My Response Regarding The Critics

Edited from a comment posted on an unrelated thread after saying I had no comment and being admonished to comment anyway.

~~~

EatLessMoveMoore:

OK, I’ll throw you a bone in general—even though I suspect you’re just trying to (nicely and respectfully) bait and goad me into doing what both of those women might dearly love, and issue my “standard treatment” in a post.

Well, I’ve already done that way back and that's done for good. As for Evelyn, she's pretty much just rehashing everything over and over; and even in the new twist of my post on the AHS volunteer, one of her own supportive commenters (then another—both who don’t like me) grudgingly admitted that on a closer reading of my post, I wasn’t attacking that person individually, but some of her silly notions about what AHS was and should be in my opinion.

I do have a post in draft clarifying that.

As for Melissa, I’m unsure of her motivations. That blog, while much is about me, much is also about others; and increasingly, Paleo/AHS in general. She’s just getting it started and things like that tend to be hard to judge in initial stages. It may surprise you, but I’m open to the possibility that it might turn out to be more constructive, like her regular blog is. I find it hard to accept that Melissa is at base the sort of nasty, bitter person who only finds fault in others. She has done a great deal to advance this whole movement going all the way back to the NYT piece and then her blog, and I don’t easily toss earned capital aside.

Furthermore, not responding directly to critics is not the same as ignoring them completely. I suppose it’s different for different things (such as performance artists, etc.). I do read pretty much all the criticisms of me I’m aware of or made aware of, and I do try to be open minded about it after the initial surge of anger or indignation. I’m a huge fan of dialectic (thesis, antithesis, synthesis) and I believe it absurd to think that we’re not in some ways shaped by what others say about us, good and bad. It’s a long process, hopefully to the betterment of all.

I’m also a big fan of lemonade, if you know what I mean. I do want to do more good than harm out there, so when there are reasonable arguments that I’m doing real and not just perceived harm, I want to take note of those charges and consider them. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong; and the only thing to do is to stop being wrong. Simple. Logic. Egos sometimes need to be put in check.

The Kruse thing was a very bad error in judgment on my part, and the c-word thing, an error in doubling down when I should have been folding (as Robb Wolf did in that same situation, the LC Cruse incident). Had I done that then, none of this would be happening now. I caused it and brought all this on my self. Oh, well. Live & learn. I was at least able to chat some cordial hellos with Emily Deans at AHS, and she even mentioned it—I think in comments on Evelyn’s blog—and that she’s not a grudge holder. Me either. So that’s good.

Bottom line: It’s absurd to think that I or anyone else can’t use some criticism. But, perhaps Melissa, et al, is out to see to my destruction in terms of Paleo/Health blogging. I’d suggest there’s probably better uses of her time, but I don’t tell people what they should or shouldn’t do. I’m still considering some of the criticism of me and how it might mold what I do going forward, but I can also say that at least some of the criticism of Paleo/AHS I've seen so far is very much worth paying attention to, y’know, for those who want to improve and do better.

So there you have it.

~~~

As an additional note, Stefani Ruper of Paleo For Women has unfortunately been drawn into this for her implied association with me in connection with the guest post she did here: No One’s Power but Our Own: Paleo Sexist Woes, and an Invitation to Rise Up and Roar. As of right now, that post has a remarkable 62 ReTweets and an astounding 747 Facebook Likes—the most ever for any post on this blog.

She's under pressure from a number of women to publicly denounce me and request that I take the post down.

...It's suggested that I sought out Stefani for that post for largely the same reason I married a Latina, roomed with black guys in the past, employed mostly female Hispanics in my company and have gay and lesbian friends: as a smokescreen to hide my true nature of sexism, white supremacy, domination and misogyny because, you know, words in blog posts over a short time speak louder than actions over a lifetime.

Whatever...

In fact, Stefani emailed me to tell me she was going to write a post for my blog and suggested I damn well post it if I know what's good for me, because she will be heard. That's how it's done, folks. She knew how to deal with me.

For those who asked me why I didn't go after her in that AHS post because she had done a post on the masculin focus at AHS (she's taken it down in favor of more positive endeavors). Two reasons:

  1. It was not my intention to go after anyone personally—as those who've read my post more carefully now know—but to criticize some of the notions of what AHS lacks and should be in terms of "diversity." So to the extent that what Stefani advocates falls into that category, you could consider that my post covers it in general.
  2. Stefani knows I don't agree with her on some stuff, and I know she doesn't agree with me on some stuff. We both know where we do agree and what's most important. But here's the essential difference. Stefani isn't sitting around complaining that the women's issues important to her in a Paleo context aren't being emphasized enough by men so women can sit back and take them in. She went out and created a blog focussed on those issues and values important to her, and I'm quite delighted that her guest post on my blog helped her to advance those goals and values.

Stefani is a doer and in no way do I even remotely require that what she does meets all of my standards of what's most important. Simple as that.

Incidentally, in case anyone is going to assume I'm putting this up here in order to "butter Stefani up" so she doesn't fall under the pressure to denounce me and request taking down that post, the foregoing has already been discussed with Stefani personally in email exchanges. We were and remain cool with one another.

Comments

  1. I probably contributed to the ratcheting up on the AHS post. I make no apologies in this case because when people start name-calling using fashionable cultural marxist terms like ‘racist’,’sexist’ etc etc, THEY SHOULD NOT BE HUMORED unless they have solid evidence for their case. And the post you highlighted was in one of those obscene categories – simply hating people because they are white, middle class, child-bearing and happy. People like that deserve NO BONE at all. If they have done good elsewhere, they should be commended for that, but we should make it really clear that bullshit name-calling is not to be tolerated without serious cause. It’s already getting out of hand elsewhere that we are having to apologize and defend our communities simply because they contain certain demographics and not others when no evidence for exclusion is presented.

    • I was surprised that my post was misconstrued as calling her those names. I haven’t gone back to see how that could have happened but I will as part of the post I’m drafting now. There were two thrusts to that post. The first was to criticize the notion that the people who self-select for Paleo/Ancestral, or those who organize events for those people owe anyone a certain level of demographic diversity–or that the demographic being what it is implies some culpability on the part of individuals in that demographic for not being more diverse.

      The second thrust was head scratching over airing organizational problems dirty laundry in public when so far as I know, the participants were quite happy with how those organizers pulled it off, including the work of that volunteer. And I believe I expressed appreciation for her volunteer service.

      The post I’m drafting now is going to be The Definitive Guide to Acieving Diversity Everywhere, or something like that and believe it or not, it will be 100% constructive. You value diversity? Well read my post when it comes out because I’ll show you how to really achieve it if that’s your value.

  2. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    A brilliant response – and one that neither Kruse nor Jimmy could write on their best day. An object lesson in how to deal with not-altogether-reasonable criticism.

  3. Karnivore says:

    So what do you think of kruse now? Despite him “lying”, do you believe his blogs/writings to be good? How about epi-paleo?

    • Karnivore

      I have not been following Jack so I don’t know what he’s up to. He has reached out to me a couple of times and I’ve been cordial with him in my responses. He wished my bro-in-law a recovery and even dropped a comment concerning some of the medical issues to watch out for.

      I am a sucker for redemption. I doubt that means I’m ever going to promote him in any way, but if he manages to genuinely help people and they’re fine with him then I have no basis to complain.

  4. Why close comments now and not when people were calling me a bitch/cunt/dragging my personal life through the mud? I know you moderate comments, I know you edit posts. I’ve seen you do it.

    End FTA as a hate circus. Start using Disqus for your comments and have some modicum of creating a civil non-anti-intellectual environment where people talk instead of calling each other cunts/bitches/fuckoffs.

    I didn’t attend AHS because of the hostile environment people like you foster.

    For the record, in the debate about you being ousted from AHS, I was on your side though I’m not sure I had any actual weight. I didn’t want you banned, I wanted AHS to make some statement about things like this and be a bit more transparent.

    Oh, and also apologize for calling us cunts. All of us. Don’t pretend you didn’t, there are lots of loose lips out there.

    • I explained why I considered closing comments. I accepted the criticism. Not much I can do about past ones.

      Disqus? What does the platform have to do with anything? I had Disqus and it was a mess. I use a plugin created by my own developers for high comment sites and uses the WP database so all your data remains intact. Other than spammers and trolls, I don’t moderate comments. I will ocassionally just delete a 2 or 3 word gratuitous BS comment. The only editing I have ever done besides fixing my own comment typos is to delete a link in someone’s comment, with a note to that effect. Otherwise, show me.

      FTA is not a “hate circus,” and you know it.

      I’m thinking this is not going to be a constructive exchange. So be it.

      • Go back and read the comments on that thread. Think about how you feel reading Paleo Drama. Those comments are much worse. It’s a hate circus.

        “Not much I can do about past ones.”

        Don’t argue with me about platforms. I know you can delete posts and comments. I’ve deleted plenty of posts that were inaccurate or outdated.

        And you JUST deleted one of my comments. Hahaha.

      • I didn’t delete a comment, Melissa. I deleted a LINK with absolutely no other content except a smiley. I have explained why (twice…once to Will, to you in the last comment and now a third time). I’m not going to moderate your actual comments here but you don’t get to promote your new endeavor that’s partially devoted to smearing me and in general, taking as much out of context as you posibly can.

        Let me guess, hell will freeze over before a single good thing, people helped, science got right or any of the other thousands of things I’ve done right get a single mention on your blog–many of which where you yourself participated in comments.

        Will you acknowledge my real contributions as I do you, or will it be the same old tired political campaign and party mode of operation where it’s only anything you can find to criticize and smear?

      • …oh, so you are claiming that a blog with over 3,000 posts and 50,000 comments is a “hate circus” because of a single post?

        Hell, I’d have spotted you a couple of dozen that might fit the category, though I think “derision and ridicule circus” is more apt. “Hate” is such a silly PC bullshit term and I’m surprised a person of your sane political persuasion would stoop to use it. It really is beneath your intellectual status.

      • …oh, again. I didn’t at first understand what you meant about platforms. Yes, I could go and delete whole posts/comments.

        I never do that. I’m willing to let things stand and take my lumps about it. I will consider, however, an addendum to the post directing people here, along with some explanation.

      • Maybe I’m forgetting, but…wasn’t Melissa the chick who posted vicious attack comments on FTA under a fake name, but forgot to get a different IP so she could get away with it? And wasn’t Melissa the chick pretending to be above the Kruse fray, but behind the scenes was sucking up to you, trying to get you to wreck him by proxy?

