Matt Stone and General Cloistered Idiot Update

You know what I find odd?

I put this out there on September 27, 2013: Note To Matt Stone aka Body Temp “Guru”: You’re In Short Pants; and, You’re Welcome.

Not a peep. Anywhere. You'd think that at least someone, somewhere would have taken note of it, created a mess at his place, whatever. Turns out his 180DegreesWrong is now gone, behind a give-me-your-email deal, and he's gone cloistered—I guess so as to keep out anyone but true believers...as well as those too stupid to smell something being off when at the root of the website, you have to subscribe via email right off to see anything beyond a hot chick with a quadruple burger. Is that just a troll for the totally gullible? Yes, it is. His specialty.

What a fuckwit, and I called it right off WAY back in the beginning, April 2009: HED: High Everything Diet (If eating garbage is your problem, just eat more of it).

Anyway:

It raised my body temperature by 0.2-0.4 celsius. I take sustained release T3 but have never been able to break the 98F barrier for waking tempterature or even during the day. Cold all the time. It feels so luxurious to be this warm in the winter.

I replied:

Gittit, if you know who Matt Stone is, please tell him to fuck off for me, and that I will eventually make sure his idiot face is rubbed in this. You're not the first to report body temp increases.

What a deal. Wonder if he's still promoting eating so much you sweat, behind his PayWall, set up to look free.

Alrighty then....

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Comments

  1. Matt Stone was a speaker at Future of Nutrition conference
    http://futureofnutritionconference.com/conference/future-of-nutrition/

    Their speaker quality filter was low – they had people like David Wolfe:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkzAw6P2vfM

    As to Ray Peat – i don’t know his age, but on his site he writes “I started my work with progesterone and related hormones in 1968″ (46 years from now) – which suggest he is above retirement age in his early 70s, so lower levels of activity are not unexpected. And he still produces new articles – so he’s not hiding from anyone.

    The weirdest guy is Don Matesh, who wrote a book about “Plant based diets” winning over “Meat based diets” (that is so called false choice fallacy – eg. excludes omnivorous or opportunistic diets form the question) , but refuses to answer even the simplest questions on his blog, like what’s the definition of a “Plant based diet” – does it exclude meat completly, or just limits it to some low percentage? Like he doesn’t want to sell his book.

    • GTR

      All of Paleo chalked up Don to pussy/beta male a long time ago. Listen to his interview with Jimmy Moore, and what’s going on in the background.

    • It seems it’s not the reason for not answering difficult question from his four readers (overal ammount of comments he got on his book introduction blog post). Generally – he had been working on a book for 2 years, and finally made it. Then it turned out that his book is fundamentaly broken, by design, as exposed via the questions as in the comments.

      http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2013/12/powered-by-plants-natural-selection.html

      The questions were:

      1) “Don, are you saying that humans should never eat any animal meat, milk or eggs at all? That all humans should be vegans? Or are you saying that animal foods should be limited below a certain threshold? There is a very big difference between those two positions in my opinion. Many people become deficient on a whole foods plant based vegan diet.”

      2) “How do you define a “plant based diet” in the caloric sense? Let’s say is a diet based on 80% calories from plants and 20% of calories from animals a “plant based diet”? ”

      But what he did in his book was a confused assumption – he equalled “vegan” = complete animal product avoidance – a thing he wished to advocate for, with “plant based diet” – a very different beast, which he found and presented some supporting evidence for. Then people asked about a definition of “plant based diet” and what is the difference between it and veganism – and all his 2 years of work went to the toiled.

      http://www.positivelyplantbased.com/vegan-vs-vegetarian.html#sthash.Pcy49UIX.dpbs

      The former is most commonly ideological, something about animal rights. The latter is egoistic, based on desire for achieving personal health, by consuming appropriate plants as the main part of your diet, and main part of your thinking about diet; but which can include some meat. It’s different than traditional approach where meat was what you thought about, put on pedestal – eg. in one minds he ate “a rare beef steak from grass-feed beef with some vegetables” – as if the latter were some second-rate, not-that important part of the meal compared to steak. If I understand it correctly in plant-based diets the practicioner prioritetizes and values mostly plants, spends his diet-time-budget thinking about plants; learning which are the healthiest, using receipes that emphasize vegetables, fruit – more like “I ate brocolli, onions, sweet potato with cinammon, berries and oranges, with some meat” – as if the latter was not that improtant, second rate ingredient, but one that has a right to optionally be there.

