked the car right in front of their garage door, but the sidewalk below was clear.

        First thing I said when entering Chris & Erna’s place? “I parked the car within a cunt hair of your garage door.”

      • As an Englishman, I often use the word Cunt, not as a term of endearment but as a particularly useful adjective for a horrific human being. Nothing else quite has the same effect. Mostly down the pub with mates and mostly in reference to other men. However it is a useful bit of banter when your mate is being a bit cuntish.

      • LeonRover says:

        You guys have not got the exact nuances of British invective, thusly:

        “You shit, yr not EVEN a cunt, ‘cos a cunt’s a useful thing!!”

    • The name doesn’t hurt, even you using it doesn’t hurt. It’s that you use it to hurt that is offensive. You know it, but it’s part of the misogyny schtick.

      • I don’t use it to “hurt.” I use it to laugh at people who feign being “hurt.” Words can’t hurt. Sticks, stones, guns & knives can “hurt.”

      • And incidentally, I use a lot of words that many could consider “hurtful,” drawing the line at racial slurs–not because of the words themselves but because of the implication that one might be a racist, which I’m the furthest thing from.

        Of course, that’s why everyone on your comment thread cares to paint it as misogyny, which it isn’t, either. Any more Than it’s misandry or homophobic if I call a guy a cocksucker.

      • richard said: And incidentally, I use a lot of words that many could consider “hurtful,” drawing the line at racial slurs–not because of the words themselves but because of the implication that one might be a racist, which I’m the furthest thing from.

        v says: you don’t want the implication that you are a racist, but the implication that you are a misogynist is ok?? strange. why do you care if people think you are a racist if you know and your blackie friends know you are not? i think you need to free your mind. also, you like to see people upset. that means you are a jerk. if you weren’t on the internet, you would be farting next to people’s faces and laughing when they felt disgust. then you would be like “but my friends and me always fart with each other and no one is offended” there are lots of farters like that in the world because it is so fun to make people get upset

      • “v says: you don’t want the implication that you are a racist, but the implication that you are a misogynist is ok”

        No, because that’s easily dismissed as a stupid cunt or a stupid cocksucker, whatever the case,

        Now go fuck off’ stupid cunt or stupid cocksucker, whatever the case may be.

        And [yawn]

      • Oh, and v, I’m so very sorry that yu’re such a delicate flower–pathetic as can be– who worries about being hurt by words.

        Now go fuck off, again, cunt or cocksuker’ or both as the case may be.

        And I fart in your general direction.

      • You still have some usenet in ya dontcha! Flame wars were an essential part of what we now have and the art, sad to say, of a good 4 month war has largely been lost.

        The green glow of phosphorus is strong in you young cuntgawker!

      • Jscott

        I think I know what you mean.

        I’ve been exchanging some emails w Robb Wolf.

      • Leigh says:

        Usenet. bwahahahaha! Back in the day … when only anti-social geeks with no ability to disagree without flaming populated the “internet” … before Al Gore invented it … headers 45 miles long … those were the days…

      • CarbSane –

        with all the venom and ad hominem attacks you spew – crying “hurt” seems really
        disingenuous. Either stop attacking others and cry foul when someone does it to you or put a helmet on after attacking others. Can’t play both sides of this.

      • AmandaT says:

        Well said EF. I sometimes wonder if CS ever reads what she has written. I can rarely stomach reading her blog, but when I do it seems as if she is constantly accusing others of characteristics that she is far more guilty of herself eg arrogance, hypocrisy, nastiness. By the way, Richard, you can swear all you like, and I will still find your blog far less offensive than Carbsane’s.

  10. And Paula, and others, is this thread REALLY going to be about writing out C.U.N.T on a keyboard?

    Huh?

    Is that what you and others really care about more than anything else?

    FWIW, I’ve been advised by a number of people I take counsel from to stop using it. Total BS, victim comments like yours almost make me want to ignore all that.

    Shit, it’s a 4-letter word, fer Crissakes.

    • Put a “Y” on it and it changes everything.

      And yes, many a brit/scott woman will drop the word as both a term of endearment and as an insult. Perhaps not in proper society, but I believe that is exactly why it is used by many. Middle finger to the proper.

    • The very First comment on something pretty important was about your use of “cunt”. Are we all in grade school here? Come on…like I said somewhere else, this is your house and you can say what you want. I find the word offensive, but so what?
      The point is about Jack Kruse and some sicko’s actions. From some other not so childish comments I see here there is some dissension in the Paleo world. I’ve only been actively Paleo for a year and have relied on just a few blogs and books. What disturbs me is a possible Paleo religion / cult being formed. Not cool. Richard, thank you for keeping it grounded.

      • Heh heh. Kate Ground said grounded. :)

      • “What disturbs me is a possible Paleo religion / cult being formed. Not cool. ”

        See how easy that is.

      • Too late. It is a religion…..with mantras…CT, LC, TM?, Paleo, Primal, Oh. My. God! Oh the human-ness of it all. I read the rest of the comments on this post late last night. I am wondering who these so-called experts of Paleo are and why we care? “Why Can’t We All Just Get Along?” I understand everyone is curious about blood sugar and omega 6 and CT, but isn’t it just really simple? Hunt Bison and eat. What’s the big f—ing deal what she says, he says, she….blah blah. I know you Paleo nerds have to have something to do, but can we keep it out of the school yard? I’m going to go have some of my GROUND coffee. Did cave men have coffee? Oh dear…..

      • Well, Kate, you kicked this off yesterday remarking how the first comment was about my use of the c-word. Go have a look at CS’s place. Haven’t read the post yet, but scanned the comment stream and much of it is all about that.

        Interesting.

      • I couldn’t read it all without puking my bacon…I am going to borrow Nigel’s tin foil hat, though.

      • It’s official then – which mythological fairy tale shall we deem “God”? forget Coffee – I think Cavemen smoked weed and ate mushrooms – they must be in hell.

      • Mark: Wow…let me put my tin foil hat on and see if I get a revelation…Oh, coffee is from God. Thank you, God. Oh, and so are weed and mushrooms. They are from God. Thank you, God. Cavemen believed in a higher powers…were they hallucinating? But their brain cells were from God, so He had them pointed in the right direction.

      • Kate, get yer own tinfoil hat!

      • “Cavemen believed in a higher powers…were they hallucinating?”

        Yes, fucking insane actually.

        Where is the proof they believed in fairy tales? The evidence suggests they painted and scribbled about the stars and the moon…

      • marie says:

        Fucking insane, absolutely out of their minds, literally.
        Hallucinogenic caves : Not structured fairy tales, but not only paintings of realistic stars, moon…or horses, for that matter.
        The patterns seem to be standard mathematical-neurological constructs. Tons of studies on this (some find evidence of gasses in certain caves that even Today cause hallucinations, others point to anoxia/darkness/cold/sensory deprivation in caves causing unintentional hallucinations or helping to induce intentional ones.
        Here’s one overview of the patterns-neurology with references (o.k., so maybe I just like the title :-)
        http://www.wbez.org/blog/clever-apes/2011-03-02/cave-art-and-acid-trips-math-they-didnt-teach-you-school-83266
        Here’s one with more detail on social/shamanic aspects :
        http://www.humanjourney.us/PaleolithicBeginnings2.html

      • “Then, because of the way our visual network is designed, those patterns appear to our eyes as spirals, funnels and tunnels, honeycombs or cobwebs. In fact, those four patterns seem to be pretty much it: Our brain architecture is capable of producing only variations on those four themes.”
        Was the word”designed” used here? Did all this brain “architecture” come from being evolved from “pink” slime? Hmmmm. And God put mushrooms on this planet for a reason…..at least from my experience. I do not agree in only 4 themes. That’s bull

      • marie says:

        Wow Kate. Summary dismissal of something you just read? Come on now. I’ve actually been involved in some of patterning research and I still feel I don’t know enough to agree or not agree on various details (4 patterns, 6, fractals, etc) , but I find there’s a lot of good research on this so its interesting to learn about.
        The only point here was the apparently hallucinogenic nature of a lot of cave art.

      • Let’s just say I’ve done my own research. I agree with the hallucinogenic nature of cave art. But I don’t agree with only 4 patterns. My “theory” yet to be proven is the God put hallucinogens on earth for us to cut through the daily crap and open our pea brains to see Him better. Maybe?

      • marie says:

        I like it! If I ever subscribe to the god hypothesis, I’m definitely keeping that in mind ;-)

      • Funny – They were actually brilliant… We are the hallucinating, brain dead, fairy tale worshipers…

        100’s of sites built around the star movements.. take spacial note of the solstices.. ;) (hint at least 50 gods died and were resurrected based around the “sun” rising around Dec. 25th – way before Christianity)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_archaeoastronomical_sites_sorted_by_country

        I can do this all day.

      • To me, again, I say..TO ME, what man had, limited as it was, is astrology. It was something he could see… it shows man’s attempt at explaining why he is here, what it out “there”, what the super natural is. Man always tries to explain things….that’s part of what differentiates us from your dog. But if man limits himself to only what he can see, touch, hear…he may get no where. I wonder if Aristotle and Plato did hallucinogens.

      • You almost put 2 + 2 together there. The sun was powerful – worth worshipping when we were clueless…. yes = 4

      • “But if man limits himself to only what he can see, touch, hear…he may get no where.”

        So what’s wrong with that? Do you expect to be saved somehow?

        Look more Sun worship, in India even..
        http://templenet.com/suntemple.html

        “Man always tries to explain things….that’s part of what differentiates us from your dog”

        So you think we are more special? – That’s very Muslim of you…

      • I think we are still clueless. All this “science” proving our beginnings is pure “mans attempt at explaining why he is here”. Science claims to be proving God non-existent with all their “findings”. But many more scientists are finding God exists BECAUSE of their “findings”. So who is right?

        Oh, I’m not more special than my dogs, I said “differentiate”. Now your dog….maybe.

      • “Oh, I’m not more special than my dogs, I said “differentiate”. Now your dog….maybe.”

        Sorry – I assumed the general idea that humans think we are at the top on the pyramid -sort of speak. The part that “differentiates” us as you put it is also the part that makes us the only speices to “hallucinate” visions of real fairytales…

        Oh look – Muslim religion is a plagerized story of early Arab Pagan moon gods.. turned ass backwards by a Narcissistic murdering pedophile…
        http://www.faithfreedom.org/one/was-allah-the-moon-god-of-ancient-arab-pagan/

      • Again, it was just a bunch of Humans trying to explain s***. And who said dogs don’t hallucinate? Ever give a dog acid? Please don’t, but you’ve seen a sleeping dog chase something. They dream. We really don’t know what else goes on in their minds. Scientists think they can test things out, but has a scientist ever asked a dog if he believes in God? God is DOG spelled backwards, after all. BTW One of my dogs can open a cupboard door and purposely pull the chicken treats out….not the milk bones. He knows what he is doing. It is spooky. Now the other dogs? I don’t think they know or care….a treat is a treat.

  11. What I don’t get is why “motherfucker” is the only socially acceptable insult these days, you hear it all the time. Imo accusing someone of having sex with his mother is a pretty serious insult.

    You respond with “cocksucker?” Homophobe
    Respond with “nigger”? Racist
    Respond with “cunt”? Misogynist

    So someone calls you a motherfucker and you are left standing there with your dick in your hand because all the responses are verboten.

  12. C U Next Tuesday

  13. gallier2 says:

    An actual important news, with wide-reaching implication, showing the malevolence of the war on terrorism, the abusive state power, the badness of groupthink, mainstream exposure and people quibble about a swear words… What’s wrong with you people? Your priorities are fucked up.

    • Gallier2, my good friend who has always been able to withstand any disagreement we’ve had, and so helped me in a time of need.

      See my latest comment. Because you popped in right as I published it, you can move forward in line before that Cunt Nigel.

      • gallier2 says:

        Wow, thanks, I will try to think about something worthwhile to write. As you noticed, I like to nitpick, but I am barely able to write big coherent posts myself (my personal blog http://tristopia.blogspot.fr/ has only 2 entries in 3 years).

      • You’ve got better than a week to work it out, and I’d love to hear it from you. You might write it in French first, and we can together work out the English, reverse of what we did back then.

  14. Who would have ever thought Richard Nikoley’s picture would be next to “passive aggressive” in the dictionary. Jimmy Moore is a fraud who tried to take me down by violating email privacy. Or don’t you care about that Dicky? Wasn’t the guvmint who tried to silence free speech of a (then) obscure anonymous blogger. There’s a saying that what goes around comes around. Me thinks it’s coming around. I won’t presume to give the great animal advice though. Would be wasted cyberink.

    • Ha, welcome to the voice, Evelyn.

      Give it your best shot, pump up that fake self esteem, ’cause maybe you don’t have any earned?

      And whatever you do, unlike you, I’ll still advise folks to go to your blog and judge for themselves.

      How’s that for fucking passive?

      • Ha back atcha. I don’t know what blog of mine you are reading, but advising my readers to go to original sources and think for themselves is a huge part of my repertoire. OK, I was wrong. Your picture will be next to fake self esteem in the dictionary.

      • Whatever, Evelyn. We both apparently have loaded guns, can shoot at each other or at targets, or set them down.

        While maybe I didn’t paint you in the total best light in that penultimate paragraph, I did include you and you could stop and wonder why I did that.

      • You painted her in the exact right light: a perfect likeness.

        And I love it when people misuse the term “free speech”. Narcissists invariably mistake it the way Evelyn has, imagining it to mean “the freedom to prevent others from speaking freely.”

      • Huh?

      • Shelley says:

        Evelyn: So I was not aware of another paleo blogger, so I checked out your webpage. In all honesty, you seem so angry (maybe envious even) from your writings. Do you really care if someone is making some money with advertising on their blog? Do you really care if someone is ripping off your ideas? I venture to guess that not many of us have had an original thought in an awfully long time. :-) Cheer up – it’ll do you good.

      • I’m a very happy person … no worries. Y’all don’t get the point about the ads because you don’t read the blog posts, or you have incredibly poor reading comprehension. Jimmy Moore has become a total fraud and still paleos flock to his podcasts and defend the guy because he’s the man to get noticed. Did you read the post where he waxed moralistic over how he would never promote a product containing crap he wouldn’t put in his body? Go read it. http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/05/in-yo-face-hypocrisy-of-jimmy-moore.html
        And um, yeah. If someone is ripping off my ideas and blogposts I do tend to care.

      • Evelyn

        It was one or the other of those posts I was referring to in my post that said made good observations and good points, though I think it’s sufficient to do it without calling Jimmy an outright fraud. Unnecessary, untrue. Inconsistent? I’ll buy that. But I didn’t really have a problem calling him out on it. But the comment thread just seems to seethe with hatred for Jimmy, which I simply don’t get.

        Here you have all this objectively junk science to go after that’s doing real, objective harm to, killing people, causing them to live moribund, diseased, decrepit lives, and you go after the promoters of a diet plan, LC, that truly does help a lot of people lose fat and get healthier, because they have some of their science messed up?

        How about have a bit of faith in people? I myself used to buy into the “caloeies don’t count” nonsense. Not any more, and if you were to look at the comment thread on my first post in that regard, tons have came to the same conclusion.

        I don’t recall a single one saying it was because of you. Some said Colpo, but most said that they simply discovered it on their own.

      • Shelley says:

        Evelyn, but it really doesn’t matter what someone else does on their post. And you may have good stuff on your site, but I couldn’t get past the finger-pointing.

        To me, which applies to my life in general, what matters is that at the end of the day when my head hits the pillow and I honestly evaluate how I did that day, I ask: did I improve today; do I have any regrets; did I do everything within my ability to learn, grow, provide for my family, friends, workplace; did I smile/laugh more than critique/frown, etc. I do not EVER focus on anyone else – it does a person no good. You are only in control of you and your actions. You may try to influence, and I hope you do, but I have found that influencing happens more profoundly when done positively.

