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Shaming Fat Mobilers and the General Fat Morass

I fucking hate fat mobiles.

I swear by my life that when, and if, it ever comes to it: a cane. Crutches, if it's that bad. ...Lead for lunch otherwise. I will never be caught, even dead, in one. Shame on anyone who doesn't have real issues that demand it, to be caught in one.

...Fat mobiles are more pathetic than voting for who's going to rule you next, or hand you a check. It's a virtual archetype for my hate of where America is and headed, drunkenly shitting itself every step of the way.

I loved this post: DECLINE, DECAY, DENIAL, DELUSION, & DESPAIR (thanks commenter SadieSue). Amongst many jewels, not this:

fat guy on scooter
fat fuck guy on scooter

Not this either:

Junk
Junk

He did not intend either of those to be jewels, and that's what makes it a post worth reading. Oh, my. Even when I was 80 pounds overweight I got around on my own two legs and even as I did, I raged about those fat mobiles...and another thing: fucking double and triple wide baby mobiles. ...In my day, they were strollers and they were modest, and that's when people weren't carrying or backpacking babies (as they should 100%, exclusively). Now they're in fucking baby SUVs. Just an excerpt from that post I hope you read.

The majority of Americans seem OK with just waddling through life, accepting the lies and misinformation blasted from the boob tube and their various iGadgets by their owners, gorging themselves to death on Twinkies and Cheetos, paying 15% interest on their $10,000 rolling credit card balance, and growing ever more dependent on the welfare/warfare state to provide and protect them from accepting personal responsibility for their lives. A minority of critical thinking people have chosen to question everything they see and hear being spewed at us by the propagandist mainstream media, the corporate fascist government, and the powerful banking cabal that has an iron grip upon our throats as they choke the life out of the global economy in their never ending desire for more riches and more power.

The decline of the Great American Empire cannot be attributed to one factor or one bogeyman. There are a multitude of factors, villains, and choices made by the American people that have led to our moral, civil, social, and economic decline. The kabuki theater that passes for our electoral process is little more than a diversion from our imminent fate. Neither candidate for President has any intention of changing the course of the U.S. Titanic. Our rendezvous with destiny has been charted, and there aren’t nearly enough lifeboats. Those who built the ship and recklessly navigated it into a sea of icebergs will be the 1st into the few lifeboats. The leaders we’ve chosen, the choices we’ve made, and our unwillingness to deal with facts and reality have set in motion a disaster that cannot be averted. It’s a shame the majority of Americans have the math aptitude of a 6th grader, because the unsustainability of our empire can be calculated quite easily. Math is hard for Americans, but denial and delusion are easy.

...We took the nephews to Disneyland a few years back. Probably never again. Do people have no sense of spacial engineering—that the park was designed for walking people, carrying babies? Fuck me! Now a baby in its SUV takes up more space than a 300 pound man. ...The only thing to do, I guess, is go fasted, decide your designation, then see how fast you can get there through the gauntlet of immovable objects and baby SUV objects—being over-protected by parents who believe every second of a baby's life must be managed by authority from above.

...I'm hating America more an more. From both sides: the loss of what it was vs. the complete imbecile it's becoming. Having lived a long while in other cultures, visiting other cultures, how come America hasn't one that lasts over hundreds of years, at least on the fundamentals of raising kids, how to feed them, minimally raise them, let them get a sense of themselves (see Free Range Kids for more on that particularity)? From the same post.

If I wanted to be politically correct, I’d call the fat asses cruising on their “free” rascal scooters, the weight challenged disabled on their powered mobility enhancement vehicles. You know a trend has become a massive scam, when South Park dedicates an entire show to the shame of obesity and the scooter brigade. The majority of the scooter squad jamming up the boardwalk was less than 50 years old. They weren’t disabled. They were just too obese and lazy to wobble down the boardwalk to the next junk food joint. They were certainly in the right place. The Wildwood boardwalk is home to pizza topped with cheese fries, chocolate covered bacon, fried Oreos, funnel cake topped with powdered sugar, and 64 ounce sugar laced lemonade. The place would make Nanny Bloomberg’s head explode.

We’ve all seen the commercials for the Scooter store urging anyone on Medicare to rush in and get a power scooter or wheelchair “at little or no cost to you”. The entitlement “free shit” mentality permeates our culture. There is a cost and it is over $800 million per year, paid for by the 53% who pay Federal taxes.  Records from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services show that the cost of motorized scooters and wheelchairs to the government health service for senior citizens rose 179% between 1999 and 2009, the last year for which full records are available. This data is fascinating as the number of Americans over the age of 65 only increased by 18% over this same time frame. The bill in 1999 was $259 million; in 2009 it was $723 million – and is surely over $1 billion today. This is another billion dollar scam being funded by your tax dollars, but there are no spending cuts possible according to our beloved Congressmen.

A recent report by Medicare’s inspector general also showed that 61% of the motorized wheelchairs provided to Medicare recipients in the first half of 2007 went to people who didn’t qualify for them. (Only people who cannot get around without one are supposed to be eligible.) The inspector general found that Medicare is billed an average of $4,018 for a motorized wheelchair that normally sells for $1,048. As a taxpayer, you will be shocked to find out that people are selling their “no cost” Rascal 600 B mobility scooters on eBay. I’m sure the keen eyed government drones working in the Health & Human Services agency are policing the resale of taxpayer paid for scooters. I find it amusing that scooters have various naming classes, just like BMW and Mercedes. The vast majority of people I see tooling around on their “mobility scooters” are just plain fat. They aren’t over 65 years old. On my Sunday bike ride I was flabbergasted and amused by the sight of a 350 pound woman on a Rascal with the pedal to the metal pulling a 275 pound man in a wheelchair attached by rope. The plague of slow metabolism is sweeping the countryside.

It's like there is no foundation...no knowledge that ought to take teams of elephants, semi trucks and Saturn V rockets to change? It's like we just all popped up sometime in the 1900s and now need "scientists" and "experts" to tell us how to raise kids, minutely. News: those scientists and experts live at the foot of dirt scratching savages who came before and figured out how to get a viable baby to become a productive member of the tribe so as to perpetuate survival. Dumbness. How long will y'all rest on the mantle of vaccines?

...Ah, I'm getting bored.

[For an update, please see: Lemons to Lemonade Documentary - Ed]

My impetus for the post was just to suggest that someone do a new website to shame Fat Mobilers publicly, and I'm serious. Do a website where people can upload YouTube video publicly shaming people who clearly ought not be using a scooter (as the article I linked expounds upon, it's a $billion + scam you pay for).

Call out their fat, lazy, pathetic asses right out in public. I will love to see it. I will promote it. I will participate. Someone do it and make a million bucks, please.

No mercy. No quarter. Fuck them.

[For an update, please see: Lemons to Lemonade Documentary - Ed]

Update: Judging by comments so far, a lot of people didn't fully get the rant, so here's some points of clarification, in no particular order:

  1. I am not making fun of fat people in general. I was one. I'm making fun of a) throwing in the towel, getting on a scooter and exacerbating the situation and b) the fact that taxpayers often pay for these things and apparently, for many who don't need it other than they don't want to walk to go get more cheap junk to eat.
  2. I don't buy the idea that most fat people who are obese have some sort of magical metabolic derangement that prevents them from being not fat. To gauge the difference, look at the obesity rates back in the 60s in the US. That's probably a truer notion of actual metabolic derangement than the 30% now.
  3. I do care about being helpful, that's what this blog is about in many ways, after all. But I and commenters and other bloggers can only help those who want it.
  4. If you're currently on a scooter and working to get off, I have no beef with you and I encourage you to keep at it and will be the first in line clapping when you do.
  5. Unlike others, I think shame, even public shame, is a far more effective motivator of good social behavior than laws, regulations, public incentives. This is an issue that won't go away as healthcare becomes increasingly socialized and people come to realize they're paying for another's ability to indulge in obvious pathological behavior.

There that should about do it.

Comments

  1. Make sure you interview each person you plan to shame, you know, just to make sure they qualify totally for your shaming videos. Some fat person may actually have a need for one, not even related to being fat. But fact-checking might take too much effort…

    • Thanks for that, Julie. This post has some very valid points buried under the usual negative reinforcement. People aren’t going to be helped by humiliation any more than alcoholics are going to be helped by constant nagging to stop drinking. As a fat guy in a wheelchair (trimollealar fracture + ankle dislocation), and as a two-year CrossFitter trying to bounce back from a life of fattitude, alcoholism and self-destruction, posts like this just make me shake my head. This guy has the power to share positive, real, honest information for the benefit of humanity…and he squanders that power to be a total asshat. Bad form.

      • Jake:

        If you’re trying to bounce back I have nothing but encouragement for you. Nothing but.

      • Good to hear. I like the attitude that you bring to your page, but this article (and the article referenced) and what it encourages reminds me of my experiences as a fat sixth-grader. That it took me over 25 years to pull my head out of my ass to see that I was “FAT”…not “fluffy” or “chubby” or any of our other sad attempts at euphemisms for fat people that we use…stings enough. Now that I’ve felt the power of movement and positive reinforcement, there’s no turning back, even with an injury. That said, there are a lot of people that could use the wake-up call that I had, but humiliating them isn’t going to be any more effective with grade school level jabs, well-meaning or not. The guy in the picture that you shared deserves better than to be photographed and presented for humiliation. At that weight, I can attest to the fact that more than just diet and exercise have gone astray. He is likely dealing with several co-morbidities, and his doctor – and there have been studies around this – might take him less than seriously because of his weight. Ultimately, it’s up to him to make the decision to change, so I’m not going to blame society for whatever predicament he’s in. That decision might be a little easier with a sharp reality check coupled with more compassion and less ridicule. Just my two cents, which may or may not be worth a shit to you. Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

      • Alright, Jake, but things are as things roll.

        Are you telling me the guy is blameless? Yea, maybe he is beyond simple measures, but I don’t give a fuck about him. I really, really don’t. I think he got himself to that situation over years and years, and I would not even give a shit normally, except that now everyone who isn’t is picking up the tab got his “mobility,” because he’s TOO FUCKING FAT TO STAY FAT by frequenting his delights.

        I just do not give a fuck. I really, really don’t and I am overjoyed, overjoyed I tell you to risk the scorn of other fat fuck mobiles in similar situations.

        If they have issues other than morbidity for which they can’t walk, I’m open to dispensation.

        I’m fucking tired of this.

        No shame?

        Fuck that. Maximum shame. On the airwaves, in videos, names and addresses. That’s what I want.

        I want to see a 35 year old mother publicly shamed in video that goes viral in front of her 3-4 kids.

        I am dead serious. Judge it however you want.

        See, I actually care about those kids. And I’ve seen that scene over and over.

      • The thing is…if you care about the kids before the mother, you’re kind of putting the chicken before the egg, no? Change the mom’s perspective, and you have a better parent for her (current and future) children, and 4-5 healthier people instead of 3-4.

        We aren’t necessarily beyond a wake-up call at 35, or 40, which is where I am now. As far, as I’m concerned, life lessons/revelations can be learned until the day we die.

        What is the expected outcome of a mother being ridiculed in front of her children? For some, it might be a wake-up call. For others, it might be the thing that pushes them in the other direction…the acceptance of a lifelong failure to get and stay healthy. Is that really the answer?

      • I don’t presume to know any answer beyond calling things how I see them, Jake, as directly as possible.

      • Wow, you’re an asshole.

      • You referring to me, Joe?

        Hey, I’m been calling myself that for at least a decade, now, so I suppose I ought congratulate you on your marvelous insight.

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        One of my patients who has multiple sclerosis gets around with a scooter. He’s not overweight at all, if anything he’s underweight, but he has informed me that people are very hostile toward him. He does whatever he can to maximize his fitness and uses sticks whenever he can. But for longer distances, he relies on the scooter. Which btw is freaking heavy. I put it in the back of my car once. Once was enough.

        Sure, there are real porkers beyond porkers sitting in scooters. Their bodies appear like fat in bags. How did they get like that? Is there a pre-existing condition that did not include obesity but mobility issues?

        I’ve seen people on scooters who have oxygen tanks and nasal canulae. Could be terminal due to congestive heart failure secondary to asthma. Could be too many cigarettes. Could be rhematoid arthritis, lupus, or an assortment of other terrible connective tissue either inherited or auto-immune disorders. Or even scoliosis, cerebral palsy…. the list goes on.

