Problem: School Lunches Are Complete Crap; Solution: Let’s Starve The Kids

Prepare for outrage, because that's the unabashed reason behind this "guest post." Actually, it's a hybrid, because I'll be adding plenty of follow up after her part of it. Sadie sue Saunders is a longtime reader, longtime supporter, and was actually the subject of a couple of other blog posts—one of which was included in version 2.0 of my book. See here, and here.

Sadie sue emailed me with some info the other day and I immediately replied: "Make it a guest post and I'll toss it up." She polished it, but kept it in the form of a letter to me. Then she emailed me some other stuff you are not going to believe (wait until the end of the post). ...I'm also going to tell you single guys that Sadie sue is a single mom of three beautiful girls in the midwest and is looking for a suitable "caveman." If I were single and 30s-40s-ish, I'd figure out how to get an email out to her and strike up a friendly conversation leading to friendship. Just sayin'. She told me it was OK to mention that when I asked if I could.


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Thanks for allowing me to rant about the new, despicable Michelle-Obama-inspired crime against our children. It is called the "improved" school lunch program. You can see the guidelines recipe for starving our children here. I am not nearly as articulate as the former teacher who wrote this very well-researched article, but I am going to give it a shot anyway and here is a quote from the other post so you know it’s worth looking at:

As a biologist and someone who taught anatomy and physiology as a part time job, I'm appalled. Apparently dietitians no longer take anatomy courses because the first thing you would learn about the nervous system and the brain in MY three credit college class is that the brain is fueled by protein and fat. And the USDA has all but eliminated protein and fat from the school lunch menu.

We cave people know a bit about portion sizes, but to illustrate the utter stupidity of the school lunch snack program, I would like to point out that for my daughters, the meat portion sizes equate to 1/4 of a hot dog, 3/4 cup of lettuce, and 1/2 cup of some canned HFCS drenched fruit and a carton of skim milk. That's it. Nothing else... W.T.F.??? Oh, and breakfast may not have any protein at all. None; as in nada, zero, zip zilch...Elvis has left the building and he took Common Sense and all the bacon and eggs with him. This isn't about my kids; it's about everyone's kids. This so diabolical that it seems like the goal is to stunt people's growth and add to keeping them dumbed down. Like a bunch of evil geniuses sat around asking themselves, "How can we keep everyone weak and stupid?" None of us can really concentrate and learn while we are starving, not that it's a scientific opinion, but that's how it works with the little humans at my house and I am far too lazy and pissed off to find any of the gazillion scientific studies that prove I’m right.

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I used to pack the girls lunches about half the time, but now it will have to be every single day, and no, I don’t have a money tree in the back yard. Oh yes, I will bitch about the extra cost and the pain in the ass of getting up extra early to make breakfast and pack lunches and I will need to clock a little OT here and there to cover the expense, but ultimately, I can afford this. Sadly, many families count on their kids getting that free meal, so what the hell are they supposed to do? I’m all for thinning the herd, but the slow, weak and stupid generally do a great job of taking themselves out of the equation and I don’t think that it’s necessary to intentionally starve innocent children.

I have talked to several parents about the new "higher" supposedly "healthier" standards and, needless to say, even the non-paleo folks (if they are able to afford it) are packing their kids’ lunches from now on—including the head chef for our district—who is also fully prepared to resign over this outrage. On top of the portion sizes the schools are now forbidden from making anything from scratch. Nevermind that the school was never going to serve up meatza—but now they have to use highly processed nutrient-free frozen crap instead of allowing our talented food service folks to make the pizza dough and sauce themselves. (Seriously, I refer to the head lunch dude as "chef" because he and Mrs. Chef own the local bakery and they cater big events. It’s not paleo, but it is delicious!)

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Imagine how it would feel to be a growing child being given 1/2 of a hotdog as your "main" entree. Oh, wait, did I mention that meat is no longer the main dish? The school must now serve the veggie on the big part of the lunch tray. Meat, if you can even call a hotdog or canned ham-like-meat-flavored-product "meat," is now a side dish and there is no requirement that meat be served at each meal. In contrast to the government dietician approved wisdom, this morning, the girls ate a big pile of bacon and each one had 2-3 eggs plus a couple handfuls of cherry tomatoes. That was at 6:30 this morning. At 7:05, they walked 1.2 miles to the school/bus stop. Zoe's lunch was at 11:00 and then—sorry, no afternoon snacks allowed—at 3:55, when the bus dropped her off she and Mattie walked the 1.2 miles home. Zoe is having a growth spurt, so after that, I wouldn't at all be surprised if she used her cavegirl stick to actually kill something and eat it on the way home. Even worse for Skyler, she is at the Jr. High now and she has volleyball until 6:30pm. Skyler went to volleyball practice for two and a half hours after having a “lunch” that consisted of two chicken nuggets, ½ cup of canned peaches and some mushy, disgusting green beans that she wouldn’t even eat. Yeah, that will freaking fuel an athlete and girl about to hit puberty...arrgh.

This concludes my bitch session. Richard, thank you so much for allowing me to vent my frustration on this topic. If your readers have any suggestions for lunches or tips for keeping things hot/cold, I would really appreciate it!


Think she's alone? Here, see these comments on the USDA's own blog (courtesy David Brown)

...I know that most, especially long timers, will always understand how my rage works. For others, it's always and will always be about them—even as they waste their hours trying to convince all y'all that I'm a detriment to the community at large. But, unfortunately, sane and essentially caring heads like Sadie sue's will always, always prevail (the ones I really care about)—and I have zero fear and much amusement over what an evil celebrity I've become. Let it roll, grils. And, kisses. You give me good laughs almost everyday...to the point I'm sorely disappointed and my morning coffee tastes bad if I don't have something new and salacious about myself to read. Consider my ego, please!

...I exchanged a few emails with Sadie sue in the runnup to all of this. Like this.

Glad you liked the letter format that I sent you.  I tried to be brief and keep the language accessible, as I am obviously not qualified to have any sort of expert opinion other than having little kids.  We cooked all day yesterday trying to get some of the lunches made that the girls will take this week.  They "sampled" everything we decided on and I am pretty sure that they ate an entire week's worth of Ms.-Obama-approved calories yesterday afternoon alone. (Take that, government control-freaks!)

BTW, pork chops marinated in raspberry vinaigrette and stuffed with cornbread and dried cherry stuffing are delicious!

I've always loathed the idea that a "First Lady" has any more than fuck all to say about your life—like, by virtue of a bigger mob of social masturbators (voters), they are somehow anointed in ways that diminish your on-the-ground efforts and reality in lieu of their political reality and promotion for the sake of adulation and power over you. For those who have the stomach for it, here, from 2007: Fuck Obama and His Stupid Bitch. Call me a misogynist if you like for the 100th time, but what do you wanna bet that Michelle's innocent kids aren't living the life of luxury and opulence at your expense (...just so you know: Fuck GWB and his stupid bitch, too; she ought to have stuck to honest work, like teaching kids). This ought not be taken as political in any sense. I don't vote. Fuck 'em all.

Last. If you're outraged about my characterization of "our leaders" (who the fuck needs one?) that was my intention because if you don't find this even more outrageous, then I have nothing for you. From Sadie sue, yesterday afternoon. If you paid attention, she wrote how now she has to pack a lunch every day. Well....

Update on the lunch outrage: Salad chock full of homegrown veggies (beets, green beans, kohlrabi, carrots and broccoli on some store bought lettuce) topped with the meat from two  grilled chicken drumsticks. Lunch monitor (scratch that) Overbearing, Control Freak, Lunch Nazi told the middle child she had too much meat and that isn't allowed.  Stay tuned.  This could get ugly. [emphasis added]

Now it's your turn. Just go ahead and complain that I called dear dear Michelle a Stupid Bitch. Go right ahead, because I can't wait for it.

Comments

  1. Reading the comments on the USDA blog made me so very happy.

    While I do not agree with many of them, the fact that almost universally they repressent challenges to authority, and demands of evidence based science.

    Even better the demands just for government to fuck right off.

  2. Michele says:

    WOW. So glad my kids are now done school. Not sure how I would handle being told what and how much my kids could eat. I feel sorry for all the parents trying to deal with that. Good luck!

  3. Pat Crofoot says:

    Auuuughhhh…. First No Child Left Untested.. now this..

    And as a former Reno, now CA resident I’m sure you saw the Vegan for a Day article about Paddle Boarding around Tahoe..

  4. AndrewS says:

    Sadie sue, as heartened as I am to hear how well you’re (trying) to feed your kids, I hope your also giving them the mental half, and that none of your kids were traumatized by the Lunch Nazi. I had to teach myself how to think (my parents trusted the schools to do that), and as much as I hate the poor nutrition I had growing up I value my free mind much more.

    • ladysadie1 says:

      Thanks, Andrew.

      Rest assured, I am giving my kids the mental half as well. I teach them self reliance and the skills to go along with it.

      As for food, they choose for themselves and, for the most part, not only prepare, but grow their own food. At this point, my input is minimal and the older two (especially the middle one) know enough technique and food science to create their own dishes. I know grown women that can barely boil water, so I am pretty proud of them! The girls even have a pretty good start on knowing how to forage for food and what the medicinal uses are for many herbs and wild plants.

      They are also much more politically aware than most of the sheeple I deal with on a daily basis including being able to quote some of our founding fathers. We not only know about the Second Amendment, we actively use those rights.

      I better shut up now, or I will end up on a list somewhere… ;) oops, probably too late for that.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Should bold face some of this^^^

        I have plenty of single moms asking me how to get their kids to eat real food. I always say the same response: let them help pick out real food at the store, and let them help prep and cook.

        Amazing how easy it is when they feel some ownership of the food.

      • Precisely. If yiu’ll follow the liks to the first FTA experience with Her Loveliness, that was a major theme, involve the kinds, in both prep and cleanup. They will better manage their urges and cravings if they have to do the work.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Bingo! Exactly the recipe for having children eat real food.

      • Echoing your exho, Dr Kadar. Thank you.

      • You’ll make a good Dad :)

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Plan on it. Lots of little sociopathic rugrats to help rule the kingdom.

  5. I see an uptick in home schooling about to happen. We may soon have neighborhood-based in home schools like in home day care as who would subject their kids to this regime? I see two or three mothers getting together to teach their combined children the things they need to learn to do well in today’s world including evaluating available foods and picking the ones with the most cost/benefit ratios.

    • Shelley says:

      What a wonderful idea to combine teaching talents from several moms. I bet it could even work if mothers “teachers” switch off every other day to allow one to get some work done or errands, etc.

      • Katherine Hamilton says:

        Bravo!!! I salute all the moms who are determined that their kids will have a decent meal at school, even if we have to get up at 4 in the damn morning to make those suckers. Fuck Michelle Obama, dead off in her lard ASS.

        And absolutely LOVE the group homeschool idea, too. Good luck, ladies. Warrior moms UNITE!!!

        :)

      • “Bravo!!! I salute all the moms who are determined that their kids will have a decent meal at school, even if we have to get up at 4 in the damn morning to make those suckers. Fuck Michelle Obama, dead off in her lard ASS.”

        Clap clap clap.

      • Yes but you thought armed feds charging onto a farm over milk was frightening?! Wait’ll they come charging into your neighborhood classroom and terrify the children!!

    • Sounds like a fantastic idea!

  6. Richard, I know you don’t care, but you lose credibility in the eyes of some when you attack people for their ideas. Attack the ideas. The Food Pyramid is a bad idea. Building effectively enforcible national nutritional policy that violates the rights of regular people is a horrible idea. None of that makes any individual person a horrible person.

    This would have been a much more compelling piece if you’d limited your attack to the school food programs and to the political system in general.

    • “..but you lose credibility in the eyes of some when you attack people for their ideas.”

      Precisely my intention. Ideas come from individuals. They aren’t just magically out there. I mean to attack individuals. They are welcome to attack back. I’m ready.

      “Attack the ideas.”

      I have always and will always attack both, the ideas and the source of those ideas.

      “None of that makes any individual person a horrible person.”

      Horrible people exist. All four people running for the privilege of ruling you next qualify.

      I delight in attacking them, and I delight in shaming the stupid who are looking for someone to rule or lead them.

      • I appreciate your perspective, but sensible people have bad ideas and fools the occasional good ones. If the idea is bad enough, attacking the person amounts to nothing more than piling on. :)

        Also, bad systems make reasonable people do horrid things. See politics and religion for two obvious examples.

        Finally, and most fortunately, the four people running for the privilege of ruling you don’t have the privilege of ruling me, at least not yet, although Stephen Harper appears to have “subjugate Canada more completely to US rule” at the top of his daily To Do list.

        To blame Michelle Obama for the insanity of the McGovern-led group that propelled us into this mess in the first place… I’m not so sure that tracks.

      • I re-read my comment. I don’t like how it started, but I can’t edit it, so let me try this:

        Richard, I agree with you that ideas come from people and that we do well to hold people accountable for their decisions.

        Please read this in place of the smarmy and condescending “I appreciate your perspective”. I guess I pressed “Submit” before thinking long enough.

      • Don’t give it a thought, JB.

      • Cheers.

    • Saint Velvet says:

      I call horseshit, JB. People with horrible ideas make up much of the political system and are responsible for the havoc they wreak, wholly and separately. It’s worse because they’re hiding behind the “system”, not better or somehow excusable.

      • I get you. Really, I do. I don’t agree with your analysis of the cause of the problem. It doesn’t take long for a system such as a large political or religious one to become its own organism, capable of swallowing up those in its path. Not all people who participate in those systems are victims. Many are. Possibly most. But not all. That’s just too unlikely.

        I agree that hiding behind the system does not absolve one of responsibility, but the child who grows up Catholic because he had no choice isn’t entirely to blame for believing the insane things the system teaches him. :) In this way, politics seems to have a similar effect.

      • Let me add: I know that /people/ created that system in the first place. I also know that system dynamics being what it is, people are, on average, too stupid to control those systems once putting them into place. Since we can’t live without systems, blaming us for creating complex ones that we can’t control seems silly — blaming us for not trying to manage the outcomes, I totally get.

    • Serve the same menu in the senate cafeteria.

    • No, Richard’s right…

      FUCK anyone who tells us what we can and can’t eat. period.

      • “No, Richard’s right…”

        Only to peole who have a visceral reaction to a kid going hungry over the fact that I baited everyone by calling dear Michelle a bitch. Wanna guess what the first comment was on my FB page?

        Bobbie Tornblom:

        “First Bitch? Fuck you.”

        I could have easily done this post without the addins, probably even gotten more cheerleading. I don’t operate that way. I purposely put bait up there and was not a bit surprised that it was taken even faster than it took the folks of decent good conscience to weigh in over starving kids. (now, wait for the arguments that they aren’t really starving, because Michelle is just so not a bitch)

        Fuck Barak Obama, Fuck Mitt Romney and the only reason I call them bitches is because they act like it. I don’t think I ever called Hillary that and if somehow I ever did, she didn’t deserve it because she never played the role. I call her Der Commisar. She at leat has my respect in some areas, but then again, so does Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin & Mao. Practicalities and what humans will swallow voluntarily matter. It matter in ways most people don’t thing about.

        “FUCK anyone who tells us what we can and can’t eat. period.”

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Man I have to stop saying “bitch, papa need food (grunt grunt)” when I ask my beloveds for dinner.

        Now they’re in bad company.

        Thanks for ruining a solid term of endearment,

      • Alright, I’ll have to give Laf over that. That’s only because you’re misogynist^2 compared to me. :)

        Thanks. Can I call you “shield”

      • BTW, Dada, do you ever get the impression that you’re labelled a women hater because you love them so damn much?

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I do love feminine women. I’m absolutely bonkers over ever part of them. It’s insane how awesome a feminine and demure woman is in my life, and I’ll take one over a supermodel any day of the week, even Fridays.

        My biggest detractors online always end up my closest friends when they experience what I mean by “taming the hamster” — and sex is not (usually) involved. A man who leads by testosterone is a man respected by all by the most hormonally-challenged women and other men.

        It just doesn’t vibe well online. I need a TV show, ASAP. Or you need one and I can be your color commentary.

        I think “shield” is a perfect nickname. Me likey.

        I used to tell women to call me captain. No more.

      • “A man who leads by testosterone is a man respected by all but the most hormonally-challenged women and other men.”

        Welcome to my juxtaposed world, lately. Then again, I’ve always said I want love or hate, indifference is really annoying.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I paraphrase this as “90% truly hate the character I play, 10% absolutely adore the man I am. This is better than being ignored by most if not all.”

        I’m an absolutist. The world is black or white. If you see grey, zoom in closer, it’s all black and white pixels at the most detailed level.

      • Pablito says:

        I used to think like that. Then I grew up. And got wiser.

        Absolutism is for those who chose to be mentally lazy. It takes intellectual courage and energy to examine nuance.

        And you are wrong about what makes gray in a pixel (raster) based image. There are shades of gray.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        “But what will Sadie do when it turns out she’s sexually worthless and no worthy m an would marry her because she is over 30, has 3 children, and works for a living giving her “masculine talents”?”

        Yikes, Wooo. If I didn’t see the validity in your statement or understand the context, I would probably be highly offended. The only thing that I taek exception to is the “sexually worthless” reference. I assure you that isn’t the case, unless your only intention was to point out that I do not wish to have more offspring.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Woo: no woman with progesterone-balanced feminine qualities is worthless, she may just be worth less in the sexual marketplace. She will want a high status man but may not be able to pay for the highest status men. Big difference. Sadie will do fine. I’ve helped some grandmothers in their 60s find great guys after becoming widowers themselves. Only the feminist-Marxist are of no value beyond a pump and dump.

        I don’t sexually revile wayward dames. I dated a 19 year old not too long ago — a high status one with a full ride degree angle and a guaranteed six figure job at 21. I broke up with her gently, realizing I would trigger her reward centers too strongly and spoil her for a future husband

        My lovers were typically high status powerful women who are in boring marriages or relationships. The man behind the curtain, ready for a weekend in Majorca when beckoned. These women had what they needed from a domestic partner, but their strong hypergamy meant they needed their hamsters calmed irregularly. I saved those relationships by enabling infidelity. I don’t feel a lick of guilt. Needs were met across the board.