        And being in patent law, you can give up on the idea that your blogs are yours. Unless you copyright your words and plan to enforce that, forget about it and be flattered.

      • In fairness, I don’t think Evelyn minded the use of Kurt Harris’ comment by Jimmy, but that it wasn’t attributed to either Kurt or her blog and not only that, but was implied to have come in through his own comment stream.

        Sure he said “here’s an example of the kinds of stuff I get on a daily basis”, so he could argue that “get” is non specific as to source, but it seemed to be lumped in with things that clearly did come from his comment stream.

      • Oh, so now you’re the word police or something? I happen to believe he’s a fraud at this point. I don’t think you can get much worse than going off moralizing about how you wouldn’t work with a company/product you wouldn’t put in your body in a million years and then less than six months later … up pops the MRP containing corn syrup solids, maltodextrin, soy lecithin and two artificial sweeteners. So perhaps it’s unnecessary in your mind, we can disagree.

        My self worth doesn’t depend on being credited for others’ dietary choices, but yeah, from time to time I do get comments on my blog and in my email thanking me for debunking the Taubes bullshit so they could eat a freakin banana without thinking they’re killing themselves with glycation.

      • I seemed to find a way of ditching the calories don’t count myth, Evylin, without trashing Taubes. I agree with Stephan, Colpo and I suppose you, though I’m not familiar enough yet to know if your arguments differ substantially from theirs.

        Just sayin’

        As to Moore, I simply think the word fraud is way overblown.

      • Evelyn,
        You are so up your own backside with your qualifications / degrees etc. The big bottom line is that you still have a big one (bottom). Just because Gary Taubes, Kurt Harris and other exponents of a HFLC approach hasn’t worked for you, (but does for them) probably means that you are metabolically damaged, as with Jimmy, and you will probably have to accept that aesthetically you will never get there. That really irks you because of your ego. You are energetic and intelligent and have a high output as does Richard and Jimmy, which I admire.
        Let’s have your anecdotal story and critical analysis on why you are still “heavy” and can’t seem to change that fact.
        That’s the bottom line after all.
        “Peace,” as Pat Condell says….

      • p.s. Nigel is a cunt and hangs around with carpet munchers and turd burglars when he gets the chance, at the karaoke fuelled orgies at his local pub. It’s the mega high omega 6 levels in the diet that is causing this…..

      • Oh, Bill, are you going to make sure Nigel sees your comment, or should I?

        If we’re lucky, he’ll write a post slamming us both that cunt,

      • Laf

        I finds that fucking hilarious, Bill.

      • And you’re quite ugly but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I’m not metabolically damaged. Pretty darned near nobody is. Jimmy Moore sure isn’t. I’m a normal size, healthy and strong as shit. That’s enough for me.

      • Anna K. says:

        Evelyn, have you tried cold therapy?

      • Ana. Expect her to ignore that comment as she will your last, and mine.

        And don’t either expect her to ever say something like, “Richard was unwilling to just go with the tribe and Paleo-CW because he’s already been going in cold water for years and sensed that a lot of people were talking without any real experience. Richard doesn’t buy into the hyperbolic aspects of Kruse’s ideas, but is nonetheless enthusiastic about this aspect of Kruse’s claims.”

        You’ll never, ever see that kind of fully integrated honesty on her blog, because she operates by deconstruction…essentially, like an ambush journalist applied to blogging.

        She doesn’t realize that Michael Moore has tons of protection and she doesn’t.

      • Oi. I’ve been busy all weekend going to all-day concerts and uploading loads of shit onto facebook. So fuck you guys!

      • marie says:

        “I’ve been busy all weekend…” Weekend?!?
        So there you have it folks, that high omega-6 diet that Bill points out, undoubtedly aggravated by low vitamin D-levels due those dark pubs and due to Nigel’s utter rejection of supplementation, has caused him to lose several days of the Week;-)

      • I’m pretty sure I posted several times that I’ve used the cold plunge when its available to me. Oh, and I’ve used “spot CT” on a darned near daily basis from age 13-15 due to the fact I had Osgood Schlatter’s but you weren’t going to tell me to stop gymnastics and every manner of sports, which was what my doc would have preferred. I’m pretty sure Jack hadn’t found the ancient pathway yet, and I’m certain some of those spot CT sessions, aka putting ice on my swollen screaming knees, I was eating a banana in January.

        No, I won’t be taking ice baths, but I plan to put up a pool this summer.

      • Anna K. says:

        Evelyn, how is a cold plunge different from a cold bath? Is this the duration issue? temperature? did you enjoy your cold plunges? May be we can actually talk the substance instead of attacks?

      • “No, I won’t be taking ice baths, but I plan to put up a pool this summer.”

        Ray Cronise is all over this and does not seem to think extreme cold is necessary for the benefits. So, an unheated pool would probably do the trick as well as anything else. In my last post on it, I said I wasn’t going to be messing with ice or anything like that. My 150 gal tub is in the shade, I refresh the water 20-30 gal before each session and dump and refil every 3-4 days. So fat, it’s staying around 60 as things heat up outside.

      • We had a bank holiday weekend here. I went to a music festival on Monday then karaoke in the evening followed by a jam session at a different pub.

        My Olympus Fe190 camera needed to be replaced, as it used an obsolete type of media card & my Blackberry had shit sound quality when recording loud music at the concerts.

        I went camera shopping on Tuesday after visiting mum in the care home, bought a Samsung WB210 then went karaokeing in the evening.

        On Wednesday, I had an eye test then went to an open mic night in the evening.

        On Thursday, I went to a U3A meeting in the morning, visited my God-daughter in the afternoon and had a much-needed snooze in the evening.

        Like I said, I’ve been busy!

      • Now that you have a new camera, I think you should film your karaoke-ing for us. No?

      • marie says:

        Here-here Kate! Nigel, does this camera now have a stand?
        Pet peeve, how come no physical U3A in the USA? -only online (international). Do you happen to know why?

    • Oh, Evelyn, I was not as circumspect in my response as I should have been, seems you asked me a direct Q.

      Somethng about Jimmy violating email privacy.

      Well, I must ask: is there any such thing as _mail_ privacy? Like, when historians publish letters and shit, or the MSM gets hold of one?

      I thnk it’s insane to write an email that you might not want published far & wide. I generally respect explicit requests to keep private…actually, always, but if there’s no specific req, I feel just as free to publish anything that comes to me in email as I do with anything that comes to my cunt…oh, box.

      • Jimmy came to my blog to request that I appear on his podcast. I was anonymous at the time and expressed concerns over remaining so because I’ve been a victim of cyberstalking in the past. No laughing matter I might add. Jimmy shared this with Gary Taubes. Gary, Jimmy & Tom Naughton launched a concerted campaign against me to portray me as a mentally unstable internet stalker. Goshers it’s all so familiar right down to the use of the words cyber and stalking for events, that if they occurred, would not amount to that whatsoever. But what’s the big deal, right Dick? Nothing a dip in the tub won’t cure. Right Dick? This Kruse episode would all be so laughable if it hadn’t entrapped many good people along the way. You, I’ll be honest, I could give a Long Evans rat’s ass about. Some others were caught up and hopefully it’s not too late to cut themselves loose from the trainwreck that is Jack Kruse. Seems many of them are intent on going down with the virtual Titanic, however.

      • Evelyn:

        It seems to me that perhaps you might be beyond my reach to say: keep going. By that, I mean, I read a ton of your posts last weekend and I think you are a super value. But I also think you have more value beyond spending your time on pimples on Paleo and LC asses when there are septic boils on so many others.

        You have an awesome, critical mind and like Melissa, are far smarter than I. My only claim is I’m a fuckig good writer, a consistent writer, and a decent shit stirrer, which all the smart people love and I only like smart people. Personal preference, I’m sorry.

        I’m also sorry, Evelyn, that you have so far totally failed in motivatg me into giving you something to blog about me in a nasty manner. You’re just going to have to search the blog for that.

        Love always,

        Richard

      • Don’t sell yourself short.

        They’re not that smart.

      • Please do feel free to suggest which butt boils I should be attending to. The Jacks and Jimmys are more than pimples, they are festering diabetic wounds that refuse to heal at this point.

      • See my last comment. It’s a target rich environment.

        It’s really odd to me as well that in terms of general nutrition and dietary knowledge on an individual level, LC and Paleo types generally stand head & shoulders over the massive ignorance of the general public, and yet you seem intent on curing us of our own ignorance you perceive.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        “[T]arget rich environment” – what a great description. But shouldn’t any movement, however loosely conceived and organized, police its own? Seems to me that when that doesn’t happen, THAT’s when you get charlatans like Heidi Diaz (“Kimkins”) and other assorted snake oil salesmen – and then it makes everyone look bad. From my vantage point that’s all people like CarbSane and Dr. Harris and some of the people at PaleoHacks (Melissa, etc.) have tried to do. This isn’t a War on Terror and our critics aren’t either “with us or against us”…

      • ELMM:

        Ask yourself this. First, of course the class action and whatever other investigation of fraud charges may have been got the most publicity, But, had those not been in effect, what do you think might have happened to Diaz?

        Yea—and i do not know the backstory—Jimmy has been criticized for promoting her eventually, and I don’t think it was gov that outted her, and what did he do and what has he done? He admitted his error, corrected it and so far as i know, done the other way.

        But it’s so easy to criticize someone for not being omniscient. The implication is, no one should every support or advocate for anything at all until some [authority] has cleared them of all potential wrongdoing and anointed them as safe to regard (that’s a Frenchie device—that last word—a very economical one).

      • AnnaG says:

        Interesting self assessment. Shit stirrer? Yes. Good writer? I laughed out loud.

      • Oh, wow, AnnaG gets to be a fucking critic!

        Wow, how original. Wasn’t that easy? Hey, 5 whole sentences even. Excellent writing skilz too.

        I laughed out loud, fuckwit.

      • Saviors never fare well.

      • Johnny says:

        I’ve been critical of CS as someone who exaggerates wildly out of weird, aggressive anger before, although I do like reading her site. There’s a lot there, and she obviously has a lot of time to write and read, so, yanno, thanks for the free content. It’s increasingly difficult, because the good stuff is typically soaked in emotional sewage.

        Jimmy shared this with Gary Taubes. Gary, Jimmy & Tom Naughton launched a concerted campaign against me to portray me as a mentally unstable internet stalker.

        I think it’s good practice, if you’re over the age of 8, to assume that email is forever and will eventually diffuse somewhere you don’t want it to go. Think of it as “always being on the record”. Sure, there’s a pantheon of dicky things that can be done with email you sent in good faith, and your bad judgement doesn’t excuse someone else’s dicky behavior. For all I know, Jimmy Moore may be the worst MFer in all of Christendom. But, here’s the thing: I’m not willing to take Evelyns’ word for it. Is JM as thick as a prison wall, figuratively and literally? Sure, why not. Evil? Eh….

        Violating email privacy is obviously not a legal concept, so it’s a obfuscatory way of saying “violated his word” . Why can’t CS use plain language? Why the wild exaggeration and dozens of words to say a simple thing? Because she doesn’t want to speak plainly. Because the simple description probably doesn’t flatter her.

        And by the way: would anyone like to post some links to read about what this actually was? “Concerted campaign to portray me as mentally unstable” translates, I’m guessing, as “posted on interwebs insinuating that I’m a crazy as a shithouse rat”, in which case CS has left out some names of people who have shared similar sentiments. The reason she wouldn’t do that is because it’s in her interests to portray any criticism of her as bunch of carbophobic retards. Well, in any case, I’m willing to be talked out of my characterization of her, once I’m kicked some actual f’n information.

      • Johnny, I was a victim of REAL cyberstalking a few years ago. As in people hunting down my identity, crank calls, etc. That is not fun and I don’t take any accusations, either way about that, lightly.

        Jimmy asked me to be on his podcast. I agreed so long as my anonymity would be protected. I expressed my concerns about cyberstalking. He shared this with Gary Taubes who then used it in his email to me. That is when I was accused of stalking by Gary and Tom Naughton. Writing blog posts exposing the bad science of Gary Taubes is not stalking, nor is commenting on blogs and interview websites. But the tale was woven. Now THIS was a coordinated, deliberate attempt to intimidate me. If folks here can’t see that, I can’t help ya. I’m not a paranoid person.

        I know I’m not behind any of this Kruse shit and I have nothing to fear from my blog posts exposing the Jack’s quackery. The whipped up frenzy that Richard is contributing to, along with the threats of civil action, are disconcerting … not the veiled threats re: the FBI. That the FBI DIDN’T contact me, when ol’ “ring leader” here was mentioned in a (credible?) news report should tell you something.

        If you’ve never gotten any actual f’n information from my blog, you’re obviously one of those who reads only the gossipy posts and complains about there being no science while not reading the science posts. Can’t lead a horse’s to water.

      • For the record Evelyn, I only encouraged Jack to diffuse any criminal charges, for both the tweeters and the caller(s). Take the high road, I said. I suggested that civil litigation against the caller(s) would be the way to go, and damn straight.

        Someone calls a cruise line, accusing you of planning a bioterrorism attack, your cabin and baggage are rummaged through, you’re not told of any suspicions until FBI, Hmeland and the Coast Guard shows up, you’re disembarked from the ship in view of everyone and 300 people who came and paid in part to see you speak are left wondering for a day?

        I’d call that actionable damages on many levels.

        To be clear, I don’t think the tweeters (if different people) or the one who actually wrote that tweet in question should face anything but a charge of poor judgment (for that one tweet, not the parody in general which I have zero problem with).

        With any luck, someone’ll set up a SADS (shitangrydicksays) twitter account. It would give me a good laf.

      • Also, a direct point blank question, Evelyn.

        Given the circumstances and the logical presumption that someone other than Jack made or caused that call to be made, do you think he’s not entitled to use any legal means at his disposal, including threats of litigation or the actual filing of litigation in order to find out who is behind this?

      • Anna K. says:

        Johnny, perfect summary of Evelyn.

      • Johnny says:

        I understand that you have a lot of irons in the fire today, what with Kruse and all, but let me respond to this point-by-point.

        I’m sorry that you were actually stalked / harassed. That’s awful, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

        I don’t know shit about Kruse, I don’t read his blog, he seems completely monkeyballs as far as I can tell.

        Basically, you call people frauds and liars, you put smileys on everything, and then can’t believe that you got your pretty white dress dirty while playing in the mud. It’s quite remarkable.

        On this last bit: Reading is Fundamental. I said I don’t have any actual information about the coordinated campaign to destroy you, spearheaded by Jimmy Moore. Sounds really sinister. Google doesn’t really come up with a lot on this, except for your website. I literally cannot find where Tom called you an internet stalker. Besides, you seem to have bounced back just fine, – found this while trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about:

        My problem with Tom is that he seems to have no background whatsoever to be discussing the issues on the level of the science, and yet he does. He puts forth rather absurd theories in Big Fat Fiasco that cannot go ignored for their degree of absurdity and out right false advertising to make many an infomercial host proud. He’s also afraid of me which I find hilarious.{various emoticons}

        Sounds like you’ll be okay. But while we’re talking about it, off the top of my head, let’s talk about the damaged metabolism post. That’s science, yes? How many words did you expend about J. Stanton? Then you called him a hairdresser, based on Jack Kruse’s blog, say-so. What did JS do to you? Did he call you a stalker, too?

        It’s even more awesome, because not long before that, you wrote hundreds of words calling Peter D. out for linking to Chris Masterjohn about the O-6 content of pig fat. Not a bad job, content wise. But not an airtight case from your side, either.

        So Peter references Chris Masterjohn’s blog, and in doing so makes a mistake. Couldn’t be an honest mistake. No, fuck that guy.