        Who the hell knows. But I’m sure it’s pretty depressing to be trying to get around in a scooter or electric wheelchair.

        I figure the super fatties in scooters have totally blown out knees. Good luck getting them up and about even if you starve them half to death. They would require knee replacements but without a capacity for rehab and physio, it wouldn’t work out.

        Generally, unless it’s a patient and I know about their medical issues, I mind my own business.

      • “One of my patients who has multiple sclerosis gets around with a scooter.”

        This is the farthest thing in the world from what I’m talking about.

        I wish him well and yea, if you’ve gotten to the point where you need the oxgen add-on package, I guess.

        My main beef is with the vast majority of people in them with no apparent condition that they need them. They just want them. Most are just slightly obese. I’ve written off the truly obese anyway. What i do isn’t about them, unless they really want the help.

    • Julie:

      Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

      Go fuck off. I have smart people here. And go fuck off for being completely unwilling to get the point.

      Most particularly, fuck the 90% + of under 70 people in fat mobiles who don’t need to be.

      BYW, you probably didn’t read the linked post—as people like you never, ever do—but I did add in a quote from it you probably didn’t see.

      In short, the HUGE majority of people in those things ought not be in them. That would be fine, except that people not in them are paying for it.

      • You are quite laughable these days. Hopefully, you will someday be able to live YOUR life, instead of whining about everyone elses.

      • Julie, do you actually think for more than a second before writing something so stupid?

        Why the fuck are you here? Why don’t you go live your life instead of worrying about how I live mine? I’m the one writing the blog, for nearly 10 years, now. If you have a blog, or anything of import to offer, I sure as hell don’t know about it.

      • I’ve read your blog for quite awhile now. I don’t have to have a blog to assert an opinion. I simply responded to this posting, and you have difficulty taking a differing opinion. If you put it out there, it would be prudent to deal with responses without “fuck off” as your only sentiment.

  2. I think they already invented that site, it’s called peopleofwalmart.com

  3. One of the latest episodes of South Park was all about this. It ended with a “sketti” wrasttlin’ match between Cartman on a Rascal and Honey Boo Boo with her newly transplanted ‘sassy’ pig’s heart. I think you’d appreciate it.

    Here’s a snippet:
    http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/htl0qp/a-hog-with-pizzazz

    • Dylsboz

      Didn’t see the episode but know about it and tweeted and FBd couple of clips from it yesterday. Actually, it’s linked to in the post I linked in the blog.

  4. It is those very dregs of society that look to anyone/everyone else for the cause/reason for there own issues/problems. People that refuse to keep looking for answers. People that refuse to get out of there own way and seek real answers. People that await the next pill to fix what ever ails them. Elect then next maximum leader because he/she said what I wanted to hear. Rather than base anything in their lives on true substance or knowledge, they go through life feeling their opinions are correct. Feeling tat society owes them for mere exsistance. Feeling like everyone is against them. If people actually understood true freedom and self reliance and self motivation and self worth and not have a parasitical force known as government give them a warm fuzzy everything would be better.

    Nothing like having to be your own driving force.

    • Oh, but Steven.

      What about what Julie said.

      I still haven’t stopped crying.

      • A pox on her.

        As I see it, these fools take liberty with my time/tax money/air plane seats/increased health costs/more tax money/special interest groups/special stalls installed to poop in causing many businesses to rethink bathroom upgrades/special laws AD NAUSEUM!!!

        Why can’t I take liberty and call them fat/stupid/lazy/dependent/sloven/sloth/hate filled scum.

      • Because they aren’t ALL like that, you pompous, overgeneralizing little fuckshit.

      • I come from a family of heavy people. Some would be considered morbidly obese. I happen to have issues with fat storage myself. I tend to keep it if I am not careful.

        My solution, I have not had soda in years. Nor cakes. Nor sugar laden foods. I love to eat big. Real big. I had 3 lbs of meat last night in fact but I fasted for 21 hours before that. I am on a 23 hour fast now, again as I know dinner tonight will be epic again. I take precautions. I do not eat carb rich foods. I walk and exercise a lot. I have a serious sweet tooth. I used to eat 8ozs of chocolate a day. Now I do not touch the stuff as I know I will eat a lot if I do. I now maintain 8-9% body fat. I do not have cheat days once a week. Maybe once every 2 months. I stay vigilant. I know what it takes to stay healthy and lean. I have worked for it.

        Everyone else who does not: lazy. Pure and simple.

      • So you’re doing awesome things. I think that’s…awesome.

        Yet despite having a family and your own experiences to refer to, are you in support of public humiliation? Did you become diligent in your health pursuits because of public humiliation, or did you just get out of your own way and do it?

        Because, really…having the background that you speak of, I would expect blunt honesty and a reality check to get you up and running, but not outright humiliation.

        I just fail to see the point of humiliating someone instead of just trying to help them, or leaving them alone altogether.

      • Humiliation is not an action done to help change people. When it is used, it’s because of something internal to the person doing the humiliating.

      • I am passing my humiliation out in the sense of reciprocity. They humiliate the very thing it means to be alive. Just tossing it back.

      • No one told you that you couldn’t. Thanks for the pox. :-)

    • This speaks to me directly, and I’m glad to be away from this kind of thinking:

      “People that refuse to keep looking for answers. People that refuse to get out of there own way and seek real answers. People that await the next pill to fix what ever ails them.”

      We are STILL doing this (fat or not fat, a lot of people aren’t satisfied with themselves), and it’s going to slowly kill us if we don’t have a major paradigm shift about good eating/movement and it’s importance to leading a happier, healthier life.

      Just remember, life experiences vary from person to person. I still think that humiliation isn’t the best approach here.

      Maybe I just want Richard to tell me to fuck off, too, so that I can feel like I’ve been on a Gordon Ramsay reality show.

  5. ladysadie1 says:

    Wow,defending the lowest common denominator on FTA? Holy Christ, Richard, maybe you should just post a nursery rhyme to make these “mobility” folks feel good?

  6. ladysadie1 says:

    oops, and I meant Others are defending the fat riders…

  7. Rich,
    chill on the America hate. You’re consuming too much media. Take a media/news holiday.
    While not perfect, America ain’t bad.

    • Sure, Steve, I know this. In the large. There are some pretty outrageous aspects, though. I think it’s a good thing to point them out audaciously.

      Have always done so, will always do so. I wouldn’t if I was indifferent.

  8. Gordon Shannon says:

    Fucking. Political. Bullshit. Fucking. Stupid. Liberals/Conservatives.

    Sorry, had to vent my frustration over the ignorant commentary on the debate somewhere. This seemed like the obvious place for it.

    • Ha, the debate. Yea, I was driving up to Menlo Park to have dinner with Peter Attia, the guy along with Gary Taubes behind the new NuSI deal. Heard the debate in the car on the way up.

      Eye roll.

      I assure you that my 3 hr conversation with Peter was far more interesting. Very cool what they are cooking up. I’m going to try to help. Hell, even Gary and Stephan seen to be on cordial terms once again.

      • Gordon Shannon says:

        I haven’t checked out the NuSI stuff. I’ll have to look into it.

        On the subject 80/20, my wife and I have been feeling pretty shitty for the past few days, which has made eating protein a chore. We pretty much got to the stage where we had to fast because we craved *nothing*. But needing *some* metabolic fuel, it turns out that a $1 large Coke from McD is a pretty convenient way to grab some calories. All in moderation, without the dogmatic BS.

  9. Sixty-four years of doing my best to follow the common wisdom cannot be undone quickly. It takes time to get healthy once you finally find the path. How long has ancestral health/Paleo/Primal been taught to the masses? What’s that you say; it hasn’t yet become mainstream? So, those of us who stumbled onto it are just lucky and maybe should be congratulated instead of humiliated? For the 45 pounds I’ve lost so far even though I have a great deal yet to go?

    BTW, I bought and paid for my own mobility scooter but only use it when my pain makes walking not possible.

    • Linda, bravo. You did not quit. Well done. I hope your story will repeated by others in their own way. We are not harping on the likes of folks like you, it is against those that up and quit. You my friend are an inspiration.

    • Linda

      Like I said, I wish nothing but encouragement for anyone trying to get off that scooter if there’s ultimately no reason to be on it. If that takes time, it takes time and you’ll get nothing but encouragement from me, as will everyone on that path.

      In general, this is not what I am seeing. I’m seeing the exact opposite. Worse and worse, year by year.

      • I agree–it is definitely frustrating to see a society that punishes (rather than rewards) self-improvement. The powers that be prefer us to be glued to our chairs in front of a TV spewing nonsense. Any self-counseling is seen as crazy. Who am I supposed to listen to, Dr. Oz? Fuck that guy.

        It’s all skewed: I work in film/TV occasionally, and I can’t stand that people think size 0 women are healthy b/c they’re skinny. I was monitoring sound once and an actor left her mic on–I pretty much heard every retch as she barfed up her lunch. Yet the looks of scorn I get for being a whopping 11 lbs over-fat. Very, very fucked up.

        Though I get a little frustrated at the stalled fat loss, it’s sure better to be 132lbs than 149, on my small frame that was enough for me to always look soft, bloated, and unhealthy. Wouldn’t you know it, I was a vegetarian for 2 years, even dabbled in veganism and raw foods b/c I listened to naturally lean people telling me that diet would guarantee optimal health. So glad my inner voice quickly said, “You’ve gained 20 lbs, this ain’t working, try the opposite.” Had I listened to my TV I’d still be counting calories on a treadmill and wondering if I was going to be tired and kinda fat forever.

        Wake up, America–follow the money trail and realize most of the information out there is designed to benefit anyone but you.

  10. Zerojosh says:

    It takes a pretty big man to pick on people in wheel chairs.

    • I have a friend whom is a quadriplegic but is still a personal trainer. As in his job is to show up at a gym and coach people on how to work out. He knows his own self worth.

    • Oh go fuck off, ZERO.

    • I think wheelchairs are much more dignified than scooters. I have known total badasses who are confined to wheelchairs. Every seen the film “Murderball”?

      But it is impossible to be a badass while on a scooter. The scooter is a black hole that sucks in all the badassedness within a 20 yard radius.

      • Word, rob.

        Have you EVER seen a person in a wheelchair that didn’t need to be in one? I don’t recall it. This scooter thing is a wholly new phenomena and its sucking in WAY too many, and most don’t need it. Worse, others are paying for it. Just look at those disgusting The Scooter Store ads on the TeeVee.

      • Motorized or not? Pushed by a co-dependent or not?

      • The classic wheelchair that a person pushes around themselves is an fabulous invention that allows people without legs or functioning legs to retain vast dignity. Many or those people develop amazing abilities and strength in their arms.

        This, I love.

        I don’t know I recall ever seeing a person in an electric wheelchair with a joystick (or blow tube) who didn’t have seriously compromised arms as well. Being pushed around was typically just the “poor man’s version” of that.

        All my life I’ve felt nothing but sympathy for people confined to wheelchairs. The reason I don’t feel such sympathy so often for those using scooters is that I have eyes and a brain.

  11. More than the fat mobility scooters it’s the kids in prams that bother me the most. Probably because I never see fat mobility scooters but plenty of the old and infirm on them. I don’t know whether they are available “free” in the UK or not which might make a difference.
    Fat arsed mums wheeling their kids about then going to the gym…does that make any sense? But mostly it’s for the kids. Being held means the kid is not only being held (good for their psychological state) but also using their own muscles to remain in balance and upright.
    When I see the pampered little veal calves being wheeled about I worry about the future.

    • Amy Haines says:

      I’m with you there, Neal. Once a week, we head into town to the grocery store for our weekly stock up. I usually see one or two elderly, obese people using a scooter to get along in the store – their basket is full of crackers and pasta, boxed pies, canned products. Seldom anything veg or meats. Perhaps they buy those things on other trips, perhaps they don’t know any better. Or don’t like veggies. Likely many of them are on disability and are stretching their checks by buying whatever crap items are on sale, thinking they are getting a bargain.

      But they are also mostly older people who, as Woo pointed out above, have no chance in hell of changing because they are surrounded by people who give them the wrong info, and as you age, change becomes more difficult. I only partly blame them, mostly I feel bad for them.