        I am not money driven. Of my income, 80% goes to high risk startups where the profits flow to my partners, not me. I like the risky portion of kick starting a small business. When it succeeds, I request a buy out and use the funds on a new venture with new people. Money does not control me, ever. My businesses are also community driven, providing charity for locals in need: free resumes for the unemployed, economic consulting for the poor, real food delivery for those unable to regularly get to farmers markets, etc. I pay for those out of my profit share, never my partners’ profits.

        I hire unemployed alcoholics and help them on the wagon and build skills. I have a dozen such success stories just since 2004.

        I don’t need to be a successful online guru. I don’t need the income. I just like stealing men from the World’s societies and governments and helping them steal their families away. The secret to anarchism is to withdraw. Call me John Galt, if you will. My profit is from seeing tight knit societies exist next door to schlubs, but hidden. That’s my goal.

        No woman who is invited into my bed is tricked there. I never have drunk sex, not even in a long term relationship. No drugs. No promises. No PUA tactics. I don’t pick up women in bars, never have. I don’t do one night stands, never have. I use condoms, always. I get tested and request my lovers do the same.

        You don’t know me, and you never will, because you don’t fit the definition of what I want in my ever-growing inner circle.

        Psychopath? Hardly. Sociopath? I took those psych tests twice, and never showed an inkling of sociopathy.

        I do have Hyperthymic Temperament, diagnosed. Google it. That’s me, to a T. In simple terms: I can’t be depressed, hormonally, so I just work at euthymia if possible.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Sadly, FDR as mentioned in this post, also had Hyperthymic temperament: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/opinion/maybe-washington-needs-more-craziness.html?pagewanted=all

        May I be as loved and hated as he.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I won’t marry, period. Domestic partnership incorporated in legal means is all.

        And I’m no hypocrite: my warnings are to young women and slightly older men. Biological imperatives are very strong. We are mammals, as such we are easily swayed by our biology. If one is young, one can maximize their life’s happiness by expressing their biology as suited.

        If one is old, one can maximize their SMV by understanding their biological functions and the needs they can still provide for others.

        Of course, you’re a useless cunt. That’s not an ad hominem, it’s just a truthful label. A useful cunt is a woman who is worth only a pump and dumb, you don’t even offer that usefulness. Bad combo.

        Endocrinological studies have been harmed by the politically correct (and political) NIH. The same assholes who furthered and distributed other scientific research into heart healthy grains and the safety of corn syrup sweeteners. I trust N=1 anecdotes more because I see them working.

        Those who follow neogamy seems to be very unhappy. 60%+ divorce rates. Even higher percentages of adults who feel trapped and live their one life in regret and guilt and frustration.

        I have hundreds of wives on my Facebook who traded neogamy for paleogamy of sorts and admit they’re happier, healthier, more sexual, more submissive, more in love. Hundreds of N=1 anecdotes.

        I have dozens of women consulting with me, right now. They’re mostly high status, overeducated. I tell them to act demure, fake it if need be. They respond: we’re happier doing this! We’re happier submissive! We’re happier scrubbing tubs than sitting in cubicles! We’re happier cooking a great dinner than working 8 hour meetings.

        N=1 x 100s anecdotes prove my point.

        If you want to trust NIH funded and distributed research, go for it. Your body is wrecked permanently from years of following the USDA. Your thyroid went with it. There is nothing for me to offer you, I would refuse if asked; I would refund if paid.

        But I can use you as an example. I plan to.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I don’t buy women I date dinner until they’ve cooked for me twice from scratch without me asking or suggesting.

        I don’t spend money on women, not a dollar, until they’ve proven they’re long term worthy, and then I make them pay part of their way.

        I tend to date educated but not overeducated women. I prefer suburban or rural as they have less reward issues, in my experience.

        In the past 5 years, I only dated two women who consumed alcohol. Both ended up boring me. In 10 years I only dated one gal with bipolar issues, I usually flag those within a half hour of meeting.

        I live on well less than one would think — my homes internationally combine live/work buildouts. I welcome anyone here to visit me in Chicago, Lauderdale, Gdańsk, Mumbai, Strausbourg or Houston — my usual homes, and see how I do it on the cheap. I spend very little of my income on living, because I own almost nothing that requires maintenance.

        I bought my first TV in 10 years last week. I have nothing to watch on it — no cable, no DVD player.

        No credit cards, no mortgage, no loans. No degree, not even a GED high school equivalency.

        As I said above, I have Hyperthymic temperament, so I’m stuck in happy mode regardless of the situation. 90% hate me, 10% love me, very very few are indifferent.

        I wouldn’t ask for any other way. Doors open ever day, I walk through them.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        People with HT aren’t sociopaths, we fail the criteria.

        You’re a tool, Woo. You obviously know nothing.

        Sociopathy is diagnosed in the DSM-IV as a pattern of disregard of the rights of others. Im on my iPad so I can’t look it up or quote it.

        I encourage individual rights, I denounce groupthink. That’s no sociopathy.

        I encourage individual powers and spend hundreds of hours a year, pro bono, helping the indigent find a trade skills. All the homeless in my neighborhoods know me and work for me — washing windows, polishing floors, cleaning machinery, etc.

        I don’t need to defend myself to you, it’s my frame here, not yours.

        But it is important to smack you down and show others the insanity of a woman who can’t secure and get commitment from a masculine man and the cock that would cure her insanity temporarily. A good hard slam of oxytocin would do you wonders for an evening or weekend, I just can’t lower myself to that level. Nightmares and all.

        Sociopaths violate rights of others. Hyperthymics are enjoyed by others, create equals out of followers, and are very generous and happy to share. For every one guy paying me $290 an hour, I help dozens of guys for free.

        I don’t help useless tools. May others learn from your poverty of life, Wooo. May you help redeem other women who are nearing the same mistakes you made that lead you to be a weak and useless mound of flesh.

      • Shelley says:

        :-) AB – I don’t know if I would date you if I were single and young with no kids under 40, etc., because I’m a thinker and watcher and I’d realize that you would not commit the way I wanted someone to commit in a relationship (I would most likely be one those you became bored with anyway), but I think you’d be a super awesome guy to hang out with (do you have girl friends?). See, you could lead by example on how to be spontaneous and free-willed since I am typically uptight and scheduled with very low rewards needs – except that I do love cabernet.

      • Galina L. says:

        I usually stay away from the male-female relationship discussions most of the time because I have never ever had any problem in that department, it is like I don’t read any discussions about how to cure diarrhea because I just don’t have it. For a guy who is completely fine, you talk too much, too concentrated on talking about your women education, like there is something troubling you but you want to cast a positive impression. My female instincts scream “RED FLAG” and “A creep alert”.
        I am slightly over 50 right now, experienced several relationships and in a second marriage right now. I yet to experience a pain of rejection, no one in my whole life ever dumped me. Most guys who I left still on a friendly terms with me. I have a decent education (Masters in a Technical field), talented in a cooking, not a great beauty, but people say I look very feminine, and I am very perceptive of how people around me feel and what they think. I don’t know you in a real life, of course, but from your posts you don’t look attractive at all, I wouldn’t be interested in somebody like you if I were looking for a mate right now. You are very cold emotionally, emotionnally disconnected with people, inside very self-centered and calculating. Not a great companion, but can fake it. I guess it is you problem, you don’t love, you posses and enjoy your possessions for a time being. It feels like you look at people not like there are personalities, but some lego-set of personal characteristics, they are your collection, your toys you play with them for a while and let them play with yourself for a while. From looking around I can tell there are so many troubled women around with masochistic inclinations who easily became a pray to guys with a cold heart and after being played with became even less sure of themselves and more damaged emotionally after people like you used them as a tool to scratch their ego and to stimulate their genitalia. Probably, it is not your fault to be the way you are, it is your nature. You can’t fall in love, like somebody can’t appreciate music or art. Because you can’t feel, you can fake right relationship even better because emotions don’t interfere with calculations. You wouldn’t get anyone like me , who is sure of herself and was always interested in companionship and a mutual human interest.

      • Shelley says:

        I think that may be it, Galina, we’re older and wiser and do not easily fall prey (or have at least learned along the way to intuitively know there may be danger). Hopefully, AB is not leading younger, more vulnerable girls into areas they do not understand. At least he’s honest up front so that we may take him or leave him. but, like I said before, we are not his dating type anyway.

        I would love to hang with you as well and eat some of your delicious-sounding soup! Me being Polish, you can bring on the sour cream!! Are you on the east coast or west coast of FL? Me – west.

      • Galina L. says:

        I live on the North East, I would like to serve you some soup for sure. My favorite summer soup is made with beets .
        I am off dating game for sure, it is just I wanted to say something because rarely somebodies comments gave me so much intuitive alert of things being wrong like what that guy was saying. Unfortunately,it is often the case young girls are attracted to “bad boys” who knows how to make pore bitches to jump through hoops. Life is not always easy on people.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Nah, only their feminist-tainted friends and family hate me.

        Their feminine mothers, sisters and friends all appreciate my talents and my adoration for those I date seriously.

        Keep attacking, Wooo. My reputation only gets stronger as people see your hamster spinning out of control. Spin, hamster, spin!

      • ladysadie1 says:

        wooo, I knew you weren’t addressing me personally. No worries!

      • Galina L. says:

        I wouldn’t be interested in a such guy even 25 years ago. Why such guys think that they can reasonably judge a value of a woman if they themselves are more a curse than a catch? It is the association with hot-chick collectors devalues a girl more than anything. That and the idea she needs somebody else to give her a value. Before females began to work in masses they had to get a guy in order to have a person who would provide for them. Those who had an independent source of income were considered to be lucky because only they could be independent. Now, a female has children, works, support herself, and we are discussing does some guy needs her? May be it is she who needs or wants, or doesn’t need him? I am at the age group when most people are off dating, but still I know at least three couples in my circle when a middle-aged woman ditched her guy and went to another one (most of the time the piece in such families was destroid by troubles associated with poor economy since 2008, then conflicts started ). In each case it is very hard on a guy, for them the crash of their family were more disastrous, while women mostly are more connected with children, have better social circle, most of the time flourish after the divorce while guys react with a health crisis. There are different situations, of course, but the older males became, the more they need the company of their wife or a female companion.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Women who think they can be happy and fulfilled by job and single motherhood will be lovely to interview in 20 years.

        Hell, I’ve been doing it now with powerful women in their 50s.

        It’s such a joy. I go home and laugh myself to tear and then have sex with my high status but submissive (to me) lover and then we both laugh about those broads afterwards while we recuperate.

        A woman is a mammal. She has mammalian instincts. Her human logic side allows her to fight these instincts in order to be socially accepted, but those instincts will come back, again and again. The feminist-Marxists want you to believe as Galina here has said, but women are hypergamous creatures, they are always ready to trade-up to a better guy.

        Divorce is primarily caused or filed or instigated by women who are bored with their low status guys. Guys need to stay higher status than their women to prevent divorce (which gives the woman more in court, also).

        Many breakups in non-marital relationships are ended by women — a vast majority. Again, this is because the woman is “trading up” to a higher status man.

        Hypergamy exists, it’s natural, and a man can avoid the pains of hypergamy by always staying in control of himself, keeping his status higher than the woman’s, and having options if she fails him — even if he’s dedicated and committed to her.

        Read up on Athol Kay’s website — http://www.marriedmansexlife.com — and see what he has to say. He’s saving marriages all over the world by forcing men to be masculine, and commanding previously high status women to be submissive. And both sexes are happier.

      • Shelley says:

        Oh Galina – bring on the borscht!! Funny story – my grandfather invited my brother’s future wife and parents over for dinner and made, what he thought, was an awesome rich meal of borscht made with real broth and “expensive” stew meat. They, being Italian, about fell out of their chair as they had to choke down such foreign food! Us – we licked the bowl.

        I do absolutely celebrate my age (46, this year) and would never turn back the hands of time!

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Shelley: the prettiest and hottest woman I know is 45. She puts all the 20-somethings to shame with her grace, style, overall beauty, and she still looks drop dead in a bikini.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        I smell hamster droppings… Even with sufficient income, women are designed to Follow, not Lead. Silly, self-indulgent women who divorce because they are ‘unhaaaaapy’ are deluded and brainwashed by feminist propaganda.

        Submissive and subservient are NOT the same thing. If you don’t understand that then you have had one too many sips of the proverbial koolaid.

        I find your assertion that women and children are better off in women-led households highly offensive. Men of Value are not “hot-chick-collectors” they acquire and lead families. Women (paleo women) recognize that their value is an an Asset to the family unit, but they don’t frame themselves as the ones who go out and kill the Sabre-Tooth Tigers, rule the cave and create the hierarchy that makes men second-class citizens or expendable.

        Females do not “have children” they are impregnated. I do not celebrate the “ditching” of men. Such women are quite foolish and actively choose to harm their children and thus society as a whole. May I politely suggest that you go sell your divorce-porn elsewhere?

      • Shelley says:

        We are hot exactly because of our age and confidence that most don’t have when they’re young. I am more confident, more fit, more healthy, more sane at 46 than I ever was at 20 and I never look at 20 year old as any type of competition at all. Maybe it’s just me, but once I became confident, married a guy who loves me, kids whom I adore, a stable job enhancing my competitive side, I am free to be who I want to be.

        Maybe the trick is for women to not settle with marrying any guy that comes along until they are at least you equal if not better so as to not find yourself in the very sad situation of marrying lower, the types of which I have certainly dated and dumped.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Shelley,
        Your are awesome! “Married a guy who loves me…” Perfection. Stability. I love that!

      • Galina L. says:

        I am not a Marxist or a Feminist, just a normal woman who wants to be treated like a normal human being, not a submissive sex devise. BTW, sex is way not enough for a successful marriage. Sex is just the necessary part of a whole thing. May be even the foundation, but not the building. BTW, females who left their guys I was talking about left their marriages because they were looking for more romantic relationships, more joy in their lives. I left my first husband after 8 years of marriage because I fell out of love with him, I went to live with my mother. It is good to have a choice. Financial independence gives that choice. When life is going on people may change, grew apart. A guy with a high status may loose it, get sick, loose money on a market, went bankrupt. According to your theory hot chick should dump him as soon as she could in such case. It may happen anyway with a hardship because during hard time people have tendency to have more conflicts, but the guy who was valued for his status only will not have a chance. It would be the time to get another milking cow for his toy-girl.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I’ve delegated a rule about breakups.

        Gauge a person’s “desire grade level” towards you. I label them A,B,C,D,F like any grading scale.

        If a woman’s desire grade level towards her guy falls below a B, she will keep him around but she’ll start looking. She’ll dump him the minute she has a desire grade of B or higher for a new guy. She’ll also dump any guy whose desire grade level she has towards him is an F.

        A guy? He’ll dump a gal when his desire grade level goes below a B towards her.

        Men are the gatekeepers of commitment; women are the gatekeepers of sex. If a woman isn’t submissive to her man, he will lose interest. If a man is not dominant to his woman, she will lose interest.

        Athol Kay over at MMSL works this out very nicely in his cheap and wonderful ebook. I send plenty of married couples or individuals in bad marriages over there.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        I never said that the man is valued for his (financial) status…quite the opposite, and you are projecting your guilt for not having the loyalty to work through hard times. Is living with momma better than being an adult? I think not…

        Where did you get the idea that I think a woman’s worth is as a sex-devise? That’s ludicrous! I stated that women are to be an Asset to the man they accept as their chosen Leader. Sex, darling, is a natural by-product of knowing your place in the familial hierarchy. When you understand this , sex is not a chore or duty, or “necessary” it is a pleasure.

        “Financial independence”? Is that what “living with your parents as an adult is called?

      • Shelley says:

        I think you’re generalizing to the wrong crowd, AB, maybe this is how I was at 20, but I would think the women on this site are quite secure in their minds to know that when a guy gets to around a B going towards a C for whatever reason, there are either lots of conversation to get that grade higher or they’re physically long gone before someone else comes along. I don’t think I got the vibe from any of us females to think otherwise. We simply don’t have the time to waste floundering around putting out to someone we find just adequate – it doesn’t that work that way with me anyway.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Sadie:

        I have had maybe 10 women this week alone contact me through referrals from friends. All 10 of them told me their husbands are no longer sweet and romantic with them, they’re not paying attention to them, and that they just feel so alone.

        I asked all 10 women the same thing: are you having sex with your husband 2-3 times per week? Do you ever deny him sex the first 2-3 times he asks you each week? Do you initiate sex with him so you do have sex with him 2-3 times per week?

        They all answered the same thing: NO! Why would I have sex with him?

        Because it’s a need of men, and if a woman says no more than once, men tend to white knight and stop asking. Sometimes the man smartly goes elsewhere.

        Read this, written by a woman: http://modernreject.com/2010/12/have-sex-even-when-you-dont-feel-like-it/

        It’s amazing how many women I meet that don’t realize the connection between a woman having sex and a man providing romance and sweetness.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        It’s not the “romance and sweetness” that women want…constant pandering to the hamster is precisely why women throw away good men/beta providers and believe the femDom BS.

        I have more than proven my frame with my comments. I am actually rather irritated that you are implying that women initiate sex. If the man is comfortably, confidently in his naturally “ordained” role, sex is a given. Some silly brain-washed beta/provider/ATM has no concept of this, and the more and he strives to be the “nice man” that the MSM (MainStreamMedia) says he should be, the less and less attractive he is to his mate.

        Please, stop the WKs! They dig their own graves and financial ruin by missing this basic fact of human nature.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I agree, man should be the initiator of sex, but if a woman fights it off, even the strongest man will typically fear the “RAPE! RAAAAAAAPE!” challenge.

        I tell guys whose wives decline sex to just file for divorce papers and move on. Don’t even look back. Give it a few weeks, unless she’s truly dealing with a health crisis, and then replace.

        There’s a little secret: you only live once and life is precious.

        The WKs make me insane. They’re the worst people on the planet, other than politicians and judges and the shyster-lawyers that encourage that type of behavior.

