AHS12 Whining and Gnashing of Teeth

Update 8/14/2013: Well, one day short of a year since I originally published this. And wowzers did I catch a lot of heat for it. Someone even started a blog specifically to trash me about my “misogyny,” laf. Man, those were the days. I just read through it again for the first time since the couple of times right after publishing it and do you know what?

I. Stand. By. Every. Fucking. Word. Maggots. Now go fuck off for a second time.


When I wrote my wrap up the other day I hadn’t seen any other takes on the festivities by anyone who’d actually attended it. I assumed I was going to see pretty much the same enthusiasm I felt, expressed in different ways here and there. AHS11 received such a uniformly positive response and I didn’t see why this time would be any different.

Ah, but grasshopper, you were so dumb. AHS11 was a one-off affair conjured up by Aaron Blaisdell and Brent Pottenger (two white men, incidentally; and as such, how dare them) that against all odds was a smashing success not only in terms of the length, breadth and quality of the presenters, but in terms of attendance and plain solid work in pulling it all off competently. In my presentation there, I opened by mentioning how when they first contacted me about the idea, I basically humored them in support—not really believing it would come to pass.

But you see, now that it’s a bona fide success, it’s just a great target for attack and criticism—by people who did fuck all to make anything like that happen. Yea, there was a volunteer (who helped to make things happen) at this last one who wrote a scathing piece on the whole affair, and then there are posts elsewhere—and the commenters who love to pile on for the party.

I served as a last minute volunteer, and although I attended several of the presentations, of which one was the Moore panel, I mostly served as a gopher and registration assistant.  To that end, I took the opportunity to observe the behavior of attendees, the conference leaders and the vendors, and it was enlightening. I was already disturbed about the logo that AHS uses – it’s obvious that the two body outlines are of white northern Europeans – the male holding a spear, and the woman, a basket. The demographic at this event was almost all white, child bearing age, healthy, wealthy, highly educated, libertarian, racist, sexist and bigoted.  People were largely and obviously judged on their external appearances. Those who weren’t of the demographic were left alone – they were shunned.

Shame on Brent and Aaron for not bussing in uneducated, unhealthy, post-menopausal, fat people who could not pay…and who were also black, hispanic, asian, but comprised mostly of lots and lots of sexually undesirable women—all screened to make sure they they’re lefty democrats: racist while protesting to be not, sexist while protesting to be not, and bigoted—but the life of the party sort of bigot.

Was AHS12 by invitation only? Did one have to fill out a demographic questionnaire prior to purchasing a ticket?

I appreciate the volunteer service of that person and I hope her name was included in my wrap up because I endeavored to get the names of everyone who made it all look easy.

You see, I really don’t much like those who remind you always of how hard it is to do what they do. The ones I like are the ones who do the hard stuff and make it look easy. This is the true proof of their competence. That’s how I felt about the volunteer organizers and movers of both AHS11 and AHS12. For all her criticism of all the behind the scene conflagration and confusion, I didn’t notice a whiff of it ever. And it’s beyond me why someone as part of an organization that pulled off a success finds so much need in airing all the behind-scene dirty laundry publicly, when I believe the vast majority of paying customers were happy. Does every single thing that can be said, need to be said?

Oh, yea, I forgot: “The demographic at this event was almost all white, child bearing age, healthy, wealthy, highly educated, libertarian, racist, sexist and bigoted.”

Perhaps, at base, she wanted it to go off badly for all those awful folk.

As you’ve probably guessed by now, I could go on and on with that whole deal, but let me cut it off here with just one more “quibble.”

The male conference directors and chairs often made unilateral decisions with no leadership or management. I’ll call it intentional incompetence.

I’m not really sure whether she means that all that’d be fine if females did it, or that what needed to happen in every critical moment was to pull all volunteers off station, for a committee—ensuring to include equal representation amongst poor, unhealthy, fat, black, hispanic, asian, women, lesbian and a transvestite—to vote on it.

Yea, it’s laughable and that’s why I’m amplifying it to hyperbolic proportions.

I think at base, there’s a couple of types of folks in the world. For the most part, those attending the AHS events know that they’ll see 50% of the presentations at most, but that means they can pick and choose and what that means is: was there enough value for me, there? Yes? I’ll be back. No? Maybe not. Simple. That’s dealing with things as they really are, not as some ridiculous ideal fantasy. Then there’s the other sorts who look at it and conclude this isn’t how they would do it, and so they set about to attack and criticize those who do things that they have neither the ability or wherewithal to do themselves. And they’ve most likely never accomplished a notable thing in their lives…and so there’s an element of self loathing.

…The patriarchal criticism annoys me the most. Two guys created this. To my knowledge, they have never, ever excluded a single woman because she’s a woman. What they did was take all comers willing to help them make this real. That most of them were men is a criticism of women, and deserved praise of men. Did you hear me, laddies? Get off your asses and take what you think you can handle, or shut the fuck up and stop your whining.

It’s there for the taking. For you. I’ll be there to applaud every single success (of individuals, regardless of superficial skin color or genital arrangement).

But that’s not what some of you want, is it? Now that the really hard work is done, beginning almost 4 years ago, created by two white, privileged men, and it’s a success, some of you want it all just handed to you on the proverbial silver platter. Aren’t I right?

Last I noticed, the WAPF is pretty much dominated by women. You’ve got Sally Fallon who I believe heads the thing, and a couple of its chief cheerleaders and promoters are Ann Marie Michaels of CheeseSlave and Kelly the Kitchen Kop, both with hugely popular WAPF blogs. I’m gonna stick my neck out and guess that never in the history of the universe has a single white male ever protested the matriarchal bent to WAPF. Prove me wrong, or shut the fuck up.