      But the kids? I saw a 10 or 11 year old child occupying a shopping cart. The kid was playing a video game while his dad pushed the cart around absently, trying to fit his purchases in the spaces around his son’s body. Why not get up and walk? The child was not disabled, I also saw them in the parking lot and the boy jumped out of the cart (video game still in hand) and into the car. Any child old enough to walk and follow you should be doing so. Not only is it exercise, it is a chance to involve them in one of the more mundane but necessary life experiences: modern food foraging and making better/best choices in the grocery store.

      • “it is a chance to involve them ”
        that’s another one, thanks!

      • It’s not (only) a matter of “hey, that kid could walk!” Usually, the parent with the rolling-child has a *schedule* to meet. Yeah s/he COULD make the kid walk: and take twice as long to do the shopping, and so be a half-hour or more late to pick up the 8-yr-old at the school ball-field, and thus get accused of being a bad parent for leaving a youngster ‘unguarded’ out in public because s/he was so late to pick the it up. It’s a lovely delusion that everyone has the TIME to dawdle and coax and wait and urge and finally yell and pick up a child. Modern society doesn’t let us live on ‘child-time’ — we have places to go and things to get done. Is it inconvenient to have kids? It IS! And sometimes that inconvenience means we made a less-desired choice for one kid, in order to manage another.

      • Wow, the excuses for fucking despicable behavior just keep staking up.

        Fucking time warp me back to 1968 or so, please.

      • Ha! Americans don’t believe me when I’m telling them I used to go to the grocery stores by myself since as young as 6 years of age. I lived in a small town with several stores within a 2-kilometer radius instead of one giant supermarket (i.e. one bakery, one butcher’s, etc.). I would walk to them on my own while both of my parents were at work (no nannies or babysitters, spent half of my time home alone) then bring several kilos worth of stuff home (fifth floor, no elevator). I also did most of my homework by myself (unless I needed some help from my parents), had time to play outside with friends and did a lot of reading. Once we moved to a big city, I used public transportation to get around to various activities (we didn’t own a car until we moved to the States).

        Everyone I knew, even more privileged kids, were like that. My husband (he’s from Minsk) was sent by his parents to the grocery store downstairs when he was three (!). And you’re telling me you can’t make a ten-year old trail you in the supermarket? Is he going to get tired, poor baby? And you can’t leave him at home because you didn’t teach him to be self-sufficient?

        My former co-worker has a fifteen year old girl who she gets babysitter for. Admittedly, it’s a bit extreme even for the US, and she knows it. So now she either sends her to a friend when the friend’s mother is at home or just goes to stay with her. She never leaves her alone. It’s probably not directly related, by the poor girl is quite obese and thinks her day is very tiring if she has to go to school or do anything other than dress up and watch TV. Her mother is actually a nice, hardworking woman (and thin), but the daughter is a prime candidate for the fat mobile, I’m afraid.

      • Amy Haines says:

        Modern society doesn’t let us live on ‘child-time’ — we have places to go and things to get done.

        So…fuck modern society, then. I’m a baby-wearer. Have been since my oldest (now almost four years old) was an infant. Why don’t I have places to go, and things to get done? Myth; I do, and I get things done, but I don’t have extreme pressure on them, because we (myself, my spouse, and our kids) have learned to live with less, and with fewer obligations to any activities or causes that might take up unnecessary hours in our lives. Sorry, but I live for myself and my family. I do not work, though I might easily be able to (and would only work to pay daycare expenses and have little else to show for my salary – so where’s the incentive? btw, I HAVE THE COLLEGE EDUCATION, not my husband, yet he would out-earn me any day as a skilled tradesman versus a teacher). We purposefully moved to our current locale because we wanted to be able to raise a family on one income (my husband’s, in {horror!} a traditional fashion). Others are not unable to make such choices; only unwilling, near as I can tell.

        I manage three children, aged 4, 2, and 2 months, in the grocery store, at the farm market, in the home, and within a home-based pre-school setting with no more effort than your average daycare provider or Kindergarten teacher might exert. We shop, go to the local farms, visit “touch and learn” museums, the library, and eat at restaurants from time to time. How? I can only posit that it comes down what I expect of our children.

        Poor time management likely makes for a lot of problems in modern child rearing. So, take stock of what time you have available and use if for what it is worth. If you can’t manage your schedule without pushing your lackadaisical 10 year old around in a cart so you don’t forget to pick up your wound-up and neglected 8-year old after sports practice, you are probably doing it wrong.

        Sorry, but sports and grades and an over-wrought schedule will not make you a great success. Ability, aptitude, and the desire of pursuit are vastly more important.

      • Word, Amy.

        Don’t even get me started on the hyper schedualization of kids. Whole other rant.

        I have family members, two very highly compensated layers, wonderful house, the idyllic girl and boy. They really are great kids but their mom has run their schedule since birth like a drill sergeant and fortunately has had a nanny the whole time too.

        I wonder if those kids have had a truly independent thought their entire lives.

        They’ll probably grow up to be lawyers who go to Catholic Church every Sunday to show face, too.

      • Amy Haines says:

        As far as Catholicism goes, they might be better off going their own way and re-discovering “their religion” away from any parental influence. I’m an apostate Catholic who, nonetheless, cannot wholly renounce many of the (what I see as) righteous teachings of my faith even though I’ve lived a life outside of the doctrinal proscriptions on proper behavior.

        I don’t think children need an over-structured life, especially at young ages. Maybe by age 7 or 8 they are ready for more directed education, but my observance of my own kids and of other children has shown me that kids are ALWAYS (and I mean ALWAYS) learning, hence my comment about the opportunity to show children how to shop for food. Whether you show them how to argue as adults, how to be passionate about a subject of academic learning, or handicraft, or even another person, how to be self-sufficient and self-sustaining, or how to appreciate negative influences (i.e., debate the merits of your position), you can never, ever think that any child in regular proximity to you is learning anything other than what you teach them. And if you teach them that they are secondary (or, increasingly, tertiary or quaternary, or lower, in your hierarchy), then they will lose respect for any other lesson, no matter how noble, you may teach them.

      • Amy Haines says:

        That might work for a 2- or 3-year old. By age 10? No. I would expect a 10-year old child to fetch whatever needful things were on the list as I waited in line to pay. And I would trust the 10-year old to fetch those things and not be kidnapped in the meantime – horrible and inattentive mom that I am!

    • dr. gabriella kadar says:

      Oh yes, Neal, I totally agree. There are 5 and 6 year olds being pushed in strollers/pushchairs.

      These kids are cripples in the making. Their muscle and leg development will be adversely affected. They’ll be knock kneed or worse. Their cardiac and lung function won’t keep up with the growth of their bodies.

      This practice is so pervasive.

      When my kids were toddlers, I used a harness and leash. In England this was standard practice. In Canada people were offended that I was treating my children like dogs. Bunch of stupids. The point was my kids were getting physical activity and I didn’t have to worry they’d run into the street. By the time my older kid was 3 years old, she was running a mile a day because she enjoyed herself doing so. No one ever pushed her. We’d go out with the dog and the dog and I would have to keep up with her.

      I feel sorry for all these kids whose parents prevent them from experiencing the living joy in their bodies and feeling free.

  12. “If anyone needs to be shamed and ridiculed it’s the people at the top promoting the junk science and scam drugs/therapies which makes sure this guy stays a cripple in his chair and many others follow suit.”

    fuck yeah!

  13. Nice comment, Woo. As always.

  14. Once at the SuperWalmart I saw a mother/daughter scooter combo, mom was in her 50′s with daughter in her 30′s. You know you’re a bad parent if your kid winds up following you around the Walmart on a scooter.

  15. here is a link to a site that is somewhat related- appears children are sometimes pushed around in strollers quite some time after they are capable of walking around on their own- but maybe it’s the parents who are lazy because they can’t stand to hear their kids whine ?

    http://www.toobigforstroller.com/

    • Is that anything like people who carry dogs in purses?

    • dr. gabriella kadar says:

      What about the kids who are wearing diapers until age 6? These pull up diapers for children……(I’m not supposed to use bad language.)

      It’s an all round phenomenon of infantilism.

      Edward VI of England (son of Henry VIII) was writing essays in at least 4 languages at age 8 when the children of today’s ‘developed world’ are finally graduating from not needing diapers at night.

      There is so little expected of children these days.

  16. Simon Carter says:

    Hey, Richard, where was your shame when YOU were a fat fuck?
    Also, you wrote “…I’m hating America more an more. From both sides: the loss of what it was vs. the complete imbecile it’s becoming.” You should kiss the ground of this country that PROTECTS your right as an AMERICAN to be a douchebag!
    And I say that as an emigrant to this country, YOU FAT FUCK!
    yeah, yeah, I know…fuck you!

  17. ladysadie1 says:

    OT (sort of?)

    I just read this horrible NYT article, and it’s even worse than the fat mobiles:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/attention-disorder-or-not-children-prescribed-pills-to-help-in-school.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&smid=tw-nytimes&partner=rss&emc=rss

    Please add this to the list of things to be outraged about, please?

    • Amy Haines says:

      I commented as much eslewhere regarding this story:

      Drugging children in this fashion not only reduces the child to drone status, it also reduces the parents to breeders, plain and simple, with no real input into the development of their offspring. Cattle. Sheep. Livestock to be sent to the eventual slaughter or ritual alter at the master’s whim.

      • Better to KNOW you’re livestock, than think you’re a free human!!

      • dr. gabriella kadar says:

        Isn’t the whole point of raising children these days to provide ‘tax payers’ and ‘consumers’? So the onus is on the state and corporations, not on the parents.

  18. I just appended an update to the post:

    Update: Judging by comments so far, a lot of people didn’t fully get the rant, so here’s some points of clarification, in no particular order:

    1. I am not making fun of fat people in general. I was one. I’m making fun of a) throwing in the towel, getting on a scooter and exacerbating the situation and b) the fact that taxpayers often pay for these things and apparently, for many who don’t need it other than they don’t want to walk to go get more cheap junk to eat.

    2. I don’t buy the idea that most fat people who are obese have some sort of magical metabolic derangement that prevents them from being not fat. To gauge the difference, look at the obesity rates back in the 60s in the US. That’s probably a truer notion of actual metabolic derangement than the 30% now.

    3. I do care about being helpful, that’s what this blog is about in many ways, after all. But I and commenters and other bloggers can only help those who want it.

    4. If you’re currently on a scooter and working to get off, I have no beef with you and I encourage you to keep at it and will be the first in line clapping when you do.

    5. Unlike others, I think shame, even public shame is a far more effective motivator of social good behavior than laws, regulations, public incentives. This is an issue that won’t go away as healthcare becomes increasingly socialized and people come to realize they are paying for another’s ability to indulge in obvious pathological behavior.

    There that should about do it.

    • No reason to ‘splain yourself. As for me – been looking to load up on the carbs so I can look respectable in a scooter

      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Rs53-MPsJaI/S06k0r_kiKI/AAAAAAAAP98/QRPJOz5fcGo/s400/spaghetti-medium.jpg

    • “For example, rates of HIV were like 0% in 1960, then circa 1980 it became epidemic amongst groups of people at high risk for blood exposure (hemopheliacs, IV drug users, receptive anal sex/gay men…). By this logic, HIV isn’t a real disease, just a social phenomenon which people can change any time they want to by exercising more/eating less.”

      No, the analogy does not stretch that far (my latest post about my meeting with Peter Attia has more on that). HIV is a known pathogen. So far, we don’t know of a pathogen that causes obesity. However, both HIV and obesity can be prevented by behavioral measures.

      For the rest of it on #2, you’re talking about a predisposition. But American Indians and other groups living in their natural environments weren’t generally obese either. Introduce them to white flour and sugar and they get obese faster, get diabetes more often, and on and on. So, they are predisposed too, but they never had to be fat and they ate plenty of natural carbohydrates in those natural foods as well. A tendency is not a cause. It’s merely a greater chance should behavior not be kept in check. It’s the behavior that’s the ultimate cause. So the real solution is to nail down what behaviors (like drinking 3-4 sugar drinks per day) are most likely to trigger the tendency to become obese because of it.

      #5: That shame motivates behavior is _a priori_. See Sean’s comment on that.

      Super glad you changed your behavior, leading to your weight loss. The education you gave yourself is also behavioral. There’s probably no single factor and I would guess that the shame you endured played some role as well. Occam’s Razor.