      • Galina L. says:

        I don’t celebrate a divorce, I celebrate the opportunity to choose. All three women who I knew and got divorced were not absolutely rational in life by their nature, it is true. I didn’t tell the children will be always better-off in a female-led household, life could turn differently. I married first time at 20 years old, got divorced at 28, I always thought it was the right decision. Why the hell I should be unhappy? It is my life. I have been in a second marriage for 20 years, and I believe I am an asset to my family. Right now my husband is a bread-winner now, when I met him my salary was much better, his job situation was ridiculous, but I didn’t based my choice on his “status” which is a subject to change. If you feel any thought about divorce is too offensive for such perfect paleo-person like yourself, don’t torture yourself reading my comments. I was replaying to a person who lives a life of a hot-chick collector , not a family leader,and not talking to you in case if you didn’t notice.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Galina: The reason that women divorce men is because the men are losers.

        You did the right thing leaving your first schlub husband and finding a good provider who cares about your needs as you do for his. I encourage this thinking.

        I would love to see marriages last, but in truth, it is the weak males of society that are fully at fault. They can’t provide the masculinity, the testosterone providing that a woman needs, so their women get really bored. A woman can’t tell her husband to become a leader or dominant, if she does, she places herself above him and it makes things worse.

        So, I agree — divorce is the wise course of action for most women.

      • Galina L. says:

        All your confusion stems from the fact I am not talking to YOU. I own you no explanations, one answer for single sniffer for humster dropping is enough and I am not “darling” for you. Am I clear now?

      • ladysadie1 says:

        “I celebrate the opportunity to choose” Choose what, exactly? Momma’s basement as a grown woman? Did she also watch your kids while you went out to find your next paycheck-fluffer and servant? Yeesh, if you don’t want your comments to be scrutinized in public, don’t make them publicly.

        @AB divorce any man who isn’t a natural born leader? Geez, get a grip. Your “losers” may just be men who have never been socialized to accept that they are respected as leaders . They are the would-be leaders of their homes who are hen-pecked into submission and indoctrinated into insignificance. By the shrews they married.

        Yeah, I am flying the flag of no-Quarter here. Vilify me if you must. Enjoy. I am not scared of my computer screen as others apparently
        are…

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Sadie: If a woman made a bad choice of a husband, it’s better for her to conserve as much of her prime high SMV years as possible so she can learn from her mistake and land a dominant leader, yes.

        I verbally aggress way more against the males of the West than I do the females because the males actually do have the power of commitment in their hands but won’t strengthen their characters up. Men have allowed the West to become soft and weak, and they should reap what they sow.

        Hopefully in time, the Red Pill will be known by everyone, and we can put this period of failure that we call Democracy into the history books forever.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Let’s just put away the disaster of “egalitarianism” in the history books. Men and women are not, NOT equal. “democracy” was a failure from the start, that is 2 wolves and one sheep voting on what’s for dinner. A republic, on the other hand, may succeed.

        I just tire of the narcissistic, throw away society that we live in… and the rejection of our natural instincts (intact until Margaret Sanger popularized her ideals) has ruined our culture and emasculated many, if not most men and opened the door to women viewing men as expendable or ‘collateral damage’. So our offspring are raised alone, in a vacuum devoid of masculinity.

        Pathetic.

      • Galina L. says:

        Life is long, often man’s status could be changed. Circumstances may change. Personalities are more stable than a monetary status. What if you status change? I experienced a disintegration of my country (Soviet Union), everything turned upside-down, it made me realize we din’t know a future. I am glad I was well-equipped to survive then.
        One if my lady-friends married a very unpractical guy who was her best friend for many years interested in a pure science. She dropped her carrier because it was not enough money, was a bread winner in their family for more than 10 years, but only last 5 years what her husband was doing became profitable. She loves her guy. Probably, some people will think about him as weak person. She sure loves that she makes all major decisions. He is proud about her being so practical. I many families with clear visible it is easy to observe more distance between husband and a wife.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        A woman getting a college degree to have a useful and economically viable trade skill is a good idea. Plus, a woman could meet a leader husband in college. I don’t see a problem with this idea, as long as she does it debt free.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        My school lunches aren’t free. Did they used to be? Yes. Look up the guidelines for a family of 4. I am not exactly working at Walmart.

        Women project so much, that it is farcical… FFS. My only problem is that I am irritated that the lunch that I would pay for anyway isn’t adequate to feed the hamster that writes your comments, let alone my kids. I work OT and accepted the second job that I started because it is a “social” type job, not the management job that I have 45 hours a week.

        Once again for the benefit of EVERYONE: I do NOT qualify for Free/Reduced, maybe I was misguided in bringing atttention to the subject because I pity the “herd”.

        I *desire* a traditional familial model where this household has a more qualified leader…and by that, I mean a male. And, NO, I do not *require* a male to run my house, but it is a lovely thought to have a break from the rat race.

        Oh, and just so we are clear, I am not some fat chick with a keyboard who needs to hit the gym and wishes her husband would even bother to give her a proper ‘seeing to’ or that I have any sort of lack of offers from the provider-types and white knights…

        So for all you invisible men out there, and all you women who bettered your lives by moving back in with your parents and then “settling” with the “right” man and rejecting sex…

        You are doing it wrong.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Please do not misunderstand, because my question has no adverse overtones at all. When did you come to the realizations you state in the above comment? Were you thinking along these lines when you co-produced three daughters? Or is this all something you’ve decided to be the’ right way’ afterwards?

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Dr. Kandar? Are you asking me?

      • ladysadie1 says:

        oops, sorry…Dr. Kadar :)

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Woo –

        If I strike you as the wrung out dish-rag you describe, I have bee woefully remiss in my statements. A quiet, tame, silent, controlled woman is of no use to a man. My statements show that this is not my mindset.

        Introspection, which most women lack is the key. Why are you fighting so hard against allowing women their right to submission?

        I assure you I am no “cunt” useful or otherwise…

      • A.B. Dada says:

        A woman who has lived irresponsibly and allowed her thyroid to self destruct will never understand the beauty of embracing her soft, adoring feminine side, Sadie.

        Wooo is one of many such women. She’s an example to share with your daughters someday as to why eating healthy and taking pride in their feminine natures is so important. If they do what modern society demands, ie gender equality in every area, they may end up sacrificing their ability to be happy.

        I would never expect to lead my dame in the areas that she is strongest in. I defer those responsibilities to a woman, since I am incapable of handling them efficiently.

        These hormonally-imbalanced types are pretty frightening, but such is modern living.

      • Galina L. says:

        @ladysadie1,

        So you think you know all? What made you think I lived in a basement? Why did you assume my mom watched my children? It is difficult to communicate with you because you immediately built some non-existing picture in your head. I am from a different country, people there didn’t lived in big houses with basements, we all worked, males and females. Families rarely had more than one child. Before the disintegration of the country we didn’t have a property rights on our apartments. To rent an apartment from a regular salary was impossible, it was too expensive and not common, extended families lived together. When I got married I went to live with my husband’s family, it was the norm. We lived all in one apartment consisted of 4 rooms , kitchen, water-closet and a bathroom, given by government to his family – his mother, grandma, young brother and us. I didn’t have children in mine first marriage. After the divorce I went to live to my mom, the other option by law would be to request from my former husband family to exchange their app. on a smaller one and one studio-style for me. I had no children then. I choose not to heart his family.
        I was never fully supported by anyone while living in Russia, at the time when I got divorced, I worked as a lubricant engineer, then a date-base programmer. When I met my second husband, he came to live with me and my mom because it was more close to his job and it was how people lived in my country. Alternative would be me leaving with his family. As a scientist, he earned very little ,almost twice less than me, and after he went to Canada for one-year long Post-Doc position while I was pregnant , he decided to stay there. All formalities took so long that my son was almost 3 years old by the time we arrived to Canada, my husband never saw him before.
        Please, don’t replay on my comments, I think you are full of negative prejudgments, and I own you no explanations. What I just said in my comment is more than enough. You are not in a position to request from people explanations. I will not continue communicating with you.

      • Galina L. says:

        Ok, Sadie,
        Tell me the number of your budget, and I will tell you how to stretch your money.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        We both believe each other to be judgmental… I don’t doubt that both of us have colored our response to each other based on personal experiences. Cultural differences can make things very difficult on the internet.

        Let’s both stop and think for a minute that we have common ground, please. I meant no ill will towards you, and ( I hope) you had none towards me. A simple misunderstanding, and active exchange of ideas rum amok because of cultural differences.

        Your point of view is very valuable to me, if/when we know each other in a more complete way, we would understand each other and there would be no active discord.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Anger? That’s attractive. Not hardly in my case… I have plenty of reasons to be angry. Just take a step back and see that no matter how we deserve equality in the workplace (that the government has forced us into) there is great comfort in being enjoyed at home, in private and being appreciated and respected by a man.

        Dada is no king, Richard is no king. (Except for the food porn and nutritional advice, luv, darling, luv)

        Jeez, I am not here to provide sexual release…if I was, you would pay me for the honor of reading my comments. Stop and think why are you throwing so much HATE at me?

        Oh, and re-read what I have said, I make enough $ to pay for this, I am just annoyed at the extra work it takes to run things smoothly…why the hell (after I have stated that this is NOT the case) do you think a “SingleMom(TM) is completely incapable of providing? And furthermore, why am I a lesser-person in your eyes if I wish to have a traditional family?

      • Galina L. says:

        Living in a different culture gave me a lot of other experiences how to live independently from modern things . I know how to wash my hair with soap alone and make it looked like I used a normal hair product, how to wash clothes without washing machine, I did it for years, how to live without eating pre-made food and to be very creative with whatever budget and food choices I have. My family lived on $26 000 yearly income in a very expensive city (Vancouver, BC) without cutting on the quality of food, but I was able to cook food from a scratch since 10 years old.
        Really, I can help your with ideas how to stretch your food budget if you give me more details about your main problems..

      • “You’re on this blog complaining about marxism, but at the same time, bemoaning that your free school lunch doesn’t have protein. Dada and the rest would point out you aren’t entitled to a free lunch. That’s socialist/marxis.”

        PUBLIC SCHOOLS are what’s socialist and marxist. In the first place. But given that they exist there is no inherent contradiction in demanding they do things “right” (such as is possible). Like, teach the kids to read, to think critically, etc. And feed them properly, given they’re there all day.

        Many have pointed out, myself included, the pretty decent quality of the food when I was in elementary in the latter half of the 60s. Today, they spend way more on public education and the kids get processed crap in a bag. Why? Probably because about half the education budget goes to top-heavy administration bureaucracy that never existed on such scale before (at least here in CA).

        This isn’t the first time I’ve blogged about this. Here, compare the lunches served here in America with school lunches in France.

        http://freetheanimal.com/2010/02/its-the-crap-just-eat-real-food.html

      • Galina L. says:

        I also want to add , Sadie, the most important thing for you to do is making sure your girls are taught how to prepare everyday food from simple ingredients without spending too much time and money in the process. I allow Richard to release my e-mail to you he supposes to know from my profile. Your girls and you are welcome to ask me questions any time about food preparation. Since a very young age it was my responsibility to make evening meal for my parents on work days because they both worked. I still enjoy benefits from such experience. If they know how to cook,they will figure out what food to bring from home in order to supplement deficient school meals. Even the addition of baked chicken drumstick to what they are given would make a difference. Keeping salt, olive oil, dressing, even Ranch in a lunch box could be a good idea. If chicken is cooked evening before, spent night in a fridge, several hours in a lunch box, it would be safe to eat 100%. For simple cooking made sure you have for your girls toaster oven and especially a Foreman grill with adjustable heating. I recommend the one from K-mart (Ramsey brand).
        I am just curious, how could you think I was judgmental about your life?

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Galina,

        Thank you. I am coming off of a monstrously difficult week. Kids’ first full week of school, workplace crawling with government minions writing up stacks of citations for non-compliance…add another helping of self-pity and you get the idea. Sorry for being harsh or defensive, I can see now that you are really trying to help out.

        As for food, the girls have been preparing much of their food since long before I knew Paleo wasn’t just a word in a history book. Mattie, far and away, is the best chef in the bunch. I think I commented on it earlier, but we do much of our cooking on the weekends and freeze things to use later. We did chicken legs last weekend, and it was the meat off of a couple of those grilled drumsticks that got Mattie reprimanded for “too much meat”.

        We use our foreman grill when it is too cold outside to use the big grill and smoker. One thing that I would like to mention that has been a great flavor enhancer, cost saver and is now one of my favorite appliances, is the juicer. We juice things to use as marinade, juice things to use as sauce bases, and we have also discovered a nifty trick with store bought juices vs. fresh…frozen juice concentrates don’t really taste all that good, so we juice one or two pieces of actual fruit and add that fresh juice to the frozen stuff, and that makes the whole pitcher taste like fresh. (Oh, watch the labels on the concentrate, most of it has HFCS, but sometimes “off brands” don’t.)

        Honestly, the rant about school lunches was just born out of frustration at having yet another thing to do. I am not trying to be Marxist, Socialist, Fascist or any of the other -ists that folks have talked about here. Nothing of the sort, in fact, I just wish it would all go away. The taxes, the increasingly stupid regulations, the forced purchase of insurance, licenses…if someone can throw the switch and shut it all off, please do.

        Sorry again for misconstruing your comments.

      • Galina L. says:

        Now I remember reading about smoker and too much meat at lunch. I understand how people could be too stressed-out. I don’t know is it a comfort or not , but US is still one of few countries the easiest to live in even though there are plenty of mind-boggling things around. I observed even worse things in my own country, however no one interfered into our food choices, more often we had not enough to choose from. I am not complaining or appealing to be patriotic. Just talking.
        From my experience dealing with government stupidity – pretend you are follow it while doing what you think is right(like wrapping lettuce around meat, cover surface of stew with veggies). You can fight, but for a very busy person it may take too much time and energy you need for other things. If there are more things to do – delegate more to your three girls. If they cook, they figure out what to do about lunches, gradually take it from the list of your responsibilities, just keep an eye on things to be sure you know what is going on. I think juicing is overrated, could be overdone, but actually I don’t want to go into small details. Good luck.

      • “From my experience dealing with government stupidity – pretend you are follow it while doing what you think is right”

        Sage, Galina.

        Give me the rulebook. I do not care who made the rules. I only need to know what I can influence, change, or work around.

        When I dropped the “Be a good productive member of society” and “Law abiding citizen” labels and decided to hold myself to my own ethic I became free. Most often that does not put me at odds with the Law of the Land nor any of my fellow countrymen. When it does I try to understand the consequence and prepare for the worst possible outcome. Then I do what I want as quietly as possible.

        There is a large large world out there that many do not understand. Many have no knowledge of. Being able to go down the rabbit hole exposes you to all of it.

        Oddly, that “shadow” world only exists on the poor end of the economic spectrum and the ultra rich end. The middle is without possibility. To much ego and image attachment to play in on the low end and not enough money/power to play on the rich side.

        So, they must stay and play with those that govern them.

      • Sadie & Galina: I’m so glad we’re on the same page again!! Seriously! This is why it’s good to have “friends” in order to get those frustrations out that wear us down until we have no choice but to gripe a bit, regain strength, and carry on the best we can. I think it’s more of a female trait to be more open about these struggles.

        Galina, I know from my family who immigrated from Poland right at the time of Bolshevik war when there was extreme pressure to join or fight the Red Army, how life was/is so incredibly different and difficult. Then they get to the US as children and are hit with a Depression. It’s hard for us here in the US to appreciate the extreme struggles that went on in our history (certainly as you can see by those expecting entitlements and think our rosy way of life cannot possibly come to an end). I can only say that I am so proud of my family for being so strong and enduring so much.

        I used to think that I never wanted to live like them who saved everything from tinfoil to used plastic containers, shopped at garage sales, and never drove a new car. So, I got an education, a great job, a big house, an expensive car, etc., and then…a realization dawned. I began to realize the whys of everything they did. I began to realize that those golden handcuffs were imprisoning me and my family. I began to realize the “middle-class” only funnels money to the wealthy and the poor. I realize that I am working 70 hours/week to pay for others, who now have the luxury to care for their parents while I do not get to enjoy my children. I truly wish now my elders were still around to tell me all their stories to make up for my lost time when I was such a bratty-bitch and never cared.

        I predict that the US will come upon those hard times again. I also predict that there will be those who will be spiritually, mentally, physically, and financially ready to tackle and survive these times. I unfortunately predict that there will be a massive amount of the population who will not be able to figure out how to cope with waking and facing a day without adequate quantities of food (let alone nutritious), cellphones, Internet, tv, Starbucks, pharmaceuticals, etc. I predict these will be tough revolutionary-making times.

        So, I look to you, Galina, and to moms like Sadie who live life with great thought and a desire for freedom to help guide and change anyone who cares. By telling your stories – both past and present, you are opening eyes to anyone who cares to learn (and hopefully, there are more of those who care than more of those who were how I was when I was a bratty-bitch 20 year old). You (OR OUR CHILDREN) will be who I will want to seek out to get through these times.

        Richard posted the lunch story (correct me if I’m wrong) because every day, slowly, but surely, one more freedom is taken away; one more restriction is placed upon our lives; one more encroaching know-it-all asshole is trying to tell us to change the way we are because their way is obviously the better way; until one day, we have no freedoms left.

        And then we immigrate where?

        Sadie, your troubles are not unique, but telling your story in a public forum is, so thanks for that courage. Because of that, you and Richard will have helped at least one other person who can make necessary changes to strengthen their life. Your difficulty is not that you can’t handle the situation you’re in – because you can – it’s because you’re surrounded by assholes who are too blind to notice or care. I’ll tell you, that I care.

      • JScott – You observed and stated what I learned – “The middle is without possibility” – and since I will never be uber-wealthy, I more easily desire being rich in life rather than rich in wealth.

        Though I must say it was nice having money to buy some things and get set up in life, then scale it way back to a much poorer standard (like AB being uber-rich, but living in a ghetto – not many people would understand why he made that choice).

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Shelley, thank you for your thoughtful analysis. You are spot on.