…I don’t give a fuck about skin color or genital arrangements when it comes to merit or prestige. Sally Ride was the first time in my life that I really took cognizance of the harm the women’s “feminist” movement does to women. She was, to me, an astronaut, not “the first female astronaut.” It sorrows me to think she had to endure the notion that she got that gig because of how here genitals were arranged, and not because she was damn good at what she did being a physicist, and better than enough others at the time to get what she wanted.

Similarly, for Barak Obama. It’s sad for him that he’s going to go down in history as “the first black president,” and not the gig the white guys get: a skilled politician, more cunning in lying, deception, obfuscation, popularity, dynamism, money raising than everyone else at the time.


Full disclosure of conflicts of interest: I’m a white guy, northern European descent. I attended private school through HS. It was mostly white people like me. There were plenty of females, though none fat. They all believed in fairy tales, though. Lived in a co-ed dorm in college and boy did I love love love that! In the first true home I could call my own, I split rent with a black guy, Annapolis grad and football player. My wife is Hispanic, and when I met her, she made way more money than me. The company I eventually created employed 3/4 females to males and 3 of the 4 top management positions below me were manned by non-men. I have a lot of gay and lesbian friends. I remain chauvinistic, bigoted and racist…so they tell me.

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  1. Color me shocked, mostly middle aged white people without kids were the ones with the free money and time to travel to a food meeting?

    Ya, real conspiracy there…

    Isn’t that the same demographic of a U2 Concert, Bono you racist pig!!

    • “Isn’t that the same demographic of a U2 Concert, Bono you racist pig!!”

      Yea, and a million other things people evaluate for whether it will be a value to them.

      Now I’m embarrassed for the post. :)

      • The political correctness police can join the food police in eventual extinction.

      • They’re all merging. There’s a big push on these agitations in traditionally successful male fields like software engineering and gaming. Howls and cries of racism, sexism, sexual harassment, you name it. They say the nerdy white boys who were shunned by the chicks and bullied by the jocks earned their engineering and hacking prowess due to WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE. You see, they sometimes had parents who weren’t divorced and managed to get their hands on a computer back in 1990 and hence, they don’t reallly deserve their career success. Plus, there’s the stench of male nerds in software! DIVERSITY DIVERSITY DIVERSITY! Let’s liberate this horrible den of sexism from the evil white male nerds.

      • And all this while Indians in India are doing a whole lot of the coding. When I was trading options, the absolute best platform was Java based that worked as well on my Mac as my PC after I switched. That was coded by Russians in Russia. It has since been bought by TD Ameritrade.

  2. Shelley says:

    Amen, I despise “feminists.” They make it sound like I only got to where I am now because I was entitled. And then, to a black “feminist,” I only got to where I am now because I am a pretty white girl with blonde hair. I say BS – I made it to where I am because I worked for it; I sacrificed; me, me, me…. Why women want to look so weak and pathetic is beyond me.

    I am thankful for the risks some people (both male and female) previously took to ensure equal protection under the law, but it should go no further in my book. I say, “if you don’t like it, move on to something else.” Besides, why would I want to hang with or work for some jerk who only tolerates my presence.

    • Shelley, your remarks remind me of the total dismay I felt watching Robb Wolf’s “I Caveman” (yeah I know about Morgan Spurlock — hate the dirty liar!). The guys (and the one woman) were out working and hunting and walking and and and…. and the other women were lying around the camp whining. (PerHAPS it was how it was filmed, but I’m guessing not.) Even if they HAD been ‘tied’ to camp by young kids — they could have been DOING stuff! Why were they not out at the stream every single day trying to catch fish? Why were they not foraging to whatever extent they could? Nope, lying around whining… oh, and one day cutting up bark with pictures in the hopes it would “help” the men (*and one woman) out hunting. You want sexism?! There it is! (I was SO disgusted by the “performance (NOT!) of my sex!)

  3. I met many awesome people of various ages, body types, and skin colors. Apparently I didn’t find this person and give them a hug (which they rightly deserve for volunteering) and that irked them to the point that they felt a need to paint everyone there with a very broad brush. How can a person call everyone in attendance bigoted without being one themself?

  4. Alex Saveski says:

    I was pretty shocked when I read that piece. I thought that in general, AHS12 was much improved over last year’s (which I also thoroughly enjoyed). It seemed like the organizers learned a lot from AHS11 and made quite a few improvements. I also thought that there were more age groups and body-types represented, not that that really matters to me. I guess some people just love to stir-up shit and revel in their role as victim.

    • “some people just love to stir-up shit and revel in their role as victim.”

      Which they volunteered for.

      Funny, that.

  5. How the hell are we supposed to know that the two generic silhouettes are “white northern Europeans”?

    • It is implied in the very sexist nature of the depiction of divided labor according to gender – only a white European patriarchal hegemony could dare suggest such an arrangement as proper. /sarc

    • Also, the woman is carrying the basket in her hands, not on her head…ZING!

    • It’s pretty funny. Most people would agree that the silhouettes are attractive and representative of an ideal they wouldn’t mind approving of – regardless of race. And this Marxist cunt is saying that they look Northern European. Ergo, her conclusions imply her worst fears. QED

    • I think it’s pretty obvious that they’re a couple of honkeys. It’s the hair & the height. On second thought, it could just be that I’m seeing a shape and assuming it’s somebody like me. If I try, I can imagine those two being asian or aboriginal american.