  19. Sorry Wooo, but as I just posted in the update to the post, I don’t buy into this metabolic derangement deal. My mom was obese every second of my young life and most of her friends were obese. I saw what they ate, how often they ate, etc. This went on the decades. She didn’t develop T2 until into her 60s. And since, she has been able to lose significant weight by BOTH eating real food and ALSO eating less food (and weight training probably helped as well).

    I’d say probably that no shit metabolic derangement that LEADS to obesity is damn low. That’s why there are a lot of countries, still, with obesity rates under 5%.

    For most, they eat too much. I had dinner last night with Peter Attia and we talked a lot about the Taubes/Guyenet debate (those two are now talking again, BYW). Peter and I pretty much agree they are both right, but from different angles.

    Why do people become fat & overweight? It’s that 300 extra calories per day (much from non-satiating sugar drinks) on average since the 70s and 80s. Why do they KEEP eating those extra calories? Food engineering, marketing, convenience, etc. That part is Guyenet.

    But I thing Taubes is completely right that part of the reason that people don’t STOP once they see what’s happening and keep piling on fat is hormonal dysregulation.

    The question to answer for me is: is the hormonal dysregulation primarily a function of excess calories, or crap carbohydrate? How about the difference between a sweet potato and a sugar drink? A French baguette and a loaf of Wonder Bread? A croque-monsieur and a Big Mac?

    People begin to get fat because they eat to much. The question is WHY do they eat too much and continue to eat too much? I think both Guyenet and Taubes have valuable hypotheses to test along these lines. I’m pretty jazzed about what NuSI is going to be doing.

    • “In the real world, in medical facilities and clinics and hospitals, we see “metabolically derranged” patients like scooter man 24/7.”

      Exactly. I think your perspective is based on that observation–which I don’t doubt by the way and if I was wrapped up I’m pretty sure you and a few other nurses who’ve been in my comments would be my preference surrounding me.

      I know you care yada yada and all that.

      Anyway, I’m going to go hit the rack early, wrap my arm around the wife unit and get some sleep. I’ll read and perhaps respond more in the morning, Nighty night.

    • Wooo:

      “If you have certain diseases you may not be able to safely walk long distances. People on scooters usually have medical reasons they can’t walk.”

      This is not my point. It’s the millions upon millions now on scooters who CAN safely walk. I see it all the time. I’ll bet that in the southeast US you see it tons. And these scooters are being paid for with other people’s money in many cases.

      The other thing is that you primarily deal with outliers.

      Finally, it’s not like all these people woke up one day morbidly obese. It took years, often decades to get that way. Which means no, not gluttonous and lazy. It just takes a couple hundred extra calories per day over a long time and I maintain that the chief culprit is sugar drinks. They were always around, but it wasn’t until the 70s and 80s they came to be seen as something beyond an indulgence now and then. And of course, fruit juice. When I was a kid, OJ was something you have for Sunday breakfast in a 4oz juice cup. Now it’s “the more the better” because it’s “healthy.”

      I agree that there are many factors to why someone eventually becomes super obese and yes, I also agree that for many there will often be all the downstream maladies. None of this has anything to do with my post.

      I think the reward thing (like sugar drinks) explains more about why someone begins getting overweight in the first place. Then at some tipping point it’s the hormonal dysregulation that becomes the primary factor. In other words, even for a single individual, it may not be possible to pin their morbid obesity on a single cause, reward OR hormones. Probably both, with reward playing the initial role and then hormones (metabolic derangement) bringing it home.

    • Great Post Woo!

  20. Cowrinthians 9 Chapter 6 Verse 22: And the Lord spaketh unto the masses, spakething, “Let the first among you in a glass house throw dirt clods at a hooker.”

    Well I can no make for any judgings on lazy big fat fuck, cuz I lazy drug addict fuck. But I still looking very sexy, so is mostly okay with society, yes? At least you no paying for my stash, Richard! …or is you? I guess you paying for ‘war on drug’ and all those peoples in prison for drug. Okay, maybe I owes you couple bucks.

  21. “BTW, he’s drinking a diet soda. Only diet sodas have light/white colored labels.

    Suggests to me he is definitely diabetic (my experience as a nurse: only diabetic older adults drink diet sodas). Or alternatively, he’s definitely on a diet.”

    My mom only ever drank diet sodas. I myself from the age of 20-something only drank diet soda. I did so because I like the carbonation and the flavor, but not so much the sweet. I still piled on weight in my 40s, and in spite of walking 3+ miles per day.

    Bagels, pizza, burgers, fries, and lots and lots of sunflower seeds (heavy addiction to the sunflower seeds).

    • Like I said before, it’s not like he and others like him woke up one day in that condition. Took years and years. He had thousands upon thousands of days to say to himself, “wait a minute, something is terribly wrong here.” And guess what, thousands of people ARE waking up to themselves and doing just that. I have emails from them, success stories from them, many comments on the blog from them and many other bloggers out there do as well.

      Do I wish he wasn’t in that condition? Sure. Same way I wish that smoker didn’t have lung cancer and I’m not one to say “serves you right.” But all these things happen for behavioral reasons on some level, for the vast majority of people and I don’t think it serves anyone well to sugar coat that.

  22. Paleo World can be pretty weird because of the things that get people upset. Some people are upset about this scooter post, the other day on MDA this post set me off:

    Every day, I see this heavy guy slapping his feet down on the road, with this slow, rhythmic sound. Round and round the block he goes. One day, I’m going out there, push him in the chest to stop and shout ‘Dude, you’re doing it all wrong!”
    Alison Golden wrote on October 10th, 2012

    Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-you-shouldnt-burn-more-than-4000-calories-a-week-through-exercise/#ixzz296RM8Moa

    In Paleo World you have to be tender with the feelings of the fat lady tooling around the Walmart in her scooter, but you have to mock the fat guy who is out busting his ass every morning trying to avoid having to use the scooter.

    Why mock the person who is trying to better himself?

    Because it’s Paleo World!

  23. Chris Rock said a father’s only job is to keep his daughter off the pole. Similarly, a Paleo parent’s only job is to keep their kids off the scooter.

  24. Gordon Shannon says:

    I’m thinking that you need to do a post about justice. I.e. that it can be just to *hurt people*.

    • Justice: EVERYONE gets what they DESERVE; always, no exceptions, no dispensation, no mercy.

      Of course, I don’t believe in the state, so justice gets meted out individually. So be careful of meting out injustice, lest you face justice yourself.

  25. Being obese doesn’t have to mean being pathetic, there is a guy who works out at my gym who is at least 150 pounds overweight, hasn’t lost an once in two years, but he has made himself a very strong obese person.

    He does all the barbell exercises with serious amounts of weight.

    So he is unlikely to need a scooter any time soon. Maybe he doesn’t mind being fat and losing weight isn’t important to him, who knows, nobody’s business but his. For all I know he has a smoking hot wife with a stupendous rack.

    • “For all I know he has a smoking hot wife with a stupendous rack.”

      I’ll take two small firm rockets and a stupendous ass any day.

    • I don’t know if all fat people are lazy. I think people in Paleo World tend to be lazy because so many of them seem to be seeking effortless solutions to difficult problems.

      Hack this, hack that
      4 Minute Body
      Don’t count calories!
      Exercise is for suckers

      None of the gurus ever tells their acolytes “You need to try harder.”

      Everybody is looking for a cheat.

    • “You’re assuming disabled people on scooters are too lazy to walk.”

      I’m not assuming any such thing. I absolutely know there are tons of them, and more and more. And people are using minor pretense to acquire them with other people’s money just

      Most people aren’t too lazy to walk and most people have righteous shame about riding moderate distances when they could walk. Remember the Segue? Dumbest idea ever and I’m glad it failed as the supposed great invention it was touted to be. Sure, the device has its uses just like electric carts have theirs—like for work where time is money (some postal routes use Segues, for instance). But because people can get them for free or subsidized, this overcomes their normal shame, just as it does for those who scam the system to get handicap placards.

      Google ‘handicap placard abuse’. It’s basically the same thing.

      • You mean Segway? I saw Segway tours on vacation in Europe. They’re pretty popular with tourists. I thought it was stupid and I’d rather rent a bike if I want to move faster.

      • Yea, Segway. Didn’t take the time to look it up. Yep, walk, hike, or if too far in practical terms, a bike.

      • Many choose not to be fat anymore. I have tons of testimonials, emails and comments in post to prove it and Sisson & Wolf and even Jimmy have tone more (anyone see Jimmy’s progress update, 50 ponds re-lost?). I don’t think most people choose to be fat. It’s not necessary. It simply take defaulting on what a person ought to be eating and how much of it.

        Life requires effort in all areas. Used to be not starving took a lot of effort but in today’s world of abundance that natural animal tendency has become a double edged sword.

      • Again, Wooo, and I luv you now. :)

        You must integrate the fact that you deal with outliers day in and day out.

        In fact, it should not be so very difficult for someone to maintain weight loss, or to prevent weight gain if fortunate enough to get on the real food or paleo bandwagon early. I was lean up to my late 30s. Weight cam on slowly, then at a tipping point, rapidly. I did something about it. That was 2007 and I have maintained the initial loss of 60 lbs withint 10 pounds since. It’s 2012. Yep, I could go for another 15-20 but it does not strike me as super important at 52.

        Fasting is a great tool. It’s not starvation. It is crowding 7 days into 5 or 6, and it has metabolic advantages as well as mental ones.

        You have the mind Wooo. Not everyone out here is trying to fuck people over.

        I am a fan of the paleo framework precisely because I see it as a sustainable paradigm for life. And it includes IF and it includes some measure of lifting heavy things now and then. Not to be a caveman, but for gene expression and mitochondrial function in the evolutionary milieu. No woo. That’s with two Os.

  26. dr. gabriella kadar says:

    Agree with Woo. People put on prednisone for auto-immune disease get water retention, sleep deprivation and a whole host of other problems including bone density deterioration and joint destruction regardless of weight. If they can’t move around well anymore, they end up in wheelchairs or scooters and usually, depressed, unemployed, living on disability income which doesn’t provide for affordable decent housing much less grass fed beef or pastured eggs.

    Unless a person is living in a place that accomodates the fact that they can’t stand up for long and everything from the height of kitchen counters to stove tops and bathrooms is not designed for their lowered height, then for sure their ability to prepare food for themselves is compromised. Not to mention going out and bringing home health preserving grocery food items.

    The advancement of medical treatments means that a whole heap of humans are breathing when in the past they’d have been long dead. Some of the still living probably wish they were dead. But here they are and here we are.

    If but for the grace of dog…. etc. etc.

    Judge not or….. etc. etc.

    Unless I literally get my hands on people, since I do work with my hands and my brain as opposed to just my brain, and somehow through some means once in a while whatever interaction we have actually makes a difference in the quality of their lives or how they feel about themselves or however it all works, I just mind my own bloody business.

    This all doesn’t make me some sort of bleating empath. There are people who could be doing a hell of a lot more with their lives but have settled themselves into a comfy, occasionally self destructive, mindless lifestyle niche as whiny disableds. The problem, the way I see it, and I’ve been seeing it for decades, is that disabled people have mostly only other disabled people for social interactions. The whole thing becomes a mutual reinforcing community. People who go to work, have regular schedules, raise children, pay mortgages, etc. live in a different world from those who are disabled.

    The whole nine yards of able bodied lifestyles don’t sync with people who don’t go to work because they can’t, don’t have children because they are unable, don’t get married because no one finds them attractive as a mate.

    I don’t know what’s worse: becoming disabled as a young person never being able to realize dreams and ambitions or becoming disabled as an older adult being reminded on a daily basis of what life was like when one could and now one can’t.

    I have five herniated discs one of which is still making my life a misery. Most days I live in pain. I go to work because a.) I’m stubborn, b.) my self identity would be severely destroyed by not working, c.) I can’t afford to comfortably retire yet, d.) I actually most of the time do a good job despite the fact that on too many days I could scream from the pain all the way home sitting in the car so that makes me feel like an idiot.

    But whenever I feel really sorry for myself I just think of what my grandmother went through in her life and I realize that no matter how bad things get for me, it’s nothing compared to what she lived through. I never heard her complain and she raised me.

