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Memo to Carb-Insane-Asylum: Here’s My AHS Presentation in Video (Choke on it)

In August of 2011, the inaugural Symposium of the Ancestral Health Society kicked off on the beautiful campus of UCLA. Offhand, there were about 40 presenters from across the globe, many sporting decades of achievement in fields surrounding health and well-being—all from a human evolutionary standpoint. And then there was me.

Why was I presenting amongst this Who's Who? Uh, probably because I put forth a lot of effort on this blog to promote it from day one, and had done a lot to promote Paleo/Ancestral in general. Big surprise, eh? Go figure. I continued to promote the Society and Symposium, as well as the underlying mindset and lifestyle in general, and by great fortune, was welcomed back to present a 2nd time. AHS12 took place on the prestigious campus at Cambridge: Harvard University, School of Law.

None of this would have happened had I, instead, sought to tear down anything and everything virtually everyone else but me was doing...attempting to elevate myself...not through the promotion of valiant efforts by others—errors here & there & all—but by seeking an easy, lazy route to self-importance by tearing down those values created by others.

One person’s effort to get Nikoley out of AHS

From: Evelyn aka CarbSane
Date: Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Subject: Richard Nikoley and AHS12
To: Aaron Blaisdell , Brent Pottenger

Hello Sirs!

I’m not sure whether Brent is familiar with me, but I do believe Aaron and I have had (cordial to my recollection) exchanges on the PaleoHacks website.  My name is Evelyn  Kocur and I blog at My Carb Sane-Asylum.

While the majority of the content on my blog is analysis of peer review nutrition literature, I’m probably most notorious for my outspoken criticisms of various low carb advocates, especially Gary Taubes.  I think if either of you take an unbiased look at my blogging (rather than relying on characterizations of it), it should become clear that my criticisms are backed by the science as we know it and not personal character assassinations.  Still, I cannot hold my tongue that I think it is an abomination that Jimmy Moore is going to be moderating the Safe Starch debate or that Jack Kruse is (I can only hope was?!) to be on that panel.  If the purpose is a serious consideration of the benefits/drawbacks of starch content of the diet, it would behoove the Foundation to cast panels with some expertise in the matter.  Is there a biochemist in the bunch?  Any scientist with training in the field?  It’s not like they don’t exist in the community (Wolf, Lalonde, me!). [emphasis added to exclamation]

Which brings me to the subject at hand. I have a ticket to AHS12 and thanks to generous donations by my readers, I’m able to attend.  My total cost to attend will be around $1000, and this would be far more if I weren’t road-trip “local” and had to fly. I’ve made this commitment to attend your conference and many of my readers have donated to this specific cause. [...]

As if Kruse’s actions were not bad enough, they were certainly compounded by one Richard Nikoley. [...]

I suppose there’s some logic by which a Loren Cordain type (note, not Loren, but someone of his stature in the community) might be afforded some leeway in their personal behavior were they to be this sort of certifiable misogynistic jerk. But what does Richard Nikoley bring to the table? He IS a blogger. Therefore this sort of behavior on his blog goes directly to whatever “value” there is to having him speak at AHS12.

As a paying attendee and the target of his vile actions, I request you disinvite this man from speaking.  I’ve said on my blog, and feel very strongly, AHS12 and the community as a whole would be better served watching 20 minutes of webcam footage from the Bronx Zoo.

I decided not to bother to submit my own proposed talk for AHS12 on early reports that many “in” folks were turned away. [...]

...But if you value the integrity of your organization, please consider weeding out the Richard Nikoley’s in your midst.  He has no business presenting at such a conference.

Word I got is that she got no response from AHS organizers to this. What is known is that I attended, delivered my presentation for the 2nd consecutive year to a good audience (even though in the other speaking venue, I was up against the multiple sclerosis self-"cured" physician and TED Talk extraordinaire, Terry Wahls), and that even after all that, CarbInsaneAsylum did not attend, citing "scheduling conflicts."

I win.

I won't bore you with the number of her posts in the aftermath that wined on and on about it all, a clear record in pure volume for anyone who's never actually attended an event.

30960400
 

Alright...</gloating>.

So here's the presentation. Runs about 17 minutes. Yea, I've been doing the Anarchy Begins at Home series, up to Part 7 just yesterday; but here's a completely encapsulated version. Check it out. I usually hate the videos of my presentations, but I'm satisfied here—perhaps 20 minutes is perfect for me. I always begin my preparation the early morning of actually giving it, do a dry run immediately prior, then give it. I want it honest, fresh, genuine...not too contrived or too clever.