        You reference JACK FUCKING KRUSE, just to piss on someone before you even get to some substantive content and can’t even get that right. Whoopsie! Emoticons all around! No correction of the post, though. You’re awfully busy.

        Seriously, everyone go read that. It speaks for itself, IMHO. Everyone tell me if that’s 1) funny, or 2) written by an emotional infant.

      • Oh, Evelyn.

        You see, my commenters are as a whole some of the very smartest in the paleosphere. I ought qualify that. They’re not the ones who get into minutiae on the various strictly science blogs, which I love & salute.

        I get the wide scope thinkers.

        Good luck with that, being a deconstructionist and avoider of context.

      • Three words: false self esteem

      • “false self esteem”

        Bravo! You’re chewing on it, aren’t you? Aren’t you. Do you have any idea how effective that has been since around 1995 on people like you I’d even bother to put it out there for because I want to see their talents directed 180 degrees.

        I don’t throw pearls before swine, Evelyn.

      • Stipetic says:

        New truer words… :-)

      • Richard,

        I think you are awesome, LOVE LOVE LOVE your perfect use of the C word, but the person who called in the threat she posted on Twitter isn’t to blame. Being a NY’er she should know, if you see something say something.

        I saw the tweet and didn’t find it to be funny, much less the ‘parody’ the girls are hiding behind.

        If you can’t say bomb in an airport what makes her tweet any less of a crime? If it were never Tweeted, Lance wold have had no reason for alarm.

        And Evelyn, again, get over your self, who would stalk you, really..

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        CarbSane is the Woodward and Bernstein of the paleo/low carb world, and for that she deserves credit. She was one of the first to call BS on Gary Taubes’ science and expose any number of highly dubious ‘net personalities – from Jimmy Moore to Dana Carpender to Laura Dolson. I get it: People don’t want their heroes/saviors ‘exposed’. But, when said personages are making their livings off of lies and misrepresentations, they’re fair game. CarbSane – along with the likes of Dr. Kurt Harris, Melissa McEwen, Emily Deans, Anthony Colpo, Stephan Guyenet, and others – should be recognized for keeping ‘paleo’ firmly grounded in science. Science may not always be sexy or marketable, but it’s all we’ve got.

      • Woodward & Bernstein? With a straight face you conflate ads on Jimmy’s blog with exposing Watergate? You people are WACKJOBS.

        And you’re so jealous of the results of hard work that you can’t even see straight. Like Jimmy Moore is some devious, lazy media baron? The fat-cat in the cluttered S. Carolina spare bedroom?

        Do you have any idea how hard it is to produce that many radio shows day after day, month after month, year after year? He has worked harder and longer — like a fucking dog — to create the community, and in any other part of media he would make more and work less.

        And he doesn’t even pick sides. He respectfully interviews anyone who might reasonably have something to offer in the area, and promotes every single paleo blog that launches. He’s just trying to make the tent bigger. Is that why he should be singled out for hatred — because he doesn’t savage your enemies?

        Jimmy’s picked a small but important part of the world where one man busting his ass for years can make a difference — and he HAS. Evelyn has done nothing, exposed nothing — she’s just vicious and obsessive.

        And carb restriction was a punchline before Taubes’ NYT magazine cover story invented the “paleosphere”. Evelyn will never write an article or book that will move a culture the way Taubes has. She doesn’t have anything new to say. And she’s too nasty, too poor a writer, and too fat to be credible — at least on the subject of diet.

        She could be the Perez Hilton of paleo, though. But I guess she already is.

        Shoot for the stars, eh?

      • Sam, that was truly excellent and right up my alley.

        I also get what ELMM was saying, but it strikes me as a bit of guru cycling. “let’s keep our gurus honest, but make sure we always have gurus.”

      • Sierra says:

        Right on Sam!! Couldn’t have said it better myself! After the high school antics on PaleoQUACKS I went to Jimmy’s site and have never looked back. TONS of good information with out all the crazy-ass high school clique behavior.

      • Sonya says:

        BRAVO!! You nailed it!!

        She seems to be a miserable, unhappy person who is only happy when she’s bullying people and stalking them online. @shitjackkrusesays – how fucking mature is that?? Grow up, girl! Work half as hard as Jimmy does at making your life worth something, then maybe, just maybe you’ll not be so angry and unhappy with your own life.

      • Dracil says:

        Is there actually any evidence that’s her twitter account? Or are we just spreading rumors as truth here?

      • Dracil:

        Who’s we? I remain absolutely ignorant about who is behind the SKS twitter account, and the phone tip off.

        I have no opinion or speculation about whether or not Evelyn was involved in any way. I’m prepared to let it all sort itself out.

      • Dracil says:

        “We” was mainly directed at Sonya, hence the direct reply to her, but it seemed that Kruse had been indirectly accusing her with his female in NYC comment as well, so I just genericized it to anyone making that claim.

      • I don’t know whether my previous message got lost in the satellite transmission or if you got pissed because I posted a link to my blog inside the message. If it’s the second, I apologize, and I won’t do that again.

        First, let me mention: I am on the ship. We (the low carb cruise group) experienced some confusion over what happened with Dr. Kruse, but none of us knew as much as you guys did until we received a letter from the Captain explaining the situation. You already know more than we do, so no need to comment any further on that.

        I would, however like to comment on CS aka Evelyn. Now, she is certainly entitled to her opinion, but I’ll just mention what I have observed for the past two days and last year’s cruise as well. Jimmy spends a huge amount of his time promoting ***other*** people, and not just when he’s on his podcast or writing his blog. He is never slow to share the limelight with anyone who he thinks will be helpful to the low carb community. His sense of generosity is legendary, even when he’s being criticized by many who really don’t matter. Jack Kruse was to have been our first speaker, so Jimmy and his committee had to get into high gear and figure out how to fill that time for those of us who were there to learn something. So, instead of getting up front and wearing out our ears with his own theories, comments, etc., he took that opportunity to get many cruisers who had something to promote (a book, a new blog, a product) up there in front of the audience and they each had ten minutes to tell their stories.

        Just imagine from what you know of Jimmy, how many people would step up today and say “Jimmy helped me” and how many would step up and say “CS helped me.” I don’t really think any “sane” person would believe that number would be higher for CS than for Jimmy. That’s too bad, too, because CS is really bright. If only she weren’t so busy tearing people down.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Sam: Woodward and Bernstein may have been too extreme a comparison; rather think Denise Minger taking down the China Study… But I must say this is all rather disorienting, Richard. Alienating brilliant people like Kurt and Melissa only to champion Cracker Jack Box intellectuals like Jack Kruse and Kevin-Trudeau-of-Carbs Jimmy Moore? Be that as it may, I must commend you on the “Fat Bastard” appellation. Utter genius.

      • I like to think of Carbsane as the Squeaky Fromme of the Paleo/low-carb world.

      • Sorry gharkness. Your comment just got caught in the spam filter for some reason. I just put it through. No problem for legit comments to link back to their own blogs with info.

      • Thank you!

      • Leigh says:

        That’s what has really helped me decide which blogs/forums I read and which I don’t. The crazy high school clique behavior. I mean … seriously? I was astounded when I first saw it being engaged in by paleo bloggers with science backgrounds.

        I still am.

      • Paul C says:

        The audience here is willing to look past harshness and what appears at first to be disrespect if the content behind the words has value and sincerity. I’m willing to do that with Evelyn, in order to add to my personal vision of a more complete picture.

      • Me too, Paul.

        I even said in the post that her voice ought to be one of the voices out there. She seems to find it necessary to go after other Paleo or LC folks. Fine. Maybe it will do all of us some good. I’m just not sure it will do her any good.

        At a point, I think, you have to offer some positive things for people to do and experiment with in order to advance their lives in a better way, and the comments and emails from people thanking you for the help goes a long way toward making the endeavor worthwhile.

  15. Barbara says:

    “Some people seem to have the notion that if something is not of particular value to them, then it’s a dis-value—not only to them, but by projection and extension, a dis-value to everyone, and a blight on the universe itself.”

    Richard, this is exactly what you do when it concerns Christianity! Now you decry this tendency in others. You have much of value to offer to others in what you say about nutrition but when you segue off, as you so often do, into rants against what others value, you show your prejudice and ignorance. I know you don’t see this in yourself but it’s there. I hope this won’t piss you off too much but I will pray for you!!

    • Barbara

      First, I thank you and respect you for your prayers on my behalf and I would be a _total_ ass to not.

      And, I also respect your criticism, saw it coming and congratulate you for being the first to call me on a seeming inconsistency.

      My defense, for what it’s worth, is that an overreaching philosophic fantasy that’s even encoded into law over hundreds of years is not quite the same thing as a dietary & health regime a lot of people, like myself, are trying to advance,

      We could only wish that Paleo was 100th as strong as Christianity. Then, when that happens, you can call me Kurt Harris.

      • “We could only wish that Paleo was 100th as strong as Christianity.”

        Just start killing the Vegans and SAD eaters and that should help us enormously.

      • labbygail says:

        I’m a regular reader despite the repeated insults to organized religion. What I gather is that you think it’s stupid to believe it all literally, but that religion has value as a metaphor and for its ability to create community. So I never feel like you’re insulting my values.

        In this world of cities and the internet, the only way I’ve found to have a “tribe” is through religion. And there’s a certain amount of trade-off between how many rules you have to be willing to follow and how much the members of the tribe take care of each other. There are some things I don’t believe in, but I do them anyway because it’s the price of being part of the community. I could have married out, but I “blinked” and married in. It is what it is.

      • “What I gather is that you think it’s stupid to believe it all literally, but that religion has value as a metaphor and for its ability to create community. So I never feel like you’re insulting my values.”

        You are correct.

  16. I just started to read the “Kruse” post yesterday in hopes of learning more about CT because I’m really interested in the subject matter. I would say I’m only a tenth of the way through, but it’s like high school all over again. It’s cool that you don’t moderate and let people rant and rave, Richard. It is a bitch, however, trying to sift through all the shit trying to find the pertinent info for the topic.

    I really like that about Mark Sisson. It’s pretty clear by his titles, of his daily articles, what you’re getting and the info is there without all the extras. Same for Kresser or Guyenet for those that I follow. But I don’t think that’s why we come to your blog. I like that you’re a normal dude who doesn’t mince his words and puts out thought-provoking articles. I think some of the shit you say is bullshit, but thats 100% healthy and how it should be. Don’t apologize for being yourself because that’s one of your biggest drawls.

    In the immortal words of George Carlin, “fuck the fuckin’ fuckers!”

    • Todd,

      You’re my new best friend for at least the next 10 minutes or so.

      Love the comment, I think I love the ones best that poke at me some, but understand the overall thing.

      Thank you.

    • I think Richard is the Howard Stern of the paleo movement.

      For those that actually listen to Howard realize that he is smart, talented, rational, controlled, logical, and has the brass cajones to be innovative. As opposed to the haters who don’t listen and just dislike him becuase of the misperception that he is just about strippers and lesbians — which are fun, no doubt, but that is the tip of the iceberg.

      And, most importantly, they both entertain the hell out of you.

      Stay ballsy and honest, Richard.

  17. I am posting from the ship. It certainly has been interesting! Two days of conference done; amazing stuff – Denise Minger was worth the entire cost of the cruise, for me.

    I have posted the entire text of the Captain’s message as he explained it to us at my blog: http://nequals1health.com

    • Very interesting. I had assumed that Masterjohn and Melissa were no longer an item because they never tweet back and forth as they did before. But no idea he and Denise Minger have hooked up.

      • Well, I guess the word’s out now! Though I didn’t realize it wasn’t “common knowledge,” or maybe I would have been more circumspect. I assume if they had wanted to be quiet about it, they wouldn’t have kissed in front of us.

  18. isn’t it just a bit worrisome that the people who have guns and the authoritah to use them on anybody at anytime, including alleged terrorists, couldn’t tell the difference between the Real Jack Kruse and a twitter account with a picture of Nick Riviera from The Simpsons (Who got his degree from Hollywood Upstairs Medical College) and a string of tweets so nonsensical they could only come from…wait a second…d’oh. Is Real Kruse account not verified like some celebrities?

  19. MoreAnon says:

    “the comments were to me just seething with spite, envy, and whatever other unhealthy piling on and emotions you can name…as though dog-pile tearing something down of value—irrespective of the warts and pimples on the person who created it—is somehow more noble, creative, hard-working, and value driven than the creating, itself.”

    Amen. Moore, like Kruse and Sisson, is an entrepreneur. Moore has turned his website into a business and may yet get a syndicated radio show from his podcast. The leeches always hate the value-creators. Sisson never says anything bad about anyone – nor does Kruse say bad things about More – or vice versa – because the entrepreneurs have respect for value. They understand what it takes to make a business.

    And so should we all.

  20. It is funny that Jack has been claiming that the FBI traced the ip addresses to New York, Chicago, and Boston (Carbsane, Melissa, Kamal), but when Melissa called the FBI they said they haven’t looked at any IP addresses and that she wasn’t under investigation. Kruse said the “ringleader” was a lady in New York (Carbsane.) Kruse is just a BS artist. That is his whole shtick.

    The tweet came from a satire/parody feed that had a picture of Dr. Nick from the Simpsons. Satire/parody of a public figure is one of the most protected types of free speech there is. Jack is going around talking about Federal charges and 20 year prison sentences for any person that ever tweeted a message at #ShitKruseSays. If this wasn’t a publicity stunt on Kruse’s part, his actions after the fact do start to make it appear that way.

    • Good luck getting fake reports of terrorism considered “protected speech.”

      Now go back to PaleoHacks so Melissa can vote up your post.

      • Sierra says:

        Or delete your account if you disagree with her. Happened to a FB friend of mine.

      • What fake report of terrorism came from #ShitKruseSays? Kruse himself bragged of an “epic bio-hack” with MRSA. Why would a parody of an “epic bio-hack” with another type of bacteria be considered terrorism?

        Whoever called the cruise line falsely reported terrorism. #ShitKruseSays did not report terrorism. Not all of Kruse’s critics are the guy named “Lance” that called the cruise line.

      • #ShitKruseSays stated that there was going to be an attempt at terrorism on the cruise. You say “Obvious parody,” but if you state that there is going to be an “epic bio-hack” on a cruise with a couple of thousand people, you WILL get investigated, regardless of whether you meant it in jest, just as if you posted that you were going to carry a 10 megaton NUCULAR BOMB through airport security.

        I think you know damned well the identity of “#ShitKruseSays” otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to justify what that person did.

      • Yea, Rob. Right on.

      • “#ShitKruseSays stated that there was going to be an attempt at terrorism on the cruise”

        “Security confiscated dynamite. talk won’t be as explosive as one at PaleoFx. still have vial of Legionnaires for epic biohack. #lccruise12.”

        So, a picture of Dr. Nick from The Simpsons, a name like #ShitKruseSays, a stream of parody comments for weeks prior to this one, a mention that security confiscated his dynamite and apparently sent him on his way, and we are supposed to wring our hands over “implied” terrorism, but when Dr. Kruse, neurosurgeon, himself brags about culturing a bioweapon at home, then that is all just good fun?

        The twitter feed had a relatively small group of followers who understood that it was all parody. One of them apparently decided to be a dick. That has nothing to with the Twitter feed.

        I have nothing to do with the feed. I just think it is hypocritical to be attacking free speech on FTA.

      • The twitter feed had a relatively small group of followers who understood that it was all parody. One of them apparently decided to be a dick. That has nothing to with the Twitter feed.

        ===

        How do you know that, and more importantly how is law enforcement supposed to know that? There is no way they can determine whether it had anything to do with the Twitter feed without conducting an investigation. If there was communication between the person who posted the tweet and the person who made the call then it is entirely possible that both of them committed a crime. There is no way to know without investigating.