    • True. I assumed they were Asians… but, then again, I hail from Japan.

  6. I was so hoping you’d pick up on that. I didn’t post a link because, frankly, I think you deserve freedom of mind, or at least, freedom from “those” people.

    It’s the tyranny of female hypoagency :)

  7. The male conference directors and chairs often made unilateral decisions with no leadership or management.

    How dare competent people make last-minute decisions to mitigate and/or solve problems brought about by unforeseen events! Who in hell do they think they are, making decisions outside of the committee of the anarcho-syndicalist collective?

  8. Ah…I’ve read through her post and now I understand. Her time and dedication to the cause were severely undervalued by the conference directors and attendees. As a volunteer, she should have been elevated as the most critical person in the event, due to the sacrifice of her time and dedication to working and having to miss the panels because she…volunteered to work and did not pay to attend. Got it.

    Her post reads like the rant of a first or second year undergrad just being exposed to Marxist ideology and has felt the “othering” being done to her and her fellow suffering gender/race minorities.

    • She feels entitled to praise. She feels everyone should just gratulate her for having a uterus.

      You have to understand. White people, especially white men, don’t work for what they achieve. They have something called privilege. It’s some magical club that makes everything hunky dory for them, and helps other people explain in a more soothing way why others are succesful and they are not. Because it couldn’t be that some white men work for their achievements, and that some non-white non-men don’t achieve something because they didn’t work for it.

      • Nietzsche’s slave morality…. in “action”: “I’m a VICTIM and therefore worthy of praise and rescue and applause and … you know… rewards I did NOT work for and don’t actually deserve, and gratitude and and and…!”

        Funny how OTHER women (volunteers and not) were not disturbed by their treatment (unless they’re being prevented by the patriarchal control of the interwebs from getting their “revolutionary” {disgusted frown} message out! Yeah, that’s it. That’s why we’re not reading a bucketful of other poor mistreated oppressed women-of-AHS2012! {eye roll}

      • You’re the first person other than myself I’ve reference sklavmoral on an interwebs forum. I think I love you…

    • Phocion Timon says:

      My god, Ms. Haines, you actually read the entire screed? You’re tougher than I am; I managed only about the first 1/3 before my eyes started watering and brain-fog set in.

      I am always amazed there are people that actually write, and think, in such a manner.

      • Well, children fascinate me. I love to watch their reasoning processes unfold. Endless source of amusement.

        She writes another blog dedicated to her suicidal tendencies. How darling.

      • Natalie says:

        Probably not enough animal fat in her diet.

      • “I am always amazed there are people that actually write, and think, in such a manner.”

        There’s a volume of books in that if anyone’s interested.

  9. Instead of whining about it, this person can go recruit the “missing” demographics she was appalled weren’t there.

    By the way… where’s her outrage for my absence? I’m a white male and I couldn’t go. Maybe she’d like to pay for tickets and travel for my wife and I next time (my wife is off-the-boat Peruvian)….. Shit!! Nope… she’s also healthy looking… nevermind

  10. As one of the kind of persons on whose behalf she’s kvetching that there were not enough of us there (I didn’t attend), I say to her, “Go fuck yourself!” (Oh, I’ve assumed she’s a woman? Assessing her writing, I think she’d prefer not to be typed by gender, she’d rather be referred to as “it”?) I’m so sick and tired of whiny-ass bitches like her using the likes of me to make her political points. I’m not your damn pawn, lady!

    Richard, how the heck did you even read that post of hers?

    • William says:

      To Rhonda, and Shelley: I just love to hear non-leftist women speak. Really gives my ol’ corpuscles a charge! 😉

  11. Good point on Zack’s part; why doesn’t this person “make her mark” on the Paleo community by going out and drumming u–er, to militaristic? I meant Beating the bu–darn it! That’s probably sexist! I mean, recruiti–still too paternal/militant. Well, no wonder there’s not enough of the supposed under-represented demographic there. Or is this person waiting for some official entity to do that for them? Seems to me some entitled white doctor who presented at AHS said we couldn’t count on governing bodies to do things like this…

  12. I have to point this out too:

    Here is a picture in her post: https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/404047_356189654417519_1771959431_n.jpg

    Please note the male:female ratio of this picture and the foreground non-white female.

  13. From the scathing report:

    “And the whisper and whiff of white supremacism and caucasian orientation was frankly very off-putting and disconcerting. ”

    I’m not saying that the author is maybe a little removed from reality, I’m just saying that there are a lot of people on the internet who are a little removed from reality.

    • Yeah. ‘cuz I’ve always been able to smell white supremacism. Smells like… like victory. Perhaps as somebody who suffers from low self esteem she is mistaking healthy confidence for these other things.

  14. Richard

    You know better than to defensively answer a Stalinist smear job of normal, healthy people being normal and healthy as something offensive. Success, health, beauty and wealth must be punished. Those sick, racist bourgeoisie, how dare they appear happy and content? The White Bourgeoisie must always repent for certain crimes of their ancestors which we shall not ever examine for other races and ethnicities!

    My only response to this creed is to spit in its direction and tell the writer to fuck off and stay away from such an event in the future.

  15. Any of you losers pointing out the existence of minorities or women in attendance or the organization of the event are being pathetic. DO NOT defend yourself against Stalinist smearjobs. The giveaway of the Stalinist smearjob is that simply the appearance of healthy, middle-class white people is offensive to them when nothing regarding race or ethnicity has been said and no one turned away. Tell them to not-so-politely fuck off, and do not apologize for being yourself.

