Let’s Bash Sugar, OK?

What the hell. One of those days I just feel like putting up a few posts here and there. A little shit slung here, a bit there, call it a day.

I’ve grown weary of and now generally dislike infographics. Some are OK. I especially hate all the “let me do an infographic for your blog” spam I get, second only to all the “let me write a free guest post” spam.

This one’s pretty cool so far as they go.

Nursing Your Sweet Tooth
Created by: www.OnlineNursingPrograms.com

I guess the biggest takeaway is that if you give up your added sugars, you just bought yourself 10 strips of bacon per day. …Actually, I rarely eat bacon, anymore. Kinda just lost my lust for it and it so often just tastes so damn salty to me. I’m more inclined to use little bits now like in a salad or other dishes.

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  1. Chuck Currie says:

    When I dove into the deep end, I was, no sugar, no sugar, no sugar…then, no fruit, no fruit, no fruit…after reading some of Ray Peat’s essays I backed off a little. Now I have 5 or 6 teaspoons a day of raw cane sugar, raw coconut palm sugar or raw honey, plus a piece of fruit (most days). I also have 8 to 24 oz of raw milk a day. So I’ve up-ed my sugar intake a little and I didn’t die.

    Now you’ve got me eating potatoes – WTH’s going on?

    Life is good.


    • The dose makes the poison.

      I see absolutely nothing wrong with a few tsp of sugar per day. Remember when a juice glass used to be 4 oz and coca cola came in one of those 8 of 10 oz classic bottles? No big deal on that level now & then. While down over thanksgiving I had a regular soda one day. I think it was a root beer or something.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        Oh no, sugar is the devil!

        What a crock of shit. I chow down a truck ton of sugar every day, make sure of it in fact. Since I added it back in to my diet in spades after abandoning the good ship paleo-tard, I’ve become calmer, less stressed, happier, more regular, stronger, and didn’t put on an ounce of fat.

      • Sounds like morphine. Some people swear by it.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        Good for them. Doesn’t change the fact that sugar is not the cause of the obesity problem, or even anything remotely to do with it.

      • You’re making two assertions there, smuggling in the 2nd one because the first is probably true.

        Excess calories are the cause of the obesity epidemic. Sugar has a lot to do with it because in the form it’s most often consumed (drinks), it’s easy for people to consume 300+ extra calories per day they don’t need and for which they get no satiety signal.

      • n=1 & all, but I had no problem achieving and retaining 40+% bodyfat with zero help from sugary drinks.

        Just one more way I’m different from most people. :)

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        So Jimmy Moore is so fat cos he’s been secretly slurping down cokes and mountain dew all this time? Yeah right. You can over-consume anything, including fat.

      • That’s me too. Not a lot of sugar. Pizza & fast food.

      • That’s a single individual. I’m talking about the obesity epidemic in general. If you look at the data, the increase in sugar consumption tracks right along with the excess calories. Fat does not.

      • Oh, I I think that when Jimmy wa 400 pounds of whatever, he was doing like a 12 pack of soda per day or something like that.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        Fuck me, isn’t the whole paleo community constantly screaming how “correlation is not causation”? Or is that only when it’s convenient to the desired message?

      • I don’t know. What I do know is:

        1. the obesity epidemic is caused by excess caloric consumption.

        2. excess caloric consumption is easiest explained by the huge increase in sugar consumption over those decades.

        And it makes sense, too. It’s very easy to drink calories to excess and that’s how most sugar is consumed. When something looks so obvious to me, then I wait for someone to show me something even more obvious. Come to think of it, you have yet to show a single thing except that you seem to be a bit obtuse.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        That’s the same thinking that got the whole saturated fat is the devil ball rolling. Ever think that maybe excess consumption of calories is the result of something else, not the cause?

        Too obtuse? Fine, how about damaged mitochondrion as a result of poor diet (mostly due to polyunsaturated fats, omega 6 AND 3) and stress, and an inbalance of hormones, causing energy production to go down the path of anaerobic glycolysis, instead of the krebs cycle, leading to lactic acid production, a defect in cellular respiration and a deficiency in CO2 (which is very protective), and the flow on effects resulting in elevated levels of NEFA in the blood stream, leading to other problems like ROS, insulin resistance.

        Like I said, nothing to do with sugar.

      • “Ever think that maybe excess consumption of calories is the result of something else, not the cause?”

        You mean like when you weigh 200 pounds you consume more calories on average than when you weigh 170 or 180? Sure.

        I see nothing more obvious than that one gains fat weight from eating too much and one loses weight by eating less. What causes eating too much? I think a lot of things are possible and that it’s highly individual. Could be one, some, or some combination of those things you mention. But perhaps not for all. It could be nutrient deficiency (because so much of what’s eaten now—including sugar drinks—are devoid of nutrients. Could be pure gluttony for some.