        That must have been a different Melissa McEwen. Because this one’s shit doesn’t stink.

      • Joe:

        The IP thing was exposed in the post Melissa is referencing in the above comments. It concerned Don Wiss (who was also at AHS12). It’s true, she admitted to it. Done deal.

        No, Melissa was not sucking up to me about Kruse. She was trying to convince me to see things from a different perspective. I didn’t ever see anything like using me to get to Kruse.

        She was also very helpful in shooting me some links that changed somewhat my perspective on Lustig. I still have on my list to do a post about that one of these days.

        I had assumed all was cool (see my last comment concerning all the comments and emails since all of that). Apparently not and apparently I’ve done something to wipe it all away I’m as yet not privy too.

      • Yeah, I was trolling. He should have deleted that comment. Or at least said “that’s unacceptable to do on my blog.”

        And he should delete your comment too. And all the hateful comments accusing me of sucking up to various older men.

      • Melissa, Why do you care so much? Why can’t you make your points about actually important and meaningful things and then move along?

        Why are people like this on the Internet?

      • It is not just on the internet. It is that the internet connects the gossip circles and removes the veil and it has a very very long memory.

      • Meaning people are in “real-life” as they are on the internet, even if it is covered in passive yellow-grey shades. I have been guilty.

      • Marnee, because the Internet is Anarchy and what happens in anarchy?

        Everything.

        So be it.

    • …Yea, just exactly what I said. That poster, Laura I think it was, posted nothing but 1-3 word insults. There are hundreds of insults and slams at me in the over 50k comments on this blog that stand. But they are more than 2-3 words and they attempt to make some point or argument. There is nothing wrong with deleting obvious troll comments and in no way is it comment moderation in the real world.

      Moreover, I warned her about it, told her exactly what I was going to do and she did the same thing once or twice after and as I said, the comments were summarily deleted.

      And just to give you something more to post about, I did not link your new blog, or Evelyn’s on purpose. Thus, I have deleted your comment link to it. I’m open to linking to it in the future. And whatever you make of that is fine by me.

      • So it’s only a troll if they insult you? Not if they insult others?

        So you aren’t going to apologize about the whole cunt/bitch thing?

        Your site makes 4chan seem tame.

      • Melissa long history, I delete both and I have a history of not letting commenters hit and run on other commenters.

        But you know what? It’s pretty clear to me you think you’re onto something and I thing we’re done here.

        K sweetheart? Kisses.

    • “Have some modicum of creating a civil non-anti-intellectual environment,” says the person running a tumblr called PaleoDrama. C’mon.

    • That’s what you think and you couldn’t be more wrong.

      • V

        You have never made any sense to me, here or elsewhere. Why don’t you just go elsewhere and complain with others about what an ass I am?

        Seriously. I hate you. You hate me, and here’s the punchline: I don’t and never will hate Melissa.

        How’s that for you?

      • Ah, so now we know v=ELMM, thanks to the obsession with the filthy lucre Richard makes when someone buys a cookbook from his Amazon link.

        Don’t spend it all in one place, Richard!

      • “v=ELMM”

        Not sure how that is derived from my comment. I fully understand what ELMM is about, and I’m cool. V is just barely this side of a troll. He/She never contributes anything and is only here because I’m unpredictable.

      • v:

        I’m pretty much ok with you. Don’t sweat it.

      • v

        It will be a cold day in hell before Melissa gets yet _another_ apology to deconstruct and say is not good enough. Hell, I can’t even remember for absolute certainty if “the 3 c’s” in my tweet by implication was Melissa I had in mind. I’ll spot her, just because I can’t for sure remember and it’s even money at least that she’s right about that. I am absolutely certain I meant Evelyn and Emily, but at the time, there were other women far more prominent in comments over Kruse.

        A post I’m drafting now will speak to all this.

        I have zero use for Melissa at this point. Though I always remain a sucker for redemption.

      • dear honored ‘v’:

        i am so sorry i said you don’t contribute anything. i APOLOGIZE right now. please imagine me on bended kneeS with my hat in hand staring at the ground. i pomise nevah nevah do it again. sowwy.

        richard

        :)

      • …And if I miss any, I’ll be apologizing for that, too.

  5. So, I’m a relative newcomer (and still only sometime reader of) to this blog. I’ve appreciated the humor and the information. However, coming back to it after a little time away, I feel as though I’ve stumbled into the quintessential ‘inside baseball’ situation. I’ve tried to track back on some of the discussions, names, etc. (in your entries, and in their respective comments), just to figure out what the hell all of you are talking about. However, I’m lost. Presumably, since I don’t already know, I probably shouldn’t ask – but, I take it you’ve offended someone, somehow. As best I can tell, the players are: a volunteer at the AHS12, and, some folks named Evelyn, Stefani, and Melissa. All but the last name I think I’ve figured out. Thus, who is “Melissa” and what does she have to say, and where does she say it? Also, a fellow named Kruse pops up occasionally (I’ve read some of his material – pretty funny stuff). If you’re feeling generous, a brief guide for the perplexed (and uninitiated) would be most welcome.

    • Will, it really would take too much to do that and this was primarily for those in on the deal.

      And I didn’t link any of the mentioned blogs, I’m not going to and am not going to have them stand in comments. I’m am open to Melissa’s new blog being something constructive overall (there are things I consider constructive already). When I am convinced that’s what it is on balance I will have no problem linking it.

      Just the way it is.

      • Haha you deleted my link to it.

        Posting links to sites critical of you = unacceptable
        Posting hateful abusive comments = AOK

      • I have explained three times why I am not prepared to link to your endeavor, and it’s not just about me. Let me try a 4th, in hopes of getting you to deal on some level of honesty about all of this. Your site is not “critical.” it’s a mark 1, mod a, by the book smear job because it’s ONLY critical, and it’s ONLY critical about specific things you cherry pick for maximum smear effect. It’s dishonest in a wide context, just as I would be if over my dispute with you, I were to focus only on that and not acknowledge your values.

        I have absolutely no integral, moral, or otherwise any obligation to allow that to be promoted here. And while some of your criticisms of me and Paleo/AHS bear consideration, as I have done, it still has an aura of being largely destructive, not constructive and I simply am not going to support it or promote it here with links until I see a balance with constructive. I saw you posted something about a step in the right direction. So there’s a step in the right direction I’m acknowledging.

      • The first part applies to all blogs, even Sisson. The second part is unique to me. Thanks for pointing that out.

      • AndrewS says:

        Being an ass is of great value. Bullshit needs to be called out, and as much value as I’ve gotten from the Dr(s?) Jaminet one is unlikely to see the word “bullshit” ever appear on that blog. A great many to whom Richard has been an ass deserve it. This strikes me as a just blog.

        Being all pretty and friendly and goody-goody dodges the fact that there are enemies to freedom in the world. Turning the other cheek does not win wars.

      • Yep, Andrew. If there are other paleo blogs that unabashedly call out BS even at the risk of being wrong and have any kind of an audience at all, I’m not aware of them.

        At base, this blog pisses so many people off NOT because of what I write here, but because I can say what virtually ever mutherfucker out there is really thinking, will not say, and I not only get away with it but the blog prospers.

        It’s a Howard Stern sort of deal and even to a lesser extent, Limbaugh (though he can go fuck himself most of the time).

        I can pull it off, they can’t. They hate it. Fuck ‘em.

    • I’m in the same boat Will. It took me 45 minutes to figure out what the fuck everybody was talking about. I wouldn’t have bothered, except I’m a little crazy.

      Evelyn is an anti-paleo blogger at carbsane. I get the feeling she’s kind of a nut-job, but I don’t really know anything about her.

      Stefani is Stefani Ruper. She blogs Paleo for Women. I don’t find it too surprising that Richard’s hyper-masculine blog is occasionally discordant with Stefani’s, but I don’t get the feeling there’s any hurt feelings between the two.

      Melissa is Melissa McEwen who blogs Hunt Gather Love. I just subscribed. She also started a sideline blog talking about paleosphere drama. If you click on her name, it will take you to the new drama blog. Melissa evidently helped to expose Jack Kruse as at least partially a fraud. When she did so, she was not completely aboveboard with it & she was attacked for her subterfuge by Kruse’s fan base. As it turned out she was more right than wrong, but she got her feelings hurt in the process.

      As far as I can tell, most of the drama is about Richard occasionally being a pompous jackass & using the word “cunt”. I’d say I’m definitely with the ladies on their distaste for Richard’s cunt-dropping, but I think they’re taking the rest of Richard’s BS too seriously.

      • Good for you for doing all the leg work yourself, Joshua. Sorry it had to be that way this time.

      • Joshua,

        Thanks, that’s all very helpful – now that I have my scorecard filled out, I’ll know better when to leave the game.

      • I had no idea what the samfuck was going on either unti Joshua broke it down…

        Seems people want there to be “drama” more than there actually is drama.

      • Last paragraph crack me up :D

    • “I’ve tried to track back on some of the discussions, names, etc. (in your entries, and in their respective comments), just to figure out what the hell all of you are talking about. ”

      Will, if I may suggest, as a long-time reader of Richard’s blog: do what I do and don’t bother! If the ‘discussion’ is about paleo, exercise, cold thermogenesis, or food porn — yes, you will want to see the older blog posts (or external information), and Richard usually provides links. If it’s this barking and snapping and biting … don’t bother. Yes, sometimes Richard can be…. caustic. (In my ‘handout-biz-cards’ for primal / paleo, I include a warning with his URL that he swears, a lot. Some of the folks I give the cards to (okay, sometimes PUSH them on…. {wink}) may choose to avoid his blog.) (And no, I don’t respect his over-the-top swearing and calling people — of any sex — cunts. But that’s HIS call, it’s HIS voice: It’s not offensive enough for me to NOT read here!) I don’t CARE what others complain about — because I have found Richard to be a generally excellent source of info — so I don’t bother to go-see what this-one or -that-one is complaining about.

      Melissa seems to have some good information about some stuff (or so I guess, I haven’t been to look – and probably won’t), but she also seems to get wound up (or so it seems what the bits-and-pieces I hear in the paleosphere (and yes, I DO like that word). Wander around the paleosphere, read everybody at least a bit, and you’ll find folks whose style and information suits; then you can skip the rest. But do it on the basis of good paleo / primal information, not who is whining or barking about who is insulting whom! You won’t miss anything!