  16. So the black cartoon logo for AHS was a depiction of white people?

    Is this why the logo for AHS is now a tree? -> http://ancestralhealthsymposium2012.weebly.com/index.html

    I’m offended, because that tree is obviously deciduous, and demonstrates a clear lack of representation by older and less prevalent coniferous species.

  17. I was quite shocked at that diatribe, as well as the smattering of other negative comments popping up online. While at the conference, I heard nothing but enthusiastic gushing about how amazingly awesome we all thought the whole event was. No sarcasm here – I was gushing most enthusiastically of all. I LOVED the entire thing (well, with the possible exception of the “Banquet” [sic] at the end, which I’m sure was not the fault of the AHS organizers).

    The infighting and snark within the Paleo community is disheartening. We are all fallible humans and are bound to ruffle each other’s feathers at times. Let’s be gentle and accepting of our differences. Can’t we all just get along? *strums guitar*

  18. William says:

    It’s funny how just the other day I was thinking about when [racists] would pull out the race, and class warfare card against paleo folks. And what better place to do it than Harvard Law School? As Gerald Celente says, “I’ve got the problem narrowed down to six phrases: Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and bullets, bombs, and banks.” Leave it to an overeducated dunce with a high affluent college degree to make asinine statements about wealthy libertarians bigots… and why not, everybody is, if they are not in lock step with leftist ideas (not that the right is much better!) The clod, and his nanny “partner” in the WH have done more to perpetuate this crap than anyone in recent memory. And of course dummies like the the one who wrote the critique follow mindlessly along.

    “You see, I really don’t much like those who remind you always of how hard it is to do what they do. The ones I like are the ones who do the hard stuff and make it look easy. This is the true proof of their competence.” That’s the spirit!

    Tip for AHS 13: Hold it at the Nikoley mountain property, and forget about the halls of overeducated idiots.

    • The libertarian thing confounded me the most. The libertarian philosophy is the least racist political philosophy that I know of. ‘course maybe that’s because I’m a libertarian.

    • Pablito says:

      “The clod, and his nanny “partner” in the WH…”

      Maybe I’m totally misreading you, but isn’t that a pretty disgusting summary of our president and his wife?

      The test: Would you say the same thing if they were white?

      • William says:

        “The test: Would you say the same thing if they were white?”
        I absolutely would! Go use your disgusting race-baiting tactics elsewhere!

      • William says:

        Our president? Who is our? I guess you are speaking for the collective that believes in the myth of the state.

      • Pablito says:

        If you are an American citizen, our president. Just like GW before him, who I loathed as president, he was my president, then, too.

        I presume that your dreaded collective will not be asked to help you the next time you think of calling 911. That you will bind your own wounds, put out your own fire. Or your dreaded collective public education. Or military. Or libraries. Or parks. Or roads.

        “Keep your government hands off of my Medicare!” Fools.

      • Pablito says:

        Why do I doubt that you would have called either Mrs. Bush “nanny?”

        Perhaps your heart is indeed pure as wind driven snow, but it doesn’t look that way to me.

      • It seems Pablito’s Seekrit Racism detector is working well… go ahead and confess your sins of speaking in Seekrit Racist Code…

  19. I was there at AHS11.
    Here’s who I am:
    1. Guilty as charged for being white and employed.
    2. A female volunteer who loved it and found it to be pretty well organized despite UCLA’s spread out campus.
    3. No where near child bearing age.
    4. self employed, mostly a mom, not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination.
    5. I hold a highly coveted lisence of Cosmetololgy. Jealousy abounds.
    6. I am Not ‘libertarian, racist, sexist and bigoted’, nor did I find any of the talks to represent that odd viewpoint.

    To say that person missed the mark would be a gianourmous understatement.
    And I loved your talk. I hope that next year they come back to Cali and I can attend again.

  20. Oh shit I forgot the most important point!
    7. I have cancer. So am I healthy or just fooling everyone?

  21. Tom Scott says:

    I followed your link and read the post she had. Then when she replied to commenters with the linkable “AEK” I followed that. I have the feeling from reading the second page that this is a very disturbed person.

  22. “Not every insult requires a response” . Richard, the more famous paleo becomes and yourself the more wingnuts are going to comment.

    I had no idea who or what carbsane was until you breathed life into her here and I had no idea nor cared about this newest wingnut until you brought her notoriety here.

    Is it your aim in life to bring as much notoriety and fame to these people as possible or perhaps maybe your goals in life might be more easily accomplished if you quit wasting time on these people.

    There is a time worn and well known and trusted method of dealing with these kind of people online summed up in a simple phrase: “don’t feed the trolls”.

    If you ignore anything you don’t want to see more of it will die of it’s own accord.

    I’d love to see you pick b0nes with worthy targets but this is just like punching kittens in the face for amusement.

    • JohnC

      I’ve been at this a long while. Believe me, I didn’t make Carbsane–Jimmy did. As for this one, I debated whether to just mention or actually link. I concluded that there’s no way I can launch her to blogging fame even if I tried.

      In general, I agree with you. These cases are specific.

  23. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    Good for her – she totally gets Jimmy Moore (‘blogger huckster’), and is perceptive enough to recognize the enabling that goes on among podcast guests. Haven’t heard anyone articulate this so well since Dr. Kurt Harris.

    • Perceptive? To her, anyone white and male is “the Other”.

      Typical cultural Marxist.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Oh, come on… The crux of her piece, I think, is the incestuous relationship between Mr. Moore’s webpire and his ‘guests’ – as he again successfully re-brands his latest diet as ‘paleo’ (when in fact no civilization in history has eaten like that). ‘[E]ating disordered-based dieting’ indeed. Where’s Kurt Harris when we need him?