      But in a sense Don is in not that bad situation – he just has to give up on veganism advocacy, go full ahead into this concept of “plant based diet”, and then rewriting his book should be a breeze.

    • Wow, GTR, I had no idea he even had a book. Hadn’t looked at his site for a long time. Four comments? 1 single review on Amazon?

      Then, if you look at his posts since the book, most have zero comments. He used to have quite a good amount of swag in Paleo and for a time he was pretty damn sensible, one of the first, like me, to start talking about storage organs as good food. When I met him at AHS11 I couldn’t help but like the guy. Can’t help but feel sorry for him now, but it’s of his own doing.

  2. My funny story for you and your readers.

    I had very, very good results with LC few months ago, then started feeling tired of it and I finished on Matt Stone website. I’m always skeptical, you know, no religions, no gurus, no bullshits, need proof and so on. Still, I wanted to believe the guy. I don’t know why. Maybe all this stuff, dieting, gaining weight, eating healthy, sometime is too stressful that our brain goes tilt. I started introducing what I like in my diet, without thinking so much: refined sugar, pasta, pizza, sweets, fries, you know.

    I thought that I really loved this idea and I hoped that it worked, because it’s too good to be true. It wasn’t true. The result: I gained 25 pounds. One day I looked myself at the mirror, with my new “carb face” and I realized that the guy was so wrong and I’ve been an idiot.

    Yes, I’ve been an idiot and I have no excuses. I’m enough of a man to admit it and to learn from that, as I always do when I fail (I really think the most succesful people are the ones who fail the most). Thank God I never sent money to the guy because one of his book was for free on Amazon (now I understand the strategy, very clever).

    I wanted to know what I did and what happened. Your posts have been the key to understand what I did good with LC (eating more real food), what I did wrong with LC (eating too few vegetables, fruits and resistant starches), and what I did wrong with the so called HED (eating too much refined, processed food, also known as crap).

    Now I’m on a sort of Paleo, I eat real food (meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruit, nuts), I always cook and I started losing weight again. My carb face is almost gone and I have no artificial craving for refined sugar and crap because I really enjoy my meals. I’m so happy and I can’t thank you enough to make it so clear and passionate.

  3. Anonymous says:

    What does this have to do with Ray Peat?

  4. I’ve let people know my thoughts about Matt Stone before. It’s funny how invested his followers are. And very one up.

  5. EatLessMoveMoore says:

    Let’s not forget that Matt publicly called out Jimmy Moore – and the idiocy of low-carb as a ‘lifestyle’ – WAY before the writing was as on the wall as it is now.

    • … and I believe it was Kurt Harris who said something to the effect of “If Matt Stone was a weatherman, he would claim he correctly predicted 7 of the last 3 hurricanes.”

    • ELMM

      And I blogged it when he did, to great lafing.

      http://freetheanimal.com/2010/03/poor-poor-matt-stone.html

      This is why I don’t like you, only tolerate you. You are simply on an anti Jimmy campaign and I can’t even imagine the ugliness of a soul like that, for as long as you’ve been on it, so dedicated.

      Do you have a closet or special room with like lots of pics of Jimmy tacked on the wall, burnt out candles and shit?