      • “How do you know that, and more importantly how is law enforcement supposed to know that?”

        Law enforcement can investigate away, but at face value, having a parody feed poking fun at a public figure is not a crime, and a lot of people seem to be jumping on the bandwagon that the tweet itself was a crime or should be punished. Richard is suggesting Jack spend $100K on a civil suit. Jack claimed that Carbsane, Melissa, and Kamal are the tweeters and they going to be up on federal charges and face 20 years in prison if they ever tweeted through that feed, even if they didn’t personally tweet the tweet in question.

        I think there is a big difference between someone who called the cruise line and actually mentioned terrorism and between somebody tweeting a bunch of parody tweets, but many people seem to be conflating these. Like I said, I think it is hypocritical to be attacking the free speech of the tweeter on FTA.

        If the tweeter was involved in calling the cruise line, then that would be a different, but there doesn’t seem to be any indication of this, other than maybe Jack lying about the FBI tracking ip addresses and him trying to implicate his critics in wrongdoing.

      • “M”, your endless attempts to make Kruse the bad guy in this are getting boring, as is your pretending not to know that no one gives a shit about the Twitter account. The issue is the phony call reporting the “terrorist threat.”

      • “is your pretending not to know that no one gives a shit about the Twitter account. The issue is the phony call reporting the “terrorist threat.”

        I agree that the issue the phony call, but some people do apparently do “give a shit” about the Twitter account. Kruse said that these people are going to federal prison for up to 20 years, and he apparently lied about certain critics being the ones responsible for the account. Kruse called the lady in NY the ringleader (Carbsane) of the Twitter account and said that Melissa and Kamal were involved (so far Carbsane and Melissa have denied this). He even lied about the FBI tracing ip addresses to their home towns.

        I assume these were the “3 cunts” that Richard felt compelled to tweet about, so apparently he did “give a shit” about the tweeters at some point, or else he would have talked about the “1 cunt” that phoned in the terrorist threat instead of the “3 cunts” that Kruse lied about. Sam and Rob above seem to think the twitter account is guilty of something, or else they would not have replied.

        Sorry to bore you. Please continue with the circle jerk.

      • For the record, the only thng I advised Jack to do was diffuse any criminal case. I suggested that instead, he take it civil if he wanted his pound of flesh.

      • blah blah blah

        No one ever gave a shit about the Twitter account and you know it.

        And I think Richard knows he used the word “cunt.”

        I also think he’s not going to be as apologetic as you might want him to be.

        Please continue licking Evelyn’s anus.

      • “No one ever gave a shit about the Twitter account and you know it.”

        That’s a blatant and obvious lie and you know it. Good job.

      • Leigh says:

        Not quite. Kruse said that the FBI dude told him such cases carry 10-20 years, but did not specify whether he was referring to the tweeters or the caller, IIRC. He implied CS was “one of the ringleaders” of the attack criticism (as opposed to factual critique) against him, and implied that those ringleaders were likely behind the twitter account, but made no implications about the caller.

        We have no facts, at this point, about whether he lied about the IP addresses, if Melissa did, or if the FBI agent did.

        Most people on Kruse’s forum agree that the caller is the issue here, not the tweeters.

      • Leigh says:

        My reply about the tweets & caller above was responding to M.’s post on 5/8 @ 20:50.

      • I think M is correct here. It’s not that people didn’t care about the tweets, but that the actual phone call rises way, way above that.

        Personally, having a day to think about it, the tweet thing is just a dumb move, even for parody, to imply a bioterrorism threat in this day and age. I never read the tweet stream myself, but I assume that taken in full context it’s obviously set up to be parody. It’s not like it was one isolated tweet out there.

      • And this is how we know this is all a crock of shit dreamed up to get out of the cruise engagement, get publicity, and/or intimidate his critics. If there was some legitimate case the FBI, HS, and the Coast Guard were all called in on, and Jack gave the FBI my name, why have I not been at least contacted?

        Jack cannot diffuse any criminal case if he wanted to. The FBI doesn’t need Jack’s permission or testimony to prosecute a legit “cyber attack” or terror threat. This isn’t a he said she said sexual harassment case. Think on that everyone. So there’s nothing he can diffuse, he can only escalate intimidation through threatening legal action. If he plans to pursue civil action he’d need evidence from a criminal investigation. So you don’t want him to send anyone to jail, just use his money to drag their reputation through the mud to no good end.

        There’s no there there Richard. The sooner you disassociate yourself with this, the better, but nobody’s gonna tell you what to do.

      • You can’t know any of this, Evelyn.

        What we know is there’s that tweet–dumb, but no biggie and I doubt FBI would focus on that. But we also know that someone actually called. We know that Carnival took it seriously enough to get authorities involved and even after being cleared, to boot Kruse anyway.

        If the caller used a modicum of care in making his call anonymous, ie placing it from a public place, it may be impossible for anyone to ever find who did it.

        I should not have to tell you that absence of evidence is not evidence. You’re the one with science acumen, remember?

      • Leigh, in some of Jack’s own tweets he specifically said that Carbsane would be up for cyber stalking charges and impersonation charges if she had any involvement in the Twitter account and could be subject to 20 years of “federal time” for the tweets. I can’t link to the tweets from here at work, but read Jack’s tweets from yesterday morning. He was clearly talking about the tweeters.

      • I have never public named any person at all. This is a total falsehood. The FBI confirmed to me the Tweet is what caused all of this Sunday at 3:30 PM.

      • Get help Jack. Seriously. Anyone with a clue knows you were talking about /targeting me. That the FBI would be talking to the supposed ring leader. No knock on door yet.

      • And if he was serious, instead of wanting some sort of “pound of flesh”, he’d help the authorities in a criminal case and be done. Idle threats drive page hits tho’ I suppose.

      • I disagree, Evelyn. Nobody was really hurt. Jack’s a big guy. He’s reasonably due some satisfaction and compensation for what happened. That’s best a civil matter and if the guy has no assets, well, a judgment is some satisfaction and I doubt Jack needs the money.

        I’d hate to see anyone locked up over it.

      • Jack said -> “I have never public named any person at all. This is a total falsehood.”

        Jack did tweet a link to one of Carbsane’s tweets (“Hope Jack doesn’t infect himself with norovirus and use CT prior to the LC Cruise!”) and labeled it #smokinggun. (7:38am May 12). From wikipedia: The term “smoking gun” was originally, and is still primarily, a reference to an object or fact that serves as conclusive evidence of a crime or similar act.

        Whether he “named” her might be semantics, but he did point his twitter finger at her. You can argue whether he was justified in pointing his twitter finger at her or not, but he did point his twitter finger at her.

      • Date/time on the referenced tweet above should have said 7:38 am – May 8

      • For an innocent, you ‘defend’ your self a bit much… Take a chill, your cortisol must be thru the roof with all the hatred you hold in your heart for everyone.. It’s not healthy and is keeping you fat.

      • We got the tape and the caller and have the tape from Carnival security……non paleo person, in fact 320 lbs according to my NY atty. Carry on with your BS.

    • We’ll probably never know who was behind it unless charges are filed because the investigation is not part of the public record.

      Makes for great theater though … it’s like radio where stations go to war with one another … BloggerDome, Two Bloggers Enter, One Blogger Leaves

    • M

      Bullshit.

      If you were actully on a cruise ship, ready to embark for a week to places with delightful browned-skinned women, got your room and luggage ransacked, eventually hauled off the ship, you’d do every mutherfucking thing you could to create a shitstorm.

      But, you can’t, because you go by M, and nobody gives a single living fuck on a small planet and bit universe about you.

      You’re nothing, a pip, because that’s what you choose to be.

      • “you’d do every mutherfucking thing you could to create a shitstorm”

        But why lie about the FBI tracing ip addresses to Chicago, Boston, and New York?

      • Probably because he was pissed off. The FBI isn’t exactly forthcoming when it comes to sharing information, probably they said something about being able to discover IP addresses and in his pissed off state he assumed it would be traced back to his internet enemies.

        Whether he was totally rational at the time is beside the point, what matters is that someone tweeted that there was going to be some kind of biological event on a cruise ship, and someone else (or maybe the same person or someone acting in concert with the tweeter) then phoned in a report of a threat.

        The number of people who followed that twitter feed is probably quite limited. Eventually the FBI will discover the identity of the tweeter and every follower. What they will want to know is whether the caller was the tweeter, or maybe one of the followers of the tweet feed. And whether there was any communication between the two other than on twitter.

        It is all very unfortunate but if you don’t want your life thrown into turmoil then you should avoid doing exceptionally stupid things.

      • +1 rob. Jack is supposed to remain above reproach because “we have our doubts about him,” and everyone gets to do anything, including accuse him of fuckimg terrorism, but if he makes a single misstep in the aftermath, it’s “see, I toldja.”

      • Bullshit/lying is Jack’s modus operandi – the FBI traced the ip addresses to Carbsane’s, Melissa’s, and Kamal’s hometowns – Carbsane is the ringleader – they face 20 years in federal prison if they even tweeted a single tweet from the parody account – avocados brown because of their 06 content – kale is high in vitamin K2 – you can’t eat bananas in winter because of neuropeptide Y – you can change your DNA with your thoughts – etc, etc, etc….

      • blah – blah – blah – blah – blah – blah – blah –

        Fake terrorist threat

        I SUNK YOUR BATTLESHIP.

      • What if a Jack Kruse follower made the phone call? Wouldn’t that blow everyones mind?

      • Leigh says:

        Duri@nrider did it. Luvz him some bananaz.

      • Alexandra says:

        Bob.. maybe a fake (or is it?) threat to another gathering would be OK too, what if it’s to your child’s school? the office where you work? maybe the airplane your mother is flying on? Since there is no way to know without investigating, all threats of this type must be taken seriously, do you not see that?

    • Folks, the authorities don’t comment on pending investigations. What someone may indeed have said, or what the interpretation of what they said was, should not be taken as gossip here, as the parties reporting it all have a bias one way or another. Everyone needs to chill out about this and stop speculating about what the authorities are or are not doing.

      • Whoah! But if we stopped speculating we would be forced to get on about living life and dancing to different drummers and what-not.

        How dare you suggest such!

      • The FBI will not talk about any of this and anyone who says otherwise is FOS.

      • Hey Jack. Appreciate you wading in.

        As someone who’s been both a witness and subject of government investigation (hey, I had a company that does bus in 50 states, goes with the territory), people have no idea of:

        1. They take a fuck of a long time. Statute of limitations is apparently their only deadline.

        2. They not only won’t tell you anything, but if they do, they are free to lie to you, even to scare you into giving them more info.

      • Q: How long will it take Evelyn to take #1 and try to look up any dirt she can. Let’s set the stopwatch, shall we?

      • hey not only won’t tell you anything

        So Jack’s a liar claiming he knows IP’s of the supposed culprits, or even that the penalty for unspecified charges is 15-20 years.

        Yeah, Jack, go to civil court, diffuse criminal charges. BMOC’s both.

        Oh wait, that’s something youngsters might not know. BMOC = Big Man On Campus. Ya know the chest pufferupperers.

      • Including to you. Dr. FOS. However, I can state definitively they have NOT talked to me.

    • So, the FBI freely discussed an open investigation of Bioterrorism with Melissa M. Really? That smacks with authenticity.

  21. “You get to decide.”

    That is one of the most respectful/loving things we humans can do for each other.

    People that protect me from information make me nervous. VERY nervous. I realize other people gravitate toward that (my former wife for instance). I have long been done trying to figure out anyone but myself so I have lost my “Why the fuck” question.

    As far as how you see yourself…

    The shit stirrer? You seem to passionate and intense for that act. You stick around, converse, and see it to the near end. It seems to me, you gather the chiefs (?) from all tribes. Provide them a table, food, spirits, and drop the lines that get the convos going. Fire starter perhaps. Fire purifies.

    But that is all a bit melodramatic so let me move along.

    I require blogs that I read to have the ability to weave stories, play with language, and merge all areas of life together. Just like having my fill of processed foods I have long had my fill of processed blogs.

    I am smart enough to decide. If not, I am aware enough to know I fucked up and human enough to change course.

    • Beautiful, JSScott.

      Nobody has the level of commenters I have. Nobody. I have veritable poets as commenters,

    • Makes me think of Loki, considered one of the most complex characters in mythology but also often reduced to the epithet, “the trickster god”

  22. ah, I was wrong, it was the people with the umbrella’d drinks and floating decks of old people who couldn’t distinguish between ” Hel-Lo Everybooody!” and the real Kruse.

    • Nandalal

      I surely realize that part of this is about overreaction and incmpetence On the part of authorities n general.

      However, their incompetence does not excuse the malice that got things going, and if the tweet wasn’t really meant maliciously, the phone tip certainly was.

  23. I just laughed at all of this. Thanks Richard. That’s all. Nothing else left to say.

    • Ha, I’m crunching non-paleo popcorn as I’m typing this :D
      It’s really unfortunate for the involved parties, but it’s so damn funny.

  24. Several years ago, Before-Paleo (B.P.), I belonged to several gluten-free/celiac forums. I’ve also belonged to many horse-related forums. Times have changed and instead of forums, I mostly read blogs (Post-Paleo). Each area deteriorated over time to the same backbiting, bitter nastiness we see happening in the paleosphere. I can’t put my finger on the exact reason, but it seems to be something related to self-appointed “leaders” being threatened by new ideas. The celiac forums hated the gluten-sensitives – how dare we say that everyone is harmed by gluten? That would threaten the exclusivity of being a celiac. The carriage driving forum I belonged to had a group that hated the non-traditional drivers – how dare we use beta-biothane instead of hard-to-clean leather? Now, paleo. How many times have we seen people declare this or that is not paleo? What the hell? It’s like people think there is an actual list out there somewhere designed by some paleo god. The first attack came from vegans. Remember Sisson had to start monitoring forums because of vegan stalkers? The next attack seemed to be against Taubes. The man wrote a damn good book. Maybe he made some mistakes, but it is still a damn good book with damn good research. The latest, of course, is Kruse. I don’t know what to make of Kruse. He is either crazy or a genius, but I don’t think he is the threat to humanity that some seem to claim. I don’t get it. Richard, when I read your first post about this a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised at the bitterness and vehemence directed towards Kruse in the comments. People, if you don’t like him, ignore him. We don’t need to be protected by you, no matter how more intelligent you think you are than the masses. And maybe that is the crux of the matter – some people think they are so much more intelligent than the rest of us that they feel the need to guide us. No thanks. I’ll make up my own mind.

    • Laurie. Word.

    • sierra says:

      Bravo Laurie!! I totally agree. I have a friend who was new to paleo so was checking out lots of websites for info and went on to paleoQUACKS to learn about paleo. She had been reading posts for a few months and then at one point they were bashing the hell out of Kruse so she posted just what you said “if you don’t like him ignore him.” Well that started a shit storm!! Melissa asserted her “power as an admin” and closed my friend’s account. Melissa happened to be particularly pissed off because Kruse got asked to speak at a conference that she had applied to speak at–and got denied (poor little girl). I saw her dissing Kruse on her website, on facebook & on paleoQUACKS. So I think my friend hit a real nerve by defending Kruse. But closing her account and then spreading lies about her because Melissa was called out on her shit? SERIOUSLY?????? Yeah that’s paleoQUACKS! And that’s what happens when someone doesn’t mature emotionally. They have to try to have power over others because they are so fragile inside.

      • Most whiny comment I’ve ever encountered on FTA.

      • sierra says:

        blah blah blah….

      • Chris says:

        Melissa McEwen. Ugh. God. SOO hot. I want to say negative things about her but my primal brain is jibbering too loudly.

      • I also ended up on the wrong end of Melissa’s banhammer for calling out the negativity and near-slander being said of Kruse (who, mind you, I find to be completely crazy). The mods over there dropped the ball and let the comments go too far (and participated in such comments). You don’t have to like Kruse’s ideas, but at least be civil, which the anonymity of PH allows.