      • Galina L. says:

        Shelley,
        I also prefer piece to confrontation, and internet indeed could give a one-sided impression.
        About all things going wrong…On one hand, no one knows what is in a future and it is a popular sentiment in human societies to expect some collapse, complain that all youngsters became maroons, on another hand, things get change all the time and often in order for some changes to happen troubles have to reach intolerable level, like a pressure in a pimple. Also, when some troubles got resolved, people quickly forget about bad things in a past because it is in a human nature to get used to good things pretty fast. Shortly, life is going on , nothing stays the same, there is hardly a negative or a positive direction in a summery because negatives and positives oscillate I guess.
        I went through difficult times and observed others who were in a similar situation. I noticed that people have an amazing potential to be mobilized by troubles at unbelievable degree, but comfortable life makes people soft, it may look bad, but it is just how our mother nature works – only a necessity makes people harder. Only a working muscle stays strong. People who successfully went through troubles are not special or heroes, the Nature keeps under a look their hidden reserves in stable times , but troubled times carry the special key. Important thing in order to be prepared- keeping a good health. I am on a soft side right now, because my life is at an easy stage, but I know by my experience how quickly mobilization occurs when need arises. I am in a very good physical shape. When my husband left Russia I was 7 month pregnant, by the time when my son was born the real economic collapse in my country began, there were empty shelves in stores, rapid inflation made all savings disappear, many people planted potatoes on random plots of land, salaries were worth nothing but people continued to go to work in hope that someday everything will level out.(and it did) During that time I was in the charge of the survival of myself, my son, mom and grandma.I managed. I thought I could go through a wall if necessary. I don’t feel it right now. My reserves are under a key, but I know it is there and are not afraid of any future.

        @Sadie, have no doubt, you will manage, the best part – for the rest of your life you will be proud to remember how you went through obstacles, you girls will tell their children about your successful struggle. Having no one next to you for the support makes Nature to release more power from hidden reserves to you. Nature is on your side. I hope no one will take what I said as a feminist propaganda. I am not for an avoiding a reliance on a man. I am for a believe in own potential in all situations in life. Being single is just one out many possible situations. Only the right guy helps, the wrong one complicates survival.

      • Galina L. says:

        Jscott,
        It all depends. With school lunches I think there are three possibilities:
        1) Mask the “wrong food”;
        2) Explain politely that a parent calculated the daily intake of nutrients on a Fitday.com or even an official government site, offer to bring the calculation(no one would be interested to look at print-out tables), and the meal looks like it is too much protein because it is the main mail of the day, family eats only salad for a dinner for healthy reasons.
        3) Don’t forget to write letters with polite complains. It is often contr-productive to show emotions, it may negatively affect credibility.

        Which rules affect you the most? I am afraid to help people with medical issues even though I can do many small things like injections, acupressure treatment, I have some old time remedies at home, treat my family with all that, but are afraid to help strangers, except a pressure points treatment. I guess, there is no way around it.

      • Huh? No.

      • Why would anyone reject sex? From their partner I mean :D Do people really do that? I can’t get enough of it, is their something wrong with me? Lucky for me I guess that my Husband is always ready too. Must be our primally fueled libidos.

        Sadie, I have packed my kids paleo lunches for the past two years. It’s a lot of work, and I couldn’t imagine how difficult it would be on top of working two jobs. I mostly do leftovers like sweet potato meatloaf or chicken legs and carrots and celery. Sometimes I do deep fried coconut flour chicken nuggets, or a couple boiled eggs again with celery and carrots or bell peppers. I always pack a fruit bowl too with oranges, apples, grapes, berries or other fruits if they are on sale. We can get pretty inventive on a friday when we are out of groceries and waiting on the next paycheck. They don’t do school lunches here in Ireland, so all the kids bring their own food. In the past, my kids have been teased for the food they bring, but it may be because they told the other kids that the shit they were eating was, well, shit. Do your kids deal with this also?

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Yes, Grace, the kids do take some flak for their lunches sometimes, but mostly, it’s more like, “can I have some” or “ewww, what is that?” followed by, “can I taste it?” We are also a little on the ‘-ish’ side of paleo, so there are just enough grains (gluten free) here and there that with the younger ones, their friends don’t notice as much. Only the older one complains (just got to Jr. High) so I let her go hog wild with the grains… “Sure, Princess, take a big, fat sandwich so your friends don’t hassle you.” Haha, lasted two days of feeling like utter shit and she decided that it wasn’t worth it.

      • “but it may be because they told the other kids that the shit they were eating was, well, shit.”

        Teach up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

        Translation: keep calling shit, well, shit.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Yes, true. All true, I just have to prove everything to Skyler now…ahh, the teenage years, woo hoo.

        Did you read your Dr. Seuss poem yet?

      • “Did you read your Dr. Seuss poem yet?”

        Hey, I’m just coming home from war! :)

        I will get to it. Instanter.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Oh, you were at war today, too? Must be something in the air. Hope the silliness helps you forget today’s skirmishes!

      • Well I’m not about to call it roses, but I do wonder sometimes. I mean, I want this to be important to them too, although they know why we eat like this, they know what eating shit does to your body, they will still eat crap whenever they get the chance. Maybe I’m expecting too much from a 8 and 7 year old. I suppose I probably am. I will do my best to give them the information and show them how to put it to use, but at the end of the day, it’s up to them. I’m just glad we’re not having to deal with what Sadie deals with. I home-schooled my boys until we moved to Ireland because honestly, American schools terrify me. The indoctrination that goes on and the taking away of parents rights, there is no way I could do it. I feel for you Sadie I really do.

  7. I must be missing something here – I was under the impression from your FB post yesterday that her middle daughter had been reprimanded/her lunch confiscated because there was “too much meat”?

    None of my kids ever bought their lunch, even though we qualified for the free lunch program. I wouldn’t have taken advantage of it anyway, but school food has always been disgusting. Now it sounds as if it’s not only disgusting, but practically non-existent.

    You might be interested to know that if some schools have their way, you won’t be able to pack your kid(s) a lunch at all. Apparently having a sack lunch sit in a locker/cubby hole, unrefrigerated, for a few hours is a health hazard.

    • “I must be missing something here – I was under the impression from your FB post yesterday that her middle daughter had been reprimanded/her lunch confiscated because there was “too much meat”?”

      Direct quote from yesterday is in the post. So yea, you might be missing something.

      • I don’t know and didn’t say that it was confiscated. I doubt it was confiscated. That would have been a whole other level of outrage.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Clarification: Not confiscated, just a mild reprimand. The girls are at volleyball now so I don’t have any details about the lunch today. I will update when I have the information.

      • Ah, I see you made it bold; thank you. My eyesight must be worse than I thought in my old age…

  8. Wow. Just…wow! Fortunately my children are grown, but when grandkids come along, if, for some bizarre reason, mom and dad can’t pack them a good lunch, grandma sure as hell will!

  9. Shit. My 3yr old takes 2 bbq’d chicken drumsticks to DAYCARE for lunch often. It’s one of her favourite meals! She’s all of 42lbs. Some fruit and veg, maybe a greek yogourt with berries… full fat milk and a snack like seasnax/seaweed or something. Standard food I send her with. Wonder what that lunch nazi would make of that lunch. lol

    • Shane

      My dad can tell you stories. He was unique amongst his 5 siblings is that he was off visiting his grandparents for the summer, during WWII, in the east. Germany. All was hunky dory, but when the war ended and the allies stepped in for those in the west, the Russian soldiers raped his 16-yr-old cousin and in general, didn’t give a shit about the humanity at all.

      He was starving when he should have been growing.

      It took my grandmother Selma Nikoley (bless her wonderful soul) three years of red tape and whatever she went through to get her son out of there, afte the war.

      He was severely malnourished and had to spend three months in a home where they fed the kids a lot of food to help them. My dad is the 2nd oldest male sibling, the shortest of all of them. If you look at his hands and torso, he was designed to be 4-6 inches taller, as are his better fed brothers.

      • Lute Nikoley says:

        Thanks for that. I might want to add, my grandmother who lived to age 96, did the best she could during those time in E. Germany to keep us all alive. Now? I think even though I am the shortest of my brothers (I think my only sister is slightly shorter than me), I think I am one of the healthiest.

  10. My daughter just entered middle school and has never eaten a school lunch. Over the summer she began murmuring that she’d like to buy lunch, as her friends do, to avoid standing out. Since she’s always made good choices I decided to play along. During dinner on her first day of school she said informed me that changed her mind. Asked why, she replied “not enough food!!!” Phew.

    • Elyse

      Pat yourself on the back. You know why. And, BTW, wonderful. You probably taught her more than just about food and being hungry. Now she knows who has her back and who just wants her mind, if they can manage to keep it impotent enough.

  11. Home schooling or private schools. A government education is designed to educate you to follow the rules of the government, period.

    • Public school is largely designed for an agrarian proletariat with voting rights. That is changing. But very slowly. Beatrice just got tapped for such an experiment this year. I was over there yesterday. Paperless, with laptops, Internet connections and an projection whiteboard.

      It’s not ideal in my mind, but I welcome improvement.

  12. Just another reason on my huge list of reasons for homeschooling… People think I’m crazy or weird but I don’t care, they look at me crazy when I buy bacon in bulk as well :)

  13. When I was a kid none of the schools served breakfast, they only did lunch. I don’t really see the point of the school making breakfast, the kid is coming from home to school, just eat breakfast before leaving home.

    So they should cut out breakfast altogether. That solves the breakfast problem, leaving us with just lunch to deal with.

    We used to smash open coconuts during recess by repeatedly throwing them against a wall, let the kids do some foraging during physical education.

    • Shelley says:

      My son eats breakfast (eggs, bacon, raw milk, etc) at home and then goes to the school breakfast in order to eat pancakes loaded with syrup. Ugh.

    • Pablito says:

      Um, the reason breakfast is served now is that many kids don’t get any breakfast or maybe just a Coke. Whether poverty, bad parenting, or harried mothering, it’s a fact. Having a breakfast (not getting into the quality of it!) helps students be better students.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Yeah the insulin response from the corn syrup and the ADHd-enduring gut perforation is really healthy for growing minds and bodies.

        If parent can’t afford to feed their kids a solid, real food breakfast, something is wrong with the parent. I live in a ghetto, and I see what qualifies for food stamps — and you can redeem Illinois welfare at Whole Foods. No excuse.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        From what I see, over up here in the great white north, a lot of these people, based on the contents of their shopping carts at month’s end when the cheques arrive, either do not know how to cook, don’t want to cook or don’t want to learn. The carts are piled high with huge bags of various chips (corn, potato and other), pre-packaged megacorp multichem flavour enhanced low quality junk, cases of soda pop, cases of juice drinks and the occasional bit of raw meat and enhanced with sugar dairy. Seems they want the biggest bang (of some sort) for their bucks.

        I’ve seen what their kids eat for lunch break (brought from home) and it makes the school lunches described above look nutritious.

      • Feeding children is the parents’ responsibility, not the state’s.

      • Pablito says:

        So, if the parent(s) fail in his/her job, make the child suffer? Both in the immediate (hunger) and in the long haul (poorly educated).

        This blog is rife with people constantly railing against “the state.” Anarchists, Randists, libertarians, the usual batch of easily misled.

        Let’s look at working together from an evolutionary viewpoint. Just as we Paleo’s point out to vegetarians and vegans that there is no record of any H-G or primitive population that ate with those standards, there is no record of any H-G or primitive population that were hermits, anarchists, libertarians, or anything of similar mindset.

        We survived as a species because we helped one another. Every individual’s first responsibility was to The People. It’s as simple as that. Rampant individualism is a very new concept and philosophy. Surely, if it was so great, homo sapiens would have used it already, no?

        Reuben Snake, the great Winnebago Medicine Man, said: “The elders told us that this is the road of life that we’re walking down. We’re supposed to be holding up one another, supporting each other, having our arm underneath our brother’s arms while walking down the road of life.”

        Was he wrong? Were our several millions of years of ancestors wrong? If anthropology is good enough to understand diet, why not sociology? And hence, politics.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Yes, Pablito — if the parents fail, the child must suffer.

        Suffering is, without a doubt, the greatest facet of human nature that propels us to success. We differ from the animal kingdom here more than almost anywhere else. Human nature drives the suffering to either success, or abject failures.

        If you restrain one’s ability to suffer, you also restrain that which pushes some to greatness.

        The more that the State provides now, the greater the suffering will be later as people fail to make plans necessary to provide for their own lives without the one-size-fits-all fake nest egg.

        What will happen if/when Social Security fails or reduces payouts? What will happen to people counting on Medicare in 20 years?

        If you know failure is possible, that pain and suffering is possible, the lesson is: save, eat healthy, live with less, be responsible for yourself.

        Do not tell me that there are millions of children going hungry in the United States. I refuse to believe this. What I believe is that your government, and you sick voters, are giving people just enough that they ignore their own responsibilities to themselves.

        Or, as I say: It takes a community to tase a child. It takes a family to raise one.

      • Shelley says:

        Pablito: “the usual batch of easily misled” – I don’t get that comment at all.

        As per your railing against the “state” – yes, I rail against the state in many cases. They are too far removed from problems to be of any beneficial solution.

        However, you’re wrong in that most “Anarchists, Randists, libertarians, the usual batch of easily misled” are all individualists and turn their backs on those who need help. In fact, I think A.B. just offered up some hard-earned cash! There is no reason to not help those kids whose parents won’t or can’t sufficiently provide for their children. Heck, there was a few years in my young life when my mother needed all the help she could get so that her kids stayed fed. The point is, though, I think the help should come in the following order from most to least relevant: 1) family; 2) friends; 3) church; 4) community; 5) state; 6) THEN the federal government.

        You must know though that there is just no helping some people and that includes kids. Life is tough and never fair.

      • Shelley says:

        Very nicely said, A.B.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Nice points, Pablito.
        I actually alluded to this in the letter that I wrote to Richard here:

        ” This isn’t about my kids; it’s about everyone’s kids. This so diabolical that it seems like the goal is to stunt people’s growth and add to keeping them dumbed down.”

        and here:

        “Sadly, many families count on their kids getting that free meal, so what the hell are they supposed to do? I’m all for thinning the herd, but the slow, weak and stupid generally do a great job of taking themselves out of the equation and I don’t think that it’s necessary to intentionally starve innocent children.”

        To that I should add: ‘…because their parents are too lazy, broke or uneducated to feed them properly.’ The lunch issue is wrong on so many levels that one person can’t possibly articulate them all, but the crowd here is doing a fine job of covering what I missed.

      • Pablito says:

        “if the parents fail, the child must suffer.”

        I’m speechless. Well, almost. Would you want to be that child, presumably innocent in his/her suffering? Huh? With your growling belly, age 7, telling you that this pain is good for you?

        You confuse adversity with suffering as character building. The former builds, the latter tears down a healthy personality even after the suffering has passed. “I suffered, therefore YOU will suffer!”

        You are beneath contempt as an alleged human being.

      • Shelley says:

        Pablito – my parents failed (in particular, my father, but my mother too for marrying the jerk), and my brothers and I “suffered.” We were hungry – ironically, my mom worked in the school cafeteria just so she could eat something for the day.

        But guess what!!!! I thank them every day for teaching me to overcome adversity; to overcome not expecting entitlements; to overcome not being scared of hard work; to overcome making the same stupid mistakes they made.

        A.B. didn’t say the kids died – he said they suffered. There’s a big difference there.

      • Shelley says:

        And I think adversity is by far the best character building exercise there is – you either learn to sink or swim.

        Pablito, you seem like an apologist who grew up having a pretty cushy life. Maybe you should try suffering a bit and realize your greater potential. :-)

      • ladysadie1 says:

        From Annie at Morning Joy Farms: “Per the Feeding America website,
        According to the USDA, over 16 million children lived in food insecure (low food security and very low food security) households in 2010.
        We have 16 million children in this country who don’t know where their next meal is coming from, but we’re going to limit their food intake at school? The only hot meal some of them will get in a day?”

        That is from the blog link I referenced in the first paragraph of my letter to Richard.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I don’t care about the masses, Pablito.

        Show me an individual, ANY individual, in your community, who is starving. Bring them to me.

        I will help them if they ask. Then, I will admonish you for NOT helping them yourself.

        This all starts with you and one individual.

        What the fuck are you doing to help? Do you know the last names of all your neighbors? Do you know the names of their kids? Do you spend time interacting with all of them to make sure they’re well fed, have a good concept of healthy living?

        No? I do. Every week, sometimes every day. If I see an old person on the street in my ghetto neighborhood, I talk to them, ask them if they want to come by my place for coffee or an omelet. I let neighborhood kids earn a few bucks sweeping up or washing my windows.

        What are you doing? Nothing?

        GFY. Anally, preferably.

      • Pablito says:

        As I later posted, suffering is not adversity.

      • Pablito says:

        Beat you to it, reamed asshole.

        Been doing that in one way or another most of my life.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Society needs more suffering. I welcome it, we desperately need it.

        People who don’t save for retirement and rely on government checks need to suffer so we have examples to make. “Don’t be like grandma, having to eat canned spam because she didn’t save.”

        People who accept government loans for school need to suffer with all that debt so we can make examples of them.

        People who rely on food stamps and don’t focus on learning a trade need to suffer, so that those who DO learn a trade and upgrade their lives can be held up as positive examples of hard work, personal responsibility, etc.

        People who rely on government healthcare need to have waiting periods and detrimental health so we can use them as examples for healthier living and switching to cash doctors (AAPS is my recommended resource for finding cash discount medical care).

        We need examples of suffering, including children. This is how people earn their reward for living responsibly. This is how certain children will rise up from poverty and bad parenting to hopefully not pass on that life to their own kids.

        More suffering, I say. Let the voters reap what they sow. Let they reap the pain, poverty, suffering and shame that comes with forcing others to provide for you, against their will.

      • Pablito

        H-Gs are anarchist by definition. The state is a Neolithic invention. That does not prevent them from operating communally.

        Anarchy begins at home, as I always say. It’s not about forcefully rising up against the state. It’s about ignoring it and doing without it in every way possible. Just let it fade away over time just like every other obsolete idea based on the domination of others.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Both of you are part of the solution as far as helping others. Now stop throwing rocks at each other, please.