        I think that Paleo and/or LC works for a lot of people at least initially or up to a point because they’re more satiated, eat less, lose weight, etc.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        No, I mean like it’s possible that if you stuff up your oxidative metabolism (damage your mitochondrion), or throw out your endocrine system, this might interfere with your satiety signals, causing you to consume more than you normally would if everything was working correctly.

        Cause and effect, around the wrong way. By the way, just like the whole gluten and bread is bad for you meme. I fell hook line and sinker for the idea that you shouldn’t eat bread because gluten may cause leaky gut. It’s the other fucking way around! If you have digestive problems, you may not be able to tolerate bread, not vice versa. Sort those out and if you have a gluten intolerance, it will probably disappear.

        I now happily consume as much bread as I like, after not being able to tolerate more than trace amount of gluten for a long time. All because I sorted out my digestive issues (hint – helped in large part by consuming more sugar).

        Cause and effect. The wrong way around.

      • “No, I mean like it’s possible that if you stuff up your oxidative metabolism (damage your mitochondrion), or throw out your endocrine system, this might interfere with your satiety signals, causing you to consume more than you normally would if everything was working correctly.”

        OK. I thought you were talking magic there so I was replying a bit tongue-in-cheek there. I have no issue at all with various hypotheses that fucking up the signaling causes overeating. This was from a a good while ago (2008) but touches on your cause/effect reversal thing.


        I stay away from bread because it’s the one thing almost certain to give me heartburn, and this is since I was a kid. Back in the 90s when I tried LC for the first time I experienced what a lot of people experience, heartburn goes away. So, assumed it was the carbs. Of course, I have since found out consuming fruit, milk, potatoes and such that it’s not the case at all. And now, with my potato experiment, eating a ton of carbs, I think my stomach is perhaps the most settled as it’s ever been. And yea, hands & feet stay nice & toasty, too.

        I don’t particularly have an issue with sugar. I just think it’s better to get it from food (fruits and such, some ice cream too) so that you’re getting nutritional value in vitamins & minerals and also some substance to help with the satiety signals.

      • “damaged mitochondrion”

        Going to pick up a used microscope on Ebay so that I can check whether my mitochondrions are damaged. If they are I intend to super-glue them back together.

        As far as the Krebs cycle goes, I have always preferred Italian bicycles. The krauts can’t build a good bicycle to save their lives.

      • The Japanese and Italians consume 60 and 100 grams of sweeteners per day, v. Americans which consume 160 grams per day and have average BMIs below 25, even though they eat a lot of carbs.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        What a fucking useful contribution! Thanks Rob

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        If you don’t have an issue with sugar, why did you write a post called Let’s Bash Sugar, and post an info graphic that blames sugar for everything from obesity to WWII and Justin Beiber?

      • “I’ve become calmer, less stressed, happier” Yet all your posts have an aggresive tone to them. I congratulate you that you are not gaining fat after switching to a truck load of sugar diet but you should reevaluate the other benefits you claim it has on you because the psychological benefits you claim are not evident in your posts. Perhaps change it to “delusions of calmness, less stress, happiness”? Then at least we can bottle it and market it as the next party drug.

      • “If you don’t have an issue with sugar, why did you write a post called Let’s Bash Sugar, and post an info graphic that blames sugar for everything from obesity to WWII and Justin Beiber?”

        Obviously, to Pwn trolls and Justin Beiber.

      • I forget, did I reference cocaine or morphine in my first comment in response to Freaky?

        I love my whiskey. People joke that I ought to do a “whiskey diet” book. Problem is, I can’t help but discriminate and make distinctions. How one feels is very important but such needs to fist rest on a sound foundation.

        I pretty much put refined sugar in the same category as my whiskey. I should be more afraid of bashing sugar.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        Ha I knew someone would eventually say something along those lines RobbieC.

        I can be calm while at the same time pointing out BS. But good pick up.

      • But you can’t have any perspective. It’s either no sugar or mainline sugar.

        So, those people back in the 1800s, early 1900s. Were they all doing it wrong? One must suppose that mitochondrial and thyroid damage was epidemic.

        They were sugar deficient!

        Come to think of it, we owe our very genetic lineage, even over ice ages to people who managed with sugar deficiency.

      • Sugar Freaky says:


        I never said you need sugar to be healthy, I just said it isn’t the cause of the obesity epidemic.

      • And I said that excess calories are the cause and sugar (especially liquid sugar) plays an obvious role in why people seem to be able to consume excess calories to the tune of 300 per day on average.

        Do know that I know you have not directly addressed that point once, on spite of the fact that I mentioned it early on and have mentioned it numerous times.

        But I get it. You’ve figured out the magician and its SO FUCKING COOL!!!


      • Sugar Freaky says:

        Yep, I have figured out the magician. And you are right, it’s pretty fucken cool.