    • Chris says:

      Yeah, people are like that. In all walks of life. Fans of the Halo video games get pretty vicious over whether or not Reach even has good graphics; at any gym there are going to be two guys staunchly supporting or denying the benefits/dangers of Crossfit; and then of course there are sports fans. I think I can see now where Richard’s vehemence towards what he might call regurgitators comes from. It is plainly annoying, and in my mind, plainly blocking progress.

      But again, such is the nature of people.

  25. Debbie,

    As far as the laughing goes, I’m right on board.

    I’m a college student, so I’m not quite sure I’ve been classified as an “adult” long enough to warrant grown-up status and thus have a valid opinion. Nevertheless, as a youngin’, I’ve got a particular perspective on this variety of vitriol, which looks a hell of a lot like the facebook wars regarding “bitches,” “hoes,” and “assholes” (Oh my!) in which my peers engage so frequently. That, and this, are downright ridiculous. I’ve got so many thoughts zipping through my brain that absolutely refuse to articulate themselves in something more defined than a collective mental grunt/growl/roar reminiscent of a Yetti call. (Something like this: EEEERAAAAAARRWWRRRRRFFFFFFFF.) With that in mind, I’ll just say this: RELAX. Everybody, just calm the fuck down. Pissing on each others’ shoes –or, as Mr. Nikoley so aptly put it, searching for proverbial pimples on the asses a couple of feet above those shoes– is not doing anyone a lick of good. I’m a biology major who loves geek-speak, so I’m up for clubbing people with science text books, but the sake of all things good and reasonable, do it in a manner that does not resemble a group of pre-pubescent schoolchildren with a thesaurus and an inferiority complex. I like this blog as well as the work of Melissa McEwen, Emily Deans, and Carbsane. You’re all on the same side of the battle-line; there’s no need for petty arguments and blogosphere combat.

    This is just one guy’s opinion, but I think this is pretty nonsensical. If you want to sit in a cold bath, sit in the damn cold bath–I do it every once in a while as a test of mental fortitude. Discuss, don’t fume. Critique, don’t bitch. Help people who want help and stop kicking each other in the jewels.

    Thank you for what you do (all of you),
    -Ian

    P.S. Mr. Nikoley, I’m sorry to hear about your cousin. He lived his life the way I want to live mine–if I ever get out of school, that is.

    • Ian, first, thank you sir for your condolences. It was the hardest, closest death I have yet to sustain and I’ve lived through the death of a great grandmother who lived into my late 20s and all 4 grandparents, 3 of which lasted into my late 30s.

      I love seeing such perspective and wisdom from a yongun. And I just got out of 55 degrees for 40 minutes so I’m suitably chilled.

      Finally, call me Richard, or Cunt. :)

    • :-) @Ian
      And to Richard, so sorry about the loss of your cousin. He looked like a kick ass soul. As are you.
      xo
      deb

  26. I heard once that there is only narrative, data, and methods. Most of the bullshitting that goes on seems like narrative to me. Kruse has some interesting methods and data.

  27. Qatro says:

    Why do they hate Dr. Kruse so much that they want to destroy him? There have even been comments at Paleo Hacks about reporting him to the Tenn. medical board and trying to get his license yanked. The guy may be a bit arrogant and eccentric, but he has also helped a whole lot of people for free. He has given of his time and advice without charge for a long time and people have benefited from it. Oh, and where’s Kamal in all of this? He’s been unccharacteristically silent.

    • Joseph says:

      Why do they hate Dr. Kruse so much that they want to destroy him? There have even been comments at Paleo Hacks about reporting him to the Tenn. medical board and trying to get his license yanked.

      Hell Hath No Fury Like a Woman…

      Actually, that about covers it. :-)

  28. Jay Jay says:

    I’m also offended with the use of the word “cunt” to describe these people.

    It does a disservice to cunts everywhere.

    Cunts have a certain level of intelligence, and know how to use their bodily parts in combination with their cunning to the benefit of themselves.

    A better term for these people is “crazy ass bitches.”

  29. I am just curious about something though:

    How does Jacky know that it is a “her” that is behind the Twitter feed? Seems a bit paranoid to me. Then again, if my ass got hauled off a boat, I’d be paranoid too, and pissed off to boot.

    To tell you the truth, I am already pretty fucking bored of the story. I have better things to do than debate on who has a bigger dick/cunt than who. I could give two shits about he said/she said. All I care about is getting information about nutrition/dieting (especially in the case of what may work for a diabetic.)

    All of this “action” takes away from what really matters, the sharing of a community mind. Do I give two shits what Kruse thinks? Nope.

    I care about facts, and even the distortion of facts – with some personality behind them. Like Richard’s blog here. There isn’t much bullshit here for the sake of bullshit. There’s facts, information, experiments – and that’s about it.

    There isn’t drama for the sake of drama – much anyway. In Kruse’s case, this only really helps him – as his name is now on everyone’s lips for the next few minutes.

  30. Since commenting has been encouraged to be often and longwinded I thought this appropriate for both this post and the tribute to Jorge. If I am anything it is appropriate.

    I give you ClueTrain:

    “We die.

    You will never hear those words spoken in a television ad. Yet this central fact of human existence colors our world and how we perceive ourselves within it.

    “Life is too short,” we say, and it is. Too short for office politics, for busywork and pointless paper chases, for jumping through hoops and covering our asses, for trying to please, to not offend, for constantly struggling to achieve some ever-receding definition of success. Too short as well for worrying whether we bought the right suit, the right breakfast cereal, the right laptop computer, the right brand of underarm deodorant.

    Life is too short because we die. Alone with ourselves, we sometimes stop to wonder what’s important, really. Our kids, our friends, our lovers, our losses? Things change and change is often painful. People get “downsized,” move away, the old neighborhood isn’t what it used to be. Children get sick, get better, get bored, get on our nerves. They grow up hearing news of a world more frightening than anything in ancient fairy tales. The wicked witch won’t really push you into the oven, honey, but watch out for AK-47s at recess.

    Amazingly, we learn to live with it.”

    http://www.cluetrain.com/book/apocalypso.html

  31. StoneAgeMom says:

    Just thought I’d throw it out there that my husband got a $463 disorderly conduct ticket for calling the woman in the lost luggage room a “cunt.” She refused to look in the second room for a lost bag. That’s where the bag was, btw.

    • Worth every penny, I bet.

      Let me know if the Police State ever goes away, I’d like to visit my homeland at least once more before I die.

    • I don’t think this video could ever be posted enough times:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

      “We’re talking about words”

      • Wow.

        That was a quarter-century ago, and he had it nailed cold!

      • Sean, I’m going to go ahead and do a short post featuring this video, and a couple of other things.

        Wait until you see the title. It could not be anything else.

      • Groovy!

      • It just went up for the cunts.

      • Shelley says:

        Where have I been that I’ve never seen that video! Thanks!

        When someone takes action to limit what others say, do, or think, and you do not speak out against that for what is their right (e.g., Dr. Kruse and his right to do whatever; JM and his right to advertise whatever); then what happens when they come to limit what you say, do, or think? Who will be there to protect your rights?

        Can’t wait to see the blog on this one.

      • I just came across it a few months ago. I love how unflappable Zappa stays getting attacked from three sides.

      • Shelley says:

        Sean, what are you doing in Prague? (maybe if I read your bio I’d find out). For whatever reason, I’ve always wanted to go there…maybe one day. Anyhoo…blog about it sometime so that I can live vicariously through you. pictures of the scenery, too, please!!

      • Actually stay tuned here on FTA and you’ll find out ;)

      • Yea, Sean, and any smart, informed person will recognize why he did that.

        You don’t try to shout down chimpanzees.

      • That’s right. Sean is going to be the first of the super-value-add-commentersd who do a guest post.

        I have Gallier2 and Nigel in the queue, even if I have to twist their cunt arms.

      • I’m far too busy having fun to write anything for your blog, let alone mine!

      • I have a conundrum here. What was done to me will be found in justice. What kind of justice, I am unsure as yet. But I have a consciousness about the movement that this “twatter” undermined by the actions said. They people who are complicit in this are crafting a message that my response has damaged the movement. Quite the contrary……the “twat” opened that can of worms. I have to protect that emotion in spite of my anger, because the movement and helping others is part of my mission. The ‘respected leaders’ have to back “paleo the movement”, but neurosurgery pays my bills, so I must protect my house first and foremost. I have hired peopel to do just that on Sunday night as I was driven back to Houston after being removed from the boat. The first person I called was Robb Wolf because I knew what he was crafting was just hit with a torpedo from the “in paleo crowd”. The respected leaders forget to easily, because Paleo pays their bills. But I promise you the “twat” who opened that account will be found and prosecuted in the court of law and in the court of public opinion. To those who fed that ‘twatter’ account……..hire someone now, because the law says if you fed it……..you own it because of what happened. See consequences do matter when the federal government resources are wasted. And if they choose not do deal with it I have plenty of time and money to follow up to see to it that the rest of this community knows precisely who put our message at risk. When you came after me you opened the door, my response is called defense.

      • Shelley says:

        JK: I wouldn’t back down either, just keep doing what you’re doing, and the rest of the pack will fall out. I liked your blog about only looking forward. I hope I never need you for brain surgery, but I do love Nashville, except for the food! Wow – talk about trying to eat healthy in Nashville – cheap American beer and fried bologna sandwiches! any other restaurant suggestions?

      • Come clean Jack. You are lying. You lied in your TV interviews and you know it, or you really really need help. Get help.

      • It’s good for the neurosurgery business sorry to say.

      • Melissa says:

        After actually speaking to the FBI agent investigating the case (I called because you insinuated they were investigating me, which they aren’t), it’s clear you are going to have to use a lot of your money because they don’t really care about who made SKS. They do care about finding the person who contacted Carnival, that is their main concern at this point.

        If anyone wants to read Robb Wolf’s real thoughts, they are here
        http://paleohacks.com/questions/130441/meta-whats-the-deal-with-paleohacks-dr-kruse-and-t.html#answer-130770
        As for what the leaders are doing, it’s not a coincidence that Kevin Cottrell, your buddy in the twitter/FB witchhunt, has been ousted from the paleoFX board.

        Also maybe you should listen to your lawyer (or the “peopel” you hired) and the FBI agent and stop threatening people online? I suppose that now that you know that SKS wasn’t me or Evelyn or Emily, you want to make a landmark case out of it and prosecute anyone who retweeted and followed it.

      • Melissa says:

        Also HI FBI! It’s so hilarious that Richard is feeding you comment threads from his website for investigation fodder since he’s so against big brother! Not that I actually believe you are reading this, since you guys didn’t really seem to care very much. I bet that comment thread is still sitting on your desk while you deal with actual things. If you are reading this, I’m sorry I had to explain banana jokes , Twitter, and paleo to you. You seemed to be very amused and thought it was a cult. Maybe I didn’t do such a good job.

      • You know what? You’re not a cunt, your an ASSHOLE!! Go away and do the world a favor..

      • yea he is going to talk to you when he gave the media a no comment like 99 times……are you fucking crazy to believe your BS. No one but the quacks at PH do

      • Someone who hates you has 3 reasons to do so, they see you as a threat, they hate themselves, or they want to be you…….I can play any hand dealt

      • Melissa says:

        Wait, I thought I was supposed to be a suspect? Why wouldn’t he talk to me then? He definitely did talk to me. You can ask him. I told him about your TedX talk. I guess you forgot to mention your MRSA to him. Your friend Kevin can tell you that I’ve talked to him, I have his main number.

      • “They do care about finding the person who contacted Carnival, that is their main concern at this point.”

        Thank you Melissa. Just what I figured (why my tweet when I was pissed was such a fuck up).

        Please feel free to add any facts you find out.

      • “It’s so hilarious that Richard is feeding you comment threads from his website for investigation fodder since he’s so against big brother!”

        Not so fast. I’m an anarchist, but I don’t generally care who mets out justice if it’s real justice in my view.

        My blog is just my blog. FBI or anyone is entirely welcome to take a look, though I doubt it would be very productive.

      • They would chuckle a bit for sure Richard.

  32. marie says:

    Richard, if anyone who hates someone can call-in a fake terrorist warning, ostensibly to protect ‘us’ from a dangerous hack, who protects us from the protectors?
    The only way I know out of that puzzle is to recognize that No one can or should protect me but me (of course, not just claiming that blindly, but accepting the responsibility of learning for myself). Yet, a wide-spread yearning for messiahs invests ‘authorities’ with ‘responsibility’ : responsibility of me, for me. Ugh! Some days like this, I just feel old….
    And then I read your blog, or argue on it, and the world shifts back into perspective. Your vehemently, profanely, utterly Honest and very un-messiahnic blog, with the comments/discussion you promote, is a focusing lens. So once again, thank you.

    • Yes, Marie….well said. That’s why I keep a loaded S&W in my bedside table. It also protects me from Zombie Carb zealots and Paleo fanatics who throw stones at each other. Grunt.

  33. Sanity Check says:

    Evelyn (Carb’Sane’) is a hate-monger. She stirs up hatred about random people that she doesn’t like, who disagree with her ideas or don’t buy in to her idea of herself as being someone with ‘scientific acumen’. She wanted anonymity so that she could freely call people frauds and idiots without fear of retribution. And she was worried that the people she works with would recognise her. Sneaky and cowardly.
    It is not impossible that whoever made the call and tweet that got Kruse taken off the ship was stirred into it by reading the attention-seeking vitriol on her blog. She could easily disagree with someone in a calm, intelligent and grown-up way and then more people might listen and maybe be helped. But she chooses instead to use childish spite, name-calling etc etc and search the internet for information to use in her vendetta against the people she targets. She recently did that with Kruse. How long did she have to dig to get that information? Hasn’t she got friends to spend time with??
    She does deserve to be called a stalker and a hate-monger and if someone she incites isn’t quite stable, who knows what they could be incited to do by being put into attack mode by Carb ‘Sanity’. As someone else said recently about her… it’s people liike this that make the world an uglier place.

    • Hugh Anderson says:

      “She wanted anonymity so that she could freely call people frauds and idiots without fear of retribution.”

      Your given name is Sanity?

      “Sneaky and cowardly.”

      Good point, Mr. Sanity. Or was it Mrs? I can’t tell behind your anonymous name, oh brave soul.

      “it’s people like this that make the world an uglier place.”

      Said the person who just spewed a bunch of vitriol, anonymously.

  34. Hugh Anderson says:

    In summary:

    The Twitter account and tweets were funny in an uber-insider sort of way. Calling one of those tweets in to the authorities was gay as hell.

    Some people despise Evelyn, Melissa, and the Paleohacks crew, others hate Kruse & Jimmy Moore. Neither side can see how douche-y they sound when they shrilly and often hypocritically hurl insults at the other side (hello, Sierra!).

    Richard nailed it with: “There ought to be a lot of disagreement. There really ought not be, in my view, a lot of hand-wringing over such disagreements.”

    Also, cunt.

    • sierra says:

      And YOU don’t sound douche-y calling ME shrill & hypocritical? And, um “gay as hell”?
      Yeah right.

      • So you just admitted that you were the one who alerted DHS to that fake Twitter account?

    • Anna K. says:

      PaleoHacks monitoring and removing comments and thread that they don’t like is ridiculous. That’s why I like your blog Richard, anything goes!

  35. Woodey says:

    Regardless of how they use it abroad you know its meaning when used in the states. Terrible long-winded quasi apology. Basically it sucked. Do you know what “sucked” means in the U.S.?

    • “Woodey”

      Many Brits have already chimed in to affirm it’s used in the same way there. But then again, GB wasn’t formed by a bunch of uptight Puritans.