Richard Nikoley—Paleo Epistemology and Sociology from Ancestral Health Society on Vimeo.

AHS has just put out the call for presentation submissions for AHS13 in Atlanta next August. Deadline is January 15th, and while I have mostly leaned toward not doing it again, I'm leaving it open for consideration. I'll chew on what value I might be able to bring and then decide definitively.

I wholeheartedly support the endeavor regardless. I support the investment every single presenter ever made to be there—in spite of nit-picks or serious disagreements I might have. I trust your brains to sort it out. I am not your authority. I'm your biggest cheerleader—and I always, always understand and know my place.

Be sure to browse the other presentations already up, of both 2011 and 2012, more coming every few days. Don't take me, yourself, or anyone else too seriously. Take seriously the people who put this together. So, my thanks for Brent Pottenger and Aaron Blaisdell for the vision and execution. Thanks also to Calos Toro—who seems to be the on-ground executive BMOC, so far as I can tell; and his team. Thanks also to the Harvard video team who labored to record all of this, edit it and publish it. They have integrated the PP slides perfectly with the video of the presentation. Job well done.

...Now, see how easy that was, Insane? You ought to try it sometime and see if things roll your way more often.

Comments

  1. Aaron (halotek) says:

    My question: how can people spontaneously form anarchist groups — considering that anarchists by definition probably would not try to sway large groups.

    Love the concepts, just seem like there is just too many people around. Maybe I should move somewhere where that is not the case!

    • Aaron:

      We’re all on our own. Personal decentralization within a centralized system is one (imperfect) option. Moving to a place where food is easy (tropics) is another (imperfect, perhaps less so) option.

      I never engage in utopia proclamations. All a proper anarchist can really do it live by example.

      • Aaron (halotek) says:

        I fully understand what you have been trying to say in regards to perceived protection (from government) from what is reality. I also can imagine potential issues between anarchist groups –though I think you’d know a bit more where you stood vs a government.

        Would it be possible for you to say your lifestyle system would lead to the highest level of innovation on a global scale. Putting the dangers aside of developing and using new technologies. “I” would love to live in a system that tries to maximize truth and understanding of the universe. Is it wrong that I would love to have biotechnology that would extend my life.

        Not sure if you have seen the movie Prometheus — here is a viral TED talk that proceeded it. Nothing was going to stop Peter Weyland from his vision. I get inspired every time I hear it, and it didn’t even make it into the MOVIE!

        http://blog.ted.com/ted2023/

      • Hey Aaron:

        Here’s the problem. Back in the day, the Egyptian Pyramids were the greatest technological, engineering, architectural….so ons…achievement the world had every known and it took thousands of years to even figure out how they accomplished some of the things they did.

        …with thousands of slaves.

        So here’s my point. I think we have to evolve to the point where we just go with morality, toss the dice and trust that long term, we’ll be better off living each at his own expense, or socially within small groups where everyone is accountable on the general balance sheet, profit & loss.

      • “Hey Aaron:

        Here’s the problem. Back in the day, the Egyptian Pyramids were the greatest technological, engineering, architectural….so ons…achievement the world had every known and it took thousands of years to even figure out how they accomplished some of the things they did.

        …with thousands of slaves.”

        Slaves – my ass… we haven’t figured out shit about the pyramids

        If you were an alien civilization wanting to establish a beacon on the earth for the time when the locals were ready to contact you, building the pyramids might be a logical way to do it.

        The Great Pyramid squares the circle. The perimeter is pi times the octahedral height. The octahedral height is the vertical distance from the capstone to the capstone of another mirror pyramid underneath to make an octahedron. This octahedral shape, with pi built in by the precise angle of the pyramid slope, is the Platonic perfect solid as described at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octahedron with angle varied to square the circle. This is high mathematics. I do not know if anyone has investigated at the location of the subterranean capstone of the Great Pyramid.

        The pyramid has tubes pointing at stars. Why would the ancient Egyptian people want to have gone to the extreme complexity of design to achieve this precise result? Beings who came from those stars might at least have a rational motive to build such a complex and mysterious piece of technology.

        The mainstream view of the Great Pyramid as the Tomb of Cheops is wrong. It never was a tomb. Ralph Ellis argues in Thoth – Architect of the Universe that erosion on the foundation stones is evidence that it is at least ten thousand years old.