      • A perfect example of adult, non-dominating, maturity.

        Thanks Elenor.

      • How commendably sane of you Elenor. Color me jealous of your reasonability.

      • Thanks Elenor, your take on this, and your approach, seems both thoughtful and useful (to me at least).

      • Elenor, I like how you phrased this. I think I pretty much feel the same way. Richard can be a horribly abrasive fellow and his lack of decorum is tough to take at times. But I keep on reading here because he really does seem to have some good things to say, and also because he is quite thoughtful and logical when he isn’t expending all his energy on savagery. Does that make me sound like I have a stick up my ass? Maybe. Every time I read this blog, I always come away thinking that Richard is probably way more fun in person than on paper.

      • Rachel, I love to be as magnanimous in person as I can be. But I find myself so often enbarassed because so many know a lot about me and I know nothing about them and I’m at a loss to engrave in conversation tit for tat so I’m into a situation where the conversation is all about me and unless I’m drunk, that goes against my sense of civil odiscourse,

        Nonetheless, I always appreciate everyone who reaches out to me in person.

      • Elanor, thank you for saying so eloquently what I was thinking.

  6. Too bad there is so much bad blood out there. I suppose it’s no different than anything else. Something new generates a lot of excitement, cheerleading, etc… then, egos get in the way, and things start to deteriorate. Sort of makes it harder to attract new people… as we all know, there are millions of people who need help. Richard, not to sound like a kiss-ass, but you have one of the better health sites going. I hate that you have to post stuff like this from time to time, but I guess that’s the price you have to pay for having a popular site.

    All the inside stuff about the Boston meet-up sounded really ridiculous. I couldn’t believe the comments about the demographics! Hell, it’s like the difference between going to a Raider game and an Anaheim Ducks game. Different strokes for different folks. Do you think the Ducks’ ownership gives a rat’s ass about doing inner-city outreach to attract a more diverse fan base like the Raiders? Hell, if you’ve ever been to a Ducks game, you’d almost think you’re at an Amway convention, if you just looked at all the faces. Football is football & hockey is hockey. To use a horseshit cliche… it is what it is. Who cares about attracting a broad-based demographic of attendees to a health & nutrition symposium? The subject matter attracts what it attracts. What matters now is to get people to show up. People will read about it & try to make the next one. Hopefully it grows. Then again, it may not.

    As for the women’s issues, I’m all for it, & they need to be discussed. But don’t jam it down our throats or be politically correct about it… let it come naturally. The ones, like Stefani, who want to write about it will come to the surface. They should be encouraged. There are tons of women out there that are really struggling with health issues. From my personal observations, a good percentage of the issues are hormonally driven. Doctors specializing in this field, with a personal bias for paleo(ish) nutrition are few & far between. Would actually like to see a post about finding good doctors in all geographical areas that could fit that bill, especially here in SoCal.

    Anyway, Richard… keep up the good work. Don’t let the bastards get you down. People need to lighten up & put their egos, eccentricities & petty biases aside. As you always say… personal nutrition is one big N=1. Keep working it until you get it right. Be patient, don’t be dogmatic, be open to ideas & encourage others to succeed. I don’t know if you’ve specifically said all that, but that’s what I get out of your blog. Onward & upward. In the meantime, I still plan to sift through the crap, continue to follow folks on Twitter & read all the relevant info that I so crave.

    • “Who cares about attracting a broad-based demographic of attendees to a health & nutrition symposium?”

      I don’t think it’s irrational at all to desire it. My point in that previous post is that it’s nobody’s job to do that for you and no one’s fault that something isn’t up to your demographic preferences. The other element is this notion of “promoting and environment of X.” In other words, you largely young white thinnish folks are guilty by association. Because you have self selected, gone and attended a conference, the makeup of your presence and association “promotes an environment of exclusion,” even though no one is excluded except for the price of a ticket.

      This, of course, is equivalent to an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It’s a charge that can neither be proven true or false. The purpose is to push some PC agenda. It’s tantamount to Original Sin.

      But as I said, a broad-based demographic or “diversity” isn’t an irrational desire or value, per se. It’s in how you strive to achieve it. That’s the subject of my next post so I won’t spoil any more of it.

      Thanks for all your kind kiss-ass comments and recognition. :)

  7. OK, Melissa, here’s an honest query for you. In my post where I called you out after you called me out, here was your last comment:

    http://freetheanimal.com/2012/04/how-do-you-know-what-you-know.html#comment-125811

    ~~~

    “Melissa and I are exchanging emails. I never materially edit a post. That said, here’s the deal. Because it’s my post and if you think I’ve done Melissa wrong, feel free to go after me in comments. On the other hand, please, enough said on the negative side here, don’t pile on if you have an urge. Understand that I hate this. Hell, I’ve hugged Melissa and given her a ride in my car. I hate this. Let it rest. I said what I said, She said what she said.”

    Heheh, don’t worry. I’m no delicate flower. I know what people think of me. Heck, I’ve gotten DEATH THREATS from animal rights activists. This stuff said about me on the paleosphere is pretty tame in comparison. So even if I am a bitch, wrong, yadda yadda, at least people aren’t threatening to firebomb my house.

    If you are going to fight, do it with some pride at least. I may be tiny materially, but in words, I am a beast. One of the reasons is that I’ve been through a lot in my life, so there isn’t a lot that I’m afraid of.

    ~~~

    Since that time, you’ve commented here on various posts nine times, not counting your comments here, and they were all constructive or participating in various ways.

    In addition to that, since that comment on the post in question in April, we have had a total of 20 emails exchanged on the following topics:

    Kruse
    ItsTheWooo
    Lustig
    Masterjohn/Minger

    All of those were friendly, constructive exchanges. Now all this, out of the blue.

    So what happened? I’d sincerely like to know.

    • In addition to that, since that comment on the post in question in April, we have had a total of 20 emails exchanged on the following topics:

      Kruse
      ItsTheWooo
      Lustig
      Masterjohn/Minger

      What a surprise.

      Puppetmaster McEwen.

      • “Puppetmaster McEwen”

        I would not characterize it like that. I already explained about Kruse in the last comment and that was plain all over the place. There was no campaign on her part to get me to do anything.

        ITW, she emailed me just to suggest I not sweat what ITW had posted in some comments somewhere and why, which I won’t get into. Lustig, I emailed her to ask her if she had links to critiques of his fructose position and she obliged. Masterjohn/Minger, I emailed to ask if it was true about the breakup, etc. (I don’t get around much and was about the last to know). She told me all about the history of it and why, which I also won’t get into because it’s a private matter.

      • Wooo

        Stop trying to grow on me. Just stop it.

    • Paleo "Misogynist" says:

      She has been participating in the gossiping over at carb-insanes place, that’s what.

      A bunch of clucking hens, disapproving of “little Dick” Nikoley, that dastardly misogynist.

      Note – they can all make inference to your less than acceptably masculine girth…..

      ….but OH FUCKING HELL, RICHARD USED THE C-WORD!!!!!!!!!!!

      (THOUGHTCRIME!! THOUGHTCRIME!!! SOMEBODY NOTIFY BIG BROTHER!!!!)

      I used to have a lot of respect for Melissa.

      But just look at this fucking post and her response to it.

      You were trying to be magnanimous. You admitted your own faults in what may just be a simple misunderstanding.

      Instead of even trying to meet you halfway, she immediately tries to TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. What commenting system you’re supposed to use. Who you’re supposed to ban, censor and control, and what comments you should be allowing. That you have some kind of CONTROL of your free-for-all comment community. She’s basically taking your peace offering and DEMANDING you completely hand your balls over to her…otherwise this sincere post of yours is utterly meaningless in her judgement.

      Like most other young women in today’s society, it’s all about bowing down to the female imperative.

      You’re thoughts and speech are not SUITABLE, little dick! Toe the line or face the dreaded labeling of “MISOGYNIST”

      Ignore the cackling hens. No matter what you do, they will still cackle in discontent.

      • PM

        If you’re talking about Evelyn’s most recent, I may be wrong but I think the Melissa comments there are a different Melissa. Like the one that tells Stfani she’s a coward and “denounce him, then we’ll talk.”

      • Yes, it’s the same Melissa. You can see her icon at the Whole Health Source blog comments section. She has her Blogger profile set to private, but the photograph is the same.

      • Ok, weird, because the photo doesn’t look like her to me and the writing didn’t stand out as her style to me. Count me shocked that she would attempt to dominate Stefani with that “denounce him, then we’ll talk” bit. Thats over the top even by my low standards.

        Incidentally, I have never asked for or demanded an apology from a soul in my whole life and when I get one, my standard response is either “don’t worry about it” or “don’t apologize, just don’t do it again,” depending on context.

        Demanding apologies is just a manipulative way to try and dominate people.

      • When arguing with the fairer sex I have found that the “Turn around and walk away’ style of Kung Fu is the best of all possible styles

      • oooooh, that’s SO male! {sigh} And, yes, it drives females insane — not in a good way! (But, alas, even a reasonable” “I need to not discuss this further right now.” will rarely suffice to get the woman to let go and deal with whatever-it-is later…. Another of Mother Nature’s nastier jokes…

      • Women don’t drop grudges until both parties are dead. I can’t even comprehend how they can track all the resentments. Half their cranial volume must be devoted to it.

        No wonder men are better at spatial tasks.

      • Laf. I’m not taking this as cognitive truth, but there is something to it.

        Beatrice was a 5th grade teacher for over 20 years, now 6th grade, in her 30th year. She just started back and as per usual, “I love these kids.” She’s all smiles and jumps out of bed at 5 am every morning to get back to it.

        Anyway, for years she’s told me that the big difference between boys and girls at that level in disputes is that the boys just hit each other, but the girls never forget, hold grudges, maneuver, form cliques, manipulate, operate behind the scenes, etc.

        I’m sure it would be an interesting social / evolutionary study, the dynamics of why we deal with disputes in such profoundly different ways.

        Actually, I’ll bet Melissa could shoot about a half dozen references on the topic inside of 15 minutes if she was so inclined.

      • I could just imaging how annoying she’d be around the dinner table.