  36. Juliebgood (TwinkleDammit) says:

    As a female, I would just like to say that I see no reason to be “offended as a woman” and have hurt feelings over c*nt or tw*t (at work, must filter swear words). In fact, I use them casually, all the time, when someone’s being a c*nt.

    Now, if you were going to denigrate my sexual orientation, or the fact that I even have a sexuality by labelling me a sl*t, wh*re, etc. that’s a bit different and totally offensive – those are specific attacks on female sexuality. But terms like b*tch, c*nt, and tw*t are simply generic terms that are interchangeable with *sshole, etc.

    I just don’t see the big deal, at all. From what I’ve observed, they’re words that sensitive people “choose* to be offended over, and I find that sensitivity over these terms in particular is almost (not always) the provenance of middle-aged and older women. The younger set really doesn’t give a darn.

    • I am going to stoop so low as to comment because everyone has their fannies in a twist. “Cunt” is part of my body. Someone else here said that they, too, take offense at the use of a woman’s part of a body being associated with a despicable person. I don’t think my cunt is despicable. As does “dick” and “douche” the word now has a meaning of it’s own. Like the word “nigger”. It’s a word whose connotation is offensive. But it’s just a word. Schools have banned Mark Twain because he used the word in a book…in 1840 something…..it got a certain radio personality kicked off the air. Come on….It’s a word. All these thin skinned PC people need to get over themselves.

      I’m tired, as a writer, to have to be selective and Politically correct as to “not offend someone”. I’M offended. I applaud Richard for saying what he wants. Everyone needs to grow up.

      There I ranted. Richard, you need to post something new. Quickly, because I am bored with this “ragging”.

  37. Hey Richard, Care to share what blog that “vile, evil, fat, hypocritical, money-whore” comment came from?

    • Evelyn, the quotes around that are mine, not yours. You should have quoted it as follows:

      “‘vile, fat, evil, hypocritical, money-whore'”

      And they’re scare quotes, not literal, which ought to be clear enough to any intelligent reader.

      • You wrote: I was just reading one comment thread on a blog this last Sunday about the “vile, evil, fat, hypocritical, money-whore” Jimmy Moore This seems like you are quoting someone directly. Might have been better to write that you were reading on a blog something *like* or *to the effect of*. Either way, if you’re going to call people out, then call them out, but this smear tactic of not naming names and lumping legit criticism in with trolling and just ad hominems. Jimmy did a fine job of that recently and you don’t really want to put yourself in that cheezy company?

      • Bullshit, Evelyn.

        Don’t fuck with me. I love that you are courageous enough to put yourself out and comment.

        You know damn fucking well that was simply a scare quote compilation of my general summation and sense of the comment thread taken as a whole.

        Jesus. already.

      • So what blog’s comment section did that “scare quote compilation” come from?

        I’m not the one f’en with anyone.

      • OK, Evelyn. Because my commenters are fucking smart and what I’ve seen so far, yours are victims, dumbasses, haters and forever hurt, let me spell it out.

        From time to time, people—look up what scare quotes mean—oh, hell, here:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

        See 3rd para after Usage. It’s hard for me to believe that you are unaware of this sort of usage, because I don’t really consider you a dumb cunt, un spite of every effort on your part to paint yourself as one.

        I and other fucking smart people and entertaining writers have been using scare quotes since 1995 and earlier. Yep, they can be misused, but the debate is whether my scare quotes accurately represented the comment thread or were misleading in the context of my post and what I was accusing you of.

        Not whether they were direct quotations.

        But, hey, far be it from me from helping you to not look stupid and ignorant.

      • I get scare quotes. Please don’t get in a pissing contest here b/c I lack the equipment to even compare. And measuring is probably not a good idea for you if you’ve just been tubbin. I asked a simple question, what blog are you scare quoting from? Man up. If you’re saying that’s the sort of comments that dominate my blog you’re a friggin liar. So which blog is it?

      • Evelyn:

        Don’t be obtuse. I already said it was my summation/compliation from the comment thread.

        I think you already know this, just playing typical deconstruction games (look for the post and out-of-context quotes).

        This is my _opinion_ of the _gist_ of your comment thread(s) re JM. Perhaps you ought to browse them. I think I’m about right. I’m willing to entrain quibbles. Perhaps, I left out “fraud.”

        Do you want a vowel?

      • So basically you lack the balls to just write something like “I was reading CarbSane’s blog and her comments read like blah blah blah.”

        Which, incidentally, they do not if you actually read them.

      • No, not at all. I think my summation is a fair outline of the entirely of the thread I read, and I read every comment in one of them, but I don’t recall which.

        Feel free to point me to the comments defending Moore and not piling on higher and deeper. I already said it was a matter of opinion. It’s stated. You’re welcome to give reason that I was overboard or, if honest, maybe left out fraud, which perhaps you may have mentioned but I did not include.

        I’m still a bit gobsmacked that you seem so unfamiliar with such a usage of scare quotes.

    • Your BIO?

  38. The irony in all this is that Dr. Kruse is now more prominent, and more sympathetic, than he’s ever been before, and it wouldn’t have been possible without the atmosphere created by his detractors.

    • Sam, you mean to tell me that the unbridled freedom of the Internet works differently than when some one is anointed by our gatekeepers and things kinda sort themselves out in a natural way, with people being able to tell value from value and act accordingly?

      Say it isn’t so!

    • Don’t confuse notoriety with prominence or credibility. If I meet Jack at AHS12 I’ll be very surprised.

      • “Don’t confuse notoriety with prominence or credibility. If I meet Jack at AHS12 I’ll be very surprised.”

        You gonna be there? Cool. Drinks are on this misogynist, Evelyn. I’m the best sport you’ll ever meet.

      • Yes, provided current circumstances don’t escalate to where I worry over my safety, I’ll be there. Before offering drinks though, you should know my tastes are expensive :-) And yes, that first statement is in all seriousness, and no, I’m not prone to paranoia and can handle myself, but the vigilantism afoot is quite disconcerting. For what? To defend a liar for page hits?

        I think when folks meet me in person they will be quite surprised. Just thinking.

      • “Yes, provided current circumstances don’t escalate to where I worry over my safety”

        I’ll bring my browned skinned wife along.

        She manages to sleep with me. Last night, even.”

        “For what? To defend a liar for page hits?”

        Jack’s a liar. I’m a liar. You’re a liar. Everybody lies. Get over it. Instead, ask yourself how _honest_ you are over time and space and context.

        Lies are static. Honesty is analog, a chart and a graph, with truth and lies as blips.

        Is yours trending up or down?

      • Anna K. says:

        Evelyn, I think you are missing the point that this blog is one of the few places where both sides are welcome to chime in and discuss issues without being edited or deleted. Unlike PaleoHacks. And it’s an interesting read, that’s why page hits. What’s wrong with page hits anyway? just envy?

      • This reminds me of the “mean kids” battle that was waged back in 07 involving Kathy Sierra . It got major news.

        http://www.rageboy.com/statements-sierra-locke.html

        A site was created. Some snarky comments and articles were posted. A commenter made a threat. Kathy was scared for her life. She no showed a conference. News was slow that day.

        The site creator said hell no to taking the site down (at first) because he said fuck censorship.

        Blah blah blah. Anywho, congrats ladies and gents…

        The internets histories just got repeated. Only, this time, it is not the people verses companies/pr folks/marketers. It is dieters that forgot eating was to fuel a life full of #win.

        Maybe this diet devolves us after all. Well, YOU all because I just had sushi.

      • Everyone fibs now and then. Pobody’s Nerfect. But not everybody lies and you know what I’m talking about here. Jack LIED in the channel 5 news report. LIED through his teeth.

        Jack lied in a deposition. I can assure you I’ve never even come close to that. Have you?

        I can ask myself how honest I am over time and space and context and be content with the knowledge that the answer is very. How bout you?

      • Evelyn,

        You’ve missed the point.

        Can you draw a clear distinction between truth and honesty?

        hint: I have no doubt that you are generally, carefully truthful.

      • Leigh says:

        “Jack lied in a deposition.”

        Or, Jack misspoke in a deposition (happens all the time with expert witnesses) and those in his profession who don’t want to see him preaching paleo seized the opportunity to slap his hand.

        I don’t know. You don’t know SFAIK, right now, only Jack & the AANS know.

  39. And I’ve noticed that ‘ole Jack is nursing this for all it’s worth. He is just eating up all the attention….but anyone who has paid any attention at all knows he really likes attention.

    Damn, did I just say attention enough times?

    • When life hands you lemons …

    • Jeff:

      Next time you get booted off a cruise ship before a week’s sail to the Caribbean where you were a keynote speaker for 300 attendees, having your room and baggage ransacked by numerous local and federal authorities before even being tad what you were suspected of, marched down the plank in fromt of all and left on the pier…

      Oh, I forget, nobody would fucking care if that happened to you, exept your family, and you’re gonna cell them anyway.

      Sorry, Jeff, that you’ve not really ever done anything to get thousands of people to give a shit about you.

      Better get busy then, and that, I mean totally seriously. You can do it.

      • Richard, do you really think you know what I’ve done or not done in my life? Sounds like you might need another drink.

      • Nope, I don’t, Jeff.

        But you seem to divine a lot of motivations on Jack’s part that may be as simple as him being pissed.

        I’ll buy.

  40. c-man says:

    Yeah look, it’s all fine and dandy to throw the word c* word around like it’s some worthless piece of shit but in all honesty you’re just devaluing it’s worth for those of us who like to use it on special ocassions.

  41. jay jay says:

    Richard, if you were to get subpoenaed in this case, do you think you would announce that here, or keep it to yourself?

    If I were an investigator, I would think it would be extremely valuable to scan your log files, and possibly take a look at some of the folks who just recently showed up here following your posts on Kruse….

    And you KNOW the feds are going to investigate this one. It’s no different than calling in a bomb threat or making a stupid bomb joke on a plane.

    The only way to stifle that crap is to make a public example of the perps. Maybe the perp will say “It was only a joke.” But that’s not often a workable excuse for criminal charges (barring true mental problems), and it damn sure won’t fly for civil charges (although I am not a lawyer.)

    • “Richard, if you were to get subpoenaed in this case, do you think you would announce that here, or keep it to yourself?”

      Prescient Q, JJ.

      I have been known to fax back threatening attorney letters with Sharpie scrawls on the front. Use your imagination.

      On the other hand, my sense would be to cooperate fully in an investigation, here. Open door. Look all you want.

      Whether I would let it be known what was going on, I’d probably ask and go with their wishes.

  42. Elenor says:

    On word choice:
    A decade-plus ago (oh hell, more than TWO decades ago, actually) when I was in the Navy, I took over a tug division in a shipyard. My chiefs insisted that the (enlisted) sailors should not be allowed to swear in front of me. (“It’s not appropriate to swear in front of officers” — of course, they meant women officers… not ‘real’ officers…. {eye roll} This was back when women officers were treated so very, very differently from *Navy* officers, which always pissed me off…) “But,” I pointed out to the chiefs, “*I* swear! I cannot say to the sailors, you may not swear in front of me, when *I* intend to continue swearing when appropriate.” We negotiated, and agreed that banning the “f-word” (which I did not and do not use) in front of me would have to do. Hence forward, the sailors were not allowed to say fuck in front of me. And yes, I, too, enforced that ban (one plays the game by its rules, yes?) — with a raised eyebrow, a cough, or whatever (the chiefs, of course, were more direct).

    I had not, before then, been sensitive to that word — I didn’t use it, but I didn’t particularly notice it go by. (I’d been in the Navy several years by then; it was common usage.) However, after several months of ‘correcting’ sailors, I found that I HAD become sensitive to it — on hearing it, anywhere, my hackles went up. People “weren’t supposed to” say that in front of me. {eye roll}

    All by way of saying: it’s a habit, this being hypersensitive to ‘bad’ words. Calling people on it makes the caller sensitive to it. (That said, the rising coarseness of “our” society may be less than optimal for our long-term success/survival!)

    (Also, I got a private chuckle because the same raised eyebrow at sailors says “yessir” to me (yessir being a single word in the Navy) led, over time, to them yes-m’am-ing MALE officers…)

    • Elanor. You can yes-m’am me any time you want.

      A story. I went the NSI route; that is, NROTC but only last 2 years, and you do 6 weeks or so of a sort or boot camp in Newport, RI in the summer between 2nd & 3rd year. Anyway, one of the officers was a female LCDR and she was fun as hell, gave me a lot of perspective and knew exactly how to be one of the guys and cuss with and drink with and dance with them.

      I have never, ever forgotten her.

      • Elenor says:

        I ADORED!! Newport! (I went OCS.) Getting rousted at 0530, to march around and around in formation in the cool morning fog, with the foghorns sounding out on the Sound…. Yes m’am {wink} Newport was heaven-on-earth. (Even with the marching!)

        I was there the year they began to phase-out the … hazing … (can’t even remember now what they called it!) that was the first week’s disruption of any connection to “normal” life. Always thought that phasing-out was the stupidest possible choice: that week of sort-of-hell (for newly-ex-civilians) was the best possible signal for the beginning of the change… but I guess too many weenies got their feelings hurt.

      • Me too, loved Newport, especially in ’80 or ’82 when I was 19 or 20 and the drinking age was 18. We were on the road to sanity then….

        Loved running the cliffs along all the mansions, so many other things. I also remember seeing the first Superman movie there (Reeves) and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Whoa!

        What year were you there, Elenor?

  43. Oh Georgine, Georgine, Georgine. Why is there NO mention on you blog that you had gastric bypass surgery? ………………………… should I continue? Pathetic.

    • Shelley says:

      Evelyn, who is Georgine and why have a grudge about GPS? Again, each to their own. I think you need to quit because you seem to have dug yourself into such a huge hole, I don’t know if you’ll ever crawl back out.

      Richard—another post, please, so Evelyn can catch some air!

      • Johnny says:

        Yeah, I’d like to know what this means. Let’s either call people out, or not.

        Also, I’d like a link to where Gary Taubes and Tom Naughton coordinate to destroy you. I seriously don’t have the google-fu to figure it out.

        Weirdly, it’s not linked in any of the 6 to 7 times that CS mentions it on her blog. It’s too horrible to link to, or to talk about constantly. Well, just that first thing, really.

        I’m willing to be convinced that Gary and Tom are fucking horrible people. Just need a linky-poo to clicky-wicky :) P) :-) etc..

      • Johnny says:

        By the way, this is not a put-up-or-shut-up challenge to CS. If anyone can link to this character-assassination by Gary Taubes or Tom Naughton, then I’d be obliged.

        I’m not a monster. If it’s really character assassination, or mean or obscene, I’ll know it and say so, and so will other commenters at FTA.

      • Another BMOC. Here’s the best I can do
        http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/02/internettiquette-ii-big-fat-head-etc.html

        You’re not a monster. I’m not a monster. I didn’t do squat to Jack other than expose his quackery. Chill dude.

      • Johnny says:

        What on earth is BMOC?

        I really have no idea why you keep bringing Jack up to me. I don’t care about him. I don’t talk about him, not here, not anywhere.

      • Johnny says:

        I see at the time Tom made these scurrilous accusations, you had not quite yet pieced together that it was a concerted effort, led by Jimmy Moore to call you a stalker.. Nor do you seem too upset because you were once a victim of actual stalking, but rather making the (sensible) observation that writing comments or disagreement is not “stalking”.

        But reading someone’s blog is stalking?

        I guess we’re left with 1) you were once stalked for reals and 2) Jimmy Moore sent email, and Tom Naughton left a comment (not a post) in his own blog accusing you of stalking, but the stalking he means is quite clearly defined in the same paragraph as leaving comments in many places.

        It was a concerted effort to paint you as a stalker. Really?

        No one thinks you ought to fawn over Gary Taubes. But there’s more than a whiff of retroactive continuity in your story here.