        I would guess that most of us here help others to the best of our ability. The main point here is that The Government is not here to help us. Indeed, this lunch program, among other things, is proof positive that “they” in fact want to do the opposite.

      • Pablito says:

        Yes, the state came with neolithic agriculture. But for that reason, it is where we are at. For most of neolithic time, the state existed to maintain the power of the few on the top of the heap.

        Here in the US, it was the New Deal, more than any other movement, that successfully moved some of that power back to the many instead of the few. Europe generally, and Scandinavian in particular, are of course at the forefront of those changes.

        There is no way we could exist as a mostly fed and peacable society with a population of over 300 million if not for that abhored state. Feudalism would be the result; that works real well in Somalia, right?

      • Pablito says:

        Shelley, my life is pretty well typical middle class. A lot of benefits, for sure. I’ve suffered my own financial adversities, thank you very much.

        I’m 66, I’ve dedicated the last five years to taking care of my parents, first my father dying of cancer, then my mother now with dementia. I uprooted my life, I have had no ability to get other employment because of care I give.

        Thank you, FDR, for making my life a whole lot better than what these idiots think is better for me.

      • Shelley says:

        Pablito – I’m sorry to hear about your parents and I know that they are thankful to have you there helping. You are suffering from that, I’m sure.

        But, to be painfully honest, it is not my responsibility to work long hours, try to save some money for retirement, feed my kids, pay the bills AND provide you with my tax money because you needed to uproot.

        I’ve always admired the Asian community for doing just what you are doing without question. I lived around Asian families that would have at least 3 generations, but sometimes 4, living in one home. The parents working (a lot), the grandparents caring for the kids, the kids getting an education. It is truly something that I wish was more ingrained in our culture. I have no idea whether or not they got handouts, but I would guess they wouldn’t want it.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Shelley:

        In Chicago’s Vietnamese community, they basically segregated themselves on purpose to give their younger generations a better chance at success, and they take care of their eldery really well outside of government allotments.

        My friend growing up went to college (he’s Vietnamese) and his neighbors helped pay for it so he had no debt. He was introduced to a few Vietnamese girls from good families, he dated them all and chose one for marriage. His wedding was paid for by neighbors and friends of family. His first house was basically paid for the same way, partially through his savings, partially through family, partially through “community.”

        He’s about 40 now, and he’s passing on a good portion of his own income to help the new generation of neighbors’ kids.

        It’s an amazing culture. If a kid doesn’t work hard, the community seems to openly ostracize the kid until he accepts the community standards. They don’t do this through government force, but through shame. And the community is vibrant through individual selection of choices.

      • Not interested in telling anyone what to do. Not interested in stealing from the rich to give to the poor (New Deal), or any other such Cannibal Pot Histionics (who goes in the pot, who gets to feast).

        “Feudalism would be the result; that works real well in Somalia, right?”

        By “feudalism” are you implying “feuding?”

        As for Somalia, you need to get yourself up to date and look into recent World Bank research on anarchistic economic development. I mean, if you’re interested in facts, that is. I have.

      • “Thank you, FDR, for making my life a whole lot better than what these idiots think is better for me.”

        It natural, I suppose, to thank the thief, and not the victims he stole from against their will to give to you.

      • Shelley says:

        “It natural, I suppose, to thank the thief, and not the victims he stole from against their will to give to you.”

        clap, clap, clap

      • Shelley says:

        “If a kid doesn’t work hard, the community seems to openly ostracize the kid until he accepts the community standards. They don’t do this through government force, but through shame.”

        Just a guess, but I would think this is how ancient HG tribes behaved as well.

      • “I’ve always admired the Asian community for doing just what you are doing without question. I lived around Asian families that would have at least 3 generations, but sometimes 4, living in one home. The parents working (a lot), the grandparents caring for the kids, the kids getting an education. It is truly something that I wish was more ingrained in our culture. I have no idea whether or not they got handouts, but I would guess they wouldn’t want it.”

        You admire anarchism in a familial/communal setting?

        Bite your tongue, woman.

        Now where is FDR when you need him.

      • Oh no, more anarchism, and Vietnamese to boot.

        By all that is sacred, please get “Obamney” is their to force help on them from the pockets of those outside the community. They’ll get used to it in no time.

        There, problem fixed. Now they’re dependents just like everyone else and Obamney’s VMV (vote market value) skyrockets.

      • Shelley says:

        I don’t know if it’s an anarchism communal setting or not; it just seems to work well in their favor. Maybe there was an uber-strong great grandmother, who is the epitome of strength and everyone revered, silently nodding and giving the orders. :-) Now, it’s really time for government-intervention!

      • Anarchism is a spectrum, not an all or nothing. Anarchism begins in the mind as a sense of independence, and “I’ll take my chances.” it extends to home/families who are self sufficient, support each other, help and invest in each other (and it comes back to them). It can even extend then to wider communities as AB describes. None of it requires the state.

        It’s a degree of Anarchism worth applauding and promoting.

        I have no interest in violent state overthrow. I just want it to gradually go the way of the dinosaur by people re-evolving into self suffient, family and community supporting people.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        My fear, Richard, is that as SOME women start to realize the power of progesterone in rearing a family and “taming” the testosterone party in a relationship, the high status women will only want to become higher status to prove that feminist-Marxism “works”.

        I commented about it on Rollo’s new post:

        https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/girls-on-the-side/#comment-9368

        To put it simply, “Imagine a female Ben Bernanke.” You think society is bad now? Just wait until the manjaws take control of government and try to undermine the quiet women who truly do run the anarchist family world: the mothers and wives and grandmothers who maintain the matriarchal-side of the home.

        It’s going to be quite a war. Bloodless, indeed, but very very divisive.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Thanks for the definition. :)

      • Shelley says:

        “Anarchism begins in the mind as a sense of independence, and “I’ll take my chances.” it extends to home/families who are self sufficient, support each other, help and invest in each other”

        Oh, well by God, I guess I’m an anarchist! I would have never said that before. But this is exactly why I moved back to my little hometown – to help my family, now dwindling in size, and they in turn, help me.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Apropo Shelley, last week I re-read a book published in 1999: ‘All in the Family: A Cultural History of Family Life’ by Suanne Kelman. The subject of multigenerational homes was presented. Even these families prefer to live as a nuclear family when the opportunity exists. Multigenerational homes have their share of problems. Furthermore the Hillary Clinton expression “It takes a village to raise a child” has actually been disproved. It takes a family preferably a nuclear family where resources are allocated to the members of that family.

        Where I’m having some concerns in regards to the statements made by some people here, is do Americans want to see the daily removal of dead bodies from the streets as happens in places like India? In many high population ‘developing’ nations, beggars with missing limbs, huge cancerous facial growths and such are everywhere along busy city streets. However they ended up like that is not really the point and it’s not necessarily because they were sub-functional before. But since medical care and social support networks are not always in place, these people end up like this.

        I did my ‘third world’ stint for 2.5 years in a country where I daily witnessed gruesomely disfigured and disabled beggers. Not to mention also treated some of the outrageous infections the people who had no resources or inadequate education to prevent what happened to them. Removing dead chunks of bone from people’s faces in order to try to save them from losing more of their faces was a valuable experience to me because it was the sort of work I’d never be doing here in Toronto. But it was basically a godsend for these individuals.

        In Canada we have what American’s vilify as social medicine. There are problems with the system for sure but at least the scenes I witnessed abroad are not the norm here.

      • There you go, Shelly.

        Welcome. We’re very diverse and inclusive. Misogyny is a work in progress, though. :)

      • Shelley says:

        Dr. Kadar – kudos for doing your third-world stint; I don’t know if I could since I get queezy going through the El Paso / Juarez border.

        I don’t know why you think, though, that statements made are going to necessarily downgrade the US to a third-world country. (Though I think that can be easily accomplished once a real majority of Americans hand over all their thinking and rights.) However, I would put forth the opposite and say that the more Americans who are capable of thinking and living on their own through nothing more than their own will to succeed, is when you see the USA mature beyond any comparable level. The USA has historically been THE place to come when you’re living in a third-world country and realize that there is more out there because they know, if they want to and work hard enough, they will build a better life for them and their family.

        And, I also have Canadian family, who also think their system is the best on one-hand, but consistently complain how they’re being outrageously taxed while the infrastructure (especially around Montreal) is falling apart and they have to wait forever for any medical treatment. How they have let women go prior to them becoming pregnant because they didn’t want to pay the mandatory year salary, but the wife gleefully stating that she got 4 years paid for by her employer for having 4 kids! I’m not seeing any logical sense there.

      • Pablito says:

        The Rockefellers, Carnegies, Hearsts, et. al. that FDR “stole” from could afford it.

        Carnegie said, “To die rich is to die disgraced.”

        There isn’t an American alive who, either directly or through family, hasn’t benefited from SS, Medicare, Medicaid, or food assistance.

        Without this help, my mother would have by now died in a horrible scenario and I would be homeless and w/o any kind of healthcare other than the ER.

      • Pablito says:

        Shelley, with a lot of due respect, you are living in a myth. Like that of Western rugged individualism…….as they expected the Feds to clear the Indians, survey the territories, provide land for the railroads, and build dams and irrigation systems. It is America’s Great Myth. And it’s bullshit.

        Certainly some cultures are more self-reliant than others, but in the end, we are meant to take care of each other. Was the Winnebago medicine man I quoted wrong? Is Jesus?

        I paid taxes very willingly 44 years to help those less fortunate than me and the elderly. Not one bit of problem. Now, presuming you are working, I ask you to pay taxes to help me and my family.

        Even chimps and other homonids help each other. Sure, they fight, but they also work together and help each other. They grieve, they comfort, and they SHARE. Many other mammals, do, too.

      • Pablito I don’t care if another man’s offspring suffer or don’t suffer.

        They are not my children, why would I possibly have any interest in them absent some form of mental illness?

        The people who brought them into the world are responsible for the children, not me. In my experience what the parents of the children want from me is to leave their families the hell alone. Since I have no interest in them whatsoever, I am happy to oblige, and everyone is left perfectly content.

        Except for maybe the children who will know the suffering that all living creatures are subject to, but that’s on their parents, not on me.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I don’t talk to toxins that attack me.

        I don’t debate with thieves who steal from me and rape my wallet.

        I don’t enter the frame of a bad and terrible person who shifts their responsibilities onto me, because that gives them power.

        Pablito is what is wrong with this world. When you pay taxes, you are merely paying for government to bomb young children, incarcerate blacks for having an illegal plant, and indoctrinating the youth en masse. You are not paying for government to protect you or educate you or support you in sickness.

        Pablito’s parents led a life that did not include focusing on their health. I want photos of them in their 30s and 40s and 50s. I want to judge that which I am forced to support financially.

        Pablito also led such a life, I assume, I truly believe.

        If you debate such scum, such villainy, all you do it give them strength in their actions. Deny them and they will feel denial of their evil deeds.

        May many more suffer ill health, poverty, and loss of their one life to uselessness because they supported the tyrants.

        They are cretins, plebeians. They deserve nothing but to reap what they’ve sown.

      • Shelley says:

        Pablito, I don’t think I’m living a myth – I’m just living. I’m not saying you’re wrong; I’m saying Federal government should not be the solution. They give such a miniscule amount of my money to you, who paid into our lovely tax system and by their design you rightfully deserve, compared to the people who have never worked a day in their life!

        I still firmly stand by my previous statement that all help should come in the following order in accordance with their importance: Family, Friends, Church, Community, State, then Feds.

        Jesus preached to help those in need – he did not state to allow the ruling leaders to confiscate our earnings for their distribution.

      • Interesting article, AB. The post above your comment

        Not sure what in total to think. It’s kind of a foreign concept to see men chastising or shaming young women for unbridled promiscuity. Word is, that’s what all men want all women to be, except the one they marry.

        Perhaps you can elaborate.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Richard:

        My site I am dedicated to my opinions and hypotheses on paleogamy is going to delve deep into the science of the brain’s reward centers.

        I firmly believe that modern women are easily “picked up” by vulture PUAs because their reward centers are fucked up.

        Have a high quality donut or cake for your birthday once a year? Good reward. Have one daily? Bad reward, fucks up your reward centers.

        Watch a movie with explosions or sex maybe once a week or twice a month? Good reward. Fun! Watch 5 hours of TV every night with explosions or sex? Bad reward. Fucks up your reward centers.

        Save up your money for a strong nest egg, and then carefully use any excess to purchase a purse or shoes that can last you a lifetime? Good reward! Toss it on your Discover card at the shiny electronic mall every week? Bad reward.

        The reason that modern Western women are confused is because their reward centers of the brain are FUCKED. FUCKED FUCKED FUCKED.

        The same is true for most manchilds: video games, the explosive and sexual movie of the night, strong high flavor sodas mixed with potent low quality alcohol available in shot form for $3 x 15 of those a week, fast and cheap motorcycles, etc.

        Think about it carefully — this is my hypothesis, my opinion, but the more I investigate the 4H (hormonally-healthy hetero humans) who are successful AND happy, the more I see that they have their reward centers of the brain under control.

        Everyone else is an addict. Shame the addicts does nothing to help the addict, but it MAY help those who are not yet addicted.

      • Dr Kadar

        First, kudos for helping where you could.

        My wife and I have a whole lot of Indian friends, get invited to their parties, graduation ceremonies, etc. we recents had a family over where my wife was the 5th grade teacher over the years for all three of their sons and the last one was just graduating from college. We’ve had them to our vacation home many times, they cook Indian food for us (ME, because it’s my favorite!!!).

        But alas, they are here (Actually, the husband is from Pakistan, she from India, but their family culture is all about India and all their friends are from India), via a stint in the UK while Zahid was getting his degree. BTW, the first color screen on the iPod? His invention, along with about 19 other patented inventions while working for Philips and Nvidia (the founder of which was on the same floor in my college dorm at Oregon State).

        All of our Indian friends are high achieving software and hardware engineers, nice homes, and they are here, not there.

        Culture is a double edged sword. Looks like the Indian policy in past decades of courting the collapsed USSR had consequences.

        This has nothing to do with anarchism except that it’s in no way the anarchism I’m talking about. People rot and die in the streets because thier state is even more corrupt than the US. But don’t worry. It shouldn’t take but a couple of decades or so to catch up.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Quite a little “war on men” discussion over there at Rollo’s, AB! Let’s hope that it isn’t true that women will continue on that path. I prefer Richard’s hope that the government would just fall away.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Rollo is the de facto example of fine Red Pill theorizing for men who want to marry (although he warns them against it). Athol Kay does a great job, but he’s still a virtual newbie, and he’s an admitted “virgin” before marriage, which can be problematic for many guys.

      • “The Rockefellers, Carnegies, Hearsts, et. al. that FDR “stole” from could afford it.”

        Yea, might makes right. Got it. Here’s a simple fact for you that’s easy to verify. Go Google the total amount of their combined wealth at the point each was at its peak or they died. Use whichever is greatest because it’s not going to matter.

        Now tell me what percentage that was of total US, state and local tax receipts (or just use Federal, because it’s not going to matter) during the period.

        Next, feel a tinge of shame for comforting yourself, because over 95% of the largess of government you ever received was from average people.

        “Carnegie said, “To die rich is to die disgraced.””

        His ethic. So what? Do you think of me as some bromide whore, or what? Carnegie, if you’ll take note, gave away large portions of his money. Read that again: HIS money. So, nice conflation of charity and forceful taking. By the way, in order to draw a distinction between theft and taxation, do you know what the definition of taxation is? “A lawful taking.” that’s right. It’s taken, not asked for and the claim to fame is that the legal authority declared it legal, meaning, they can take, but you can’t.

        What a virtuous distinction to hang a hat on.

        “There isn’t an American alive who, either directly or through family, hasn’t benefited from SS, Medicare, Medicaid, or food assistance.”

        Beyond your childish “ends justify the means” um, “ethics,” I think AB’s argument from practicalities is far more valid and indeed, exciting. I’d rather like to see what America could have been had it not sold itself like a cheap whore for the sake of dependency.

        “Without this help, my mother would have by now died in a horrible scenario and I would be homeless and w/o any kind of healthcare other than the ER.”

        If you saw my post on Dr Doug McGuff’s presentation at 21 Convention, the ER has been a national healthcare.

        But otherwise, people die every day. People don’t have the means of getting what they want or need every day.

        You just don’t want to face the realities of life. So why don’t you just say it and admit it? You are ultimately a failure at managing and securing your life on your own. But given that, rather than putting your hand out humbly and asking nicely of those who are competent in such matters, you like to pretend that you’re owed a life at the expense of others, and you fake your own pride.

        Pathetic.

        (how’s that for a good shaming, AB?)

      • ladysadie1 says:

        I also like Dalrock. But, as I am sure you know, the red-pill crowd isn’t exactly friendly toward single moms, and they tend to make way too many AWALT assumptions.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        That’s dead on, but I’ll see your shaming and raise you.

        I’m rich. Not by a 1% standard, but I never have to work again if I didn’t want to. Also, most of my weekly work is for under $3 per hour. Yes, my main job I earn under $3 per hour, 25-30 hours per week.

        Now, my shame for the proletariat: I don’t pay taxes. I send government a high portion of my income every year, but I don’t actually pay real taxes. I pay a tithe for blessings, one could say. Government through the voters’ decrees blessed me with all these regulations and restrictions on others competing with me. They’ve made my life easier even though I deny that “help”. I openly rail out against government help. Yet it exists. And it’s done with the voters’ approval.

        So the money I pay in “taxes” is less than the benefit I gain from government’s strangehold. I don’t take advantage of these benefits, they are just there, impossible to truly work around. Since my net assets grow every year, and since my income grows every year, I don’t pay real taxes.

        You know who pays taxes? People whose net assets decrease every year, whose income is stagnant or worse once you factor in currency devaluation (“inflation”). That’s most people. I’d put it at around the bottom 85% according to my napkin calculations.

        The top 15% appear to pay somewhere around 60% of government’s income, but they probably gain a solid 10-25% back in the form of government blessings through laws and regulations and licensing and restrictions on others competing.