    • “The problem, the way I see it, and I’ve been seeing it for decades, is that disabled people have mostly only other disabled people for social interactions. The whole thing becomes a mutual reinforcing community.”

      Oh, yes. And fat friends have fat friends. Believe me, I have seen it very close up.

      You know, one thing not yet mentioned is these people didn’t become this way overnight. It took decades. At a point, they decided to go for the scooter rather than the other path.

      Like I said, i’ll use a cane, crutches or whatever when/if it ever comes to it. No scooter.

  27. LOLs all around. Every Fat Girl I’ve ever seen LIVES on diet Coke. When *I* was a Fat Girl, I drank six to eight cans of diet Pepsi A DAY. Fat people LOVE diet soda.

  28. Public shame on an internet website that has long reach (with infinite time slap) is a bit different compared to public shame within community that physically knows and depends on each other.

    In all this Wall-E comes to mind

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0910970/

  29. Shame and guilt are very useful emotions that go back to long before the Neolithic era. It’s a glue for pack hunters such as wolves, as anyone who has ever said,”Bad dog!” knows. Like all emotions, they can be positive or negative, and like all emotions, they’ve been continuously selected for for a reason. In modern society it might actually actually be an advantage, at least monetarily, to not have this baggage, the so-called high functioning sociopaths, but I don’t want to change places with them.

    Anyway, I don’t buy into the touchy-feely crap that fat people shouldn’t be shamed or be made to feel guilt. The biggest problem I see is not enough shame. A lot of my extended family in the States are obese, but they seem pretty damn comfortable with their condition. And the younger they are, the more comfortable.

    Yes, shame can lead to a vicious circle of depression, etc. Yes, people trying to lose weight on a treadmill eating weight watchers frozen dinners, are stuck in a sisyphion circle of bad advice. But that doesn’t change the fact that shame and guilt are also motivating.

    Here in Prague, the Czechs are pretty socially uptight. I even get looks when I go to the playground and my kid is the only one not wearing a hat (because the sun is lethal for children, right?). But this same social pressure is why people tend to dress better and are certainly much more conscious of their weight. And I prefer to live around people who don’t think it’s okay to be orca fat and wear sweats and sneakers in public.

    The inversion of reality that the West is heading towards is that no one should ever be ashamed of being fat, that even just mocking obesity is what should actually be shamed-fat acceptance. This is like pretending that smoking is healthy or that gravity is just a state of mind. It’s socially acceptable, nay righteous, to rip on smoking, but fatties just need understanding, lots of understanding, and nothing but understanding. I don’t buy it.

    • Woo,

      Do you believe your logic makes sense here? If somebody says negative emotions, when felt in negative situations, are useful, that person is obviously encouraging a return to institutionalized racism???

      Is the lesson here “If you disagree with Woo, you will get such an absurd statement back you will be unable to actually respond?”

      • Why did you take that on?

        The notion that shaming people over behavior is equivalent to shaming them over skin color is an eye-roll, not worthy of a response. Best to just let it hang out there in the ether.

      • “Similarly, shame/embarrassment has social utility, but bullying and abusing people is NOT A VALID BEHAVIOR.”

        I re-read Sean’s (I’m not discussing Tim’s, they’re not the same, even in intent) comment just to make sure I wasn’t the one making a hugely wrong inference. The above is quoted from you, yet if you read Sean’s comment, this is exactly what he’s saying. He just allows for some ability to discern meaning, from those who might read his comment. He is not suggesting bullying as appropriate.

        “Similarly, shame/embarrassment has social utility, but bullying and abusing people is NOT A VALID BEHAVIOR.”

        Do you feel every time somebody is made to feel shame, it is bullying? If so, this explains a lot about your stance, and therefore your ability to make huge jumps in your arguments, as above.

        As far as the rest (including you doubling down on your idea that saying “Shame is useful” = ‘I want to bully others’), it reminds of the saying “If you can’t tie a knot, tie a lot’. So long as that amalgamation holds the tent up, it’s good?

      • “They then make a flying leap of teh grand canyon of logic by inferring from this truth that any instance of shame/embarrassment is therefore good and useful. ”

        I saw no such leap at all. You acknowledge that shame and embarrassment are useful social developments. We agree.

        Thing is, nobody ought be shamed when guiltless. This is a major tactic of religion and state: to shame people over what is simply natural, like getting down and dirty with a hot chick you just saw–sins of conscience.

        This is misusing, manipulatively that natural, healthy tendency to feel badly when having don’t something wrong or socially unacceptable.

        So where we disagree then is that shaming is a valid social mechanism for the obese who could do something, but don’t. I think you deal primarily with outliers, some of which perhaps just can’t for a variety of outlying metabolic derangements. I think it’s rare and that your view is skewed by the bad stuff you see (and help with best you can) day in, day out. I would probably be closer in my view to yours if I had your job, but I see only the milieu.

  30. ad ligtvoet says:

    Hi Richard,
    In my opinion your are in general right with your comments on the scooter clan.There will always be individuals with such severe diseases that they need these scooters and are better of with htese compared to wheelchairs.Don’t think that these issues play only a role in the USA.Here in the netherlands I see the same shit.Healthcare pays (stolen money,easy to spent). Busines selling these devises and offering maintainance services are booming.I know people from my neighbourhood who got these without needing them just because “now we can get them,who knows whether we will get them when we need them in the future”.They just walk around,scooter in the garage.I work in the fitness industry and I can attest ,there come clients on these scooters,get off them and jump on the treadmill or stationary bike.Slightly overweight,not obese but using their so called disease to get things done or collect so called medical help devices. People are just getting mentally weaker because there is always a nanny to tell them that is the way to go and they will help them to gather the devices(they will be paidwith the stolen money).Things go fast in the wrong direction ,the next generation of softies ir right around the corner.You see , here in the netherlands we are known for using the bike and while most of the country is as flat as a pancake the region where I live is famous for the hills ,so biking here(not as a sport but for transport) helps keeping you fit . But now since a few years there are bikes with a additional motor device one can use so the bike can speed up to about 25km/h without using your legs.The somewhat older people use them like crazy while they actually should use their muscle.These come also to the gym to bike or walk instead of strenght training and moving outside.But oh it is so easy and convenient.No one complained before.Consider also that these are mostly the ones that complain about the young generation not moving but sitting in front of the tube or pc.For most of the medical problems there is a simple solution and it starts with the mentallity of people and I don’t see that change happening soon. One can(and many do) use sickness to get things done . At its root the problem comes from the gangsters that stole our money to spent it at anything they wish and suddenly these things are needed and thus one has a right to it.That deserves the F word on a big scale.
    ad

    • Thanks ad

      You get it completely. And let’s not forget all the people here in the US who use some pretense to get a handicapped placard for their car so they can use the handicap parking spaces. There are tons of these people, probably more than who legitimately need them. In fact, just about any given day Im out and about, I see someone pull into a spot, just out of the car and march right in.

      • Ocamm’s Razor is.

      • A fried of mine has rheumatoid arthritis. She looks perfectly healthy but walks with a great deal of pain some days. When her pain is very bad, she uses her handicap parking priviledge. And more often than not, someone will look at her, see an apparently healthy young woman, and make a nasty comment or give her a dirty look. She has even had people shout at her and threaten her.

        My point is, you claim that your desire to shame and humiliate fat people on scooters doesn’t include those who are truly sick or are trying to improve their lives, but how do you know the difference? Just like my friend with RA, you can’t tell by appearances. But start up humiliation websites and these people will be tormented even more than they are now. Judging by appearances is lazy and dangerous.

      • “but how do you know the difference?”

        My senses and my brain. It’s not that hard. I can always tell.

        What I don’t understand is why people are so afraid of using their senses and their mind. Can you tell me that? They either don’t trust them, or they’re paralyzed by fear of using them and taking a stand or position.

      • Okay…so let’s assume you have the ability to assess people’s health issues or lack thereof just by seeing them roll by on their scooters. What about all the other people logging onto that shaming website you’re advocating. Do you think they’ll all have the same ability?

        And what of my friend with RA? Do you think you could tell by seeing her walk by that she is suffering pain with every step? I sincerely doubt it.

        I don’t see any good coming from encouraging people to shame strangers based on their appearance.

      • Janey, you simply fall for idea that if you’re not certain, then you really don’t know anything or much.

        It’s a trap. It’s designed to get you to overlook or overrule your own senses.

        Could I or anyone get it wrong, shame someone who doesn’t deserve it? Absolutely. I’m just willing to take my chances, and my righteously deserved spankimg when I do get it wrong.

        The obsessive desire to cause no offense ever means that nobody who ought to be offended or shamed ever does.

      • I never said I don’t want to cause any offense ever. But I’d much rather be on the side of not shaming/humiliating/hurting sick, disabled people. Ever.

        I have to say, again…no good will come from encouraging people to shame strangers based on appearance alone. I really think you need to rethink this. I think you’re much better than this.

      • “But I’d much rather be on the side of not shaming/humiliating/hurting sick, disabled people. Ever.”

        Why? What are you afraid of? I like to push boundaries and risk being wrong. Either they come after me which I will humbly accept and bend over for what I deserve, or I’ll take not of a demure, in which case I’ll back off and go look closer and apologize if necessary.

        It’s only human. What, you think this thing is all worked out for you risk free?

      • I’m not afraid of anything. I just choose not to be a bully. And, yes, I know that word is very loaded these days, but people riding scooters because of debilitating health problems have enough challenges without dealing with assholes who think it’s their right/duty to call out everyone they think deserve calling out.

        I choose to err on the side of kindness. Your choice is up to you.

      • Can’t edit, but “Janey” is “Laura”. I guess I used an old internet handle when I commented here previously.

      • “I’m not afraid of anything.”

        Now, see, that’s a bold faced lie right ought in front.

        You wonder why I don’t take you seriously?

      • “I just choose not to be a bully.”

        Stupid fucking lie #2. I have told you already that I have no interest in being a bully. A bully does not take much care and if wrong, doubles down.

        So, you’re a fucking liar twice, and I’m only to your second sentence.

      • Okay, now you’re just nit-picking. Let me re-phrase. I didn’t say I was afraid. You inferred it. I’m not afraid of being wrong. I’m simply averse to picking on sick people.

      • Okay, you don’t like the word bully. Here’s a definition of the word:

        “A bully is someone responsible for bullying, a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others.”

        If you don’t like the word bully, so be it. But the shaming and humiliating of disabled people by a healthy, able-bodied person sort of falls under that definition if you ask me.

      • BTW, Janey, did you read how in my post and the referenced link, and estimated 60% of scooters are going to people who don’t need them, at $4k to mediX and some sell them on eBay? And how about the article I linked in comments from the UK where the abuse is getting a lot of attention?

        Guess what? No good person ever did a post about the abomination of wheelchairs. But, I think I’m at the point of writing you off as hopelessly stupid, which I hate to do, because Im always about rescuing one mind at a time.

      • We weren’t talking about the people who don’t need them. We were talking about the inability to distinguish those who don’t need them from those who do. Did you forget that?

        Remember my friend with RA? Neither you nor anyone else could tell her needs by looking at her.

        For the last time (and it looks like this will be the last of our discussion on this subject, since you have decided you must write me off as stupid), shaming and humiliating others on the basis of appearance is lazy and dangerous.

        And, again, I must say – I think you’re better than this.

      • “Can’t edit, but “Janey” is “Laura”. I guess I used an old internet handle when I commented here previously.”

        Why would I give a shit? You could come in as Sponge Bob Square Pants and you’d have the exact same relies.

      • LOL. That was simply an explanation for anyone who might be reading and be confused as to who’s writing the replies.

      • “I’m not afraid of anything.”

        Ok, I “inferred” from a direct, unqualified quote.

        Youu have to do WAY Better than that around here, especially if you want to take me on. I’m actually very good at discerning meaning, but since you have zero interest in extending that to me, you get the exact same thing back.

        How does it feel?

      • You’re absolutely right. I said “I’m not afraid of anything.’ My mistake. I didn’t mean that I’m not afraid of anything in the world. It was more a figure of speech. My apologies for assuming your understanding. What I meant was that, in the context of our discussion, I wasn’t afraid. I’m not afraid of being wrong, so much as I find it distasteful and well, horrible, to be wrong, if it means hurting a truly sick person.