        The similarity in construction method between Egypt and Peru is highly improbable by chance. The similarity in writing between Easter Island and Pakistan is highly improbable. The length of the cubit as pi/6 meters is highly improbable. The location at the point of maximum longitude and latitude covered by land suggests global knowledge. The building of the pyramids in 20 years, as proposed by conventional archaeology, is not possible. The precision and scale of design and construction, and the encoding of global, astronomical and mathematical ideas, indicate that the pyramids are STILL a mystery.

        The Great Pyramid of Giza squares the circle. John Taylor discovered the perimeter of the Pyramid divided by double its height = pi, as presented in his book The Great Pyramid: Why Was It Built? And Who Built It?, published in 1859. Imagining another pyramid underneath the pyramid produces the perfect solid, the octahedron..

        The non-use of fire for light in the interior.

        The stela between the paws of the sphinx indicates the Leo-Aquarius axis of the golden age. A further claim, is that evidence of weathering suggests the pyramid is ten thousand years old.

        Many stone carvings that could not be done by traditional methods, and which are seen in South America as well as Egypt and Easter Island.

        These large complex ideas found their way into the Bible, especially in Revelation, with the pervasive secrecy of ancient cosmic religion about precession as the guiding principle of myth. One mathematical mystery in Revelation that could not have been known to ancient astronomy is the division of the holy city into 144 cubits. In terms of the apparent use of the holy city as a metaphor for precession, this number matches to the main signal period of the solar system as a whole.

        The complete lack of evolutionary precedent for the high technology of the pyramids, their similarity to mysterious constructions elsewhere in the world, the geomagnetic global circumference, and their apparent use as signals to the distant future, makes it highly questionable whether humans could possibly have built them without help from a higher civilization.

      • Hey Mark.

        I find your argument wholly lacking in completeness. next time, you must integrate this:

        :)

        I’m an Ocamm’s Razor kinda guy. I find it highly more likely that people, because they were on their own, way back, were far more aware of their surroundings than us domesticated, zoo animals placated daily with TeeVee and Mall shopping.

      • I agree that, fundamentally, we’re all on our own, but I think too many observers confuse this with “going it alone”. In my experience, lovers of freedom are among the first to acknowledge the incredible gains that we can realize by freely trading the fruits of our labors with each other.

        The statists are the first ones to put up arbitrary walls between “us” and “them” and then pit the in-group against the out-group.

      • Joshua: “The statists are the first ones to put up arbitrary walls between “us” and “them” and then pit the in-group against the out-group.”

        Huh, what?!? “The statists”?!? This “us vs. them” paradigm exists in ALL primates (heck, in many, probably all, mammals!!) “Us vs. them” is a situation of limited resources — which situation would be correctly called *reality* — is a natural, appropriate, and unsurprising. “Walls” are not arbitrary, they are required. (Granted, probably not the idiotic and ill-motivated walls moderns build, but certainly walls are necessary.) An accurate reflection of reality would include walls that protect our ‘in-group’ from other ‘out-groups’ — because there are just not enough resources to go around. All the ‘technology will save us’ (from wars, starvation, destruction) foolishness is just that, wee can just keep growing (or letting “outsiders” grow to displace us)!

        All the peace-love-dove crap that the “children” (of whatever age, in most modern western societies) have been brainwashed with (“we are the world” {gag}{choke}!) have led “us” to think there is some way to amicably and fairly “share” everything. Look around! Fresh water, food, space, safety? These have been source(s) of wars and fighting for millennia, including primates and “earlier” mammals! Then come hominids and we add in fighting for belief structures and systems… holy war(s) anyone? Boundary wars? (Which are just resource wars with drawn-on-paper territory.)

        I’m always flabbergasted by “anarchists” who think they can EITHER go it alone or band with other anarchists (doesn’t that defeat anarchy?!) to “hold” territory and resources (the slightly more clear-eyed if still-confused ones) and rely on concepts of ‘fairness’ and (what? More peace-love-dove crap?!?!) to keep their … band {eye roll} of anarchists from falling into internecine fighting over resources.

        Look, if your … er …. “band of anarchists” ({wince} just writing that makes me feel ill) has enough food for 9/10s of the … er… “band” — who doesn’t eat? How does your …er…. non-group-group decide which member(s) go(es) without? Ask for volunteers? Fight to the death to cut down the numbers? What if some (other anarchist?) folks come wandering in and want to … you know … join your group (er… non-group-group)? Yah gonna drive ‘em off? Enslave ‘em? Eat ‘em?