        It’s joyous to think that the average voter is just voting for more slavery on themselves, to me and my kind — and we don’t want it! We want you of plebeian masses to compete with us, to challenge us, to give us reason to be cheerful that we’re winning, or to learn when we’re losing.

        But you won’t allow that, because you vote. You go to a polling box once a year or less and you openly beg for slavery. You do it to yourselves, for my benefit, and I beg you to stop! But you won’t. You want to pay for my benefit. I can’t even opt-out of your welfare for me. I am ashamed for you, since you won’t even realize how shameful your actions are.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        ladysadie1: I would say the #1 woman who follows me, asks me for advice, or even pays me for help is the single mom. And I am very honest with her/them that being a single mom is a huge SMV penalty.

        But it is NOT unrecoverable. One’s SMV becomes unrecoverable if they have MULTIPLE penalties — especially ones that can be fixed.

        It would be wrong of me to deny that it’s a penalty, but I know a few single moms with relatively young children who are doing quite well in the sexual marketplace, have gotten healthy and sexy and fun, and have found guys worthy of supporting. It requires a bit more work, but it’s easier than being 40 years old with two Ph.D.s and a manjaw and wondering why the hell she’s not happy. That’s a total loss.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Being 41, with a STEM job, and 3 kids…meh, I would say that is the multiple penalty category. ::sigh::

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Shut up, woman.

        You’re in the STEM field — more men than women. Also, the men have done a great job proving their responsibility by fielding a degree and a job in a very difficult field.

        Will there be Hawk-style alphas available? Not as many. The nerdy geek generalization is very true. But that doesn’t mean you can’t field a great guy from a selection of the friends of coworkers.

        41 with 3 kids, there are penalties there — namely, you’re not going to probably find a guy who wants kids of his own. BUT, at 41, your match age is as high as 68. And since YOU may not want more kids yourself, finding yourself a paleo mate in his early 50s isn’t a bad proposition, especially in the STEM community where plenty of guys that age are financially capable AND may have not had the chance to properly date when they were younger. A combination of geekiness and work responsibilities?

        Stay focused on your feminine graces: get your body rocking, gross your hair out if you haven’t, drop $150 on a GREAT gay hair stylist and sit your ass down at the Bloomies make-up counter and keep having them do your make-up until the day comes that you leave the store and get 3 compliments within an hour. Then, stick to that style.

        Demure, demure, demure. Men with stability like demure. Reduce high reward activities while you’re looking for courtship, during your active dating mode. Skip the movies, the books, the TV shows, the shopping, anything high reward. Let your mind be open to the high reward of a strong hawk-alpha male. This will please the man and show him that you’re ready for a commitment.

        Lots to share, but I’ll save it for my paleogamy website launch. Guinea pigs welcome!

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Can’t wait to see what you have on your website. Thanks for your advice.

      • Oh man I’m lafing. That sounds like some pretty decent advice to me and I am so rooting for Sadie and her three awesome girls.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Richard:

        Repeat after me…

        “Dada you’re a pig sexist. Sadie can do whatever she wants because she is powerful, and she needs no man to be happy!”

        Say it 15 times while looking at a photo of me. Furrow your brow, and if you can also shake your fist in the air, that will help. Maybe stomp your foot sometime.

        There you go, you are now the proud owner of a Ph.D in Gender Studies.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        You are both tooooo funny.

        Ah, yes, AB, I am woman, hear me roar -with laughter at you both!

      • “Dada you’re a pig sexist”

        I’ll see your sexist and raise you a misogynist.

        BTW, Beatrice was joking the other night, kinda getting into the groove of thinking about doing a guest post.

        “Keep up the misogynist line, girls. Because he’s MY misogynist!”

        My mom, my employee for 20 years this year so she could escape daycare, laughs too.

        In the end, this is all about entitlement, refusal to take accountability, and most particularly, the refusal to negotiate explicit and implicit terms and live by them.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Sadie: That laughter is your hamster/hindbrain making you laugh because it’s so riled up it has to do something ejaculatory in nature.

        Richard: I think I read you post that elsewhere, it’s hilarious. My #1 loves to call me her “big misogynist” and has warned some of her high status friends to be careful with me because I will unravel them in moments.

        The problem with that is that high status women get sexually intrigued by a man who can undress their lives in few minutes, but I think my lady loves seeing me flirt and then shoot down those friends of hers who had a habit of stealing guys she was interested in during the college years.

        See? A misogynist has a very proper place in a woman’s life: he contributes to her #winning over her slutty multi-degreed gal pals.

        God damned do I love a good woman, though. If I ever have millions to spend, I’m going to donate it to some Gender Studies wing of a college, just so I help created more women I will never be attracted to. The Dada Center for Women’s Rights. Sounds sexy.

      • Shelley says:

        What or who is a high status woman?

      • Shelley says:

        And, what’s a STEM field?

      • “God damned do I love a good woman, though. If I ever have millions to spend, I’m going to donate it to some Gender Studies wing of a college, just so I help created more women I will never be attracted to. The Dada Center for Women’s Rights. Sounds sexy.”

        I don’t know why, but I’m suddenly reminded to ask you about a curiosity of mine. My wife is very attractive for her 52 years. Typical “everything in moderation, better safe than sorry” Latina, loved by all, always?

        She has a Masters. I only have a Bach. But in my understanding of everything, what she is is an introvert. This made me think of a couple of notable hot women from the past where the relationship failed because I mistakenly just assumed they were extroverts, when they were really introverts.

        So I guess my question is, what’s you take on a very super attractive woman, even well educated, good job but ultimately not a wave maker at all, a naturally introverted perssonality.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Science/Technology/Engineering/Math

      • Shelley says:

        “Stay focused on your feminine graces: get your body rocking, gross your hair out if you haven’t, drop $150 on a GREAT gay hair stylist and sit your ass down at the Bloomies make-up counter and keep having them do your make-up until the day comes that you leave the store and get 3 compliments within an hour.”

        I want to do this – Sadie, come with me!! Should I get some great shoes and a bag to match as well? Some cocktails — I’m thinking a woman’s night out!

      • Shelley says:

        STEM – Ha! I am one of those and didn’t know the acronym. Some of the guys there, yes; most, no. I would suggest staying away from the true geek engineers and focus on the business guys in that field. (Just my opinion, though).

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Richard:

        I will delve into my racist-generalization side here.

        “Latina, loved by all, always?”

        Latinas are my weakness, because even the most high status of them will still kneel to the presence of a male with confidence and assuredness in himself. I had a (much younger, much more beautiful, much more popular) Latina in my life for many years. I met her when she was 18 and I was much older, gulp. Even though she had everything going for her, she was instantly attracted to me because she knew I didn’t give a fuck. And as she became higher status (top university, top job, amazing beta schlub boyfriend), she continued to call for me regularly, just to satisfy her need for a confident man. We’re still very very good friends.

        That being said, I do think Latinas can be amazing spouses. I have a neighbor (I live in a Latino ghetto) who is pushing 60 and I would hit it repeatedly. She’s just gorgeous, ridiculously good at progesterone providing, and she owns a HUGE business with tons of money, nice car, fancy wardrobe, etc. We flirt hardcore when we pass on morning walks — she obviously is attracted to my demeanor and confidence with her.

        “what’s you take on a very super attractive woman, even well educated, good job but ultimately not a wave maker at all, a naturally introverted perssonality.”

        Hot women are only trouble if they’re extroverts, or if they use high reward actions to hide their introversion (drugs, alcohol, shopping, etc). I assume your beautiful bride (by the way, this is me being truly envious!) didn’t have alcoholism, drug addiction or was shopaholic, correct?

        If that’s the case, her hotness is a non-issue. Vultures and manipulators and victimizers seek out hot women who cover their introversion with high reward activities/addictions. She probably never had to deal with vultures/manipulators because she didn’t hide her introversion through those activities, maybe just through school and work masks she wears or wore.

        I am just guessing here, purely spinning hypotheses — but I feel pretty confident with this. I’ll think more about it this weekend. Logged and noted.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Our engineers are mostly married. The IT guys are the geeks (the guys with no social skills whatsoever).

        Oh, and can we add a nice wax and a mini-pedi to our little Dada-prescribed outing?

      • A.B. Dada says:

        I never heard of a wax every being “nice”.

        Pedicures are a must for men and women during the courtship phase and every phase after it. God bless the Vietnamese.

        Lots of engineers are married, but I don’t mean dating your coworkers. I mean attending their summer BBQs, going to conventions/training classes and meeting others in your field, going to EVERY supplier event, etc. There’s a LOT of socializing that goes on in the STEM industry, you just have to know how to seek it out. Ask your director/manager/boss about opportunities to network.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Duly noted, AB. Trust me when I tell you that our company does not encourage socializing. However, I just took a second job where there will not only be opporutnities to meet people, but I will also be sheparded by a wonderful married (Red Pill) couple. I appreciate your advice. Here is 7man’s summation of me: (Richard I hope that’s allowed) As I am sure you know, 7man is an approved member of the evil patriarchy!

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Wow you’re 5’10″ 120#? Damn.

        Although it may be an SMV penalty (women over 5’5″ actually!), it can be useful in the right wardrobe.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Yes, and as I think Richard may have previously pointed out, I also teach yoga (or do demonstrations from time to time) ;)

      • Shelley says:

        Sadie, I predict the second you’re not expecting it, the most perfect man is going to take you by surprise and absolutely bring you to your knees. And, he will thank you for just being you.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Thank you Shelley, that’s a wonderful thought to start my weekend!

      • Let me add some perspective.

        First, I went to Asia for a month while in college. Lost my virginity to a Korean girl in Pusan, then had wonderful times with Koeans and Japanese alike in both countries. I was so gobsmacked at how they “handled” males, loving how they did it in sexual and non-sexual contexts that I came back and being an NROTC guy, immediately put in for 1st duty in Japan, where there were US Military bases.

        In the meantime, I met the first of the hot women I mistook for an extrovert, when she was really an introvert (took me years to figure this out). She was the hottest in a co-Ed dorm of six floors. I managed to eek my way into about a year and a half with her. Philippinna.

        This was my first taste of the family, and how the women are the behind-the-scenes managers, but never, ever in an extroverted sense. A male fucks up, like being drunk or whatever? They know which male to go to go get done what needs being done. So natually, so culturally. It’s beautiful on analysis. Because their aim is always keeping the family unit intact.

        Interlude. My life as a “back door man” for some years.

        http://freetheanimal.com/2011/06/the-book-what-im-up-to-nothing-should-go-as-planned.html

        Interested in your perspectives on that.

        Fast way forward. What I observed in Philippino culture and others is pretty much exactly what I observe in the Latino culture I’ve been a part of of 15 years and adore.

        If its just the men, talk is almost always about sports. Add a few of the women, like Beatrice and her sisters, and the talk immediately shifts to the nieces and nephews, of which there are many. Even more beautiful, they focus on individual viruses, individual distinction, how one is this way but the other that, etc.

        My wife has trust accounts set up not only for every single of her nieces and nephews, but mine as well, and rather than buying them some stupid useless shit on Xmas or their Bday, a modest deposit is made (these are very modest accounts….don’t get the wrong idea) along with an email to one and all asking others to do likewise.

        Well, I suppose my point is that there has been good discussion here about how social units work together. My point is that I have seen first hand how that works with all those brown skins and I love it. Those women are super glue, man.

      • “Oh, and can we add a nice wax and a mini-pedi to our little Dada-prescribed outing”

        If you’re going to speak in foreign languages, please signify which one. Google translate is getting pretty good.

      • Does eveyone see how that worked? I had no idea what STEM was, nor did many others.

        Sadie was testing AB, to see if he knew his shit.

      • “Richard I hope that’s allowed”

        You already paid for your carte blanche to post whatever links you like.

      • AB, get on the phone already with Sadie and help her get this worked out. Help her use her important assets to get what she wants.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Man, I didn’t even cognitively notice the STEM mention. Brain shifts into processing mode. I had to scroll through to see what the hubbub was about, ha.

        My primary dame, the one I adore and cherish, is in the STEM industry. High power, strong bachelor degree from the #1 private STEM university, looks ridiculously sexy in a dress and heels, and knows she has the best she’s going to get, and treats me properly. I pay her back by quieting her hamster regularly.

        I do love STEM women. So smart, so kinetic, so hilarious to geek joke with. It’s painful that polygamy is illegal, because I could probably afford and manage 5 just like her, neighborly style, ha.

      • A.B. Dada says:
      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Shelley, in regards to the USA healthcare situation, only time will tell how the country moves along. Who can say? With the huge costs associated with medical care, either the profiteering of insurance companies and big pharma must be ended or health care will have to be rationed.

        Richard wrote something on the subject a short while back. I’m not sure what it is he thinks should happen. Dr. Atul Gawande wrote a piece for the New Yorker magazine which I read last week-end. I would be interested to read what Richard thinks of Dr. Gawande’s opinions.

    • Pablito says:

      Still waiting for example of hermitic, individualistic, anarchist, Randian, libertarian H-G societies.

      (Crickets.)

      There haven’t been any, and there aren’t any, because those traits are antithetical to our humanness.

      I’m an atheist, but I’ve always felt that Jesus was right in Matthew 25, what we call the Sermon on the Mount. A large portion is dedicated to helping those lose fortunate.

      • “Still waiting for example of hermitic, individualistic, anarchist, Randian, libertarian H-G societies”

        You need to have seen the slide I put up in my AHS presentation and then at 21 Convention where I laid out precisely how all anarchistic communal groups (like H-Gs) ought to function.

        It was blank.

      • Pablito says:

        Obviously, I missed it.

        H-G’s weren’t anarchistic. The latter presumes no government. But there is always government. It may be a tribal council, or a conversation seeking a consensus to make a decision, but there has always been government.

        It’s pretty well acknowledged (I think I”ve seen you say this) that we, as a social species do best in small groups, perhaps up to 150. Fine and well, but that era has long left us what with 7 billion peeps in the world. So, governments at all levels try to do in othe rformats what was once best.

      • “G’s weren’t anarchistic. The latter presumes no government. But there is always government. It may be a tribal council, or a conversation seeking a consensus to make a decision, but there has always been government.”

        Ok, been there, done that. I don’t argue with people who change definitions to fit their argument.

        Go argue with a liar. You’ll both win.

      • Also, show me where I used the word “government” a single time.

      • AndrewS says:

        H-G societies weren’t anarchist? You mean you have evidence that every HG society had cops, courts, taxation, standing armies, bureaucratic environmental organizations, and the rest?

        You seem to be confusing “libertarian/anarchist/Randian/Objectivist/etc” with “hermit”.

  14. Lute Nikoley says:

    I went to HS in the fifties, where occasionally I bought my lunch in the school cafeteria, 35 cents including a small carton of whole milk or soda. The food was always about what you can get in any restaurant with meat, vegetables and potatoes. Fresh fruit of all sorts was also available. All of the food was cooked right there in the school kitchen.

    I see the day when the food police will come to our houses, inspect the contents of our pantries and refrigerators for what they deem as improper food and confiscate it.

  15. Shelley says:

    As hard as I know it is for some, especially single moms, it’s not the government’s responsibility to feed our kids – it’s ours.

    Sadie, you are teaching your girls to be self-sufficient, responsible individuals who can listen to others, operate in their environment, but are able to independently think and discriminate fact from fiction. Your girls will grow up to be wonderfully strong girls under your advisement. :-) Every child should be so lucky as to have a mom like you!

    • ladysadie1 says:

      Thank you, Shelley! It’s lots of extra work, but I want them to be not only able to be self sufficient and capable, I also want them to have something to bring to the table in future relationships as well. Feel free to read between the lines there.

      • A.B. Dada says:

        A lot of us paleo guys are wealthy, maybe someone should start a “take a single parent household grocery shopping” website to match up those who have with those who need. I’d kick in $100 a month to a local single parent household if it means the kids can get real food breakfasts covered for 1 month. Not hard to do for $25/week, that’s 3 dozen eggs and veggies and bacon/sausage.

      • If you lead, I will follow.

        Who else?

      • A.B. Dada says:

        Give me 12 hours, I’ll have something up to link to to aid discussion, unless you’d like the honor.

        It has to be a real person, in your travel distance, and you should have the right to decline them or they your offer. Fully voluntary, with the premise that we of higher means are proving our value to other individuals in more than charity.

        Ever individual kid we assist now is one less diabetic depressive for Medicare to not pay for in the future. But it must happen between known individuals, not generic anonymous group transfers of wealth. I would refuse that.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Sadie, feeding your own children properly is not ‘extra work’. It’s just work.

        Been there, done that. Graduated.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Congratulations. I see you also have a degree in Overt Condescension.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Not condescension at all. Of course responsibly raising children is a ‘challenging’ undertaking. Raising them as a single mother, as I did, makes for even more, (forget the euphemism) DIFFICULTIES. But I take issue with claiming that feeding children properly is ‘extra work’ provided the children don’t have some serious health problems necessitating extremely unusual dietary restrictions.

        I suppose we need a definition of what it is that ‘work’ consists of in regards to feeding children and how ‘extra work’ differs from ‘work’. Then there won’t be misunderstandings as indicated by your above comment.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Yes, I was a bit reactive. Sorry for that. By “extra” I meant ‘more work than I would have to do if the school was serving proper food”… NOT that I resent feeding the kids!

      • And let’s we forget, this whole thing began way back when, when Sadie emailed me about how to feed the kids more because low carb paleo wasn’t cutting it for them.

  16. {…I know that most, especially long timers, will always understand how my rage works. }

    Damn it Richard, why? Why do you find it impossible to not feed your trolls? Do you not get that your constant attention to those people is exactly what they seek? Its a victory for them every single time you go off topic and comment in their direction. That entire paragraph added nothing of value to the post, in fact it detracts from it.

    Brother, we all have our haters, but most of us quit caring by our age. Haters hate, you can’t stop that, but you can stop dedicating so much of your time and word count to them.

    • “Damn it Richard, why? Why do you find it impossible to not feed your trolls?”