        I do not have “zero interest in extending” understanding to you. But you have to take a step back and try to see why others have a problem with your shaming plan.

      • “force or coercion”

        Look, I’m about one mind at a time, which is why I’m taking my time.

        I’ll bet you just glossed over those two essential words, didn’t you? But since its one mind at a time Im going to leave you with figuring out the very thing I’ve been on about for 20 years. With luck, if I can get you to get it, you’ll carry it forward another 20 years so I can relax.

      • “Coercion ( /koʊˈɜrʃən/) is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force.”

        An able bodied person humiliating a disabled person is intimidation. This isn’t about nit-picking the definitions of every word used. It’s about the spirit of what you’re advocating. Okay…forget the word bullying. Pretend I never said it. Pretend it doesn’t exist. What you’re advocating is still wrong. Strong people should never be about intimidating weak people.

      • “if you ask me.”

        By now, nobody should be asking you about anything. You can’t even properly discern a plain definition.

        You need to get your head screwed on straight and stop being so fucking stupid because everyone but people here will put up with it.

        You can be as stupid and as moron as you like, but you get no quarter here, except we’ll forgive you when you stop, applaud you with baby steps forward,

      • What part of that tirade of insults and name-calling is supposed to be a response to me? I said several times today “You’re better than that.” Stop trying to prove me wrong.

      • “We weren’t talking about the people who don’t need them. ”

        You keep lying.

      • “And, again, I must say – I think you’re better than this.”

        You’re so full of shit. What. Happened is I hit your level of outrage, as I always try to do with everyone.

        And I always take that however it goes, when it goes there.

        One mind at a time.

  31. Charles:

    “You are aware that the form of public humiliation/bullying will cause some people to commit suicide.”

    No, I’m aware of no such thing. I’m aware that about 12 in 100,000 per year in the US decide for many different reasons to take their own lives. I’m on the side of those who say it’s everyone’s unalienable right to make that choice and ought always be soberly accounted for as one of many paths one could choose if life in its current state becomes untenable. I would encourage everyone to account for all choices, though, such as radical changes to one’s environment. It’s likely that many choose suicide because they feel trapped, no way out. This is probably rarely the case. I’d acknowledge that it’s easier for teens to see things this way because they’re dependents. Back in the day, kids just ran away from home. Of course, that’s now a crisis too. What isn’t a crisis?

    Yes, I am aware of the latest “crise du jour” with the whole “bullying” thing (which actually used to mean pushing, shoving, fists—physical things, but now just words). In general: yawn. When I was “bullied” in school, it was bullies who did it, everyone whew who they were and generally people stayed away from them as much as possible.

  32. “Your point being”

    That I have eyes and a brain. That I don’t conjure up elaborate explanations to explain something that’s obvious.

    Go Google ‘handicap placard abuse’

    Hell, I personally know several in my own circle who have them and absolutely don’t need them.

  33. Isn’t riding down the street on the so-called fatmobile public shaming enough? I guess we all have different limits to the cruelty we wish to inflict on others

    • “Isn’t riding down the street on the so-called fatmobile public shaming enough?”

      Obviously not. The bugaboo in all of this is that those who feel genuine shame probably have the least reason too.

      It’s those who don’t—and there are plenty—that I’m after.

      It’s an old expression, but a good one: “have you no shame?” Classically, it’s directed at those who ought to feel shame but for some lack of basic character, don’t.

  34. Here, everyone, read all about it.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/02/trouble-with-mobility-scooters

    coupla excepts:

    But as they have become more popular, mobility scooters have become more controversial. Although the main growth in the market is the consequence of an ageing population, there is evidence that people with no disabilities are beginning to buy the scooters on the secondhand market (where they can cost as little as £100) because, with no tax, licence or insurance requirements, they provide a cheap alternative to cars for getting around town, particularly at a time of rising petrol prices. …

    The steady rise in sales of these vehicles is evident in their inescapable presence in shopping centres, rural town centres, and high streets all over the country. Weirdly, there are no industry statistics that give an accurate sense of how the market is growing, but the Department for Transport offers estimates, suggesting that there are around 250,000 to 300,000 on the road across the UK, four times the total five years ago of around 70,000. Mobility scooter shops have opened up in most medium-sized towns in the past decade (also offering specially designed armchairs and beds for frail and older people).

    None of the suppliers will reveal their sales figures, but around 60-70,000 scooters are thought to be sold here each year. No other country in Europe is selling as many (with the possible exception of Holland, where bicycle use is very high, and the mobility scooter is seen as a bike replacement for older cyclists).

    There has been a marked change in the way people use them. A decade ago these were products used only by very frail people; now manufacturers are designing new models with bench seats capable of carrying people up to 40st. “It’s a cultural issue. People are larger and, dare I say it, lazier,” an industry spokesman says (before deciding that he doesn’t dare say it, and asking for his name not to be put to the quote). “People are using them as a mode of transport rather than public transport or a car.”

    • I am horribly offended you find an article citing facts and use that in a discussion!!! How will that make people feel? You did not consider peoples feelings!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

      Love it. Keep it coming.

    • ad ligtvoet says:

      Well , obviously things are changing in the netherlands .We are catching up all the bad habits and the consequences.Anyone who dares to keep the eyes open can see it.Certainly in the regions with more older people( the same areas with lower educated workers ,industry,lower income). I live in the middle of it and am confronted with it every day.Regarding the shame aspect I can only say : watch humans in general ,there are enough guests for who knows many years of the Jerry Springer show,in every town around the globe.Most are confused about the term freedom and act like ……well you get the idea.
      I personal have no compassion with the “fakers”and ignore them ,never helping them with my services because they are the ones to are only looking for being pampered ,looking for their surrogate mother.The really handicapped are motivated to make the best of their situation and deserve all the respect.
      ad

  35. http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=41540

    “If I wanted to be politically correct, I’d call the fat asses cruising on their “free” rascal scooters, the weight challenged disabled on their powered mobility enhancement vehicles. You know a trend has become a massive scam, when South Park dedicates an entire show to the shame of obesity and the scooter brigade. The majority of the scooter squad jamming up the boardwalk was less than 50 years old. They weren’t disabled. They were just too obese and lazy to wobble down the boardwalk to the next junk food joint. They were certainly in the right place. The Wildwood boardwalk is home to pizza topped with cheese fries, chocolate covered bacon, fried Oreos, funnel cake topped with powdered sugar, and 64 ounce sugar laced lemonade. The place would make Nanny Bloomberg’s head explode.”

  36. I’m not feeling the sympathy, ever seen stories on soldiers who get arms and legs blown off and the hell they have to go through in rehabilitation?

    Here you are a young healthy person, you get your leg blown off through no fault of your own, and your consolation prize is you get a year of having to endure a hellish ordeal they call rehab, and you get to spend the rest of your life with one leg.

    Next to that, what excuse does the fat guy at the top of the page have? None.

    What is pathetic about the guy at the top of the page isn’t that he’s fat it’s that he’s WEAK. Physically weak, mentally weak, spiritually weak, the whole gamut of weakness. He has what is going to prove to be a terminal condition and he’s making it worse. Why should anyone feel any sympathy for that?

  37. So I am new to this blog and saw this post yesterday. I thought, I never see anyone in a scooter. It must be where I live. So I go into the grocery store today and come around the corner and there is an ornery, young fatty (450+) in one. I smile and move to the side and he moves to the same side. He grunts and goes “get out of my way” and so I gestured for him to go around me. He grumbled the entire way around.

    OMG… all 150 lbs of me standing should run for his fatness to have room for his scooter.

  38. Where are your pics, anonymous V?

    My weight is within 10% of normal.

    Where are your pictures, anonymous coward? Mouthy coward? A bore since the very first time you showed up here.

  39. I’ve never seen your pics.

  40. I could not give a shit about you or what you are trying to do. You’re on my stage here. You don’t have one and if you did I still wouldn’t give a shit about what you think, say, or do.

    Unless you weren’t in my comments I would not know you exist and I’d never miss a thing.

  41. Who cares? I don’t.

  42. Je m’en fous.

  43. Of course you’re using google translate. This is why you use vous instead of tu.

  44. No interest.

    • This is not a Mandarin blog, nort has it ever for a micro-second pretended to give a runny shit in the whole wide world about Mandarin.

      Go Mandarin, I guess?

  45. A little off topic but…Richard, do you have a recommended reading list of books that have influenced your thinking? I think that would be useful to those who visit your site. Thanks

    • Well, the first was Cordain’s book. But I hated the anti-fat message in that. In his defense, it was written early 2000s. Still valuable. I never read any of the predecessors like Neanderthin.

      Actually, I’m not a big super fan of books even though I have one myself. It’s why I designed it not for you, but the ones you love, wanted to make it as simple as possible.

      Sisson, Wolf and De Vany’s books are fine. There are a ton of cookbooks, now, and those are arguably the most valuable long term.

      • Sorry – I meant political, philosophical, etc. books (not nutritional)

      • Oh, hell, sorry.

        Well, I have to say that a lot of Rand as comtemporary and classics like essays by Bastait are good starters. Read The Foutainhead and Atlas Shrugged, but don’t fuckimg dwell on them. Don’t know where you are coming from but for me in 1991, they shattered my world. But, I didn’t do anything but change my life, become an entrepreneur and eventually make millions per year.

        I have never read any of them more than once. The key is to get. Few things for yourself, move on, prove those things to yourself and do something. Later, you can start a blog and make fun of ignoramuses, of which there are plenty. Endless supply.

        You don’t have to, but it is fun.

      • I’m not answering for Richard but I hope he won’t disagree with the following:

        http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html (the broken window fallacy)
        http://lysanderspooner.org/node/44 (Lysander Spooner, No Treason)

        For meatier stuff, anything by the Austrian economists (Mises, Hayek, Rothbard).
        My favorites:
        http://mises.org/money.asp – What Has Government Done to Our Money? – as relevant today as ever.
        http://www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson/ – Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt
        http://mises.org/document/860/Economics-and-Ethics-of-Private-Property-Studies-in-Political-Economy-and-Philosophy-The (Hans-Hermann Hoppe)

        http://mises.org/journals/jls/3_1/3_1_2.pdf – An American Experiment in Anarcho-Capitalism: The Not So Wild, Wild West. You don’t need government to protect yourself and issues are settled way faster when the courts are actually private and compete with each other.

        Thomas J. DiLorenzo is good on American history. (if you think Lincoln was the greatest American president and no the beginning of the end of the US republic, he’ll make you change your mind).

        Not a Libertarian politically, but Thomas Sowell is very good at explaining how economics works.

  46. I’ve blogged many times and commented about what precipited a 15 pound weight gain.

    Still trying to get a handle on it. Another test after a month or so, just today. But you don’t give a shit, so neither do I.

  47. For me the only issue worth arguing about here is my (alleged) responsibility as a taxpayer (and aspiring member of a civil society). Should I be required by law to buy you a scooter (that you can then sell for profit on Ebay)? No. If you need a scooter (for reals), then there are legitimate ways of getting one without forcing me to pay, and I personally will not join Richard in shaming you for availing yourself of such a way (though I won’t be working to join you anytime, certainly not anytime soon).

    My in-laws are in the morbidly obese category (I am pretty sure). They walk as much as they can. But they cannot really do much, for reasons that Woo has explained pretty well. I wish I could make them better. Maybe if I were meaner (like Richard), I could. As is, however, that is just not my persona. If you want to kill yourself, I am not going to make fun of you (in more than a light-hearted vein), until you start trying to kill me. That is when I get mad (and feel justified saying aggressive things). My in-laws let me be, so I let them be. I try to point them toward better ways of being that might be accessible to them, but I cannot make them take advantage of those (any more than they can make me down liters of Diet Coke and sit around in easy chairs all the time).

    I am frustrated by my in-laws sometimes. I sure hope my kids don’t turn out like them. But I don’t think I can shame them (or my kids) into doing better. It just ain’t going to happen. Being the person I am is more effective (for me and for them, I think) than getting in their faces all the time would be.

    • Richard, just so you know, I don’t mean anything (ha!) bad when I refer to you as “mean” above. I think your meanness is actually kindness, when viewed in the context of who you are and what you are doing. We all wear different badges as we move through the world. I like yours, even if it isn’t always mine. The world becomes better as people find and exemplify different varieties of health (including some that will appear “mean”).