        So, if your … group … is going to hold and protect territory and resources (as it HAS to! Either you — your group — is in charge of its resources; or someone else will be!) — who’s gonna lead the war band? Who’s going to find and supply food so your war band — or at least this putative leader — can put in his time (and it’ll be a ‘him’) in preparing and protecting, not in managing resources for himself and his family? How will you keep him from specializing too far, and beginning (or needing) to take control? You gonna drive HIM out if he ‘gets too big’? (But then, who has the weapons?) (Who sets the schedule: “today you work on food, or today you work on gaining skills” to help him protect the group!? Who disciplines the {wince} band-members who don’t WANT to do what’s necessary?)

        An oligarchy (look it up) is *necessary* — just make sure it’s YOUR folks in charge, not someone else’s! (Such as we have today!) “Tribalism” is the correct (basis for a) way to eat; it’s also the correct way to structure a society! If your “tribe” is managed, controlled, and “protected” ({eye roll} TSA anyone?) by *foreign overlords* (i.e., not by your OWN overlords!) — then you’re NOT free, you’re slaves, or serfs at best! Joshua’s “lovers of freedom” is a child’s view! (No offense, it’s a common foolishness!) EITHER you belong to your own tribe, which runs itself — or you belong to someone else! EITHER your tribe is managed, controlled, and protected by YOUR OWN PEOPLE — or it’s owned by someone else! There is no alternative.

      • I like parenthetical statements as much as the next guy, but DAYAMN!

        I’m not sure I have the inclination to do a full discussion with you, but I do agree with some of what you said. Limited resources do tend to make the weak nervous and desirous of grouping out of fear, but this tendency is exploited by moochers & silly people who like to tell other people what to do, and so I buck it as much as I am able.

        I’m sad that you regard a love of freedom as childish, but I think the true childishness is the desire to be free FROM responsibility that so many statists share rather than the desire to be free to determine your own destiny to the greatest extent practicable.

    • A.B. Dada says:

      My question: how can people spontaneously form anarchist groups

      @halotek: you’re still thinking of things from the old perspective, that humans naturally evolve into unique groups. Without delving into the Utopiastic ideals that Nikoley has said he’s not a fan of (neither am I), my own life revolves around the idea of living life through anarchy without a focus on “groups” in any way. Thanks to the late Harry Browne for shining the light into my life when I was 19 years old or so.

      For me, and the anarcho-friendly people in my life, the reason for all relationships is founded on economic metrics. I don’t necessarily mean financial metrics, just pure economics.

      I have needs. I have abilities to fulfill needs of others. Sometimes I pay for my needs to be fulfilled, sometimes I barter openly, sometimes I barter subconsciously. Others may pay me for my abilities to fulfill their needs, or barter with me openly, or barter with me subconsciously.

      These are economic metrics. These are issues of supply and demand. If a lover isn’t taking care of my needs, then her price is too high and her performance is too low, so I replace her with another supplier, or at least bring on a secondary supplier. The same is true for those I receive my food from, or my housekeeping, or my cell phone service. Economic metrics.

      In life, our “groups” are figurative completely, as they change moment-to-moment. Our needs changes, our abilities to fulfill the needs of others change, it’s a constantly changing economy but it works because I am intimately aware of what I need daily,and what can do for others daily.

      Since my relationships (business, friends, lovers, family, fans, heroes) all seem to be very positive, I think it’s safe to say that my perspective on the anarcho-economic metrics of relationships works. I haven’t had a poor relationship of any sort in a decade, if not longer. My marriage, which was forced to follow a faith-perspective, failed because needs weren’t getting met; the costs were too high and the services provided was dreadful. I did not stick to an anarcho-economic metric system.

      Even when I break up a relationship, by explaining the rational anarcho-economic metric to the other “service provider”, the break up is usually very smooth, fluid, organic. Sure there are pains in changing “service providers”, but when you understand your needs and your abilities, and when you understand there is massive competition in all your economic markets (love, lust, platonic, learning, business, etc), you start to realize how amazing life is when you shrug off any and all group labels.

      • This is great, AB, and I’ll likely quote it in the next post in the series. No, not likely, will. Tomorrow most likely.