      It’s not impossible, not more than its not impossible to ignore a venemous snake in your path. Things are what they are. I pay attention to the real and account for the real over time and space and I am concerned primarily with the burgeoning environment for beginners.

      But I’m a niche in the beginner market. I don’t want everyone. I want smart, independent minds confident enough to experiment on themselves, who already have the requisite minds to see through the pathos of a Melissa or Evelyn. You can’t? Fine. I’ll wait for the next few of the 2-3,000 Google deliveries tomorrow.

      You have no idea how I laugh. My stats are better than ever, and far better than usual during the summer lull. I am baiting them, dont you get it? Ever gone fishing? I have. My wife even wants to write a guest post on how to keep the misogyny stuff coming because I’m HER misogynist, as she finishes her 30th year of teaching kids to think for themselves.

      Melissa is a little girl and Evelyn is an older version of herself. They can’t move on, and it is benefitting me and I will use all benefit at my disposal. I told you way back: I love lemonade.

      Why do you care, anyway. I’ve been doing this since 2003, I know exactly what I’m doing at all times and I’m ok with and admonishment when it’s from the heart but I do ultimately see it as kinda silly and wasted.

      • AndrewS says:

        I am amused by the trolls. Baiting them is, basically, trolling itself, but it’s the kind of trolling I don’t mind!

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        @ Richard,

        Wow…that Neo-Tech stuff Melissa dug up sure is bizarre.

      • Way old news you old bater.

        Hell, you can even get it from my blog archives. Never been a secret, just history. I actually love she brought it up.

        Guess what elsse. I was a fundamentalist baptist and went to divinity scool. That’s in the closet too.

        I’d actually had a blog in mind about that history and how the PhD Chemist for DuPont became a good friend. Maybe someday. I don’t want to steal a little girl’s fire who thinks she’s onto something.

  17. If I were a parent these days, I would ask other neighborhood parents, a dozen or do, to pool in and hire a private tutor for the kids. Teach them the BS they have to pass for their state exams, but also enrich them with education they should have but our public schools fail to provide. Finally, I’d make sure my kids were involved with a sport or music, something to get them to socialize with other kids. In a perfect world…

    • I smell a huge opportunity for smart people in small neighborhoods and communities.

      When I first met Beatrice about 15 years ago all of the other teachers were the typical demographic. Since then, wanna guess how many older folks there are who go back and get a cert, and have now been teaching for 5-10 years and they’re in their 40s, 50s, or even higher?

      Even the oppressive State can’t stop natural evolution.

      Met an older guy kindergarten teacher just yesterday, in his ninth year. I asked him what his purpose was and he said: “to fuck with their minds.” he illustrated by saying “toich yuur nose” (while he touches his elbow). The point is easy: he’s teaching them that an authority figure can be very wrong.

    • Liz – it’s a great idea, but the education market is so dominated by the government’s “free” alternative, most folks are happy to spin their wheels talking about fixing or improving the public school system. even the idea of vouchers, a step at least toward a free market in education, is mostly a non-starter. I know of a couple families in my community who are open to some kind of cooperative unschooling like this, but with just five kids the time/money required is prohibitive (excuse I know, it all depends on priorities). like richard mentions it takes the right mix of people, I would love to see more people think like this but not holding my breath.

  18. Amy Haines says:

    Richard, and Sadie Sue –

    Michele of Nom Nom Paleo just wrapped up a 5 day series on Paleo Lunches for her two growing boys. If I may link to her site: http://www.nomnompaleo.com

    Last school year there was an uproar about a daycare worker taking a 3 or 4 year old girl’s home-packed lunch of banana, cheese sammie, and some other foods (can’t recall exactly) away from her because it didn’t contain the right ratio of USDA approved food groups. The lunch monitor confiscated the food and gave the girl chicken nuggets instead, which she didn’t eat.

    A few days ago I read a story about a daycare asking a deaf 3-year old boy to change the way he signs his name because it looked like a gun, and the zero-tolerance policy on violence forbids any use of hand gestures that look like weapons. It’s a legitimately recognized ASL sign, and the school wants him to change it because it looks like a gun. Think on that for a minute. You’re afraid of a three-year old’s fingers.

    Naughton had a good take on the new USDA guidelines and the lunch “ambassador” idea – teach kids how to eat HHWGs (heart healthy whole grains) and chicken fingers, because, you know, kids don’t know how to put food in their mouths. Have the popular kid serve veggies (bets on how long his popularity would last?).

    Then we have articles about how circumcision is the shit because a bunch of people in Africa who practice circumcision and have lower rates of HIV – never mind that other cultural and religious factors could be responsible – no, we have to clip all the males now because some African tribesmen happen to not fuck everything that moves and get HIV, proving circumcision is the only way to go.

    The neo-Malthusians predict the world will have to go vegetarian by 2050 in order to survive the rising population rate.

    Are we willing to live if it means living in stupidity?

    Can we get a collective grip on our fucking selves? I’m not normally one given to excessive profanity but I have to scream FUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK when I read this shit – and it is shit of the highest order – because it is so fucking snake pit insane.

    I really must work harder on my husband to get him on board with homeschool for the kids. Everyone worries about socialization. Fuck that. They can socialize at karate class or soccer club.

    • Amy

      You know, there are two guys who’ve commented so far that the biggest problem is that I baited a couple of women. You don’t have a problem with that?

      Oh, by the way, apropos to your story about the deaf boy (which I heard about), somewhere here in the USA, I’ve heard abut a school objecting that a boy is named “Hunter.”

      Thankfully, I predict both to go down in flames based on stupidity. Niether would survive the most moron judge’s phonetic reading the the 1stamendment (though I don’t personally give a shit about the Constitution), so the essential identification is this: these are the morons teaching your kids at the most critical stage.

      • Amy Haines says:

        Well, Man-Face is a meddling bitch. I have no problem calling a spade a … wait, is that raciss? Oh well.

        When did First Ladies begin to have their own pet causes to peddle and pander to people? Rather, when did TPTB decide that using the FL as a mouthpiece to encourage whatever fuck-all dumb idea to ram down our throats, like a War on Poverty, a War on Drugs, a War on Stupid Kids (NCLB), and the vogue War on Obesity? Am I missing any pet causes or FLs – Lady Bird, Nancy, Barbara Bush, Man Face? What was Jocelyn’s mission and who dictated it to her?

        I was a teacher. Many are good people, properly motivated and trying to do good work, but sadly hamstrung by administrators, curricula, and government diktat to be effective at educing a desire to know, which should be the only mission of a school. It was a frustrating field for someone as generally antisocial and grated on by authority as I am (poor career choice, I guess). And the kids? I don’t know about them. I saw far too many zombified teens (either from Rx drugs, illegal drugs, lack of food, too much of the wrong food, or just a steady diet of junk media) just struggling to get through the day, like I was. Everything about school has to fundamentally change. Getting the FedGov out of the education biz and turning control back over to local communities would be a good start. I am not, however, going to hold my breath.

  19. Elizabeth says:

    I’m not sure I’d want my kid (he is unschooled) to be eating school lunches, regardless of their contents. Who needs protein if it’s coming from “meat of unknown origin.” I’d rather my son be eating rice and beans than “MUO.” Given where 90% of meat in this country comes from, the last thing we need is a meat-centric school lunch program to “beef up” the CAFO system. The milk will be from confinement dairies, the fruit will be from cans, the vegetables will likely be cooked. Those things bother me more than the nutritional guidelines, becasuse if the food were ethically sourced and sensibly prepared and FRESH vegetable/fruit centric, I think active kids could handle a carb rich/protein poor mid-day meal, assuming breakfast and dinner were more balanced.

    • Elizabeth and all others.

      Everyone is at their stage in life, often for complex reasons. Everyone knows far less about Sadie’s troubles than I.

      I included pics of her and kids for a reason.

      I salute Sadie and what she has done. If you’re ahead in that game, very good for you and I’m not going to take anything away. But for the love of God, can the real message be focussed on?

    • ladysadie1 says:

      A word about my school and community, Elizabeth:

      My meat comes from local producers. Some it may not be 100% grass-fed, but there’s no “pink slime” in my house either. Pardon me for saying this, but your comment reads like a “city-girl”. I make no secret of not buying grass fed beef, but the dirty little propaganda being spread if that any beef not 100% grass fed is walking around in it’s own excrement all day. My locally sourced meat is only “grained” for the last couple months of its life, and the producers do not use hormones at all and antibiotics as a last resort. Paleo perfection? No. But the best I can do.

      I did let the kids eat at school last year, but I had to draw the line. My bigger concern in writing to Richard was not about *my* kids, but the kids who are in households where the parents, for financial reasons, or out of ignorance alone, cannot make the decision I made to properly feed their children.

      • Shelley says:

        Sadie, you are leading by example and that may be the best way to make some dents in our current society. I mean, we’re competing with Michelle Obama lecturing Gabby Douglas on major television about the dangers of a McDonald egg-mcmuffin, which in comparison to other breakfast food, isn’t so bad.

        Maybe, hopefully soon, common sense will make a come-back and schools won’t think that fried cheese sticks make a sufficient lunch.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        Oh, yes, the evil, evil McMuffin incident and the chastisement of an Olympic athlete from Our Venerable Lady Obama… ::face palm:: Her posterior is giant, who is she to lecture anyone?

        I appreciate your very kind words, but I only want my kids to be have the tools they need to think for themselves. the only competition I am in is trying to give my kids some skills that will allow them to survive in case something disastrous, which is looking increasingly likely.

      • “about the dangers of a McDonald egg-mcmuffin”

        And let’s be clear. I can show in a NY minute that a McDs egg mcmuffin is far better nutrition than what they are serving.

        (side note: this is what I loath about elite Paleo)

        And what’s the complaint, exactly? It’s not the English muffin, a modest grain load compared to a lot. It’s about the egg and ham. They’re probably fine even with the plastic cheese.

      • AndrewS says:

        Ugh. Plastic cheese is a sin against man, God, and bacon.

      • Shelley says:

        Well, I did hear/read recently that an egg is worse than smoking. So, yes, I’m sure the complaint is about the egg and ham.

      • ladysadie1 says:

        There will be NO sinning against bacon on my watch!

  20. Danimal says:

    I cannot imagine the rage I would feel if someone attempted to mess with the food that I had provided my offspring. Kudos for not getting violent. As for lunch ideas, I may be able to offer some insight.

    My fiance commutes about 6 hours total per day for clinical right now, so preparing a weeks or so’s worth of meals is practically paramount to our diets. Our number one go to is individual serving of meat load. Always with grass-fed ground beef, mix in whatever else you wish. This weeks was portabella and Kerrygold cheddar chunks. Previous versions included chopped bacon and onions. We’ll mix it up with some pastured lamb or pork once and a while as well. We do each serving with 8oz of the beef. You can alter for your smaller humans as you deem appropriate.

    Another great option is slow cooked anything en masse. Get a bunch of chicken breasts or a big roast. Slow cook it, shred it, and divvy up accordingly.

    I’m super strict low carb, but the wife-to-be has an outrageously fast metabolism and is far more tolerant to crabs than I. We each will usually have a cucumber sliced as well. She’ll additionally take cucumbers and a jar of almond butter, slices of grass-fed summer sausage and raw-milk cheese, or some almond flour dark chocolate cookies.

    Just a few ideas. I gotta run, but maybe I can post some more later.

    • ladysadie1 says:

      Thanks, Danimal.

      Sound alot like our basic formula here where most of the meat prep is done on the weekend, we grill or smoke TONS of meat and then freeze it in individual portions. Each kid gives me their selection for the next day and I thaw, or reheat in the morning as necessary. They are responsible for prepping their own veggies the night before and we make breakfast for the next day while we are making supper. In the morning, I reheat things before I leave and they eat breakfast, pack lunches and walk to school. When it’s too cold to grill, the slow-cooker is constantly on!

    • “Kudos for not getting violent.”

      You have no idea. But yes, kudos to all. Pens and barbells of ink. So long as they’re legal.

    • “but the wife-to-be has an outrageously fast metabolism and is far more tolerant to crabs than I”

      She’s a keeper, most women want nothing to do with a person who has crabs.

  21. William says:

    Ok, I’ll take the bait: “Fuck Obama, and his bitch!” Well said m’boy… well said! I always thought Richard’s vision is pretty damn sharp.

    It was the same idiotic USDA guidelines that gave me twenty years of racing heart, wheat belly, chronic sinus, and asthma problems, aching joints, lack of energy… you name it, and those assholes from the federal government made my life miserable. Fuck ‘em! Now, I’ll finish my steak with a reduction of butter, “Dago Red,” and garlic.

    • I wish to be clear.

      I wrote that in 2007. I’ve written the same thing about Bush, Bush and Reagan, the extent of my personal experience. Ok, Cater too. Fuck him and Joselyn as well.

      I can NOT understnd why people seek out others to rule them. It’s that simple.

  22. Can we just skip the non-sense and get straight to soylent green already? The USDA suspense is killing me.

  23. Galina L. says:

    My son is in university right now, but I really feel for parents who don’t want their children to be hungry at school. Suggestions for the food hard to get spoiled – hard boiled eggs in shells, cheese, dry cured meats like salami, sapressatta, prosciutto – some of it expensive, but not all. Cream cheese rolled into salami eaten with hard-boiled egg is very satisfying. I think even canned SPAM is not a bad option combined with some cut veggies or cherry tomatoes for taste. Look what choices of canned meats you will find suitable. Probably, you can give your girls small container with a dressing to add to canned meat (like tuna or chicken).
    There are small thermoses suitable for lunches available in stores, choose only ones with stainless-still insides. Small thermos holds temperature worse, but you can still put there a stew or soup at a boiling temperature (after 2 minutes in a microwave), close tightly, it preserves the food germs-free and it still will be warm enough in a few hours. It is not necessary to make a proper stew for 3 hours every time, you can bring pieces of (even pre-boiled in a salted water) chicken mixed with whatever (sour-cream and garlic, or heavy cream and dry herbs and cheese, tomato souse and bacon ) to a high temperature in a microwave on the morning, while it is getting hot , put some boiling water in the thermos to get it germs-free and hot, then replace the water with a lunch food. If you are not comfortable to give your children an initially hot food, put anything you want in a mason jar evening before, heat it well in a microwave, close the lid immediately. Such treatment will keep food unspoiled long enough. You will have to practice with children how to open such jar because it would be sealed by the vacuum developed by cooling down of hot food.

    • I salute everything Galina L says, but want to add something. To my dad, is soup doesn’t burn your tongue, it’s cold. In France, I learned the wondrous beauty of a lukewarm soup, and how we really aren’t designed to tast much way hot or way cold.

      I like to serve soup warm. Try it. Discover the flavor.

      • Galina L. says:

        Richard, I was making my suggestions based on a food safety only. I thought it would be safer to put a stew or a soup at a boiling temperature in a small thermos with a reasonable hope it wouldn’t be to hot for a child to eat in a few hours later. Probably, cold soup should be put in cold without any concerns. I live in Florida right now, most of the days in a year eating a hot soup would be the wrong thing to do. What is the base of your cold soups? Mine are based on a diluted buttermilk with crashed with salt green onion, grated cucumber and herbs.

      • Not talking cold or chilled soups (gazpacho, which I love, and a few others). I’m talking a warm soup. My point it that if you put it in the thermos hot and it’s warm, focus on your ability to taste is over your reculsion that it doesn’t burn your tongue.

        Or live on France. In two years, I never tasted a soup or a bisque that was not ready to eat up at warm to warmer.

      • Galina L. says:

        I have not been in France, unfortunately. While watching cooking shows I got an impression that sups there are slightly different – lighter, often pureed, except for the spicy fish soup. I was raised on Russian food, our soups chunkier, more substantial, often with pieces of meat. Right now in my fridge is a sorrel/spinach soup based on a turkey broth. It is served not very hot, with chopped hardboiled egg, green onion and some sour-cream.

      • I made pho two weekends ago. It reminded me why I like to let my coffee just above warm. And my stews. And my soup. And my tea. The flavors KILL when they can be tasted.

        Granted, I do not know if I have an overly sensitive tongue (sorry Dave’s insane sauce).

        I tend to like warm to just right above warm (depending on mood and temperature of environment).

  24. Galina L. says:

    Guys, most of us can provide a normal food for our kids . Not every parent would do it, it is life, it is impossible to expect every member of a society to function reasonably. We can control only our life most of the time, but not always. What would happen if some of us would have to spend some time in a hospital or a long-term health care facility (I hope no one who reads my comment is going to prison some day.)? We wouldn’t have any means to escape being fed the nutritional equivalent of a cardboard+sugar because it is fat free and full of fiber. If the food approved by the government is a crap, how any parent would be able to advice his/her child to go to an army? Or there is an exeption for a military? Are they insane to attempt something so controversial as messing up with the way people eat right before elections? I do not have a strong preference for any party, as a non-citizen I just observe the whole show (it doesn’t prevent my family from paying every penny of due taxes , so I am concerned indeed about how my money got spent). The least I can say, money could be spent much better.

  25. ladysadie1 says:

    UPDATE: One small victory for common sense…

    The youngest one reports that Every Single Kid in her class (2nd grade) brought lunch today!

  26. I’m 27, went to a private school k-8, and ate the school lunches everyday. The “main entree” changed daily, but their were the options of milk, OJ, juices, a chef salad (I got this a lot during 7th & 8th grade; big portions), chips, and ice cream. My dad would give me $2/day and that was enough for the entree, a milk or two, and I always got an ice cream. Obviously, it wasn’t the healthiest food, but at least options were available for the kids. There weren’t any restrictions on how little/much you could get either. Actually, to the contrary, if the principal saw that you didn’t have a lunch she would buy it for the kid or some deal was worked out. They believed that we should all be feed, and then we were allowed to run around for 15-20 minutes for recess. Good stuff.

    The funny thing is that despite the nutritional quality of our lunch most of the kids in my school were not fat. Maybe one or two per grade for a total of 16/200. Not even 10%. And I think that’s a high percentage. The thing is activity levels were up. They let us be kids for 15-20 minutes (k-4 got an additional 10min recess in the morning and 10 in the afternoon) everyday, and we had an hour long P.E. class where we were active once a week.