      • Two theories off the top of my head:

        – females typically have less physical power, so evolved to master sociopolitical dominance. That requires far more elaborate tracking of the players, their proclivities, vulnerabilities and histories. They also need to get better at using that data — manipulation, lying and detecting same. (That doesn’t mean they manipulate/lie more than any given man, but I’d suggest they would often be better at it.)

        – men can procreate without liability. For women, conception leads to 9 months of great vulnerability that continues for years at a lesser level. Arguably, they have a greater need to determine male character than the reverse, and a greater need to track the historical behavior/competence/reliablity/devotion/character of the males in the tribe.

      • Mark, that’s a bit personal and not the point of this. In fact, Melissa is very engaging and interesting in person with a tinge of quirkiness I personally find adorable.

      • Me:

        That’s a good shot.

      • If you knew me you’d know I don’t fuck around with alphas. Look at what happened with Art De Vany. I criticized him. He didn’t call me a bitch or a cunt. He just kept being fucking awesome and manly. Though it would have been even more awesome if he told me why he thought his arguments were correct considering my counterarguments.

      • You can correct me, but where I took the best I could from his book and wrote a thankful review of it, you slammed him and he was hurt by it in your comments.

        In spite of a bit of bitterness from him and condescension, I have always shown respect and if we have to measure dick, I’m pretty sure I’ll come out on top if you want to go there.

      • I feel sick knowing I stuck up for being not being banned from AHS and he pissed all over that AHS volunteer. You learn your lessons.

      • How long must we be treated to your feelings and how it’s somehow cognitive? Least you could do is put it in a narrative for consumption and meaning beyond your mundane life, as I’ve done for those lost and injured. This goes back to the guy before the guy before the guy, who dumped you. Wasn’t that Sweden? I’ve lost track of how many guys dumped you, actually.

        I suppose it’s misogynist to point it out, though.

    • This is extremely surprising to me since I hadn’t seen any backbiting or bickering since those Kruse posts, I thought it was all behind us. Guess not. I’d also like to ask, WTH happened?

      • It was surprising to me as well and how could I not think it was all behind us, given Melissa’s continued comments and our email exchanges. In fact, she has a screen clip on the blog of a tweet from me, the person I’m responding to having shot me a link to her blog for the first time. There was only a few posts, one of them about me. I had zero idea who was behind it, figuring it was just one of the people out there, probably a past troll and so I quickly replied that it would never get a mention or link from me.

        I didn’t realize it was Melissa until late Saturday night. That was a shocker to say the least. Completely out of the blue.

    • Oh you want to play this game. I have some lovely private emails from you.

      The cunt thing and the FBI thing was pretty fucking unacceptable.

      • Also that despicable post about that poor AHS volunteer.

      • I feel like you could’ve posted the same thing regarding that volunteer complaining about racism, sexism blah blah without any evidence and bleating about child-bearing, healthy, bourgeois WHITE people. Have drifted off to the far left or something?

  8. Wtf I clicked on Melissa’s name to see this blog that gets referred to and about the first thing I see is a gif of a woman slapping someone, how is that okay?

    • That’s simply Melissa’s way of helping to, in her own words, “have some modicum of creating a civil non-anti-intellectual environment where people talk instead of calling each other cunts/bitches/fuckoffs.”

      GIFs of women slapping men are simply about female empowerment (in a world of hostile patriarchy), there’s nothing non-civil nor anti-intellectual about them.

      • That blog is nastier and more anti-intellectual than FTA ever was. The She-Woman Man-Hater’s Club.

        That shitty, angry distaff narcissism was already boring in 1970.

        “I can’t be bothered to launch a non-profit, stage an event & create a scientific journal, so I’ll attack the men who did. How DARE the people who did all the work invite [male who doesn’t feed my narcissism, or Nora Gedgaudas]!

        Whew, I’m exhausted! Now, where’s my grant? Where’s my following?”

      • It’s actually a GIF of a woman slapping her young son. Who, in context, seriously deserved a slapping.

      • Here’s an idea: No hitting

      • I see, well, in that case it’s totally appropriate for someone who enjoys lecturing others on civil discourse.

        You might want to have that autism looked into, dude.

      • What does my autism have to do with anything?

        All I did was clarify the GIF. In the same context, the mother deserved a beheading. It’s fiction from a fantasy series that features dragons. Of course it’s all horseshit. That’s the point.

      • Of course it’s all horseshit. That’s the point.

        Ah. I didn’t receive the brochure you must have prepared on the subject.

        Autism seems pretty on the nose. The context is a blog that’s trying to bitch-slap Richard, not some stupid dragon show.

      • Hey, now wait a second! I liked GoT (the TV show). Unfortunately, the books get progressively more disjointed to the point where RR Martin seems to be stuck in a morass that he can’t write himself out of. Hopefully the TV show will spur him to finally finish the series. I didn’t even bother reading the last book, I’ve lost track of all the plotlines.

      • All I did was clarify the GIF.

        No harm, no foul Joshua, but it sort of missed the point.

        The actor who plays Joffrey is 20, which I guess is supposed to be 13 or something in Hollywood years.

      • Ah. I didn’t receive the brochure you must have prepared on the subject.
        They were sitting right there on the table. It’s not my fault you didn’t grab one.

        Autism seems pretty on the nose.
        and your point is?

        trying to bitch-slap Richard
        I think you give Melissa’s gossip blog too much credit. It’s just a weaksauce imitation of National Enquirer for the Paleo community.

        I can’t figure out why anybody is offended on Richard’s behalf due to this silly GIF. It’s just some colorful imagery similar to what Richard himself uses verbally. e.g. “I want to slap parents silly” http://freetheanimal.com/2008/12/stop-making-your-kids-fat.html

      • I’m not offended by it; I just think Melissa’s all about double standards.

        And sorry for being a dick to you in my earlier comment.

      • Who’s offended? I’m willing to tell people to go fuck themselves when I feel like it, and Richard has told me to go fuck myself on at least one occasion.

        But neither I nor Richard, nor most of the people around here, start demanding apologies for using bad words nor demand that someone switch their blog to Disqus so as to better control their unruly commentors who say hurtful things (wah!)–and then add a GIF of a woman slapping a guy as part of their awesome takedown about lack of civility.

      • …RR Martin seems to be stuck in a morass…

        I’m with you there VAGUE SPOILER! When you kill a character and then bring that character back to life later, you’ve lost all credibility with me. That’s soap opera bullshit. END VAGUE SPOILER!

        …a GIF of a woman slapping a guy as part of their awesome takedown about lack of civility…

        y’all’s comments make more sense to me in the hypocrisy context. I’m relatively new to this level of the paleo discourse, and I just find Melissa’s behavior at this point to be laughable. I have a hard time taking it seriously enough to get to the point where I can consider it hypocritical. I keep thinking she’s going to announce somebody’s been spoofing her for the last few days or something.

        After that, it seemed like people were jumping my shit for no apparent reason, so I was trying to play along.

      • Well, welcome Joshua, sit down and take a load off, let your hair down, order a drink. This is like a paleo pub. Sometimes bad words get thrown around and feelings get hurt. Sometimes things go a little too far, or perhaps a lot too far, I dunno. It’s free discourse, and despite claims by certain princesses otherwise, not anti-intellectual. At least not in my opinion, but perhaps my intellect is too puny and coarse to appreciate such subtle distinctions.

        As far as G RR Martin goes, if he ever finishes the damn thing I suppose I’ll go back and re-read the whole thing from the beginning (assuming I’m still cognizant).

      • “I can’t figure out why anybody is offended on Richard’s behalf due to this silly GIF.”

        Fucking indeed. The very last thing I want is to be seen as some victim with feelings making me “uncomfortable” and “hurt.” This is about one single thing: justice. I do a fucking lot of good work here and I have plenty of “you saved my life” emails to prove it, many already published so it’s no secret, just ignored as though it counts for fuck all (because feelings trump real lives). It’s also about someone, after a major dispute, leading me to believe through comments on my blog and friendly, private and even very personal emails that it was all behind us, turning the tables on a dime, without even any notice and leaving me to put the pieces together as to who was behind it.

      • ….I forgot to add. The gif only serves to undercut Melissa’s meta message in in that sense, the criticism is warranted.

        Sean saw that right off the bat, as he would.

      • “This is like a paleo pub”

        Kurt Harris.

        Thanks for the reminder, from someone who loves pubs more than the fantasy of heaven no matter how hyped. As someone inadvertently already pointed out, it is unique to the Paleosphere. I am the only one. That in itself means something to me, even though it’s so easy a target.

        But do notice. If you pay careful attention, I have drawn you all in, unwittingly of course–or it wouldn’t be pub-worthy–to be part of the abusiveness, the hurting of feelings and the general repression. That means you’re all part of the problem.

        You’re welcome.

  9. Robert Ve says:

    “Comments. When I began drafting this I figured I might close comments this time.”

    It’s probably best to never go down that road. The comments are one of the best things about this blog. Closing them will bring the value of this blog down and for what, so sensitive people don’t get hurt?

    If I didn’t know better I would almost think you are going respectable.

    • Robert, that would have been just for this post. Comments generally are pretty civil but for a post like this, I didn’t want another free for all thing directed at personalities rather than times, places, events, etc.

  10. So John Gray isn’t part of the paleo world, but his book “Venus on Fire Mars on Ice” might be a helpful read. It discusses the hormonal differences between men and women and how each sex gets out of balance — women becoming more masculine and men more feminine which is terribly unhealthy for both. Here’s a link to a blog post with a video of Gray talking about the book. The talk is entertaining. http://criticalmas.com/2012/07/hacking-hormones-in-a-relationship/

    Maybe some of that is going on here.

  11. So tired of the people that want to dote on the problems instead of coming up with solutions. Critiques I don’t mind but the continuous slamming of a situation that is in the past is ridiculous. Who the hell has the time for rehashing bullshit or rewriting the same tired rhetoric. I love your blog Richard but fuck em if they can’t fish.

  12. For those interested in male-female diffs: All of the following resources are MILES better (and more scientifically based!) than John Gray. No offense, Angie — Gray is a reasonably decent popularizer of *some* of the material — but his “fixes” are less-than-optimal. (I mean, really!? Telling men to act like their mate’s girlfriend?! That may help HER feel better, but it’s, fer shure, gonna wreck him!)