        Groups are like the Internet. We can be a part on various levels to a lot of them, integral to none. I’ll expound in the post.

  2. John Lash says:

    I would love to see you in Atlanta. AHS being nearby (I live in Athens, Ga.) will make it possible for me to attend.

  3. You should totally do a whole ‘potato’ presentation next year! Reading recent comments on Ray Cronise’ blog it looks like he is divorcing himself from the potato movement, and judging by the number of posts in the paleosphere on the ‘potato diet’, there is room for a guru! Richard Nikoley, Potato Guru!

    • Based on your experience TT, I’d say you should also be in the running for Potato Expositor.

      As for Gurus, I just don’t like the concept. I love that Richard is sharing his experiences, but I don’t see him as a guru.

    • Tatertot, too busy to follow and it’s been a week or so since I exchanged a word or two with Ray.

      Wat’s up, pray tell?

  4. I have a feeling Ray’ll be launching his commercial venture very soon.

    http://www.hypothermics.com
    …We know it isn’t the potatoes, because this is had been almost universally repeatable with the exception of all of the “hacks” out there adding lots of empty calorie fat and oil in the attempts of making it more palatable, when the anyone that was following this blog and my posts understands that this was designed to 1) change basic relationships with food – eating purposefully and 2) change the microbiome of the gut from one of fat-loving bacteria to one of resistant starch loving bacteria.

    I’m looking for long term health and scientific reproducibility, not quick fixes and supplement sales. It’s caused me to challenge some of my beliefs and when those tests have been yielded good results I stick with it. Of course diagnosis bias plays a huge roll out there and it takes discipline to overcome it.

    I’m willing to bet that the “gathering” as in hunter gatherer, is not emphasized as much as should be. That leads to excessive (unlimited), cheap, tasty calories. ..

    …That’s why I’ll launch the new part of my site in the next few weeks. It’s all about helping people succeed and funding my tenacious appetite (acquired btw :) to tear into status quo, keep the best and trash the rest. ..

    • Yea, OK, but Ray is a plant based diet guy, so I don’t completely buy the ‘no bias’ deal. I have zero interest in a plant based diet and will forever have zero interest, and so will all but a fringe of people who can “change basic relashipnships with food.”

      The potato deal is a hack, supposed to be a hack, and I completely celebrate it as a hack.

    • And by the way, 1 tsp of butter OO, or whatever fat per potato is far from “lots of empty calorie fat.” I’m disappointed in Ray for such a dishonest characterization. I wouldn’t do that to him.

  5. I don’t think Carbsane can get choked. Reading her drivel shows her gag reflex has long since vanished. (Sorry Melissa)

  6. I don’t believe we evolved to not enjoy our food to some – perhaps even a significant – degree. This quasi-monastic vibe you get from *some* of the reward/palatability crowd has the whiff of Judeo-Christian self-flagellation about it.

    That said, we evolved in conditions when the satisfaction of that desire for reward required more work. However, if we supply the work in the form of exercise and movement, as well as satisfying mental undertakings, I don’t see the need to pull out the dietary whips on ourselves.

    Fuck the monks. Love, move, work, fuck and eat with exuberance. Get/be strong and don’t demure. That’s how you fulfill your genetic potential; by being vibrant, gregarious and feeding on the bounty of life without self admonishment and concern that a slight misstep here or there on the nutritional path is going to significantly diminish your life expectancy. As though we’re delicate little things that aren’t built to survive a little punishment now and again.

    “Oh noes! The poutine is too rewarding!” Shut the fuck up and eat it, you fucking gimp. And enjoy it to the last little bit of greasy gravy-soaked curd you lick from your fingers. Just the way a hunter-gatherer would’ve gorged on fatty, highly palatable aurochs marrow and ribs http://news.discovery.com/history/ancient-barbeque-aurochs-110627.htm), wasting no time after the kill to satisfy their desire for food reward. I bet the dopamine and serotonin were flowing that night. Probably a couple of babies made, too.

    As most people have noticed, the more that most people eat whole, real foods, the more our bodies send out satiation signals, naturally moderating appetite and consumption. Sure, we live in a time of plenty, so there are times when we may have to exercise a little restraint with food beyond the constraints of a whole foods diet. But I just don’t buy that it’s necessary, nor appropriate to our being to have to spend our days deliberately making our food as bland as possible – as though all of our taste and olafactory senses, and their links to our reward system were there by accident or as some kind of Devil-sent temptation. Ever whipped up some SWEET potato with super FATTY coconut milk like the Kitavans? Don’t tell me that’s not wholly satisfying to the reward system. It’s positively more-ish. And don’t forget to light up a fag when you’re done.