  6. The thing that’s really crazy about Matt Stone and his entire “Eat For Heat High Metabolism Diet Recovery” thing was that it was all pretty much based on the work of Broda Barnes, who I believe he discovered thru Ray Peat. But if you go back and look at Broda Barnes work (which is solid in it’s own right), it was all about treating hypothyroidism with Dessicated Thyroid, and NOT diet and exercise. In fact, Broda Barnes didn’t council his patients on diet and exercise deliberately, as he explains in his work on the Thyroid and Heart Attacks. The only diet advice he recommended was a low carb diet (in about the 1600 calorie range) to his obese patients, so they could lose weight without hunger. A diet that Matt would most likely call “metabolically destructive.”

  7. I can’t even imagine the kind of person that has Jimmy Moore as their antichrist.

    I mean Jimmy fucking Moore?

    How is it possible to give a shit about Jimmy Moore?

    • John, and he’s been at it for YEARS, now. Like every comment he ever makes, every one, years, dozens if not hundreds, have a Jimmy undertone at minimum.

      I’m almost at the point of thinking ELMM is a Jimmy sock puppet, just to keep energy high. :)

    • EatLessMoveMoore says:

      Three words, John: Banality of evil.

  8. What happened at 180degreehealth is quite interesting. Matt was employing Anthony Colpo who wrote an article called ‘Healthy Whole Grains?’ which was based on an email conversation I had with him a few years ago (‘The Whole Grain Scam’). Matt thought Colpo was right about whole grains. I wrote some comments showing Colpo’s mistakes and not long afterwards Matt suddenly wasn’t employing him any more and changed the format so you can’t comment.

  9. Haha. You guys are so funny. Yeah, I did it to hide behind a paywall, lol. No, actually I prefer people to read my books than stumble upon a cluttered an unorganized blog. And now give them all away for free to my subscribers. See, free book here: http://amzn.to/1a9D1uB

    I haven’t said a word about Jimmy in almost 4 years. I moved on. Why haven’t you?

    • Matt:

      Ok, granted it’s your place, you get to run it as you see fit; but I have to wonder about so many anecdotes chez toi of not just a little, but massive weight gain in the pursuit of raising body temperature.

      Truth is, I never cared about body temperature. I rather, care about feeling cold, and in particular, cold hands & feet. And, here’s where you were right: chronic VLC seems to do that (but not cyclical or fasting if carbage is sufficient otherwise). On board. See here, post just a couple of days ago:

      http://freetheanimal.com/2014/01/carbing-this-beast.html

      But guess what has been fixing all that for so many? Perfect Health Diet, or my variation of adding legumes, corn tortillas, etc. Worked for me, works for a lot, no weight gain. So, have you changed from advising people to eat junk: fast food, pizza, sodas, etc? If so, good.

      Otherwise, aren’t you just a bit curious that something as simple as 2-4 TBS of potato starch daily, that’ 80% resistant starch by weight (you would have to eat pounds of food to get this much RS) has had dozens of folks who track morning body temp report that their temps have raised up into the 98.6 range? There’s a lot.

      Or, is it that it has to be Matt Stone Prescription (with all the downsides)? There’s over 50 posts here on RS, but this recent one has people reporting their OTHER benefits as well:

      1. BG regulation
      2. #2
      3. Vivid dreaming and deep restful sleep.

      Another biggie is just all around calmness.

      http://freetheanimal.com/2014/02/reported-benefits-resistant.html

      What bad is a free book if it ultimately harms people or, doesn’t clue them into a far better solution to achieve the same goal? Hell, you don’t even need to give me or Tatertot Tim credit. Just help these people in the best way and now you are being told unequivocally the best way and if you claim to care, then you are derelict and harmful if you don’t at least check it out.

      Finally, shortly after this post, I got messages on Facebook from an ex-girlfirend of yours. I’ll leave it at that.

    • Hey Richard,

      I do write about resistant starch as a metabolism-stimulating tool. It was in my original Diet Recovery book that debuted many years ago. You don’t follow my work that closely or you would know that. Here’s a video I did on resistant starch before you had ever even heard of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyDJrn66yhA. Like most, you browse a few things and then take them out of context to make me sound like an idiot. I used to do that kind of thing too, but I just don’t anymore. I don’t care about what everyone else is doing and thinking.