      • ELMM

        You have a most curious, warped, 3rd hand perception of Jimmy’s influence at eithe AHS.

        You might ask people who have actually attended either or both.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        I doubt it. The question is simply this: What was he doing there in the first place? His message is not now (especially not now) and never has been paleo or ancestral – even by the most charitable, big-tent conceptions of the terms. He’s ‘paleo’ because a percentage of his readers self-identified as such (and because old-fashioned, Atkins-style low carb was a sinking ship). And all of this would be fine if he admitted as much, which I think was what that blogger was pointing out the glaring lack of: transparency. Leadership roles in a movement should be given to its intellectual capital – not its slickest salesmen.

      • ELMM

        I’ve never understood the fear of Jimmy Moore. I just don’t. Sorry. I. Certainly have no fear of what he has in mind, if anything supposedly nefarious.

  24. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    It’s just so transparently ridiculous. Some of us get frustrated that so few will admit to seeing it. If paleo wants longevity – and not fad status – this isn’t the way to bring that about. Same deal with Jack Kruse. A minority spoke up well before critical mass was reached, and we all know how that went down.

    • I think Jimmy has been pretty transparent about his failings and I assume everyone knows it unless they’re blind. Seems to me you’re assuming there’s protection of the unsuspecting that needs doing and I don’t really see that.

      I think a lot of people identify with Jimmy for various reasons and I also think he minds his business well enough as concerns paleo in general and AHS in particular. YMMV, but I just don’t wring hands over Jimmy and I don’t think others do much either–like Wolf or Sisson.

    • ELMM, I can’t even begin to imagine how small and pathetic your life must be if you consider what Jimmy Moore has to be a “webpire.” And the fact that you are carbsane’s self-appointed publicist/hit-posse is even sadder. I mean, you must be living in a box and typing your blog comments into an Internet terminal you reserve at your local library by the half hour.

      Shouldn’t you be doing something constructive with your time? Like panhandling?

      That would be a big step up from spending your days typing in anonymous attack pieces in the service of a nasty oddball who spends her days emailing conference organizers lobbying to get speakers who annoy her banned (and not even getting the courtesy of a reply.)

      The pathology just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        The day Jimmy gets a real job is the day I’ll stop calling it a webpire.

      • Are you ever going to get a real job?

        Everything must look like an empire to you.

  25. Note to Lara:

    I get that you can’t help but read and comment on virtually every single post this “little man” puts up. But unless you put up at least a couple of sentences passable enough to at least comment on or rebut, I’m just going to delete your comments. Not ban you, just delete your comment when I see it,

    So do give it your best shot if you bother, next time.


    • Not sure what you are talking about. Look inside, maybe?

    • the 21 thing is chock full of men with damaged egos and ultra low self esteem who are compensating big time in the circle jerk of life my god! Don’t you question, as others do, your involvement there — and frankly, the whole gig? Is it a men’s club? Ya’ll like the smell of one another? Lost

      • “the 21 thing…”

        You’re quite ignorant. Sisson has spoken here, Mc Guff. This is my second year, and Mc Guff is here again too. In fact, I speak after Greg Swann, who wrote a whole chapter in his book slamming the pickup community. That’s why he was invited to speak.

        You’re ignorant. Again, no surprise to me.

      • You mean the same way Lilith Fair concerts, NOW meetings, and the comments section of any Jezebel article are full of self-righteous harpies going down on each other in a spiral of “poor oppressed by teh patriarckeeee!” me?

  26. Great points! !

  27. I’m a new reader, and I was really enjoying this blog until I came across this post.

    Regardless of whether or not you agree with the assessment of the demographics at this event (or think that demographics are an issue worth considering at all) the misogyny in your response is grating.

    It sounds as if you think the worst thing a woman could possibly be is sexually undesirable. Here’s a tip – not all women want to be desired by men, and those that don’t have just as much right to participation as the others.

    You’ve made some valid criticisms too and I think you might be interested in the libertarian feminist community who don’t have quite the same attitude as the feminists you’re talking about. But seriously. You’re not helping your own case by mocking the women who don’t fit the demographic the linked post is talking about.

    • “It sounds as if you think the worst thing a woman could possibly be is sexually undesirable.”

      Depends on whether she wants her genes to continue participating in the evolutionary Olympics or not, I suppose.

    • Imo the worst thing a woman could possibly be is a serial killer. Next to that being sexually undesirable is nothing.

      • If you are dealing with a fugly serial killer then you probably have a zombie on your hands, because

        all zombies are fugly; and
        all zombies are serial killers

        Zombies have a strong interest in Paleo because their diet consists entirely of brains.

        I think the blogger in question may have seen a group of zombies at AHS and mistaken them for white supremists, which is easy to do because members of both groups have pasty complexions and limited intellectual capacity.

        So the real story here is that AHS 2012 was infested by zombies.

      • I know zombies made it into my livetweeting of AHS12 a few times….

      • Christie says:

        slow, clumsy, mob loving zombies, lol

    • Guest:

      OK, thanks for the opportunity to elaborate.

      First, how come you toss out the “misogyny” card so easily, so early? I think there are actually very few misogynists in the world; otherwise, we’d have gone extinct. What there really is, is antagonism, between men and women. I think that’s a good thing. That helps us to learn from each other.

      “It sounds as if you think the worst thing a woman could possibly be is sexually undesirable.”