    Less Christ. Less Aristotle. Screw the Stoics. More Epicure, more Neitzsche, more Ikkyu, more getting on with it and doing it with the sort of joy and gusto you see on the faces of people who don’t spend their time trying to figure out how to disable/workaround the parts of us that evolved specifically so we can enjoy things. Silly bitches.

    • This!
      You win the internet today.

    • Gene

      It may interest you to know that for the last hour or so, laying in bed before admonishing myself to get my ass up, I was contemplating how to write a post about all of this. Thanks, you just provided the core of it and I’m quoting it in today’s post word for word.

      Excellent.

    • Right Fucking On!!

    • This quasi-monastic vibe you get from *some* of the reward/palatability crowd has the whiff of Judeo-Christian self-flagellation about it.

      ==

      I see myself as someone who has a problem with food, on account of if I didn’t have a problem with food, I would never have weighed 230 pounds at 5′ 9″. I think that if you have a problem with food, and you want to look good and function well, you are going to have to take a stoic approach to the whole thing. I love to eat, I’m vain as can be, the two things are mutually inconsistent, therefore one must give way to the other, and I can no longer love to eat.

      A person who is not particularly vain, on the other hand, might decide that looking good must give way to the enjoyment he or she derives from eating, it’s not a one-size-fits-all universe.

    • Light up a fag? You’re advocating burning homosexuals?

      [I ain't afraid to make a stupid joke.]

  7. Oh, and in case it wasn’t obvious, “Hey Ray, one of the purposes of eating is enjoyment.” He bangs on about not wanting to be a “bench pressing biochemist” and here he wants us to all eat “more purposefully”, turning meal time into a pragmatic, scientific affair full of partial and whole aminos, etc. Shove it up your fertilizer shoot, Ray. I think I’ll eat happy things that ate good stuff and lots of whole veggies that didn’t know the difference. And you know what? I’m going to be more like the former and fucking enjoy it. You go be a vegetable, or a tree, or whatever being you’d rather be than the one you are.

  8. Nice talk, Richard. Knowledge is power – and the control of knowledge has long been used by the elites to keep the rest of us in line. As more of us break through that knowledge barricade of msm, it’s amazing how freeing that is. Everything from the healing power of real foods, to how to stand up for our inalienable rights when govt. tries to block access to real foods. (Google ‘creditors in commerce’ – these folks have some real interesting and occasionally effective strategies when facing legal assault.)

    What’s interesting though is how many of us choose to be sick and enslaved just because we want the ‘safety’ of authorities to protect and guide us. The alternative – your blank screen – going at it alone is just too terrifying.

  9. Gene, you are ON FIRE!!!
    Bravo! Life is too damn short not to enjoy yourself…

  10. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    Your presentation stands on its own; I fail, however, to see the need for sideswipes at Evelyn. Love her or loathe her, she deserves credit for being one of the first prominent voices within the LC community/paleosphere to take on the Carbohydrate-Insulin Hypothesis (and of course Taubes and the Jimmy Moore webpire) – without which there would be no ‘potato hacks’ or ‘safe starch’ discussions in the first place.

    • “without which there would be no ‘potato hacks’ or ‘safe starch’ discussions in the first place.”

      My original potato posts predate anyone ever hearing of her. I don’t think she has contributed jack shit.

      • I wish you would just delete his lunatic ass preemptively.

        It’s not like we have to read his posts to know what’s in them.

      • Ed, that would imply I have some trepidation surrounding his posts.

        nobody really knows or really understands how I work this. I care not a wit that ELMM does not agree with a lot of stuff. would like to get Jimmy Moore and Evelyn Kocur alone for diametrically opposed reasons. I care that he puts in some effort to participate. he comments a lot, and he seems to know how to toe a fine line.

        It’s nothing like a hit & run troller. In fact, he often contributes to getting some discussion of issues going.

        I know my place. I know what I’m doing.

      • I know you do. I just hate him, that’s all.

        I was kinda hoping you’d do it just to make me happy, lol. :-)

    • Dr. Curmudgeon Gee says:

      Jaminets were the one that coined the “safe starch”

      i dont’ read CarbSane, her blog is not interesting to me.

      this post is funny. XD

Trackbacks

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