    I know this isn’t the intent of this post, but I think its a valid point worth bringing up. School districts are cutting out physical activity/recess in favor of more education, but its like a double-whammy. First kids aren’t learning how to socialize, fuck around, or anythin else that’s as equally as important as the academics. Second, its been proven that kids are better off when they get to be kids and run around for a bit. I remember on the days that it rained and we had to be cooped up inside that it was a hell of a lot harder to pay attention or sit still in class.

    Across the board, these fuckers are doing a lot more harm than good.

    • “The funny thing is that despite the nutritional quality of our lunch most of the kids in my school were not fat.”

      I delighted in having kitchen duty at Verdi Elementary, 14 miles west of Reno on I80.. It got me away from mundane boredom and I loved those scool lunch ladies bossing me around and teaching me things at the same time. The big treat was to be on the serving line, where the food that had been cooked was served up, and I got to authoritatively be decree serve up my own classmates and all the others. My mom has already begun (at age 9) to instruct me in various cooking so this was a blessing and a blessing on top.

      Now it’s all packaged crap and I’m outraged and sad. I’m outraged because if you’re going to feed kids, do it so they appreciate you.

      I’m sad because probably nobody anymore gets the kind of experience I had where food was cooked and then served.

      ….Same deal. There was maybe the one fat guy (almost always a male). I have no idea what that’s about in fully clinical terms, but it was by no means the norm it is now.

  27. Ken Reitzig says:

    I agree whole-heartedly. The idea that the government can dictate what you send from home is appalling. I guess that’s one more reason my kids are homeschooled. When I send lunches with my kids, when they go to camps or homeschool coops, it’s usually kept real simple. And I always send more then they’ll eat because they never it the same amount. Usually it’s a meat (ham, chicken, whatever we had for dinner that looks like it will work), some cheese for a snack (my kids have become cheese snobs at a very young age), carrots, and some fruit. Most of the time my kids drink water, but sometimes I’ll send milk (I don’t drink much milk, but my kids do — fresh, unpasteurized, and whole). As for keeping it cool, I usually pack it all in a small cooler and tell my oldest that she’s in charge and make sure to keep it fair (the main lunch is usually separated, but snacks and milk will sometimes get gobbled up by one kid that’s overly enthuisiastic). You might want to look at http://www.planetbox.com/, if you haven’t already (I don’t have them, but they worth checking into).

    • Shelley says:

      Ken, I bought a couple planet box lunchboxes and, just to warn you, they are super small. I think they are perfect for K-2nd, but not for older kids who require more food. Maybe before you buy one for each child, buy one and see if it will work because they are super expensive.

      • Ken Reitzig says:

        Appreciate it, Shelley. I wouldn’t waste money on them for my kids because they’d hardly use them. I thought they looked good for kids using them everyday, but I guess I didn’t realize they were on the small side.

  28. Pablito says:

    I LOVED heading to the cafeteria back in the fifties and sixties! Real food, made from scratch by the famous hair netted “Lunch Ladies.” Fish every Friday because of the Catholics, but that was OK. I remember getting HALIBUT, it was USDA leftover food bank! Real butter, whole milk. My friend’s mother was a LL and she was allowed to bring leftovers home. It really helped that struggling family a lot. Today the lawyers would have a snit.

    I’ve been to my grandkid’s schools several times for lunch. Sometimes it wasn’t bad, but other times, it’s just passing out Big Food’s packaged, portioned crap. Cold.

    Real food for real kids.

    • Pablito

      First, thank you sir. Second, do see the comment I just put up about Lunch Ladies. I regret I didn’t write dear Lunch Ladies, now that you have referenced them too.

  29. Kristina says:

    Wait… the lunch monitor told this woman’s child her lunch wasn’t allowed because it had too much meat on it?!

    Personal responsibility has a one-way ticket on an eastbound train. Isn’t that the fastest way to make a people completely dependent and servile, to take away their ability to do anything for themselves?

    I have a friend from college who has a touch of PTSD from Iraq (okay… fairly extreme PTSD) and he keeps his bags packed to flee to the Canadian Rockies in the event of a domestic threat, which he says will center almost entirely on paramilitary and gun owners. I’m starting to wonder if his brain isn’t as fried as it seems.

  30. A.B. Dada says:

    I wonder if one of the offshoots of the non-elite paleo movement will be paleo schooling.

    • Amy Haines says:

      Could be, A.B. I’ve noticed an up-tick in the number of blogs and discussions about unschooling as opposed to homeschooling. It seems unschooling could be considered a paleo type of education, as it allows the child to intuitively explore the environment, imitate parental behaviors and patterns, which all kids do anyway, but in a close home setting, the imitation can lead to more than just mimicking and internalizing behaviors and attitudes. It can allow a child to naturally and instinctively pick up on skills for living and thriving rather than just fill the head with facts and “stuff” to pass tests. Unschooling might sound like hands off parenting, but if I understand it correctly, properly “unschooled” children and their parents become in tune with their environment and their own internal and external emotional, physical, and educational needs, letting their interests and their environment determine the path they take, rather than having things handed to them to digest and regurgitate.

      Modern public schools state their mission as one of educating the whole child, allowing the kids to choose paths, etc. etc., but I saw precious little of that while I was teaching. There were still standardized tests, curricular mandates, AYP demands, guidance counselors pushing EVERY KID TO COLLEGE (yay!) and administrators judging teachers on how well they conveyed concepts (which is filling a head rather than educing a desire for knowledge). All talk about change, no actual change to be had. Typical.

      IF we can make it work and IF my husband is on board, I would unschool our kids in our home and gradually in the wider world. Some patterns of conventional thinking are difficult to break. Most of my family think I’m going to do unending damage to our kids and their abilities to “socialize” if I homeschool/unschool them. I think they just patronize me in my idyll of being a SAHW&M and can’t wait to laugh at me when I send my youngest off to school to start living in the “real world” again. My world is real: hunted meat, garden grown veggies, homemade food, healthy kids, and a home full of love. Why would anyone not want that for themselves and their children, or be willing to upset that for a few extra bucks to buy trinkets?

      It seems that a paleo schooling practice would place a higher value on thriving and living to full potential, period. Not without any controls or guidance, but with respect to individual needs and desires, not a cookie-cutter system that panders to the self-esteem of the LCD student without actually helping that student, or any others, find the path to fulfillment and success, however one personally defines such things.

      • Do it! I’m based in the UK, not the US, but I left school aged 8, and it was the best thing my parents ever did for me. Socialisation isn’t a problem, just get out in the real world and they’ll come across children. You don’t require herding into a room with people all your age to make friends, why would you children?
        Honestly, I’ve learned more, been happier, and made friends with a much wider range of people than I could ever have dreamed of before. Now, eleven years down the line I’ve got a job, I’m studying for a degree, and I’m soon to move in with my boyfriend. Unschooling really works and I’d urge you to give it a try!

  31. Rocco Privetera says:

    I saw something similar to this recently. I was in a university (in Cali) a week ago for a summer school one-week camp type program I was doing tech work for. As part of the arrangement, the kids in the house get food for the week’s cost. All of us who stayed in the house, counselors, teachers and the tech nerd (myself) got the same free food.

    With a bunch of energetic screaming 5th-8th graders for a week, what did the school provide for food?

    In the cafeteria, breakfast had powdered eggs and a meat option (dubious sausage or barely tolerable bacon) and then some hard boiled eggs and passably peanut butter as a protein; 2-3 kinds of fresh fruit (thank god for that at least) and no vegetables of any kind.

    Of course, though, there were ALWAYS pancakes & frenchtoast plus honey, syrup, and sugar; 4-5 kinds of breads with jellies and jams, 3-4 kinds of muffins, 3-4 kinds of sugary donuts, 4 man-sized cylinders of sugar cereal, oatmeal, a whole section of the buffet with HFCS glazed canned fruit. To drink was coffee, no-fat milk, low-fat milk (no deadly deadly whole milk of course), soy milk, orange juice-like-drink, ice tea (sweetened) and soda. You all can imagine what the kids were all eating, after being educated for years with the USDA’s guidelines. Breakfast for me every day was whichever meat was available or an egg and a piece of fruit (which I normally don’t eat much of, but with no veggies I was hard pressed).

    Lunch and dinner were marginally better – all the junk was still present, there were usually hamburgers and hot dogs, and one meat entree. But of course there were at least 2-3 vegetable plus carb entrees (and no joke but every lunch/dinner had one “kale” dish and one “tofu” dish. Sometimes they had a kale and tofu dish just to mix it up).

    This is all just horrible. No wonder everybody seems so goddam sick all the time.

    • Hey Rocco. Since the feds going WAY back are happy to saddle those kids and their kids, and grandkids with debt’ why not they try to cut costs on their backs too?

  32. Small portion sizes are preparing you for the day when your alloted daily food serving is one grubby potato comrade.

  33. What the fuck is going on in the USA??? Is this everywhere or only selected states? I’m not saying Canada is much better (well maybe I am) but I don’t hear of forcefeeding kids crap at schools here… Yes I have a girl in grade 8. Her school has no cafetera – its 100% food from home

  34. Reminds me of one of the events that led to us homeschooling our kids. Our oldest daughter was ill often and missed a lot of school, which we now know was food allergy related. One day, as punishment for being absent, our daughter was not allowed to eat the normal lunch with her friends, and had to sit at a detention table and given a peanut butter sandwich to eat. Using food as punishment for something out of a child’s control is a great message to send.

    The lunch described in the original post here sounds like an even worse punishment.

  35. If we must give food to everyone, free of charge, the food becomes whatever cheap crap we can scrounge (and we try to avoid getting stuff that some people won’t like, e.g. rich people who have decided that fat is evil, and protein is too).

    • “If we must give food to everyone”

      It’s not even free and it’s not even everyone, and look how bad it already is. Free to everyone has already been done. Awchwitz, et al. The results are a meer Google images search away.

  36. I share the outrage. My kids go to school, pack their own lunches and I’d be livid if some busybody presumed to criticize my feeding of them. School cafeteria lunches are horrible. But… “intentionally starving” is ridiculous. And a school age kid being limited to 2 or 3 good solid meals a day is not going to harm them. No parent has a right to demand the state feed their children ANYTHING, let alone to dictate how good the food must be. This makes about as much sense as complaining that the government’s free health care is not good enough. I don’t want a single cent of tax money spent on school lunches.

    • You’re kinda missing the point. Badly. But you get to be as stupid as you want to be, and be perceived.

      I’m really tired of that, so I’m just going to let you wallow. Have a nice weekend. And no, I will never, ever explain myself. You have a choice: continue to look stupid, or come clean as to how you intentionally missed the message.

      • message: school lunches are horrible and bureaucrats are idiots. that’s why I threw in the first three sentences.

        but I have a hard time believing school nutrition committees or whoever comes up with that shit intends for children to starve. I know, it’s a rant and it’s about the emotion. but I’m a sucker for consistency Rich. guess that’s why I dont write a prize winning blog with thousands of fans, logic is too boring. y’all have a good weekend too. still a fan.

      • Honestly, they sort of did. Since the new guidelines are partially in response to the obesity problem. To lose weight, it is a matter of calories in vs. calories out, and since they aren’t increasing exercise, they are forcing it by calorie reduction (via a very wide brush that doesn’t account for differences in individuals, other than grade level). That isn’t even including that most of those calories are fairly nutritionally devoid of preprocessed fake food.

        But then, what did you expect from a body that wants to treat the kids as inter-changeable parts and was looking for a simple solution to a complex problem?

        The Morning Joy Farms article link in the blog sums it up pretty well.

      • Dave:

        Yea, that’s part of it too. I maintain that caloric restriction in young, growing kids is a very, very serious thing that needs to be undertaken very carefully, individually, and professional supervision is not a bad idea.

        Kids are growing. They require periods of caloric excess even, as things balance out. How many have seen a plump child, boy or girl, suddenly become a twig once they hit puberty?

        I dont think a bit of chubbiness (not obesity) is a bad thing on a pre-pubescent kid at all. Feed them QUALITY food, minimize the sodas & juices that don’t satiate, let them eat ad libitum and let nature do what it does. That will work for all but the very most individual cases.

        Caloric restriction of children as policy is going to be a disaster.

  37. Found this via a Facebook post, had to comment.

    “Please, sir, could I have some more?” Too many meals from the US gov-inspired ‘menu’ and not only will our kids have no idea where that line comes from, but none of them will have the mental aptitude to understand Dickens’ brilliant social commentary in Oliver Twist!

    My sister is a 5th grade teacher in a district where over 45% of the kids qualify for free lunch (another 25% qualify for reduced-price lunches). She says that nearly half the kids in her class get fewer than 2 meals at home PER WEEK. Most of them skip the first 30 minutes of class to attend “2nd breakfast”(offered for the kids who arrive at school less than 10 minuts before classes start). These kids get the majority of the week’s calories at school, and now their calorie content has dropped dramatically (their protein and good fat consumption is virtually nil). While I don’t think public schools should be in the business of feeding kids, that is a moot point now. They DO take on that burden, but in this latest (as well as all other) iteration, they’ve become absolutely responsible for dumbing our kids down. The kids who can’t make up the calorie deficit by purchasing extras (though my sister tells me they aren’t allowed extra protein or dairy, only extra carbs or the vending machine junk) are the also the ones who can’t go home and pig out to make up for what they’rer missing at school.

    In fact, a local church program does a better job of feeding these kids! Every weekend, they send home food packs with all the kids that are on the free- and reduced-price lunches; packs that include pouches of tuna, nut butters and packs of nuts, bags of kid-friendly fruits and veggies, and at least two cold dairy items (usually yogurt and string cheese). But I suppose Ms. Obama will put a stop to that soon enough – after all, that church is probably the real cause of our obesity problem!

  38. Galina L. says:

    Last thing to say. It is about cultural norms. I guess Paleo-movement questions a lot of cultural norms. I think in modern US population behaviors like not eating organ meats, or preferring to consume meat that looks like a piece of tofu , avoidance of fatty food, germ-phobia,an absolute fear of any body smells, embracing individualism, obsession with cars are all cultural norms. I am not ready to stop using deodorant or facial cream yet, but I question pretty much all the rest.
    Sadie was appalled by the thought that a grown-up woman may live with her not-disabled mother and mother watching kids because it is very frown upon in US. It is the equivalent of admitting yourself being worthless and self-disrespectful. In many situations such attitude does not contribute the success of survival, and doesn’t benefit the interest of children. Living with relatives could benefit them financially, could help a woman to follow her satisfying carrier while children live comfortably in a home environment, in the case with singe mothers grand dad could be a male role model for the children. Cultural norms may be stupid. For example, in the city I live now it is normal for the self-respected people to avoid using public buses even when it makes practical sense. Buses arrive right on schedule, clean, bus driver is nice and helpful. I drive a car now because our city is design for car transportation, I use a bus service rarely, but it is an absolute no-no for many people here.

  39. ladysadie1 says:

    Scored one for the Team Paleo today! Lunch: Grilled Mock Tenderloin (i.e. chuck, around 5-6oz.). Check. Wrapped in Bacon. Check. Sweet Potato drizzled with Molasses, Butter and Cinnamon. Check. Pear off the neighbor’s tree. Yep, that too. Plus a Greek yogurt and a bottled water. NO grains. No lunch monitors bitched about it, no one brought home left overs and the other (hungry and jealous) kids are starting to catch on… The school provided lunch: 1/2 of a slice of paper thin ham, mashed potatoes (from flakes, not real potatoes), choice of canned fruit or jello, slice of bread and skim milk.

  40. ladysadie1 says:

    Check this article out: http://beatricedailysun.com/news/local/education/fewer-bhs-students-participate-in-school-lunch-program/article_6318e478-e25b-5ee5-87f2-33ead7e933f7.html Here is a quote from the principal, ““We have tried our best to educate the students and the parents as to the changes in the lunch program, but the reaction doesn’t really surprise me,” Beatrice High School Principal Jason Sutter said. “We are ultimately are doing what is best for kids and their health.” Ummm, really, is he fucking serious? This is where lots of my co-workers’ kids and family members’ children attend school, just up the road from our district.

    Here is the d-bag principal’s email address: [email protected].

    Here is the lunch director’s email address: [email protected]

    Here is a blog created by a student to protest the lunch menu changes, let’s support this kid: http://schoollunchessuck.blogspot.com

    Thanks!!!

  41. i think alot of parents all over are upset ver the school lunch and should be. this is not freedom and it is making children unhealthy. and do not think for one minute the government cares if you are upset or not. this is about control not anything but just that. just wait this isn’t anything for what is in store for the people. we may hav to turn our children over to the government . look at the healthcare… it isn’t up to the doctor if you will be treated but if they get the okay from washington.and tax the very rich… when america has no money then we will mean nothing .and, what better way but through the children the innocent.we are not free… are we really better off than 4 years ago?! children can not grow on a salad and boiled egg and a slice of apple or half of a banana this is what our children get those who pay for breakfast get a cup of yougurt with frozen strawberries.but this is in the area where i live i don’t knpow if it is the same there.so i can not speak but i am in school everyday . i go with my patient and feed her so i know what is served . by the way my patient has cp can’t eat the salad. the school will not allow the patient to bring lunch as it isn’t healthy.gee!!! and salad is? not for the only and main food!!!! this is america the land of the free… where did our freedom go?!how much more are we willing to lose? looks like control not about health and my little patient is so very thin as most cp children are now she is nothing but bones with hardly flesh over them. the mother is upset because she is staying so sick. but now with healthcare on the block will sick get medical help not just food will we be told next what we can and can’t buy to eat in our very own homes?! this is not the america i knew… what happend to the fact our fathers who fought many years ago so we could be free many died for that.. was that all in vain… the children are hungry.. what a shame.

  42. With havin so much written content do you ever run into any problems of
    plagorism or copyright violation? My blog has a lot of exclusive content I’ve either written myself or outsourced but it seems a lot of it is popping it up all over the internet without my permission. Do you know any solutions to help stop content from being stolen? I’d certainly appreciate it.

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