        God damn. I feel like I’m defending Jimmy, who I have no use for. Nor Gary, really, and while I liked his book, I didn’t start eating butter out of the tub, or whatever the apocryphal low-carber in your head does.

      • I don’t owe you anything. I tried to explain a bit. You’d have to be in my shoes. Put it this way, since this is about Jack Kruse’s quackery and I’m dragged in because — make NO mistake — he “named” me, I’ve not stalked him. Oh … and that was sarcasm towards Georgene. You see it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. I read a lot, but I can’t read every remote blog out there.

        Oh, and Georgene, if I were to write a book on cruising the first rec I would make to anyone is (a) go on the better cruiselines, they have free room service 24/7, and (b) don’t spend your 3 sea days in dark rooms. Oh, and (c) go on a cruise with a port to sea day ratio of at least 2:1.

      • Johnny says:

        Well, there’s literally no arguing with any of that.

      • Stipetic says:

        Take that, Johnny. And people complain about Jack’s illegible writing style.

      • Georgene doesn’t shop well for cruise ships?

        Is that really your cleverest takedown?

      • Hi, Shelley, I am Georgene, and here to tell you that Evelyn either can’t read too well, or she doesn’t understand big words like “bariatric surgery.” I’m guessing a little bit of both, plus a large dose of LIAR! Please read this quote from my blog that pains her so (this is a joint blog between me and my husband, and this is his post.)

        “My wife had a similar experience. She eventually elected to have bariatric surgery, after which she quickly lost nearly to her goal weight, then slowly started regaining.” (BTW, this is me speaking: I lost all the regain and am now back at goal.)

        Since bariatric surgery isn’t the focus of the blog, I made sure he at least mentioned it, cause I figured a stalker like Carb-Insane would eventually try to throw it in my face.

        So, Evelyn, go back and take some reading and comprehension (and TRUTH) lessons. Oh, and call me again when bariatric surgery becomes illegal.

        Shelley, my blog is linked to my name, here on this post, if you care to see it, but if you don’t, that’s fine too.

      • Shelley says:

        Hi Georgene – thank you, I will certainly read your blog when I get more time (especially the prepping, travel & handgun blogs), but glancing at it quickly, my thoughts are….you both look extremely happy. I like that! Keep on smiling because your before/after pictures over time show an incredible transformation that you should be extremely proud of. I wish you and your husband all the best!!

      • Thank you, Shelley!

        The thing The CS Idiot doesn’t seem to understand (and I think I know why) is that you really can’t upset people who are truly happy. I know the difference: I’ve been both (sad AND happy). I like happy better.

        I also know the difference between thin and fat. I like thin better.

        Oh and one more thing I know. The difference between real size 8’s and size 8’s that a person has to wedge herself into. Since I wear a 4, it’s not an issue anyway.

        Smiles are much more fun, and you gave me one this morning!

        On to Grand Cayman. We’ll be arriving in about an hour.

      • Stipetic says:

        Sting Ray City is fun, if you have a chance to head out there.

      • I can read just fine. I’m just not such a stalker to read every last word on your blog. I did, however read this today: http://nequals1health.com/about-georgene/ and had previously listened to your LCC podcast with Jimmy. I never said it was illegal BTW.

        Low carb success stories presented by Amy Dungan and Andrew DiMino? Do you have eyes? Gimme a break.

        Oh and Shelley, you’ll have to do a bit of stalking to realize Georgine had gastric bypass cuz LC didn’t do the full trick. Oh yeah … and I’m fat. I’d venture to guess I wear smaller clothes than Georgine but that’s not really the issue, right?

      • Johnny says:

        I’m just not such a stalker to read every last word on your blog.

        I thought “stalker” was a word with a specific meaning. I was just lectured about how accusations of stalking were no. fucking. joke. You were stalked for real once, so fucking around about stalking is beyond the pale. There was a concerted effort to paint you as a stalker. Concerted. Effort.

        If you did read every word on that blog, would that make you a stalker?

        Because that’s the meaning of the words you wrote.

        I’m so confused.

      • No, Johnny, you are sensible. Stop immediately!

      • Tongue in cheek, because Georgene called me a stalker. Go pester someone else.

      • So, I guess that means you are only a little bit of a stalker? I would think that IF you bothered to look up the information that I did have bariatric surgery, you would at least bother to check the blog carefully before you threw out an accusation that I didn’t mention it.

        I guess we should add that you are totally fucking stupid to the fact that you don’t read well and you don’t understand the meaning of big words.

        Smiling. You have been caught this time, Evelyn (not the only time, just the latest time.)

      • I think it was a lack of attention from your parents during those important years.

        You really are fucking insane.

    • Hope the fill you with carbs in jail.. #unt

  44. I’m a chick.. I have a cunt. I am not a ‘cunt’ but the bitch who started all this defines the word and BRAVO to you for calling her that.. Don’t ever apologize to cunts btw..

  45. Alex Good says:

    “I call that “fake self-esteem,” the fooling one’s self that in tearing down something of value to others, it’s tantamount to, or even greater than the building of that value itself. Some people seem to have the notion that if something is not of particular value to them, then it’s a dis-value—not only to them, but by projection and extension, a dis-value to everyone, and a blight on the universe itself.”

    How is this not your attitude towards theism?

    • “How is this not your attitude towards theism?”

      Point me to the guy who worked night & day to create it and I’ll run right out and profusely apologize.

      • Alex Good says:

        Well, using the bible as an example (I could list off writers for other belief systems as well, if you’d prefer), Mathew, Mark, Luke and John come to mind.

      • There is a difference between (1) opining (out loud or in print) that someone is an idiot and (2) slapping a muzzle on the presumed idiot to keep him (or her) from infecting all the rest of us.

        Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John have had their say, and no one begrudges them that. But we don’t all agree with everything they said, and we certainly don’t agree with all the meaning later authors have taken from them. I can call people out without wanting to lock them up or physically restrain them from sharing their message.

        There is this ancient thing called argument. Let both sides speak, and may the most persuasive win — on its own merits, not because someone has a gun hidden somewhere under the table (or some other leverage that forces what ought to be a free decision).

      • Alex Good says:

        Oh I agree that arguments are important. I’m just having fun pointing out the hypocrisy which exists in many of Mr. Nikoley’s posts.

      • Alex:

        OK, I’m sorry. I apologize.

        I know how much you value God Lite (Santa) and the Easter Jesus Bunny.

        Sorry for trashing your 5-yr-old values. I’d tell you to grow the fuck up, but I’ve apparently already done enough damage to your sensitive sensibilities.

      • Oh, fuck. I really fucked up. i was looking at another thread somewhere, got confused, and didn’t realize you were talking about “adult” versions.

        And whoa, it makes a “lot” of “difference.”

      • Alex Good says:

        Did that make you feel better? Because having my point proven for me certainly makes me feel good.
        I believe the term is “self righteousness”.

      • Alex, I wish you well with your comforting teddy bears. Now go to sleep.

      • Alex Good says:

        You wish you were cuddly enough to count as a teddy bear.

      • “I’m just having fun pointing out the hypocrisy which exists in many of Mr. Nikoley’s posts.”

        Bullshit.

        I criticize someone who’s only real “contribution” to Paleo is to find fault in values produced by others, such as Taubes, Moore, Kruse. I have no qualms whatsoever about pointing out faults in the work of others, but she blows such faults out of all proportion to discredit the entirety of what these people have produced with terms like frauds, quacks, Taube$, etc. In so doing, she attempts to pretend she’s actually producing something rather than really, only tearing down what others have produced.

        Ergo, by your logic, anyone who agrees with line of thinking, myself included, are being hypocritical to criticize anything at all, including adults clinging to childhood fantasies

        And for the record, I have never swept aside religion and faith as devoid of value. It’s certainly a large and valuable part of human evolution. It’s time to move on.

      • Alex Good says:

        No, you’ve swept aside religion as being utterly impossible. You’ve made it abundantly clear that you don’t believe that any higher power could possibly exist out there, and in so doing made yourself appear just as bigoted as the people who bombed your country earlier in the millenium.

        Oh and the rest of your post made no sense to me. Do you mean that you think it’s not hypocritical to criticise someone for criticising?

      • “No, you’ve swept aside religion as being utterly impossible. ”

        Fucking laugh. I sweep is aside as being fucking stupid and infantile, adolescent at best.

        Impossible? That’s actually a lie because I wouldn’t say a word about it if it was really impossible, like moving an immovable object.

        Alex, Alex. You love your your teeny weeny childhood fantasies they taught you. And you’ve used a lot of your life’s capital trying to make it make sense to you—why you’re still an intellectual infant. Can’t hep you, man.

        Either, you admit to being a stupid fuck like I did and move on, and watch your life improve as mine did 20 years ago, or you keep looking stupid.

        You get to be as stupid as you want to be.

        “Oh and the rest of your post made no sense to me.”

        I have zero doubt about that.

      • Alex Good says:

        Insults do not make a good argument.

        And you want me to admit I don’t know everything? That sounds strikingly familiar. I believe that’s the one thing I’ve been trying to get you to admit to for quite some time now, spanning multiple threads.
        Very well then, as I’ve said before, I don’t know everything. I don’t know whether god exists, it just seems more likely to me that he does. What I do know, though, is that I’ve tried to debate this as an adult (minus one joke about teddy bears) whereas you’ve simply thrown mud.
        You’ve moved on from one dogma to another, nothing more.

      • “And you want me to admit I don’t know everything?”

        No, because I’d never ask of anyone what’s true for myself already.

        I simply got over the what, why, and how of childhood fantasies that were inculcated into me as a child. I dumped them and quit defending them 20 years ago and I did not get struck down.

        My life improved,

        You are your mind,

        Your mileage may vary.

      • Alex Good says:

        Are you drunk? Your responses make no linguistic sense! What is true for you already? That I don’t know everything? That you don’t know everything?
        I suppose it’s excusable given your recent loss, but at least regain your sobriety before posting.

      • marie says:

        Well Alex, if it wasn’t already obvious that you’ll say anything, and snidely, in order to try to ‘win’ an argument, it is now. Classy.

      • Laf.

        Well, I guess we’re headlong into pearls before swine territory now.

        Bye.

      • But sober. He will always post sober and linguistically.

        I commented with snark and without snide.

      • marie says:

        Ah, an important linguistic distinction! Lol.

      • Alex Good says:

        I won this argument quite a few posts ago. Now I’m just giving back what was sent my way.

      • Alex Good says:

        “Well, I guess we’re headlong into pearls before swine territory now.”

        There’s an old saying. Don’t bring a gilded shield into battle.

      • That’s what you think. Just you.

      • Alex

        Go fuck off now. Seriously. And read Marie’s comment again. You’re a serious fuckin’ bore.

      • Alex Good says:

        Better a bore with a brain than an arrogant imbecile like you.

      • Didn’t I already tell you to go fuck off, Alex?

        Understand, I don’t think you’re honest. And I think you are motivated by fantasies mommie and daddie taught you, and I think you quake in fear about them–though perhaps not so much because you have company–and it motovates your behavior in adverse and dishonest ways. Moreover, I’m willing to withstand the judgment of my peers; namely, the readers of my blog, on existence and thriving. For a long time.

        Perhaps you should start a blog no one will read. isn’t it clear enough to you here, that your comments are a big yawn and I’ve just been being nice?

        You are fucking boring.

      • Alex Good says:

        You’re the one with inconsistencies in his beliefs. And if me giving reasonable arguments while not swearing repeatedly at you like some demented two year old makes me a bore, then so be it.
        I’d ask you to try it my way but I have a feeling that it’s your idiocy that attracts people to this blog in the first place.

      • You call people drunk and incoherent, I just cut to the chase.

      • Alex Good says:

        Well perhaps you should attempt to make yourself understandable. And yes, I assumed you were drunk. It was either that or you’re a hotheaded nitwit. I chose to state the former out of politeness.
        Now then, anyone with half a brain can see that I’ve won our little debate so I’m going to stop posting on this thread until you make a decent point. And no, swearing and calling me a liar or some other such nonesense is not a decent point.

      • Nope, stone cold sober.

        Didn’t I tell you to fuck off, somewhere? And please point me to all those half brains who think you won an argument. I’m sure it would take about half a brain to think that.

        I noticed you didn’t respond to the whole brained people who interlocuted, Marie and Jscott.

  46. Slinging dirt here still? My god. Did y’all feel the earth shake when BHO spilled? Yeah, a lot of BS there, too. Here’s hoping we get a gop in nov.

  47. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    Shame on you, Richard. Supporting chickenshit intimidation tactics? The silencing of free speech? Robb Wolf’s long comment on PaleoHacks is the most articulate, reasoned, and SANE thing to come out of all this so far. The making of threats – real or not – is unequivocally wrong (and certainly not protected speech), but using it as an excuse to go after one’s ‘enemies’ is downright McCarthyite and (I thought) the very sort of thing you opposed. It’s no wonder people like Kurt Harris are nowhere to be found. And, pissing contest between you two aside, kudos to Evelyn for not rolling over for this.

    • “Supporting chickenshit intimidation tactics?”

      I have no clue what you’re talking about. I doubt you do either.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Robb Wolf on PH: “Thugish McCarthyism tactics were used to silence people. This is beyond appalling and is completely unacceptable.”

        That’s what I mean. And threatening someone like Evelyn – even if you can’t stand her – is beyond the pale and should be condemned as such.

      • I still don’t know what you mean in relation to my actions.

      • Jay Jay says:

        Richard,

        My “translation” of eatlessmovemore is that these people are trying to turn Dr. Kruse’s mention of carbsane into an attack intended to intimidate and silence HER.

        My first wife was certifiably insane (manic depressive, schizophrenic), so I have a lot of experience dealing with people like this….

      • Well, if anyone is trying to silence Evelyn AKA Carbsane, it merely requires a look at her blog and my comment threads to see how well that’s been working out for them.

  48. LizMc. says:

    A little late to the conversation here, but when I lived in Japan and discovered that Brits use the word cunt regularly…wow, that was an exciting, liberating moment for me. Since then I’ve enjoyed using it playfully, seriously, with anger, and pretty much any other time I feel it’s useful.

    It’s just a word. Why pretend it doesn’t exist or get upset about it?

  49. kathlylu says:

    Just a random thought. Some, if not most of the participants on the “low carb cruise” booked it to actually hear the speakers. When JK was kicked off, I imagine more than a few folks would be angry. I wonder if Carnival will compensate them? Maybe send a nice chocolate cake to their dinner table?

  50. Well, he’s making Fox News — coming up next. Notoriety!

    • Of course Studio B missed an important aspect: JJK was offered 1st class treatment to return

      • Of course Studio B missed an important aspect: JJK was offered 1st class treatment to return

        First class?? That would make it all worth it! We should all be so lucky as to be accused of terrorism!

        You losers are such fucking freaks.

  51. Joe

    If it’s making Nat News, don’t you think . . . it’s worth it? ;-)

    Geraldo next!

    • No, I think you’re a vicious loser and a camp-follower who’s upset that this miscalculation did anything other than destroy him. You women are so sick it’s insane.

      I think the real benefit to Kruse is that it inoculates him against all the fake complaints you assholes are filing against him with every regulatory board you can think of. Trying to shut down a cruise ship completely shifts the burden of proof and would make any regulator very dubious about the “accusers.”

  52. Maybe if someone could just manufacture a voodoo doll of Dr. Kruse and ritually disembowel it, the air might clear, at least a little? Some of us are more interested in ideas than litigation. If we fear Kruse, we are more likely to avoid him than to call in the cops (unless he happens to moonlight as a burglar, or a bioterrorist: maybe someone was really scared that he was really a significant threat? I guess it is possible, though I think folks would fear him less if they realized that wackos are always saying crazy stuff on the Internet: if we prosecuted every scary fish story, we would never do anything else).