      No, that was simply an analog in the context owing to what I was referencing. The worst thing in the world, in the context of my post, is _not_ looking like you ought to look if you were a wild human animal. Wild animals are sexually attractive, nearly by definition. Only humans make themselves otherwise on purpose, or by default…then whine about the consequences. All wild females get pursued and fucked by males regularly, every chance. Not so with domesticated humans.

      In fact, I did note that at this AHS, there were more obese folks who had the courage to show themselves. The one in LA was a far younger demographic. I applaud that tis was different, but it’s not the same as saying AHS is effed because there aren’t fat women making decisions.

      Back to context. This isn’t an insurance or real estate conference where one might remark at how people presented themselves in professional attire and grooming. This is AHS, and a big part of that is about looking as best as you can body composition wise. See? Context is always everything.

      And so imagine that at the insurance or r/e conference, someone complained that no poorly dressed bums were represented, making decisions.


  28. BTW – what the fuck is wrong with 2 white guys doing whatever they like to do their money and time, as long as they are not stealing yours and leaving you alone to do whatever you like with your time and money.
    This Cargo Cult imbecile should read this:

    And for full disclosure – I am neither white nor Black.. just somewhere in the middle.

    • Sam:

      I like Fred on Everything. I stop in from time to time. Fucking good writer, and that means everything.

      • William says:

        Fred is definitely my kind of guy. Never miss his column at LRC. His blog site is on my “Daily Read” bookmark. Of course, Rhonda, Shelley, and Amy who post here are definitely my kind of gals! 😉

      • Shelley says:

        :-) thanks William.

        Having worked in a white male-dominated field my whole career, I, unlike the few female co-workers, never cared about the men being “men.” They joke, sometimes at my expense, and I usually laugh and roll my eyes; I may join them for a couple minutes while they smoke their cigars in the parking lot or not; I wave to them while they’re at their all-male morning prayer group in the cafeteria while getting my breakfast; I don’t flinch or criticize if they want to say “fuck” in a meeting; my husband and I may hang with them over a Sunday football game.

        What I found was that I got more respect – not by acting like them or forcing them to change – but accepting them. I notice the jokes became cleaner, they apologized for cussing, they held doors open for me, and never bothered me on traveling trips. There is a huge difference to me that I earned their respect for being me instead of someone forcing them to “respect” me because they have a quota of women they need to meet – though they did have that quota forced upon them, and at least I know they most always promoted me. :-)

      • Aaaaaw, thanks for the kind words William.

  29. Richard, I like it when you attack pushy public figures (bariatric surgeon Dr. Garth Davis or fruitarian Durian Rider), but this aggressive tone is not okay for a normal volunteer or blogger.

    Even if the quoted part is over the top, you could also value that we get some honest feedback. That is a rare gift and many other parts of her criticism are well worth thinking about. I would not mind if the paleo movement would grow and be able to help more people become more healthy, to do so we will need to become more inclusive. This free the animal post was not a step in that direction.

    • Unfortunately I can no longer read the original critical post, but I’m not sure what Richard should have done differently. Was there any constructive criticism in the original, or was it all whining? Do you have any constructive suggestions on what Richard could/should do to be more inclusive? I share Richard’s lack of patience with people who seem to focus on tearing down the work of others. Instead of offering up something constructive.

      I highly value diversity on a personal level, but I have not noticed anything that Nikoley or anybody associated with “paleo” has done that has been exclusive. The closest thing I can think of has been Taubes’ spiel about “fat Luisa” and I always interpreted that as him quoting a jerk to show how jerky the jerk was.

      • Ha, hilarious. Apparently, Miss All-Inclusive has made her blog by invitation only.

        If that doesn’t speak volumes, I don’t know what could.

      • Joshua, the easiest way for Richard to be more inclusive would have been not to launch an angry attack on a volunteer of the AHS12. It is one thing to harshly attack publicity seeking public figures. Davis and Rider seek publicity and probably even welcome the attention they get from Richard. But you do not treat normal people that way and especially people of your own tribe.

        This volunteer clearly was not seeking attention, which is also why she closed her blog. The last post I read was that she had received threats from people in real life, that she mainly keeps her blog to help her remember things and that she had decided to stop blogging. To find it funny, that an attack post shocked someone and caused a retreat, shows a worrying lack of human sympathy.

        That she did not feel welcome is in itself important feedback. Unfortunately, I also did not make a copy of her post. I understand why she did not feel welcome, also I feel that the paleo community has a lot of self-centred people in it, maybe they are just the most vocal ones, but it does not help to spread our paleo ideas to more progressive people or, for example, to Europe. Expensive food, supplements and gear are of interest, the fate of indigeneous hunter gatherer groups is not. Hunting is a hobby of many, nature conservation does not get much attention, while the importance of contact with nature is seen as important. I keep on reading these blogs because the ideas have helped me immensely with my health, but it would be great to have some more diverse voices in this community. Richard is welcome to keep being a shock blogger, that is also part of diversity, but it would be nice if he would focus his attention on vegans, etc.

      • Her blog seems to be back.

        Comments on AHS12:

        Announcement to stop blogging:

      • “….launch an angry attack on a volunteer of the AHS12.”

        You have, to me, an odd sense of both angry and attack.

        “I appreciate the volunteer service of that person and I hope her name was included in my wrap up because I endeavored to get the names of everyone who made it all look easy.

        “You see, I really don’t much like those who remind you always of how hard it is to do what they do. The ones I like are the ones who do the hard stuff and make it look easy. This is the true proof of their competence. That’s how I felt about the volunteer organizers and movers of both AHS11 and AHS12. For all her criticism of all the behind the scene conflagration and confusion, I didn’t notice a whiff of it ever. And it’s beyond me why someone as part of an organization that pulled off a success finds so much need in airing all the behind-scene dirty laundry publicly, when I believe the vast majority of paying customers were happy. Does every single thing that can be said, need to be said?”