      A sidenote on my in-laws (whom I keep bringing up). To their credit, they don’t use mobiles regularly. They really do have a hard time walking, but they do try to do it. I just wish I could get them to change what they eat as well. Then they might see better results (instead of just losing and regaining the same few pounds over and over while walking themselves into the ground, as you can do really quickly when you weigh more than 300 pounds).

      • No offense taken, Joseph.

        I prefer it when people are direct with me and I’m direct with others. If often say when I get back “you’re so mean,” that at least they got my worst right off the bat.

  48. Here is one thing that keeps me from getting too mad at my in-laws. At the end of the day, we are all dead, and all of us carry epigenetic aftershocks from past generations inside (which we can respond to well or not, with more or less effect in our quality of life). If someone else wants to crash their human machine and burn it into the ground, then who am I to tell them that they can only crash my way? Personally, I would rather crawl (or at least get a manual wheelchair) than ride a mechanical scooter, but you and I are not the same person. Your happiness is not mine. Until you force me to buy you a scooter against my will (or bail out your bad business against my will), I have no quarrel with you. You die your way, and I will die mine.

  49. Being ashamed is better than being eaten by lions.

    We’ve gotten too far from evolution and too comfortable for our own good. Now, the only cost of such self-destructive behavior is embarrassment and we’re trying to take that away. Not too long ago, we couldn’t afford to let someone become so completely useless they could make such a choice. If, due to actual disease or disability, they had to live on the generosity of others, they would feel ashamed. But, our human mercy would cover for them and see that they were OK.

    Now, we want to claim no one should feel embarrassed for living on other’s charity. “It’s not their fault.” “They have health issues.” “Their parents did it.” “It’s society’s fault.” So, rather than make them actually earn their charity, we have the government tax the productive (or borrow/print the money) and tell them that it’s OK.

    It’s not OK! They’re not pulling their weight. They’re not trying to pull their weight. If they were our parents and we had to actually take care of them, we would make sure they were comfortable and buy them a normal wheelchair. And, we’d push them around. And, they’d feel embarrassed, but we love them and would do it anyway. Fortunately, since they would feel embarrassed, they wouldn’t get in that wheelchair until they really had to. It’s the shame of having to deal with real people that keeps everyone from abusing the system.

    Way back when, if they couldn’t keep up, the lions would get them. Our human mercy and love drives us to make sure the lions don’t eat our parents and sick children. Unfortunately, it’s nonsense like socialism (Welfare/Medicare/Medicaid/whatever) that strips away the need to face the people keeping you away from the lions. So, you don’t mind milking them for all they’re worth and not pulling your weight.

    Life isn’t supposed to be that easy. It takes work and stress to survive and grow. If you refuse to make the attempt, you should be eaten. If you make the attempt, the people who love you will protect you from the lions. So, yes, the people with legitimate medical needs will get help from their friends and relatives. But, they’ll still be embarrassed. That’s the price you pay for not pulling your weight. It’s less painful than being eaten and it keeps the tribe alive.

    • People like TimA are why I blog.

    • As far as I can see, the only “lions” around today are people like you, who think that those stricken by disease are “not pulling their weight”. What a sad, cold, world you live in. Someday you may be stricken with an illness that you had NO hand in bringing about. If and when that day comes, I, for one, will not look at you and tell you you’re not pulling your own weight. I will treat you as a fellow human being with dignity and take on your burden as my own. Because that’s what human beings do.

      • I highly doubt you will take on my burden as your own, unless you are paid handsomely by my health insurance company. You don’t know me and are aren’t likely to ever meet me unless you happen to work in the hospital I go to.

        OTOH, I expect my family will take on my burden as their own. Partially because they love me and partially because, up to this point, I have been pulling my weight. And, as part of pulling my weight, I’ve taken care of them and paid for insurance and paid my taxes. But, even if we’re broke at the time, they’ll take the load.

        And, if that occurs, I’ll be quite embarrassed that I have to rely on someone else. And I should be embarrassed. I’ll accept the help (hopefully with appreciation and humility), but I will do what I can to be as little trouble as possible. I am my own responsibiity. When others have to do for me, I’m embarrassed. I think that’s healthy, both for me and society.

        Of course, when most people say they will help, what they really mean is that they will clamour for the government or the evil insurance companies or someone to pay to fix me up. And, they’ll complain if I ever have to feel embarrassed, because I’m just getting what’s my due.

        If you are really helping people in these situations with your own time and resources, I commend you. It’s that type of service that makes us human. But, removing the stigma of not pulling your weight doesn’t make the world better.

      • Where have you been, TimA.

        Here, use this in the future:

        “Is your desire to help others so great as to actually help them, or only so great as to force others to help them?” – USENET, 1995, anonymous

      • Yes, I would be embarrassed. It’s in my nature. But I shouldn’t be. And neither should you be. Disability is part of the human condition, whether brought about by old age or the roll of the genetic dice.

        What about infants and children who are sick and disabled? They haven’t paid taxes or insurance. But we all have the burden of their care, simply by virtue of being human.

        And yes, I would take on your burden. I trust you would do the same for me.

      • More accurate than “I would take your burden” is “somebody might take your burden.” But not all burdens are bearable. I would do all I can for my in-laws, but I cannot do more than that. Human life has limited value, and the less quality we give ours, the less value it ends up having (with the lowest quality of life existing merely because nothing exterior has arrived to squash it yet).

        It is better not to have burdens. Make the burdens you have minimal. Life is hard enough when you don’t go out of your way to become or stay obese (as my in-laws do). There is no law that anyone can pass that will make this reality different for every individual. So I guess I agree with Richard and TimA where the diagnosis of social ills are concerned here. They say baldly what other people say nicely (when your plan doesn’t cover that eventuality and suing the company means that you both waste money on lawyers without changing the intractability of the real problem, which may be intractable).

        When (if) I get to be old or impossibly sick or weak, I do not expect to survive. Of course I am willing to be surprised when I pull through against hope, but I don’t expect it. I may even be ashamed of myself. If it keeps me alive, I will be grateful. If not, I will die and forget about it. I do what I can to avoid being an unnecessary burden on anyone (realistically, on the people who care about me), but I recognize that I have limited worth, and that I have a large hand in determining what that worth is (by the way I live every moment).

        I think the hardest thing for my in-laws is the feeling of weakness and helplessness that has become endemic in their minds. Whenever I talk about changing diet (by which I mean changing their lifestyle), they get this vacant look and start recounting all the failed attempts at meaningful change that litter their history. My history is one of meaningful, positive change. Theirs is not so (yet). When I feel weak, I push through it because I have learned to associate temporary debilitation with strength, but they cower away and give up (since their experience has taught them to associate it with illness and increased weakness). It is like we are living in parallel, inverted universes. I sincerely appreciate any effort to bridge the gap, even when the tool used is naked shame. Personally, I know they have shame (the blame of those around them) and guilt (their own reflection on how worthless they are). So far, it has not saved them. I confess, I doubt its power to do so. But I don’t resent people who think it might and use it anyway. I know some people for whom such tactics have worked.

      • No, Laura, you should be embarrassed. Shame is an emotion. Emotions are merely our perception of instincts. You have an instinct for self-preservation. If you aren’t preserving yourself, i.e. you need others to preserve you, you will feel uncomfortable. That discomfort is shame and it’s healthy. Just like pain is healthy. It protects you. People who don’t feel pain don’t learn to avoid harmful situations and eventually get killed. People who don’t feel shame don’t preserve themselves and eventually die. A society that discourages shame discourages self-preservation and eventually collapses.

        As it says at the top of the page, Free the Animal. Embrace your shame. Or, more importantly, avoid your shame and preserve yourself. Respond to the instinct to preserve yourself.

        People who sponge off others because they are too lazy to preserve themselves weaken the rest of us. That fact that some innocents suffer embarrassment is a sad result of living in a pack that contains some imperfect specimens. Other innocents suffer constant physical pain because they are unfortunate in other ways. But, normal people respond to the pain by avoiding the problem. Healthy people should respond to shame by discontinuing the action causing the embarrassment, not by making the world stop talking about how lazy they are.

      • You are correct about sick infants and children. Because of our humanity we will tend to them. If they recover from their illness, they’ll move on to being normal. If they don’t, and they aren’t unreasonably coddled, they will overcome their limitation and become self-sufficient in other ways. You can find stories all over of people with disabilities who learned to live with them and excel. The shame isn’t for being disabled, it’s for expecting others to continually pull your weight.

      • “Pain is healthy.” This is an important insight that gets ignored a lot. I think this goes back to the problem my in-laws have. They hurt a lot, and for them, correcting the hurt in the past has meant retreating into inaction and sugar comas. I hurt too, but for me the hurt means I rest up, eat some really good food, and hit the gym even harder next time I go (which won’t be too soon). I wish I could get into their heads and show them that they don’t have to respond to pain by becoming less and less alive. There are better ways.

      • “Disability is part of the human condition”

        Hey, dumb fuck liar. I am not talking about disability and never was. You would know that if you weren’t such a wasted fuck of a dumb.

        Get smart. You’ll like it. Trust me. Pretending to be dumb has serious downsides, though it serves well in everyday conversation with the herd.

      • “….those stricken by disease are “not pulling their weight”. What a sad, cold, world you live in.”

        The lies pile up. The post is not about legitimate debilitation. It’s about people who either see a scooter and go “cool,” I have no shame, or those who ignore all the flairs going off in front of their face for years or decades.

        You have such a pathetic argument. It reminds me of people who tell me what a sad life I must lead because I don’t believe in a fairy god in the skies and fallaciously fantasize about other than decay and worms happening when I die (I don’t: I’ll be ashes, as every rational person should see to).

      • Richard, you just said -

        ” The post is not about legitimate debilitation.”

        However, TimA said -

        “the people with legitimate medical needs will get help from their friends and relatives. But, they’ll still be embarrassed. That’s the price you pay for not pulling your weight.”

        I was responding to TimA’s post. And yes, he DID say that people with legitimate medical needs are not pulling their weight. No lies from me.

      • Laura, I’ve lost track of the maneuvering and lying you are trying to get away with. It’s fine, you’ll either think better or you won’t. But you have lied. I. Don’t need for you to admit it, I just would like you to do better and I’m a sucker for redemption.

      • “Someday you may be stricken with an illness that you had NO hand in bringing about.”

        May you be well, whether part of bad behavior or otherwise.

      • “I will treat you as a fellow human being with dignity and take on your burden as my own. ”

        You are so full of shit, such a liar of convenience.

        So, like, if I said I had cancer an had three months, you’d be on a plane?

        You are such a lying piece of crap. Just fucking deal with reality and stop with the bromides and slogans.

      • Richard, why do you start to lash out and call people liars, full of shit, etc., as soon as they have a legitimate argument with you? How about you calm down and face the fact that you’re not always right?

        Don’t take it personally. In this instance, you are wrong. Shaming and humiliating people you know nothing about beyond appearance is wrong.

      • Rather than say it is wrong, you might say that it has limited utility. In the case of my in-laws, all they hear is the part they agree with (“our lives really suck”) and they miss the message of redemption (“let’s ditch the Coke and move our butts!”). They are already ashamed and guilty. The problem is that feeling this way does not lead them to stop devolving into ever weaker and fatter people.

      • “Shaming and humiliating people you know nothing about beyond appearance is wrong.”

        That’s another lie.

        But even if so, I don’t have much of a problem with it. Shame and criticize, take your lumps if wrong. Simple. Isn’t it hilarious how so many pop in to wave hands against ever shaming or criticizing anyone not proved by and NIH study to be worthy?

        You think I don’t know what you’re about, right?

        Shame and citicize everyone. Let Cod sort it out.

      • And I should have added…
        You’re right. I probably would not be on a plane if you had cancer, unless I knew that you had no one in your life to help you. I can not personally go and help every person in the world who is sick. I apologize for that. However, I would, without a moment’s hesitation, be there to help those in my purview who need me. No bromides, no slogans. I had cancer last year. I have friends who were there with no questions asked, when I needed them. Not one of them told me it was my fault, or made me feel embarrassed. Not one of them made me feel like I was not pulling my own weight.

        That’s about as real as you can get.