        Off to bed huh? Sweet dreams darling.

      • Nope.

  2. Chuck Currie says:

    Oh yeah – I also have about a quart of ice cream a week. But it has to be real ice cream – no additives or gums (gums are nasty shit) – real food ice cream. Life is even better.

    Double Cheers

  3. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    And then you have the dangers of too much protein, which is no different than eating chocolate cake. According to a certain prominent low-carb webpire-master, at least.

    • [yawn]

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Just keeping you up to speed on the latest absurdity, Richard.

      • Did he actually say that or anything like that?

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:

        Nutritional ketosis talk in Australia. On YouTube.

      • Do you have the approximate time during the presentation so I can take a look at the context?

      • EatLessMoveMoore says:
      • Yea, that’s dumb. I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t hype for effect or a joke.

        Interesting. You can apparently “eat too much protein” and the weight gain comes from gluconeogenesis, not from eating too much period. Oh, my.

      • Protein drives a significant insulin response, so if the insulin hypothesis is correct, that’s one possible mechanism for too much protein = fatty mcfatterton.

        Too much protein can also drive you out of ketosis, so if you’re relying on ketosis for fat loss and appetite suppression, it’s something to look out for.

      • Sugar Freaky says:

        He keeps complaining of feeling cold because his system is incredibly stressed out and he’s probably massively hypothyroid due to his fucking insane diet destroying his thyroid & metabolism.

      • That is just because you are honest, Woo. You know that if you have to convince me to use your stuff, then I probably don’t need it (so why bother? lining your own and/or somebody’s pockets isn’t a compelling reason).

        I also suck at selling stuff.

  4. I agree that the does is the poison, but I’m afraid too many of us are demonizing sugar, just like so many have done the same to fat and salt. Our bodies require glucose, therefore we will always crave sugar, which is not a bad thing.

    I agree that most people overdo the sugar, and hence the does is the poison, but the reality is that we are consuming more of everything!

  5. Not just the dose is the poison, its the types of sugar being eaten. I bet the amount of sugar that graph is talking about, 90% is a corn sugar. Its the same with fat, people are probably overeating fat to, but not saturated fat like our great grandparents, but unsaturated seed oils.

    • I dunno, Zach. Perhaps at the high levels of consumption there’s some difference between HFCS and plain sugar, but I’m an Occam’s Razor kinda guy and so when people are over consuming on a daily basis long term I gotta figure that’s the real problem.

      However, at a few teaspoons per day or a soda every now and then, I don’t think it’s gonna make a bit of difference.

      • Probably not at low levels. But we both know that HFCS is metabolized different then sucrose.

        Also interesting that you and Matt Stone posted about sugar on the same day.

      • I don’t follow his blog but last I checked he was blogging about sugar all the time, so…

  6. blahblah says:

    I crave both sugar and bread at times , but nothing hurts me physically more than grains. Inflammation, gas, extreme cravings set in. My liver seems to be producing all the surgar I need from protein and then theres the ketones from coconut oil. I’m good. —— you know jm is a top hat/tap dance kind of performore but hey, itsa livin’ innit?

  7. FoesBook says:

    WHAT? You are not using G+ account?

  8. Seems like a lot of the replies deal with either, “eating sugar does not make me fat”, or “fat people would still be fat if they didn’t eat sugar”. These body image based opinions, contribute to the wrong outlook on health. Points to keep in mind are, refined sugar is useless, where as things like honey,maple or coconut sugar have beneficial minerals. If you’re consuming refined sugar on a consistent basis, you’re messing with the wrong poison. The health effects (non including bodyfat) are catastrophic with continued refined sugar intake. I am quite aware that high doses of even the natural stuff can backfire, but the objection to in-taking refined sugar vs the objection to intake any kind of sugar are two different debates to be had . So if you have a sweet tooth, and minimal will power, stick with the natural stuff, and hopefully we can rid the world of the refined crap. I can’t see how anybody interested in health can promote intake (at any amount) of refined sugar.

    Real sugar (honey,maple,whole fruits) are a welcomed edition to most peoples diets. As with all things, over consumption of any one food group may lead to complications.

    On a side note, when I was younger I had a friend who never drank or lit up b/c he said that he had trouble with will power and had a feeling if he took in these substances, his body makeup would be to over indulge in these powerful drugs. Yet nearly everywhere I look, I see this sort of thing happen with sugar. People need to become educated in it’s addictive effects just like they would with other body altering substances. Harnessing ones will power (and utilizing ones iq/eq) seems of the utmost importance when talking about consuming/doing things that can be addictive. Ignorance is NOT bliss.


  1. […] he gets plenty of shit from other commenters because he basically sings but one song. At any rate, he did clue me in to a section of a speech Jimmy just gave in Australia to some LC conference or some such thing. Even LowCarb Woo couldn't take […]

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