    Try any of these: Deborah Tannen (“You Just Don’t Understand: Men and Women in Conversation” and “That’s Not What I Meant!: How Conversational Style Makes or Breaks Relationships”) , Suzette Hadyn Elgin (various “Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense” books), Dr. Pat Allen (“Getting to ‘I Do'”), lots of stuff by Alison Armstrong (www.understandmen.com), Danielle Crittenden (“What Our Mothers Didn’t Tell Us”), Terry Real (“The New Rules of Marriage” and “I Don’t Want to Talk About It” and “How Can I Get Through to You?”), Steven E. Rhoads (“Taking Sex Differences Seriously”).

    (I run a dating-mating-marrying advice group. We’re being badly misled by the current “powers-that-be” who would have us all interchangeable cogs in an “industrial machine”!)

    • Elenor, if you were a guy, you would get dragged over the coals as a pathetic “pick up artist” for saying ‘We’re being badly misled by the current “powers-that-be” who would have us all interchangeable cogs in an “industrial machine”!’

      • Wooo

        2 things.

        1 my last post about Geg Swann and Man Alive! on my blog was chapter 10 and ironically, it’s a scathing critique of PUA.

        2 that critique featured on my blog, in part, got him a gig at the 21 convention where we both presented, amongst a bunch of PUAs. They loved him. He might have a bit of a different _ontological_ impression now.

        Greg and I are going to dive into it all next Sunday, maybe even with video.

      • Hi, Woo, I like you but you’re way wrong here. There were certainly some cretins in the movement (particularly about 10-15 years ago), but Elenor’s statement above:

        “I mean, really!? Telling men to act like their mate’s girlfriend?! That may help HER feel better, but it’s, fer shure, gonna wreck him!”

        …could be said by ANY guy in the male growth field today.

        (By the way, I was using the term “pick up artist” in a tongue in cheek manner. Elenor could be said to run a “pick up artist” group herself, but she calls it a “dating-mating-marrying advice group”.

        Hers is a much more politcally-correct manner of expressing the identical concept.

      • BTW, just so you know, the public perception of so-called “pick up artists” is sharky guys looking for nothing but one night stands. But the clientele of the companies is largely composed of nice but shy IT types who make 6 figures and want to have families, but have zero idea even how to get a girlfriend. Their dads don’t know, so can’t help them.

        And all mainstream culture has to say on the topic is “buy our product and give it to her; that creates true love.”

        They try that for a decade, then realize it’s complete bullshit.

        So they find their way to Elenor or others.

      • “Elenor could be said to run a “pick up artist” group herself, but she calls it a “dating-mating-marrying advice group”.”

        Ha, that’s indeed part of it. Anthony Johnson’s 21C is primarily for introverted guys being taught by other ntroverted guys who learned how to get out of their own way and realize that lots of very desirable women really do, in certain circumstances, desire to be approached and engaged. It is not at all–at least in his conferences–about trying to manipulate someone who has no interest in you. It’s about self confidence, at base, and putting itto action.

        Alright, I’ve already given away too much. Stay tuned for Sunday. Greg Swann day.

      • Me

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I have by far the smartest collective of commenters in the whole Palosphere. It would be so easy to argue the point, too. My comment database is well intact, since I don’t use fucking Disqus that steals my data and won’t give it back.

      • It’s about self confidence, at base, and putting itto action.

        Yep. And it’s about learning how not to be so careful and boring on first dates that the girl would rather kill herself than sit through a second one.

      • Joe

        If I only had about 10-20 percent of the ontological (evolutionary based, by experience) nuggets I got from some of these guys who, while introverted, forced mthemselves into the fray and not only learned, but learned a lot.

        In short order, it was obvious to me where and how badly I fucked up along the way, just trying my best to be a “nice guy.” Women do reward niceness and I don’t want to imply otherwise. But it’s not the primal basis of initial attraction and engagement, however. In that I am convinced and I invite all female perspective.

      • Not a female perspective, but I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s not NICE guys who finish last, it’s BORING guys who finish last. Too many people confuse boring bootlicking sycophantic behavior for nice.

        Then again, that conclusion isn’t exactly helping me get laid, so I may be off-base.

      • My pet theory on women and attraction is that women often don’t want to admit to themselves that they are sexually attracted to someone, so whenever a woman responds to me with unwarranted hostility I figure she’s digging my action.

        Jim Croce nailed it

        “She’s living in L.A.
        With my best old ex-friend Ray
        A guy she said she knew well
        And sometimes hated”

      • The PUA guys have many interesting takes on all of that. First, you must identify who might want to have you approach them—this a “mothertongue” or “body language” deal al-la Greg Swann and my series about his book. This is the animal part.

        It’s all fathertongue (language) from there out. And good luck. Hey, if people didn’t want to fuck and be fucked, we’d all be fucked.

      • >> “Women do reward niceness and I don’t want to imply otherwise. But it’s not the primal basis of initial attraction and engagement, however. In that I am convinced and I invite all female perspective.”

        Female perspective, chiming in: Agreed! This, very much this.

        And very often, women reward niceness begrudgingly or intellectually, rather than out of an instinctive attraction response. (Oh, he did X for me, how sweet, I really should Y…) But that’s not coming from a gut-primal place. Sometimes moving to reward niceness leads her to discover something that _does_ spark real attraction for her.

        People may hate on “icky PUA” sites, but the concept of Game/focused male charisma is immutable and its effects are undeniable when put into practice in a (heterosexual) relationship. Heartiste’s ‘commandments’ are pretty bulletproof: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

        Athol Kay’s MMSL is also a great, deep exploration of attraction through the course of a LTR or marriage: http://marriedmansexlife.com/take-the-red-pill/

      • First, you must identify who might want to have you approach them

        No, that’s fourth. First, you have to come to believe that some actually want to be approached. (Harder than it seems, with all the “men are useless to women, except when they’re actively evil” shit US society swims in.)

        Second, with that knowledge in mind, one needs to to actually look.

        Third, one has to reconnect with one’s body (the ‘animal part’ you’re referring to) so that one can feel when a woman’s interested. (You might ‘see’ the sign, but it can’t be processed intellectually; you can only ‘feel’ it in your gut.)

        Only then can you identify specific women who might be receptive.

        Steps 1-3 can take years for anyone, but the learning period is typically longer for IT types.

      • Rob, wow… so “no” really does mean “yes”? Gee, thanks for that bit of profound insight and ‘authorization.’

        What a fucking cluck.

        As I indicated above, I’m a relative newcomer here, but I’ve been doing my reading (and trying to take more thoughtful comments under advisement; e.g., Elenor). But, the incredibly low level of discussion here, the apparent sense (implicit and explicit) conveyed by too many of the comments that many of you have something important to say – some insight into the human condition – and then what follows is complete shit, not worthy of a 7th grade boys’ locker room. Rob, sadly, you seem an exemplary voice in this regard.

        I’m very happy I haven’t wasted too much time with all of this. If you’re at all representative of ‘Paleo’ thinking, you’ve saved me some important time and effort. Wow….

      • If ‘rob’ is a male, he’s kidding.

        But I think ‘rob’ is more likely to be female sockpuppeting as a male to make FTA look bad.

      • As I always say. I have the smartest most astute and most informed commenters about what really matters in the paleo blogosphere.

        But ingnore all that. You have a misogynist hater on the loose and you’re just mere pawns in his supremacy game.

        Thanks, Zell. It’s difficult to describe how superior a woman is who doesn’t feel the least bit threatened by PUA, and in fact, welcomes the challenge of males who have escaped the pussification your lesser counterparts who would shame and dominate them onto submission for a very short term gain for their long term detriment.

        High salute.

      • Me

        First, fourth…like there’s a difference. :)

        Thanks.

      • Will

        Self flattery, above all, is not tolerated here at FTA. Self deprication is cool, so long as it’s funny.

        Rob didn’t even remotely imply that no means yes. But if you’re looking for an excuse, go ahead and take it and who could possibly give a no, no, no, yes, yes, yes fuck?

        Do what you want, because that’s what we do around here. No faint of heart. But don’t hurt anyone in the process, or you’ll have hundreds shitting on you. We work out our own ethics.

        I can understand if you wish to remain in the sphere on comfort where everything is beak fed to you.

      • Joe

        You’re acting like the overly sensitive and literal this post is about.

        Not going to tell you what you should do. But consider what it looks like from this end. That Rob’s post already got two 13-yr-old girl–and let’s face it: say what what I think women will high5 me for–posts on indignation is just another indication of how pussified American males are becoming.

        I celebrate the American male sense of gentlemanliness. I just went out of my way for a dimminutive, young Muslim woman sitting next to me on the flight down to Austin. It pains me to think that men are there only to dominate them and push them around. She was so grateful for every gesture.

        I hope she doesn’t hate all men, anymore, given that she probably has good reason to.

      • Hi Will, I’ll skip calling you names.

        Re “no” means “yes,” what you don’t understand is I don’t really give a rat’s ass whether a woman is attracted to me or not. By accident of birth I happen to be good-looking, so women have ALWAYS been attracted to me.

        What I am interested in is why a person is responding negatively to me for no good reason. I find it interesting because people are predisposed to respond positively to me; they can’t help it, they are programmed that way.

        Sometimes a man I don’t know from Adam will respond negatively to me. I figure that guy feels threatened because he is attracted to me.

        Same thing will sometimes happen with a woman, and the reason is the same, she feels bad because she is attracted to me.

        It has NOTHING to do with me wanting to fuck either the man or a woman. If a freaking DOG responds negatively to me my natural inclination is to try to figure out why; it doesn’t mean that I want to fuck the dog.

      • Rob, I feel threatened AND attracted to you because of this very well-written comment.

      • @Zell, bulletproof? Maybe this is geared to a younger set, but I don’t get it. Esp. “Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence”. (yes, true… but then…) “They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out.” Huh? Personally, the men I respect have their own purpose, and are cool with the fact that I have my own purpose, and we both support each other. No subordination required, neither one the center of the other’s existence. But then I’ve been with my busband for 16 years and we worked all this shit out long ago.

        All this ‘don’t let her make the rules’ stuff… I just don’t get it. I do get helping men to be less submissive or whatever but I think it swings a little too far in the other direction sometimes, and that’s not helpful to men or to women.

    • No offense taken. I had not given him much thought or credit before either. But I do think this book is decent. Didn’t read his earlier stuff, but he says the opposite in this book, that a man should NEVER be his wife’s girlfriend. He says this decreases a man’s testosterone (not a good thing) and that women should find women to be their girlfriends.