      • Nope, I don’t think everyone gets what they deserve. I think biology has no conscience. Many innocent people live in terrible pain that can’t be cured. Many evil people have perfect health. “Deserve” has nothing to do with it. There is no karma. There is only biology and plenty of human specimens turn out with terrible imperfections. Sucks to be them.

        I also think it’s entirely natural and healthy for someone to be embarrassed when they can’t pull their own weight. When those people are completely out of control of their health, it’s sad that they do so. For the same reason, it ‘s terribly sad that some people experience physical pain when there’s nothing they can do about it.

        But, that doesn’t mean that pain and embarrassment aren’t evolved responses to protect the individual and the tribe. The fact that it doesn’t create perfectly moral results where only the guilty are troubled and the innocent live in peace is irrelevant.

      • Well, you almost made it to Godwin. Sorry, comparing fat people to Jews doesn’t cut it. Being Jewish is either an ethnic reality or a religious choice. Being black is a reality of biology. These groups have deep histories of being abused for the mere fact of their birth.

        Being fat may have ceased being a choice at some point in time and for a few people may never have been a choice. But, for most people in those scooters, choices were made by them or their parents that led to their condition.

        Clearly, our current society, economy, political system, government subsidized grains, food pyramid, big pharma, yada, yada has a lot to do with this. But, 100 years ago there weren’t that many obese people. So, someone is making some bad choices.

        Personally, I don’t go around harassing fat people in scooters. I feel no need to insult any stranger, no matter what assumptions I might make about them. Not only might I be wrong in the specific instance, but it’s not really my place to straighten anyone out. But, that doesn’t mean the current acceptance of these scooters is a healthy situation for our society. And, forcing me to pay for someone to ride one just because they don’t want to address their obvious problems isn’t a solution I like.

        If embarrassment will get someone off the scooter, that’s how it works. If they have no choice, they’re going to be embarrassed. That’s also how it works.

      • So, you made the choice to stop being fat, but those others can’t. They must be too stupid or they have no choices or something. Yeah, that’s it.

        A hundred years ago, the kind of morbid obesity we see now was incredibly rare. Now it’s common. I get that this isn’t just because people ate a few too many cookies after dinner. But, I don’t buy the notion that the human animal has so completely changed that this is just the new normal and we should accept it. Harrassing fat people isn’t going to fix the problem, but neither is pretending they are just folks down on their luck.

        I also don’t buy the notion that the majority of people in scooters are so medically broken that they have no choice. And, I certainly don’t buy the notion that their current condition was forordained from birth, so they have no responsibility for it and shouldn’t be embarrassed by it. Just because I can’t specifically identify which ones have a congenital condition and which have been too lazy for too long to walk across the parking lot or put down the soda doesn’t mean I have to deny logic and pretend they are all just poor souls who have been unreasonably put in this terrible condition against their will.

        The problem is obviously much bigger than moving more and eating less. But, denying reality just to make the broken feel better about themselves moves us away for the solution, not towards it.

      • I’m very much in favor of people paying for alchohol detox/rehabilitation programs. I wish them the best of luck in those.

        Or were you asking whether I think I should pay for those programs, via forced payment to the government or a required minimum insurance policy? Then, no. Fixing the broken in society isn’t really my job. I’ve got my own responsibilities in life and don’t see the need to pay for the troubles of strangers just because some other stranger feels sorry for them.

  50. Nope again. Willpower cannot stop illness. Willpower can sometimes make someone change their habits to improve their health. If they are already medically broken to the point they can’t be fixed, then they have to figure out how to live with that. I actually have some sympathy for them and hope they can find ways to be as happy and functional as possible.

    OTOH, I don’t believe everyone riding a scooter started out with some incurable metabolic problem that led inexorably to morbid obesity. There were likely turning points in their life where they had choices that could have prevented them from getting there.

    I don’t think shame is the principal solution to the obesity problem. I don’t even think it’s anywhere near the top of the list. However, making complete dysfunction acceptable in society doesn’t help solve the problem. It encourages people to avoid it. Trying to remove the stigma of being fat is like trying to drug away all pain. It may make some people feel better, but it will make the underlying problems worse.

    Being obese should be embarrassing. We clearly have problems defining healthy weight in our society and supermodel-size shouldn’t be the standard. Maybe reubenesque should be the standard. But, obesity that prevents you ambulating your way through a grocery store shouldn’t just be an “alternative lifestyle”.

  51. PaleoNewbie says:

    Richard, Its been awhile since I posted here, but have been lurking ever since, still a Newbie though, on the road to improving my own shitty metabolic state.

    Dropped by to say that some of the haters on this post will change their tune when universal healthcare drops. The 53% of us that pay taxes will be forced to cover the the morbidly obese that you mention as well as all of the complications that come with obesity, mostly which are chronic, expensive problems: Diabetes, Heart disease, Hypertension, Stroke, Renal failure, amputations, joint replacements, retinopathy, and on and on. (You will have to pay for those chain smokers and alcoholics too!) I don’t mind paying may 35% tax bracket to help the poor and sick, but I get a little upset when I subsidize my neighbor who constantly shovels 4000 Calories into his mouth without a care in the world. But, that is a story for another day.

    • There will be blood in the water when that happens, and the unhealthy will lose (as they always do). I would honestly rather be insulted and fight back than lulled into a false sense of security before the state owns my ass (bought and paid for by the taxpayer). For me, the practical take-away from all of this is that you must look to yourself (and your own) as much as possible. Nobody else is guaranteed to do it. (They might, or they might not. Even if they do, their cure might be worse than your disease. This is why it sucks to be sick.)

      http://covertrationingblog.com/

  52. That movie Wall-E wasn’t too far off, was it?

    The main thing that upsets me is the fact that we as taxpayers subsidize these atrocities (if someone spends their own money on a scooter, I don’t really care).

    As for the shame, aren’t most fat people already ashamed? Heck, if I was ashamed of my extra 30 pounds… It’s easy to talk about sloth and gluttony but we know it’s more complicated than that. A lot of people want to change this situation but they don’t know that low-fat and chronic cardio is only going to make things worse. Remember, we live in the world where even diabetics are told by their doctors it’s ok to eat refined grains as long as you pump that insulin.

    Yes, at the end of the day your health is your personal responsibility but it’s hard to hear the right message in the sea of disinformation.

  53. AlexaProwler says:

    How many smart healthy people do you see hanging out with dumb unhealthy people? Not many, right? In the long run the elite will breed with each other to form a master race. Look around you. This master race is already forming.

    Farmers do this with cattle. The weak unproductive and culled and only the best are allowed to breed. Their herd gets better and better every season. We haven’t got around to culling the weak but a major catastrophe will take care of that – asteroid strikes the earth or something like that. How many scooter people will survive such an event? How many marksdailyapple.com readers will survive such an event? Extreme, perhaps harsh, but it’s fucking true.

    • AlexaProwler says:

      Forgot to mention, inter-racial breeding is great for creating superior offspring. I am yet to marry but my intention is have at least 3 wives with as diverse racial backgrounds as possible. All my offspring will benefit from “hybrid vigor” – google it.

      • AlexaProwler says:

        Wooo is hot.

      • By God you’re right. Never knew she had photos up on her scribble pad. Damn hot. Cool mind too, even though I disagree a lot, I agree a lot. That’s probably a good thing.

      • I didn’t even know Wooo was a woman. On a cuteness scale of 1 to 10 she scores an 11.

      • All my life I’ve been a total sucker for that olive to dark skin complexion.

      • “I would prefer to be conceptualized as a crazy internet lunatic ranting into the darkness, but thanks!”

        Ha!

        You see, us crazy internet paleo lunatics just have a thing for hot chicks. We celebrate them. We understand that at the very base, that’s why we exists (plus, they’re hot).

        Plus, we like hot chicks.

        I dunno. After all the BS is said and done, guy wants hot chick, hot chick wants a guy who doesn’t pretend to be a chick.

        Am I wrong.

        ….Can’t wait to see a pic of Wooo with a 6′+ alpha male with mind (assuming, but I think she’s hetero). Wooo, go get on some pilot boards. Smart, alpha, daring.

        “how do you know there’s a pilot in the room?” He’ll tell you.

        My best to you, hotess.

      • ….More.

        Wooo. You absolutely need, if you want a guy, a total alpha. But, a totally smart apha because only a totally smart alpha will appreciate your mind, not be intimidated—EVEN IF HIS IS INFERIOR.

        You can absolutely not go for anything less.

        I’m watching.

      • “But those pics it was july and I was rockin a tan…I tan super easily because of my heritage”

        You’re so full of shit, Wooo.

        You’re hot. You love it. You prefer it.

        You’re hot. Fuck all the rest who might resent it; get over it because life is short. And BTW, seems to me you quite recovered and rescued yourself. You would not get these comments from guys you’ll never have the pleasure of fucking had you not done that for yourself.

        Now go out there and tame an Alpha, because you can. They want to be tamed, BTW.

    • And when she runs through that 3 lb block of cheese, there’s always the family size box of Cheez-Its hanging in ready supply from the wheelchair.

      Mind you, this is not her choice. Just a victim.

      • Holy crap! She’s eating lowcarb! There’s no pleasing you people. Richard – cheese and Cheez-Its are very different.

        BTW – You get that this is a random photograph on the internet, right? And that just looking at this pic tells you NOTHING else about this person. Oh, but I forgot…Richard can tell people’s medical history just by looking at them.

        Oy

      • AlexaProwler says:

        So we know your reaction to the photo. What would your reaction be if you saw her in real life?

        If I had time to kill, I’d say hello. I often speak to homeless, down syndrome, mentally disabled or socially dejected/outcast people whenever I come by them. The small five minutes I give them can keep them happy for days. I’ll also admit that if I was busy I would just walk on by and leave her be.

        Why? I did volunteer work at a day care centre for mentally disabled teenagers while I was in middle school. It was only a couple of weeks. I read from car magazines to the boys and helped them water plants – all in wheel chairs, most couldn’t talk properly (drooling and grunting mostly) but they loved hearing me tell them about which cars I’d seen and when. The staff there told me it would change the way I look at my life for ever. It did.

      • “So we know your reaction to the photo. What would your reaction be if you saw her in real life?”

        Leave her alone. The unfortunate thing about the photo I used which came from the post I linked was my main thrust was over those who clearly don’t need to be in scooters. This photo is disgusting but it’s not like a 30-something tooling around because he or she is too lazy.

  54. Richard, You wrote:
    “Unlike others, I think shame, even public shame, is a far more effective motivator of good social behavior than laws, regulations, public incentives. This is an issue that won’t go away as healthcare becomes increasingly socialized and people come to realize they’re paying for another’s ability to indulge in obvious pathological behavior.”

    Social shame doesn’t seem to help that much. Ask a teenage girl how much she wants to lose weight, how hard she has tried and how she has failed. People talk about living in an age where every kid gets a trophy resulting in a self entitled transitioning into adulthood. Sorry but not the case. When kids get in the high school they learn thier place. High School is a darwinian test tube. It’s funny when someone gets mocked as long as it’s not you. If a teenage girl is fat it’s her own mother fucking fault and I have every right to call that cunt a fat bitch because she needs to lose some fucking weight. I have a diet she can go on: Stop fucking eating (Sorry readers, Richard Nickoley just punched me in the face and took over typing for a second there). Believe me teenage girls want to lose weight and plenty of her peers lay social pressure on her to do so and do it fast. I’m not saying an individual doesn’t have the will power over temptations but I believe I’m using a good metaphore for the epidemic here. It’s hard to lose weight and you being the fat fuck 80 LB’s overweight piece of shit you were should keep that in mind. On top of that you had a blog to maintain based on your wieghtloss. You paleo bloggers are like baseball players. YOu got to keep in shape for your business.

    • Of course, social shame would be a lot more effective if there weren’t legions of authoritarian fear mongers out there trying to derail it in promotion of their diktats.

      Other than that, I’m interested pretty much only in those who can be shamed. Everyone else can fuck off and die. Sooner the better.

  55. By the way, the main reason for the swearing is because I could and I’m a big fan of your blog Richard. Keep it up.

  56. featherbrighteyes says:

    you really dont know what happened? The Internet happened. In the 90s everyone had a computer and video games and that is when america sat down and they arent getting up. And its worse now. You dont have to go anywhere, you can do it all on the internt. And with that came neck surgeries, carpal tunnel surgeries etc and so on and thats when the Mobile chairs became more famous than ever.