      I recommend extremely calorie-dense foods (typical western foods, like pizza and ice cream, preferably those low in polyunsaturated fat) to those in an extreme calorie shortage with disordered eating psychology for whom whole foods-adherence hasn’t worked. It swiftly returns metabolic rate to normal or above normal. Some gain a lot of weight, some don’t. Many need to gain a lot of weight. Many also lose weight after. If I could get the same consistent results with potato starch, carb cycling, Jaminet’s approach, etc. I would recommend that. But that comes up short for most of the people that find me.

      I also recommend that people phase out of metabolic rehab and into cleaner eating with a high volume of exercise–following the holy trinity of “eat hard, play hard, sleep hard.” Any weight gained is meant to be temporary and with a purpose. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t… just like every other health protocol, diet, workout, program, etc. on earth.

      Thanks for posting my response.

    • Hi Matt:

      Thanks for popping in in the first place, and taking the time to reply in the second.

      BTW, your video (as well as a post, if I recall) was mentioned in comments in some of the earliest posts that go back to April 2013.

      This is something you perhaps want to take a deeper look at because the anecdotes are pretty damn amazing. Here’s the tag link for all the posts, some w hundreds of comments. You don’t have that much time I know, but I suggest you at least scan through the pages of posts and check out a few that might catch your interest.

      http://freetheanimal.com/2013/12/resistant-primer-newbies.html

      I don’t blame you for not pursuing RS in the far deeper way that we’ve done because if you look at the numbers….

      http://freetheanimal.com/2013/08/resistant-starch-content-of-foods-other-anecdote-and-miscellania.html

      …it’s damn hard to get all that much of it on any modern diet. We’re just not out on the savanna digging up tubers, rhizomes, corms, eating tree bark, etc. (along with all the SBOs to go along with it). Best bet in a real food sense is green bananas and green plantains either in smoothies or dried; cooked and cooled potatoes, cooked and cooled rice, parboiled rice (twice the RS), and cooked and cooled legumes.

      Except for the green banana and green plantain, going to be hard to get more than about 10 grams, but so many of the studies use 30 grams and that’s where the big results show up. So then, Tatertot Tim stumbled on the idea of potato starch after seeing it used in a pig study. Come to find out, it’s 80% RS, 20% moisture (it has to be taken raw, like mixed in a beverage or at most warm food, otherwise the starch granules burst like popcorn), so we began experimenting with it. 4 TBS is about 30g RS.

      Same results as the studies. You’re an experimenter, so you might want to try. It’s as easy as picking up a bag of Bob’s Red Mill Unmodified Potato Starch (NOT potato flour) at the local Whole Foods. Be prepared for hilarious levels of gas at first. And I do mean hilarious. But now, I can take 8TBS and rarely have a toot. Can also eat all the beans I want with no fartage.

      Cheers.

    • @Matt – looking at older articles – the knowledge about RS started being available mych earlier than 2010, here is one example:

      http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server../info/articles/nutrients/resisstarch.htm
      “Last Updated: July 2005″, and it refers to 2004 research.

      So you both published about the subject quite late compared to the scientific journals. When it comes to hearing or reading about it – I wouldn’t be surprised if many people had heard something about it early, but just went by (like “it’s just a fiber” or similar), and now perhaps even don’t remeber about it. What Richard and Tim have been doing is more like a lot of systematic promoting and pushing it, making it serious, rather than an interesting curiosity as in your approach.

  10. Yeah, very telling that he deleted all the old blogs and comments. You can still reach the forum via Google, though. Here’s a recent entry about the “Future of Nutrition” conference. The person who started it seems typical…they have gained 60 pounds on the “High Everything Processed and Unhealthy” diet. I’m surprised so many are willing to gain that much weight..and that it doesn’t bother Matt to get people even more addicted to overreating the SAD.