  13. Wow! I have been reading this blog (and many others in the “paleosphere”) for several weeks now but have never commented before. I just wanted to say that I think all this drama is totally counterproductive to what this movement is about. All the time bickering back and forth and name calling and whatever else could be spent helping people with nutritional related illnesses. Negative comments and criticisms rarely benefit anyone.

    Melissa, I do subscribe to your blog and find it very insightful and normally a good read but this whole offshoot into the “drama” of the paleo world is ridiculous. Who will this benefit? It’s stuff like this that gives paleo a bad name. As a newcomer if I came across that blog, or this post.. I would be turned off immediately.

    Richard, just judging by the NAME alone of this new blog and it’s content I think making amends with Melissa is beyond hope. Obviously, a nice civil and mutual agreement to end this feud would not be very interesting and serve as no fuel for a blog about drama. Forget it — not worth your time. Anyway, I look forward to the regularly scheduled programming (from everyone).

    • Matt

      Point taken. I suppose this sort of thing is inevitable in any group. Hell, drama pops in in my family from time to time and we typically take the time out to deal with it and move on. I’ve known Melissa for a long time, probably going back to 2008 or 2009. I’ve met her in person, laughed with her, was privileged to give her and Chis Masterjohn a lift to the presenters party and back at AHS11. This is, in a weird way, like one of those family drama deals for me.

      I do still hold out hope for reconciliation, at least for now. And if that doesn’t happen it will be a source of sorrow for me.

  14. Melissa is a-ok by me. Does she bring something else into this fray beyond the direct conflict with Richard? I think so, but what the holy hell do I know? She’s shaking it up in her own way, just as others have done. Everyone is giving input and reacting to and among each other, and at the end of the day we’ll see what was accomplished.

    I personally don’t like some of the things that got posted here and at other places, but it’s not usually my way to care too terribly much. So while I think that some lines (imaginary lines) have been crossed and I’m glad to see some blowback on it, I’m optimistic that the charlatans will continue to be rooted out and the otherwise meaningful discussion will carry on. This is part of that process, in my opinion.

    Then again, I’m a fucking idiot/nobody, so I’ve got that going for me.

    • VW

      You are essentially restating my reference to dialectic in a different way, and that’s in no way idiotic. It’s a very astute observation that people, when confronted, and on both sides of any dispute often make subtile changes over time that add up to neither being exactly like they were before.

      We’re social beings and we all influence each other in ways we’re not even conscious of.

      So count yourself fuckimg smart in my book.

  15. My gawd, do people even need to watch the Housebishes of with all the drama this blog produces? LMAO When this blog is good, its damn good! IMO much good has come from the constructive posts of which there are many. Unfortunately to much time is spent rolling around in the mud.

    • Should read Housebishes of *enter your city of choice here*…

    • Steve, I take your criticism under advisement and in stride. It is important to be admonished to go to ground. So I hope you ultimately cut me the slack this time around.

  16. Is it just me, because I thought there were references to the tag line of Melissa’s project referenced here already and this post is not yet 18 hours old. The tag line now reads:

    “Dispatches from the paleo cesspool. Why? Too much silence for too long, it’s catharsis, and for every post I put up, I’m more and more motivated to do something else besides sit in the cesspool.”

    The cesspool? Catharsis?

    Oh, my. I could go on and on. Instead, I’ll just wish Melissa well with her chosen therapy for her recovery over having been soiled by the cesspool all these years.

    • …I might also add. What is it with this I’ve been silent, or silenced? What, did did someone cover her mouth and and tie her fingers together with duct tape and I just didn’t notice?

      • Speculating….

        She has tied this personal thing into some perceived larger cause and she feels bad that she didn’t attack earlier.

        She’s smart and has a lot to add, but I think that this just might be part of an over-correction. I suspect that you can do no right by her for a while, Richard, no matter what you say or do.

      • “I suspect that you can do no right by her for a while, Richard, no matter what you say or do.”

        Oh yes. I am well familiar.

      • Apologize for calling me a cunt and spreading around the idea that I was ShitKruseSays and the FBI was coming for me. How about that?

      • What did you name your 3 dogs and 2 cats anyways?

      • Okay Richard, we hadn’t heard about the rumor spreading. Did you spread the rumor? What about the FBI thing? Explanations for clarifications!

      • Dude, she has a feeling.

        Feelings > Reality.

        You would know that if you weren’t such a suppressive asshole.

        /kidding

      • “Help, help, I’m being repressed!”

        Richard, you bastard, stop ‘angin’ on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.

      • Is there anything that comes close to Monty Python in terms of poking fun at idiot, regurgitating, learned and conditioned dogma? I doubt it.

      • The clever thing about that is you’re meant to laugh at both sides of the dispute.

  17. “Women often told me they felt uncomfortable.”

    Guess where that comes from. It was a response to a woman wondering when the first Paleo rape was going to happen.

    I don’t know about any of you guys, but I can’t recall once feeling uncomfortable in my whole life, and it’s a good thing too, because there would be hell to pay if I ever had.

    • The first paleo rape took place back in the paleolithic period.

      Don’t know when the first paleo “othering” occured, nor the first paleo “male gaze”, but I’m sure they were both tragic milestones.

    • Define uncomfortable. As an omega male, I’ve had some level of discomfort over my entire life. Or were you talking about the time my bicycle was stolen on the south side & then I happened to come across the 3 guys whodunnit a couple hours later. That was pretty uncomfortable. I did get my bike back though.

      • You’re a male, Joshua. Your discomfort is ontological. What’s really important, however, is teleological based uncomfort, i.e., what others _should_ be doing and don’t, and it makes you feel X (uncomfort being just one of a continuously moving, never resolved target).

        ….Just another anti-intellectual screed at FTA.

    • Wooo

      That’s not the issue. Nobody should ever make light of rape and yes, it is of a particular category; for women in general society, young men and boys too, and _mainly_ male prisoners. It’s the ultimate domination act, in some ways more pronounced even than murder.

      The problem is when “feeling uncomfortable” is a very easy subjectivism used to get an edge on what’s subjunctive.

    • One other thing, Wooo.

      I’ve lived abroad and travelled abroad to many countries. Have been in many situations where I began to “feel uncomfortable.” Hey, guess what. Those feeling may or may not be valid, but are there for a reason.

      Know what I did? Heel Dust. That’s what Dr. Doug McGuff calls it, in his list of a dozen things to avoid so that you don’t end up on his emergency room table. There is no social fix or substitute for this, ever. If you feel that uncomfortable, really—and aren’t just using it as a convenient wedge when all you have is a hammer and everything begins looking like a nail—GTFO. Quick. You don’t wax on about how people shouldn’t be making you feel uncomfortable.

      • “by the time you feel uncomfortable,”

        Highly individual.

        For the rest of it, I grok, Wooo.

        You impress with with your ability to see something like infanticide in an evolutionary context. not something discussed in polite company if you wish to be invited back to polite company.

  18. Richard —

    You are handling this whole thing with mucho classiness. I admire your level-headedness.

    All of this, particularly Melissa’s behavior, is reminding me of the concept of female hypoagency as expressed through her chosen platform of feminism. (A good, if long, video about hypoagency is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE&feature=relmfu ) Long story short: right now she’s acting like an object with no agency of her own, and demanding “Let’s You and Him fight!”

    ‘You’, being you, the untamed guy she can’t control through demands or public shaming tactics — and “Him” being the male (or group) source of power she expects to maneuver into rescuing her from discomfort. In this case, it’s the organizers of AHS that she’s pressuring.

    It’s saddening to watch. I know you can take this in stride just fine, but the worst part of this is that her behavior _will_ impact the female experience of the paleosphere at large, and not in a positive way. Her framing of the argument means that women will feel the need to either identify with her or distance themselves from her.

    Forming opposing cliques to argue about things like ketosis dogma or carbs or safe starches is one thing–but this is ideology that aims itself directly at _female identity_. (“You’re either with us, or you HATE women and you HATE yourself!”) The cognitive disarray will be damaging, and if she continues the line of nebulous harassment and Paleo’s First Rape predictions… ugh. I just hope people can keep their wits together and their rational minds cool enough to weather the storm.

    The video’s worth watching all the way through, if you get a chance.

    • Melissa ain’t as powerful as all that. And it ain’t anything that Evelyn hasn’t been doing all along, and she hardly has the world by the tail.

      The squabbling over micro-turf is stupid, but not important. That’s why people fight so hard — because it doesn’t matter.

      “University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.” – Henry Kissinger

      • Thanks, Joe. That’s a good point for me to remember.

        I think I just needed to throw my hands in the air a little bit since I recently watched another loose-knit but interesting online community go tumbling off the rails of useful discourse last year, triggered by a very similar approach to Melissa’s. (The skeptical/non-religious/science-based medicine sphere, with the Skepchick/Elevator Guy debacle.)

        Stepping down off the ledge. Not all is lost yet! :)

  19. SteamboatOperator says:

    A woman reacting to a situation (is there even one to begin with?) in an incredibly irrational manner, appealing it seems wholly to emotion, refusing to let the situation (or lack there of) die and move on to more constructive matters, and generally up to her eyeballs in the gossip, all with a side dish of “I’m woman hear me roar” posturing…which is as see through glass. You don’t say.

  20. SteamboatOperator says:

    How are you liking the Thunderf00t/PZ Myers/FTB showdown?

  21. Alright Melissa, you earned yourself a link to your new project.

    http://paleodrama.tumblr.com/post/29991828814/shame-on-brent-and-aaron-for-not-bussing-in

    I’ll give commenters a bit of time to deconstruct motive, context and assholery before I do, given the clarifications on Evelyn’s blog I already mentioned in the post.

    Like I said, mark 1, mod a, by the book smear. Zero regard for honesty and context,

    • Oh Richard, can you for a minute consider how that might sound to someone who is not you? How hateful and awful that post was? How your shitshow comment cesspool dumped all its hateful spew onto that women, sending her threats and hateful comments. Like I once got too. Why would you be surprised, that’s the kind of horrible 4-chan ish atmosphere you encourage here with your no-moderation unless you feel its trolling. Hate isn’t trolling unless its directed towards you huh?

      If people think this is all about hurt feelings, I’d welcome them being told by a bunch of older people they respected that the FBI was coming to get them and “they’d pay.”