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        I don’t think Richard did anything out of line. His readers – such as they are – well, I shudder to think.

  30. What a mess of a post.

  31. I’m confused as to how someone can be both “Highly educated” and “racist, sexist, and bigoted”? Those two are generally antithetical…

    • I don’t think this is true.

      Equal Opportunity (capitalized) is the work of the educated, and is the definition of racist (if you accept “racist” to be defined as ‘taking action upon somebody based primarily on race’). This is a perfect example of creating a problem in an attempt to fix a problem, rather than just fixing a problem.

      The medical community, almost always having been highly educated, has a long history of being highly sexist, and rather bigoted.

      “Educated” doesn’t necessarily mean intelligent, free thinking, or open minded. In many regards, being highly educated just means you’re strongly indoctrinated; whether that is indoctrination for good or bad is a crap-shoot after that.

      And the majority is not the only group that can be bigoted.

  32. It’s this comment ‘The demographic at this event was almost all white, child bearing age, healthy, wealthy, highly educated, libertarian, racist, sexist and bigoted. People were largely and obviously judged on their external appearances” that bothers me the most. In these two sentences she shows how SHE is judging people on their external appearances and look how many judgements she makes. I say before you call other people bigots go take a good hard look in the mirror.

  33. Bill Strahan says:

    I think I understand, coming from a white male dominated world. My entire life has been controlled and run by one white male after another.

    It was my dad until I moved out, and me ever since.

    If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Conversely, if all you have is a nail everything might be a hammer. Finally, if you are a victim, everyone else might look like a victimizer.

    If you are 100% certain you’re a victim then you have to fabricate victimizers when necessary because the absence of victimizers challenges your very identity. Many humans will substitute obvious fiction for reality long before they call their identity into question.

    Perhaps the most important decisions you ever make are those that lead to your choice of identity.

    • Shelley says:

      Bill – “Perhaps the most important decisions you ever make are those that lead to your choice of identity.” – very perceptive observations, and I can’t agree more.

  34. Richard, I want to thank you deeply for the following:

    >> “I think there are actually very few misogynists in the world; otherwise, we’d have gone extinct. What there really is, is antagonism, between men and women.”

    THIS. So much, this. Thankyou.

    As a recovering young “feminist” (one year post ‘red pill’, and destructive cognitive habits die hard) I struggle with finding alternate language to offer people whenever I point out, “Actually, saying or thinking _____ is not misogyny.” In the resulting conversational pile-on (or sometimes just cold stares of shaming disapproval and the wordless collective promise that I *will* be ripped apart in gory detail as soon as I leave the room–hallmarks of “the sisterhood”) I’m often demanded to answer, “Well if it’s not misogyny, what *is* it?” I’ve never been able to figure out a concise, appropriate, stigma-free word before.

    “Antagonism” is perfect. And I agree, I think it’s a good thing that we can all learn from. Thanks for the vocabulary-add, very valuable. :)


    >> “Wild animals are sexually attractive, nearly by definition.”

    This is some zen-slap truth and wisdom. I actually said, ‘Aha!’ out loud in the cafe. I’ll be remembering this one next time I hear whinging about “oppressive patriarchal beauty standards” or get shit from coworkers for turning down a slice of crappy store-bought birthday cake, or from friends when I clearly make a priority to look after my waist-to-hip ratio.

    Thanks for all you write, Richard. :) I knew I read the comments today for a good reason!

    PS: For future blogging reference… in the age of people deleting their blogs or turning coward when they can’t back up their statements/take criticism after airing them publicly, this is a really useful tool to use for linking, way before they can turn tail and run: http://www.webcitation.org/archive
    Hope this helps!

    • Zell:

      You are exactly and precisely the sort of person I primarily blog for—red pill addicts. 21 years and counting for me. …Not to say I don’t still change my mind or further refine my thinking, but as they say, there’s nothing like the first time.

      Thank you.

  35. Also, I poked at google’s cache and found the original entry, if you need to fix the link in your post:

  36. She is a victim, people. Let her be.

  37. Daniel Kirsner says:

    This is very you, Richard :

  38. Well fucking said, Richard. A very solid post. Grow a pair of balls and do what you want to do and accomplish what you can…regardless of skin or gender!!!

    As a WAPF’er, go to a Wise Traditions Conference and you are surrounded by mothers and grandmothers and some smart farmers who are making the best of it…but, who the fuck cares??

  39. Hey, Richard, you’ve got “Wooo” posting here, who is the epitome of everything that you are criticizing in this post. She despises older white men, and that particularly meant YOU when you were posting at Carbsane’s those weeks ago. Then she has also been bitching about ‘obnoxious caucasians” there and bragging about being part African. Typical politically-correct shithead and a TRUE racist of the reverse kind.

    So WTF is she doing reading your blog if she despises you so much? Maybe she secretly wants you.

    • Yep. Not a whiff of sympathy with cultural marxist haters and agitators.

    • Oh yeah? Well I’m full-blooded African. You have to go back several thousand generations though.

    • HahaHo

      Ok, sit down because this might shock you.

      There’s a lot of things I like about Wooo. Some I don’t, but I don’t require that a person like me, be like me, or agree with me for me to find things I like about them. Off the top of my head and in my admittedly limited experience with her, here’s what I like:

      – she has passion
      – she’s not obsessed with what people think of her
      – she’s confident in her ideas
      – though rough around the edges and too stream of consciousness often, she’s often an entertaining writer and I get a kick out of her style–it’s honest and I count myself objective enough to think that I appreciate truly honest expression I disagree with over flowery, careful expression where I agree.