    As far as I can tell, Kruse is a rather edgy doctor: I might not want him as my attending physician, and ideally I might avoid working in hospital with him, but the reality is that he is probably no more dangerous than crowds of people I associate with cavalierly every day. I don’t ask them to tell me their crazy fish stories, so I don’t realize how close I come to being annihilated every time we bump into each other in the hallway outside my office. (I’m not just saying this. I work in a crowded administrative building on a large college campus, not too far from the Virginia Tech campus, where a guy whose look-alikes I interact with all the time once pulled a gun and starting shooting people. The illusion of safety can be quite seductive, in a school as in a hospital, and I understand why people get frightened and angry when somebody upsets it, but that does not mean that it is not an illusion. It is. We have to live with the facts.)

    • Karen says:

      Fear Kruse? Because he shot his mouth off after being framed as a terrorist? I think that might be a bit upsetting, no? Might distract even you from your noble pursuit of ideas?

      Kruse’s mouthing is only aimed at the invisible perpetrator. And even then it’s empty; the jerk who made the call will avoid prosecution by lying that he didn’t understand the account was a parody.

      There are a lot of scary people in the paleo sewer — some posting in the comments above — but Kruse isn’t one. He’s a preener, a blowhard and a guy who doesn’t give others enough credit for the stuff he’s stringing together. But scary? Please.

      My latest nominee for Blowhard of the Month is Robb Wolf. Who died and made that asswipe mayor? He’s like the 800th Kinesiology major to open a gym owner and write a paleo book. Who the fuck does he think he is to be “disappointed” in Kruse? Who gives a shit who gets on your nerves, Robb? Shouldn’t you be working up another brisket recipe post?

      I’d like to see how calm Wolf would be if Boston found him being interrogated in a windowless room instead of giving his AHS talk.

      It is amazing how this little scenario has made everyone in “paleo” look like pompous, sniveling jerks.

      • Karen gets interesting, thought provoking comment of the day award.

        The prize is she has to post another comment soon.

      • Karen says:

        Here’s the thing, Richard: I’m stunned by the almost universal lack of empathy for Kruse. Being framed for bioterrorism is a calamity. It’s about as evil an act as can be perpetrated against a person. It’s like that guy who was incorrectly (and not even maliciously) fingered as being the anthrax mailer — everything about his life was destroyed.

        That Melissa and Evelyn think what happened to Kruse is no big deal marks them as beneath contempt in my book. (Though frankly, I think Melissa’s bizarre hatred for Kruse is really just a rechanneling of her rage at Minger, who’s smarter, younger, cuter, funnier, and, without taking a single class, is already more scientist than McEwen will ever be. When Melissa wakes up in a cold sweat, it’s not ’cause she’s thinking about Jack Kruse. :-)

        Re Robb Wolf, that he chose this particular moment to shit on Kruse on Paleohacks marks him as a opportunist who won’t hesitate to kick a man when he’s down — if it will let him suck up to Melissa & Evelyn. Disgusting. If testicles had to be rented, his lease would not be renewed.

        Where does Robb get off passing judgement on people anyway? He’s a personal trainer. Other than when to move to the next machine, who cares what a personal trainer thinks about ANYTHING? Q: How do you get from Kruse’s place to Wolf’s? A: Go 2,500 miles west and 400 MCAT points down.

        Anyway, Richard, please don’t let them shut you up.

      • Karen

        I’m not going to engage in trying to analyze motives, but I do see Robb’s action differently.

        I’ve corresponded with Robb. He likes Kruse a lot. I think he’s gotten a bit impatient. Don’t expect to see him carrying any anti-Kruse campaign forward. That’s all I’ll say.

      • Somebody just pointed me to Deans blog this PM of 5/9. I left a comment there that was similar to the one I posted here last night and she refused to post it. I will say it again here clearly for all to hear again. I named no one to anyone publically. The people protecting the people who participated in this crime and did this are saying I did. I challenge anyone to post one blog or media comment where I listed any names I gave anywhere or to anyone publically. There is none and Deans et al. can’t handle that truth. The only person I shared the list of names I gave the FBI was to Robb Wolf and that was for the protection of the ‘movement”. The people who participated in this behavior caused the proximal harm here. It was not the victim or the caller who has already been deposed by my representation. He is no part of this community and just a concerned citizen which further points the gun at the owner of the twitter account. Not everyone knew it was a parody and his deposition shows that now. I shared that information with Richard because there were some rumors I heard of who speculation that caller was and I wanted that cleared up.

        If those names got out, then Robb has a problem and not Jack. Everyone got that point clearly now? I would never publicly expose a list of suspects that I was asked to give to the government to explore in this crime. I’m not as stupid as my the people behind this crime.

      • If hyperbole, parody, and other humor/language tricks are a crime then I suppose I am part of the et al. So is Jesus, John Daily, Hunter Thompson (The candidate running for president is a drug addict using Ibogaine!), and The Onion writers.

        Lack of judgement and not considering the public at large at issue in this instance by the tweeter(s)? Yes. Lack of discernment and research on Lance’s end? Yes.

        Emily stated, “This weekend, something terrible happened to Dr. Jack Kruse. No innocent person should be summarily escorted off a cruise ship and dumped at Galveston harbor by Carnival security and the FBI. I wouldn’t wish such a thing on anyone. ”

        That seemed appropriate.

      • “Lack of judgement and not considering the public at large at issue in this instance by the tweeter(s)? Yes”

        I question your “lack of judgement” claim. It was a tweet poking fun at Jack’s proclivity for doing stunts. Real stunts that Jack has performed. Jack did whip out a stick of “dynamite” at PaleoFX (see the picture here: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/03/paleofx/ ). Jack did do a stunt that was called an “epic biohack” where he claimed to have injected himself with potentially dangerous bacteria. Poking fun at Jack’s proclivity for doing wacky stunts is not “implied terrorism” as some claim.

        If the meaning of this tweet got accidently misinterpreted by some third party observer, then that’s just the world we live. I don’t think all human discourse needs to be scrubbed and disinfected and made family-friendly and “implied terrorism”-friendly, especially a twitter comment directed at a specific audience.

        According to Paul Jaminet’s account of PaleoFX, Jack did say that the red stick that he whipped out in a public building was dynamite. Implied terrorism! Think of the children!

        According to Jack’s own account, he did procure a potential bioweapon outside of regulatory channels (cultured MRSA from a relative), weaponized it (put it in a syringe), and took it into a crowded public building (the hospital or surgical center). Implied terrorism! Think of the children!

        I don’t think the “just words” poking fun at these stunts should be held to any higher standard than the actual stunts themselves. I don’t really see much lack of judgement on the tweeter’s part, especially not enough for the witch-hunt that initially began.

        Jack on the other hand, believes that the twitter account was crowd-sourced and claims that anyone who ever contributed a tweet to the feed is somehow criminally liable for something. Jack and his cohorts are saying that if anyone knows who the tweeter is and doesn’t come forward, then they could be held criminally liable too.

      • Maybe emotions ran high with that one line from me and overshadowed the preceding paragraph, so I will give it to ya again:

        “If hyperbole, parody, and other humor/language tricks are a crime then I suppose I am part of the et al. So is Jesus, John Daily, Hunter Thompson (The candidate running for president is a drug addict using Ibogaine!), and The Onion writers.”

        I should have just posted this:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

      • Nah, I liked your first paragraph. I had just seen one too many mentions of “bad judgment.”

      • Lack. I used LACK God Damn it!

        People misreading me makes me angry. Very very angry. I am tempted to unleash the worm of all worms on the worldwidewebs. Then what will you infidels do without your precious pornmachines?

        All praise be to Foi Gras, from Whom we seek help and forgiveness.

      • Anna K. says:

        Jack, why are you so upset with the tweet account? It was a parody, it was funny to everybody who knows what you are doing. One can like you and still enjoy a joke at your expense, you should laf at it too. I like what you are doing, you are helping people a lot, but you are beginning to take yourself too seriously.

        Before everybody jumps on me, I understand that it was a big deal to get removed from the boat, I’m not trying to diminish what you had to go through. but may be, just may be it was just a bad coincidence? Tweet was funny, the guy who reported it doesn’t know your story, so he didn’t find it funny and reported it. That doesn’t mean everybody should just stop making jokes, it’s enough that we have to take our shoes off every time we fly. People need to lighten up, 9/11 was over 10 years ago! And yes, I was there, worked on wall st right next to it and I can take a joke about it.

        If anybody to blame in this situation it’s the ship captan and the law enforcement agency for overreacting to this. We all need to grow up. We have enough censorship already. God forbid I make a joke about a bomb at the airport to my friend and somebody overhears it and reports it. It’s about the context, 5 min interview with me should make it clear I’m not a terrorist, I’m just fucking sick of doing stupid shit like taking off my shoes and sweaters and the security check, yet my sharp nail file can go through!
        Same with Jack – 5 min interview by FBI should have cleared him. So blame the FBI, the ship captan, the law enforcement, not the tweeters. I don’t even like the alleged 3 people behind the tweets, but for God’s sake (that’s for you Richard :), can we all lighten up and stop taking ourselves so seriously? the tweet was funny!

        I agree with M. comment below: “I don’t think all human discourse needs to be scrubbed and disinfected and made family-friendly and “implied terrorism”-friendly”.

      • “I will say it again here clearly for all to hear again. I named no one to anyone publically. The people protecting the people who participated in this crime and did this are saying I did. I challenge anyone to post one blog or media comment where I listed any names I gave anywhere or to anyone publically. There is none and Deans et al. can’t handle that truth.”

        Jack, this sure looks like public naming to me:
        https://twitter.com/#!/DigiSurg/status/199840717768634368

        “@Paleolite @DigiSurg I assume you’ve seen this? #smokinggun https://twitter.com/#!/carbsane/status/196580879408168961

      • Karen, I agree that we should not be afraid of Kruse, but not everyone I respect agrees with me.

        Robb Wolfe is just a guy, like other guys, who happens to be interested in ‘paleo’ (whatever that is). I don’t see how that makes it wrong for him to have opinions and express them. No one has to agree with him, as far as I know.

        The noble thing about pursuing ideas is that it keeps one from doing stupid things (by tying up time, money, and other resources that we might otherwise devote to bioterrorism vel sim). Wasting time on blogs can be noble in the same way, as can taking a nap.

        People are snivelling jerks (among other things). If this experience is what it takes to show you that, then we can count that as one positive outcome from it.

  53. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    Bottom line is the stuff Jack’s trying to pull on bloggers like Evelyn – again, love ‘em or hate ‘em – should outrage anyone at all concerned with free speech. THAT deserves a full public shaming and condemnation every bit as much as the Steve Cooksey matter – and until then, no, it shouldn’t be business as usual in the paleosphere. Times like this are when true character (or lack thereof) is revealed.

    • Oh, the free speech mantra.

      I so fuckimg hate that. That’s a constitutional bullshit pussy assed consolation that relates ONLY to government.

      Let me put it this way: you don’t have free speech here, or in my living room, or bedroom, and I’d call you a pussy cunt if you offered free speech with no qualification in either of yours. You don’t have free speech in Evelyn’s house either and my substantial respect for her ability would diminish greatly if I found you did.

      But, you get to be as stupid as you want to be. That, you can do anywhere and nobody can stop you.

    • Oh, sorry, I musta fucked up, because surely you were talking ’bout like yea, man, I can accuse someone ‘a terrorist threats and it’s freedum of speeches.

      Evelyn almost certainly had nothing to do with this. However, she has been a regular critic of Kruse publicly. It is entirely rational for an investigator to have her on a list of suspects.

      Jack ought to let that play out.

      It has zero, zero, zero, zero to do with “free speech.”

      But, I dunno, maybe you’re 15.

  54. gallier2 says:

    The funny thing about Carbsane and Melissa about being named by JK is that he didn’t. Neither on TV nor in tweet or blog, he only ever talked about a blogger in New York and Chicago. As far as I remember these two towns count millions of people and probably hundreds of bloggers, that only these two feel named is quite revealing. ;-)

    But seriously, if these persons are wondering why they were “suspected” in this affair they need to take a deep little breath and look a little back at their own behaviour in this sad story. Even me, who haven’t participated in the slingfest, that were Richards posts about CT and Kruse last month, had immediately these 3 persons in mind when the news broke about the no-cruise for Kruse affair. Why, because these 3 girls had, what appears to be a real obsession with JK’s MSRA story and even stated in some comments (don’t ask me to find them) that they would try to get him stopped before he becomes a real danger.

    • Stipetic says:

      Just for prosperity’s sake, mon ami, I think quite a few people had Kamal pegged as the third girl (as opposed to the Massachusetts gal). Just sayin’.

      • gallier2 says:

        I don’t disagree, but I only stated who I was thinking about and I didn’t know about this Kamal personna. As already stated, I didn’t follow the whole JK vs the world very thoroughly, but had only noticed the vehemence of these 3 girls. Another thing to notice, the impression one has on these persons is not only forged from how they acted concerning JK, but also on their behaviours on other controversies.

      • Stipetic says:

        Understood.

    • As I mentioned above, on Tuesday morning Jack did tweet a link to one of Carbsane’s tweets (“Hope Jack doesn’t infect himself with norovirus and use CT prior to the LC Cruise!”) and labeled it #smokinggun. I think a rational person would decide that he was pointing his finger at Carbsane.

      Whether these 3 people had anything to do with tweeter feed should have never been that relevent. The “Lance” guy that called or emailed the cruise line is the dick.

      It is strange that it immediately became a witch-hunt for the tweeters and not the “Lance” guy. Jack still seems more concerned with the tweeters than with “Lance.”

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Yeah, Jack overplayed his (admittedly good) hand BIG time. When it all shakes out I’m sure a few will emerge with egg on their faces (good thing it’s low carb). Oh, great idea about the guest posts, Richard. May I in all humbleness suggest you bring the Jimmer aboard for a guest data-dump? Sorry couldn’t resist that. Peace. :)

      • ELMM,

        You have obviously never been involved in no shit litigation.

        I have.

  55. A. I’m not a girl! Although dear dear Audrey Tautou was my web avatar for a while.
    B. I most definitely didn’t send that tweet–cross my heart, and certainly am not “Lance”.
    C. It’s pretty funny that after all the vicious words exchanged between Richard and Carbsane, there’s an okay chance they’ll share a drink or at least a handshake at AHS. Crazy internet.

  56. Why are people so threatened by ice??

    • EatLessMoveMoore says:

      They get threatened, I suppose, when people practically claim to have invented it. CT = hormetic stressor. Nothing more, nothing less. So saith Robb Wolf and Dr. Kurt Harris. In the battle of the gurus, they seem as good a side as any to me (and WAY better than most ‘floating’ around out there).

  57. Dave RN says:

    How is it that they searched his cabin? When you are away, your cabin/hotel room/rental car cannot be searched without your permission. 4th amendment and all that.
    Perhaps you sign an agreement to be searched in the fine print when you buy a ticket?

    • The fine print, Dave. Plus, that doesn’t matter to me. He’s on their property. I absolutely assert the right to go through anything in my house and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking fool.

      But that’s ok. It’s fashionable, now,

Trackbacks

  1. [...] Posts RSS ← Dr. Jack Kruse Booted from Carnival 2012 Low Carb Cruise [...]

  2. [...] Terror Plots: Why a Cruise Ship Prank is a Worrying Sign That Paleo is Sunk | Naturally Engineered Dr. Jack Kruse Booted from Carnival 2012 Low Carb Cruise | Free The Animal [Meta] What's the deal with PaleoHacks, Dr. Kruse and the FBI? – PaleoHacks.com 5'4" 36yo [...]

  3. [...] The next day, thinking better of things and frankly, concerned far more about the accusation of their involvement than the [just words] I used to characterize it, I issued and apology. [...]