      • Melissa:

        You appear to me to be losing your once critical but understanding mind.

        For whatever reasons, you are becoming rigid and far less desirable. To me. I used to think of you far, far differently. You probably don’t care any more than I care of what you think of me. But you’re still out there.

        What are you vying for come eventual loving companion?

        BYW, I apologized for the accusations on twitter, the very next day, before it was _demanded_, which is the only way apology works ever for me. It wasn’t good enough. Whatever. Been there done that, sweetheart.

        Kisses.

      • Please spare us your fucking empathy. You LOVE it when Richard goes after people — and you make sure he has all the evidence he needs – as long as they’re male.

        You fucking hypocrite.

      • I think the rant saved your Epic Html fail. I believe this equals win. If I did my math correctly_And_I_Always_do.

      • Tell me the truth Wooo.

        You want to be the queen of rant. Don’t you?

        It’s OK. You can tell me. Here. My head is turned. Whisper.

        (that was good)

      • I fixed the tag. No sweat.

        But I do demand an apology. And after you’re done apologizing to me and I approve your apology, you can begin apologizing to the WordPress organization, its developers and assigns. Once that has all benn accepted and approved, I have my own developers in Slovenia who need some love. This comment platform is their baby.

        I know they’re just white Easten Europeans, but consider their years of oppression under a communist regime.

        Wooo, I’m begging and pleading with you to have a heart here.

      • Don’t fuck with your inner mojo, woo.

      • “But here’s a tip, in general: It’s just food. Not a renaissance fair.”

        “Anyway, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out this chick is a drama queen and a gossiper. She’s like, the artschool hippie vegan version of that archetypal catty bitch in the cheerleading squad. She’s too cool for you, and she thrives on drama + backstabbed knives.”

        Ex. A and Ex. B as to why I love Woo…

  22. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    I like Melissa and was initially very sympathetic to her cause. But it seems more and more that she has other, larger issues – and this whole thing just happened to come along. And Richard, who’s been surprisingly (well, maybe not that surprisingly) reasonable, seems to have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    • ELMM

      I’ve been around the block a few times and at this point, I really just have to let M do whatever she’s gomna do. Reconcilliation isn’t possible because it apparently requires me to submit to her deamnds and that will never, ever, happen (I am making no demands and neither am I pretending to be a victim). She wishes to dominate me. Magnominity and reasonableness in all of this is not enough.

      Been there, seen it a million times and it has yet to work with me a single time in my life. Never in my life have I bowed to a domineering demand for an apology (much less change how my blog runs and hell, what plugins I use), though I have preemtively offered apololgies a number of time, including the day after the accusatory Twwet. Wasn’t good enough.

      Well, you can guess what I say to all of that.

  23. OK…

    Just read Melissa’s last few posts. Wowzers. LOLsville. You have to wonder what she’s been reading, lately.

    I hate to resort to bromide, but it seems Melissa has but a hammer (and you know what that means). I think there’s really no point for me in going back anytime soon to see if anything constructive comes of it. Feel free to let me know if there’s anything other than everything and everyone being sexist, including the paleo movement, society in general, and the US postal service.

    I’m done here.

    …Stefani Ruper was _exactly_ right in how she predicted to me this would go, and she predicted it in no uncertain terms.

    • This is why I stop reading blogs for a few months, and then come back – something ridiculous always happens. And in this case what… it’s that you haven’t apologized properly for calling her (or whoever) a cunt? Really? So she clutches her pearls and starts a tumblr?

      I don’t get it. It’s fun as fuck to watch, though. I like and read both of your blogs, by the way… I actually came here after catching up on hers.

  24. LOL. Now Melissa’s calling what Jimmy Moore does a “webpire”. HAHAHAHAHAH. What a jealous little freak. Never mind that she hasn’t done 1/100th the work that Jimmy has, he must be shunned and banished because she said so. 

    And Richard, I don’t believe that she is actually offended by yours or by Jimmy’s blogs. And I don’t believe she has the empathy that she’s posing as having. She couldn’t stop crowing over Kruse’s demise, and she’s ready with a knife for “sister” Nora 24/7. At the risk of getting Freudian, I think it’s just a case of Alexa envy.

    Here’s how you get a “web pire” Melissa: do the fucking work. Either work incredibly hard and incredibly long, like Jimmy Moore. Or work incredibly hard and incredibly smart, like Denise Minger.  Jimmy’s route takes years you want a shortcut around, but worse is that Jimmy’s way requires a self-effacing ability to make others the star, week after week, month after month, year after year. And you have to make small talk with ordinary civilians simply because they paid the cruise fare. That would be hell for you because you don’t actually give a shit about anybody that doesn’t make you look cool by association. You can only fake it for a day or two before the façade cracks and the enraged, entitled little narcissist spills out. 

    So you hate Jimmy because he wanted it more, because he wants to serve, because he’s a God-fearing country boy who really does like to talk with people and because you think he’s a plebe. You are gross.

    As for the Minger route, I’m pretty sure you hate her most of all, but you’re checkmated here. You can’t beat her because she’s a true star. And you can’t even attack her because she actually is what you only pretend to be, and attacking would be being even more transparent than you are right now. So better find someone else to destroy. 

    Further, you pretend to hate Richard for being politically incorrect, but I think you really despise him for having a multiyear head start on you. You’ll never beat that and you know it.

    So good luck with building your “web pire” around your own hate circus. 

    You’re just Evelyn with a better A1C. 

  25. Angering a woman enough that she does an entire blog about you is pretty impressive, it belongs in the “Angering Women Hall Of Fame.”

  26. “This is like a paleo pub”

    Indeed. I even woke up this morning forgetting about last night’s blah blah. RSS reminded me with a headache.

    Free The Animal would also make for a great name of an old world pub. Ironically, it just might encourage this blog’s grouping. One could hope.

    Connected-The savage/barbarian words have been used much lately with the ongoings as of late. Most often linking to men. Always good to dig into all the millions of pieces instead of the crumbs.

    http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2011/03/10/the-return-of-the-barbarian/

    J.S. On savages
    http://www.gnolls.org/2115/the-civilized-savage-and-the-uncivilized-civilization/

  27. One has to discuss things and move on, otherwise there is an emotional problem at work here.

  28. LeonRover says:

    WTF, Richard ??

    Misogyny 102
    posted by Richard Nikoley at Free The Animal – 14 hours ago
    Just look at how these women instinctively protected their boyfriends from fatal harm and paid the ultimate price. Oops, again. I keep forgetting how misogyny has so overcome chivalry qua ethics, so shapin…

    • Shortly after posting that I decided to go a whole different direction with this so took it down shortly after. It was a story about the 3 guys who died in the Colorado shooting by shielding their girlfriends.

      The point of that series was going to be to showcase where women dig on men all the time and never get called for it, chivalrous acts by men, the male body count in battle, etc…y’know, all those things that signal how sexist and misogynist society is and how rough women has it with all the “silencing” and such.

  29. Pauline says:

    I don’t know what to say, i feel punchdrunk from it all. Some fights should go on in private. If you love/hate each other take it elsewhere. Its like an invitation for everyone to pitch in. I don’t know why Richard loves to win over Melissa and she loves to bait him. Where is this going to lead? Big yawn because there are those of us who are still struggling to make sense of our own lives and health. We don’t have the energy to read endless words about who said what and why they said it and when are they going to apologies. Melissa needs to find a life and one that is not on the internet dramatising drama, and Richard your energies need untangling from this this mess. Who gives a damn what anyone else thinks. Don’t fight it just let it go.

    • “If you love/hate each other take it elsewhere.”

      Let me get this straight. You’re telling me to take what I post on my own blog somewhere else whilst you stay here?

      Alright…. I get the sentiment. Melissa is not a troll. I loath the “let it slide mentality,” where no one is ever accountable to anything ever.

      You might have found yourself in the wrong place. Sorry about that, but it’s the way I roll. Every time. If you’re going to stick around and I sincerely hope you do, you might consider getting used to it. But it’s your choice. Not gonna tell you what you should do (hint).

      I just try to help when I can.

      • “Let me get this straight. You’re telling me to take what I post on my own blog somewhere else whilst you stay here?”

        If she ain’t, I am. Turn this site over to me immediately.

        You have 24 hours.

      • How about 26 1/2 hours? Counting from January 1, 2050? After that, it’s all yours.

        Happy to see to your demands, in part.

  30. Pauline says:

    I read Melissa’s blog and find value in it. Richard, I read your blog more regularly and find value there. You don’t need proof from anyone that your work stands firmly on its own merit.

    • Which Melissa blog. HGL is great. Always has been. Every post she does has merit. Her second blog is a mark 1, mod a and by the book smear job worthy of any political campaign manager where you cherry pick anything that makes me and others look bad, and you never utter a whisper that there’s anything other than bad.

      It’s profoundly dishonest.

      I need no proof at all. I could have easily gone ‘no comment’ on the thing, but this is not some troll. This is Melissa, with a Paleo rep and she presented at AHS11.

      Why am I doing this? Because Melissa has a clear aim to divorce or distance herself from Paleo and take as much down with her as she can and I not stand for it. Never.

  31. Pauline says:

    Well, I was waiting for a face slam! I was saying this thing with Melissa has popped up before and you deserve better. How else can I say it. It looks like you want something from her and she ain’t gonna give it. Just let it go. I don’t like the feeling of her using drama between men and women to gain popularity, I read it on other posts other than hers and I find it tedious.

    • I did want something. Reconciliation. Goose egg, in spite of every careful and reasonable effort I could muster. Given our past email exchanges after the fact of her complaint in all this, this could have been easily avoided had she simply emailed and asked if i really meant to call that AHS volunteer the laundry list of those _sacastic_ words I used (i.e., not directed at the individual).

      I don’t mind Melissa misunderstood, can happen to anyone. I mind a bit she didn’t ask me to clarify first. I mind a great deal that in spite of this knowledge, she not only ignores it, but persists on in her blog under the false premise, and she does so explicitly.

      This is tantamount not just to dishonesty, but….evil. So that’s what I’m dealing with now. Someone so corrupted by spite and the need of her own catharsis that she resorts to being evil.

      And it’s not even just against me.

  32. Pauline says:

    Us against them mentality, whatever version you want to pop up. We all have issues. But the internet is not going to sort it out. This thing with Melissa has always felt personal for you. I can only tell you what it feels like as an outsider.