  11. Danny Grayson says:

    No need for any beef. Both of y’all have helped ppl and will continue to help ppl. The whole Stone/Legge/Kaleo moderation camp are helping heaps (including me) getting over unnecessary restrictions. Hell, without you and Evil Sugar Radio I wouldn’t be eating lentils (had red today – said I was gonna get 1 cup – had two), rice, and oats (had 2 cups today – I love starch). I mean I had cookies, two burgers, and chips yesterday, and loved the game w/ my friends – I couldn’t of done that in Dec.

    Be better being friends and exchanging ideas.

    • The paleo/low-carb moderation started before that. Tim Ferris’ slow-carb diet (heavy on beans/lentils) was one early example. I won’t give Stone any credit. If he just talked about adding beans, potatoes, etc., that would be fine. Instead, he’s all about pizza, cheesburgers, pastries, Pepsi, etc. Having exceptions for the Super Bowl or “cheat days” is one thing. Eating like that all the time and gaining 50+ pounds (as many 180-ers have) is totally different.

    • My Super Bowl was 6 crunchy Taco Bell tacos with plenty of hot sauce, whiskey & water on the side.

      A burger & fries will give me heartburn and general ill will while I can eat corn tortillas all day long, no heartburn, no hypo-coma.

    • I’m totally with JP. We should carefully read the books and the forum to understand the point. The message is: relax, SAD is not really a problem, your body is the problem, your ruined metabolism is like a broken engine and needs to be fixed, you should be free to eat anyhing you want, you live in the modern world, do you really think you can avoid all those pizzas and soda and garbage?

      I sincerely don’t think I oversimplified. Read the stuff if you don’t believe me. The usual commenters are all about “time for another biscuit now” and “let’s go celebrate with another brownie”.

      When some poor fat guy ask them if it’s normal that he suddenly gained 60 pounds, they all reply nonsense like “yes, sometime it happens, it’s not bad”, “just wait another couple of months and you’ll see”, “you’re on the right way to fix yourself”. It’s like a junkie that needs to get rid of drugs among people constantly offering him drugs.

    • @Onny – perhaps Matt missed a chance of his life – making a better SAD-looking diet? It’d be an interesting experiment what would happen if you remove toxic and cancerogenic substances from SAD. Like having similar products, eg. a haburger with fries, but a hamburger made from gluten-free bun and grass-fed beef, and fries done on coconut oil, while with ice soda made from real extracted lemon?
      Surely this would be better than SAD, while not requiring stubborn people to change their

    • I just glanced at his forum for the first time since I posted here. The latest 180 degree “success” story: “When I started in July I was around 145 lbs. Now I’m around 235. It is extremely uncomfortable. I am starting to regret even doing this. My temps are still in the 96s, even in most evenings. I’ve tried multiple things to get them up- 5,000 cals a day, eating tons of salt, drinking next to nothing, eating tons of sugar, etc. Nothing has worked!”

      http://180degreehealth.com/180forums/topic/wrong-working/

      Yikes.

  12. Wow, missed this blog post! I have something to say about Matt Stone:
    – A few times I checked things at his frmer website (180degreehealth or something like that) but not for his own writings. There was this serie of articles from his buddy Colpo about grains. I read it and I found it quite cool. A while later, I wanted to check some of his references, in particular the one comparing white rice vs brown rice on mineral absorption or induced deficiency due to phytic acid in borwn rice. And to my surprise, I find this weirdo new site telling people to give an email address. So I did, I gave a garbage address …

    The resulting spamming from Matt Stone is outstanding!!

    I never read this stuff, it goes straight to the spambox. I happened to see the first line of his last message, something like “Sorry if my email activity looks like spamming … ” Well man, don’t be sorry, it IS spamming :D

    • You’re wrong, La Frite, and this why I hate all people.

      You signed the fuck up.

      Don’t knock Stone. You’re the pervert here. you signed up. volunteered. That you gave a “garbage address” is self serving garbage and immaterial.

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