      I take the fact that she still pops in here to check out what I’m doing and comments without fear of what I might unpredictably do about it as courageous and honest and so it’s as simple as that.

      Frankly, I can’t even remember whether her rants about me were something that really matters to me. Were they accurate? No, not in wide context. Dishonest? I rather think it’s a lashing out similar to what I do with the “authorities,” just in a different context. I can take it and after all, if one is afraid to read and consider criticism of themselves, that’s probably the worst sin of all.

      So there you go.

      • HaHaHo is just some carbsane lackey trying to stir up shit. 50% chance it’s ELMM or ‘Lara’ sock-puppeting.

        And Woo hardly ‘despises’ Richard. Carbsane, she despises. And Guyenet makes her foam at the mouth. (Amusingly, to me, because I don’t think he deserves to be taken as seriously as he’s been.)

        But Taubes made Stephan, and now the rest of us are stuck with him. :-/

    • See, HahaHo?

      Now, I may not fully agree with her rant on you–which I don’t know because I’m ignorant of what you’re about and don’t recall interacting with you.

      But at least she put her stuff out there with unabashed gusto and style, and if you read my blog much, you might understand why.

      “Fly fast, sin boldly.” – William P. Lear Jr

  40. Karl M. says:

    Wow! Talk about whining and gnashing of teeth. A long rant, and all this pomposity because someone didn’t like your precious little conference…..

    • “Talk about whining and gnashing of teeth”

      No, you go ahead, because I already did. It’s in the post.

      Yep, I criticized someone for being overly critical. It’s such a per se contradiction for people who were home sick the day they talked about _context_ in school.

    • Oh, And Karl. AHS sold out in its inaugural year and again this year within week of offering tickets and in year two, the price was more than double because of the catered lunch both days and the fact that they had twice as meany speakers. Over 600 attendees (30 vs 60 speakers) and limited by venue. Both would have been far bigger with a bigger venue

      It was held as UCLA in general the first year and Harvard Law School the second, under co-sponsorship of the Harvard Food Law Society and the Ancesral Health Society. They are seeking a far larger venue for next year because the people who wanted tickets but couldn’t get them were more than those actually attending.

      So yea, it’s a ‘precious little conference.’

      • Lol it’s comments like these for which memes come in handy.

        Haterz gonna hate…

      • Indeed. You never know where they’re coming from. But they always come. I have no idea from where. Hell, there’s more criticism about me out there now than ever, some even spearheaded by someone I thought was a friend (it was a total surprise when I found out). We even had an email exchange weeks ago.

        Whatever. She’s with her preferred tribe now. It won’t go anywhere ever at all, but at least she’ll be commiserating with misery.

  41. “Did you hear me, laddies? Get off your asses and take what you think you can handle, or shut the fuck up and stop your whining.” ~The white Booker T. Washington.

    I wrote a paper for school and that was my thesis. Got a C-

  42. That was Booker’s unpopular assesment of the blacks when he wrote “Up from Slavery”. I paralleled that with the feminist movement. Professor was a black femminist.

  43. Oh shit I think I just made myself a victim.

  44. Steve W says:

    “All wild females get pursued and fucked by males regularly, every chance. Not so with domesticated humans.”

    Can this please be the new byline of FTA?

  45. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    Joe: Perhaps you’re not aware, but I’m anti-CarbSane these days. I still think Moore’s a cornpone asshat, but Evelyn’s shown herself to be more than capable of the very same lameness – banning dissenters, stonewalling on AHS13, etc.

  46. William says:

    It was fun reading comments from last year, including my own. My view hasn’t changed a bit, and the constantly looking for grievances set hasn’t changed either. To them, I’m still a racist, homophobe, sexist, capitalist pig, even though the facts show a different picture. Never mind that my physician is not only a woman, but is black. Never mind that my best man was black. Never mind that my next door neighbor was gay (best man, and neighbor are now deceased) and we looked out for each other’s property when we were away. Hell, I didn’t even mind listening to the Grateful Dead blaring from his house for three hours every Saturday night! Never mind that during my bar circuit days, some of my beer drinking, and pool playing pals are lesbians. But it doesn’t matter to these people who have been chronically pissed off at high achievers ever since they took some assholish hyphenated course from an equally assholish commie loving professor during their freshman year of college.

    Cest la vie! I’ll just go read some Fred Reed, as I did last year about this time.


  1. […] for Evelyn, she's pretty much just rehashing everything over and over; and even in the new twist of my post on the AHS volunteer, one of her own supportive commenters (then another—both who don’t like me) grudgingly admitted […]

  2. […] Convention) and Keith & Michelle Norris (Paleo fx) for dinner and we were talking about my AHS "Whining and Gnashing of Teeth" post, the volunteer behind it, etc. Jolly called up the cached version of the volunteer's post, […]

  3. […] please, please do have some decency, and stop implicating that AHS volunteer you've mercilessly propped up and used, to transparent ends that are yours only yours. Who […]

  4. […] (basically: too many rich white people, not enough minorities, poor people, sick people — . I did my kinda standard, libertarian sort of hit & run on the […]

  5. […] in case you thought that pinning my scathing and righteous rebuke of a dumbass AHS12 volunteer to the top of the blog yesterd… was in any measure sour grapes—because I'm neither presenting (didn't apply) or attending this […]

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