  33. Pauline says:

    I haven’t read her other blogs nor will I. Most of the woman who rant, I can’t go much deeper into their blogs because their personal stuff gets in the way. Doesn’t matter what the nature of the chip is, it all comes out loud and clear whether they like it or not. I have a link to her Hunt, Gather, Love on my computer, along with Paleowomen, I find their blogs useful and insightful. But backstabbing stuff I don’t have the energy for, I can read novels for that.

  34. Pauline says:

    Richard, I said your work (ie internet blog) stands on its own merit, because of things that were being said negatively about what gets done here. You are a fighter, so am I – I just choose where and what I fight for. This is not the place where I would choose. I always said cudos to you for being creative and determined enough to put yourself out there. I don’t like feeling shot down. Hence I bow out gracefully.

    • Pauline:

      I have a new post in draft that seeks to be my last word on the issue. It’s full of links and references, for thos who were a little bit lost by this post, in my effort to both not promote what she was doing and also to keep it from blowing up into the “hate circus” she complains about.

      Now I don’t give a shit. As I said, I’m dealing with evil here, so everyone hate away if you like. what the hell. I’m going to now go an remove the bit about the comment restriction because everyone should get what they deserve and Melissa deserves no dispensation or protection any longer.

  35. This video can never be posted enough times: Frank Zappa on Crossfire, They are just words.

    If Melissa wants to devote a blog to shaming Richards for alleged misogyny and not nicey nicey language, whatever, it’s a free internet (for now at least). The problem with people like this, give them some political power and they are ready to take things further, to have people arrested for thinking bad thoughts, or saying “hurtful” things. The problem with Melissa and the politically correct PC warriors of her generation is that they really feel entitled to tell people what they can fucking say.

    If you don’t like someone’s blog, then don’t read it, or bitch about it on your own blog. But the temerity of demanding that a blogger that has apparently trampled upon your special snowflake sensibilities take down posts, add some new commenting structures to police their comments, and make apologies that will be summarily judged by the horribly offended party on a sliding scale by sincerity and grovellingness, well that’s frankly ridiculous.

    This sounds like a list of hostage demands, not free discourse on an open platform like the internet where everyone can say whatever the hell they want. Perhaps Melissa would also like a helicopter and a chartered plane to Cuba (fully stocked with militant feminist literature).

    It’s this sense of entitlement that I find really depressing. All fascists, from the Nazis to the PC warriors of today, have felt entitled to trammel the rights of others.

    Lastly, how sheltered of a life does one have to have had to think throw around stuff like “sitting in a cesspool” and “catharsis” over someone’s goddamned blog? Christ, my wife grew up in post-Dubček communist Czechoslovakia. And while I haven’t asked her, I’m pretty sure she’d laugh her ass off at the self important melodrama of people who felt “othered” at a paleo conference or were trapped in a cesspool of perceived misogyny by Richard and his “worse than 4chan” commentors. But then my wife has never had any interest in drinking the victimization kool-aid.

    • +1 Sean

      What I find most remarkable is that Melissa somehow thinks she can get away with this without a scintilla of moderation on her part, and even apparent doubling down (the last few posts).

      And her sudden use of loaded weasel words that are as unfalsifiable hypotheses, designed to immediately put people on the defensive—especially given her rather libertarian bent and her very good understanding of basic economics. You really can do an economic analysis of this: not good for her.

      There’s only one single reason I can usually get away with the shit I stir and fling around here. I pay attention to reaction and modify behavior accordingly. Uncompromising, except on the most basest of principles (rape, murder, kidnapping, etc., come to mind) really never works, IF your goal is to keep an audience and grow it.

      And part of the resentment is that I simply have the most eclectic group of smart, insightful, give a fuck commenters in the paleosphere and there’s simply envy over that. So she attacks the commenters, now. Sure, tons of very smart commenters all over. Try reading some of the long threads on other blogs, sometime. Pretty tough to get through, at least for me, often enough, and I’m not trying to take anything away. I just like lively banter.

      The commenters and the threads on this blog, however, are often very special in very unique ways. But nobody is willing to do what I’ve done to create that. They just want fucking interesting, lively, vibrant, brash commenters. Can’t get them doing what they do, so they attack mine.

      So thanks, all you fuckers. :)

      Oh, yea, here’s Melissa’s hostage demands.

      http://paleodrama.tumblr.com/post/30000084233/im-sorry-and-what-id-like-to-happen

      • Rick Lucas says:

        I clicked to that link and started paging through the entries there and for some reason this song started playing in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aS3WKckqKM

        It’s sad when someone has a meltdown like that in public. I dunno, maybe it’s just me… to many oligosaccharides or something. I hear that can make one cranky.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Exactly. That’s what it is – a meltdown. Melissa’s meltdown. And, while I suppose it’s sad, it’s also made Richard a sympathetic figure. That’s saying something.

      • ELMM

        I’m guessing it was you who wrote in that comment (or whatever Tumblr calls them) on PD that in part defended me and that M would have none of. Looked like your style.

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Yeah – I wrote ‘The People Know Their Real Enemies’. She’s intractable, though. I truly think she has issues that went looking for a cause.

      • Yea, she went all in on this deal. The change of tagline really brought it home for me.

        I don’t get the take down mentality vs I’m done, taking my ball and going home.

    • Sean, if I knew how to do one of those sickening-cutesy little l33t graphics with the hearts and swirls I’d do post one now. You know that I come over hear just as often to read your comments as I do Richard’s posts, right? You are just full of awesome.

  36. Pauline says:

    Richard, I am a long time reader and listener, I am into researching issues on health and wellbeing, I am here for the long haul. So I won’t be going anywhere soon. I don’t usually comment when there is fighting, I read it and move on. But this one somehow got me typing up a response. Men and women will always have issues its the nature of the beast. I am a freedom seeker too like every one else. Sometimes we get into the fight when its personal, sometimes its wise to leave alone. These instincts are part of our free the animal psychology and primal brain. I don’t like vendetta’s where health sites becomes platforms for slaying others. I am partial to justice. Fairness in love and play and fighting.

    • OK, Pauline. Thanks for elaborating but especially, for sticking it through for this round.

      My next post will shed more light on this but yes, it is time for me to pick another playground. I feel too othered in Melissa’s, not to mention silenced and oppressed.

  37. Danimal says:

    I’ve been reading this blog for years now. I think I stumbled over from MoveNat, as my training buddies and I were obsessed with natural fitness at the time. This blog’s is what got me into ancestral health. Probably saved my life, to be honest. I now am a patient of Dr. Davis from “Wheatbelly” fame, but would have probably not had the foresight to seek out a great cardiac physician without what I learned from the “Paleoshere.” But I digress.

    I certainly don’t agree with many of the things Richard posts, particularly those of a political nature. And that is precisely why I come here. As someone mentioned above, most other blogs are not at all like this one. Way too much glad handing, kudos, happy-go-lucky PC-bullshit. To me, it reeks of falsity; pretentious even.

    So thank you, Richard, for this blog and for being kind of an asshole. I’d much rather read and be offended by something honest and true than something possibly more politically and socially correct, especially when it is penned simply to inflate the author’s own ego.

    Cheers!

    • “So thank you, Richard, for this blog and for being kind of an asshole.”

      You are entirely welcome, sir.

      I’m gratified to know that I played a team role in getting your moving in a better direction. Thank you also for your insight and discernment as well. I guess you figure that neither you or anyone has anything to fear from reading what I write.

      Go figure. When is that idea going to end, anyway? It was supposed to be out with Gutenburg.

  38. ‘Paleo’ is just become like any tribe that get too big -is inevitable is gonna become with infighting, faults-finding, envy, power struggle, factioning.

    When tribe small, is communal awareness that it best for all to gets along to sustains itself, but as tribe get bigger, impossible to stay communal, especially with egos and monies and fames involve, is total nature that it turn into paleo wars! (Okay, “paleo skirmishes,” but that no sound as cool.)

  39. New post up, the final chapter:

    The Definitive Guide to Melissa McEwen’s “Paleo Drama”

    http://freetheanimal.com/2012/08/the-definitive-guide-to-melissa-mcewens-paleo-drama.html

  40. When I was engaged to my wife, I bragged about how reasonable she was. As feminine as they come, girl to the core, but she had access to this level of rational thought that made her pleasant beyond description.

    About a year into our marriage, she was getting upset over something and was beginning to spin herself up when she paused, asked me to hang on a minute (I realized later she was counting days and weeks) and then calmly said “Never mind. I’m just about to start my period. I think I’m just emotional.”

    No, I’m not kidding. And that was it, full stop, reset, back to life.

    And I’m going to go give her a big hug and tell her I love her, because for God’s sake the whack-jobs I’m observing on the female side lately give me even more reason to appreciate her. Thanks for the contrast, crazies, because you make truly awesome women seem even better.

    One other point. I open the door for my wife to get in the car, and upon arrival she sits in the car until I walk around and open it for her to get out. If we’re in public, and she’s ahead of me, she’ll stop at any closed door and wait for me to open it. I’ve had a feminist friend tell me that’s insulting because she can get the door herself. My wife’s response? “What an idiot. She doesn’t understand.”

    Oh, and that reminds me of one other thing: The first time in an email discussion group I was called a misogynist. I had to look it up. That made me laugh. I’ve been called everything you’ve been called, Richard. The people that called me that got left behind. I’ve heard they’re still in the same place in life they were back then.

  41. I really can’t stand that the word ‘misogynist’ gets thrown around so bloody easily. If it is misogynist to call someone (male or female) a cunt, is it misandrist to call someone (male or female) a dick? Can I call another woman a cunt without being a misogynist… or would that mean I had been brainwashed by the patriarchal society I live in to think that saying cunt is ok, when it’s not? Is asshole ok, because it is gender-neutral? Is it more politically correct to stick to non-genitalized insults, like fucktard and douche-canoe? Seriously, I need to know, I obviously missed a memo or something.

    • Tracy

      Melissa has no interest in such questions so far as I or anyone can tell. She only has a hammer and everything is seen in the nail light of her (hilariously under read feminism–she has never read Paglia or Dworkin….fucking LAF…but she’s a little girl, aferter all) ou courant ignorant stuff,

      But I love it, actually. I love how she’s even changed dramatically since I posted. Of course she did.

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