Richard Nikoley's Jungle of Self Direction
What does it do, primarily?
I’d say among the hundreds of anecdotes from thousands of people trying it out worldwide, it’s: improved blood glucose regulation—both fasting blood glucose and blunting of spikes after starch foods—vivid dreaming with deeper sleep, and batter bathroom TMI: regularity, constipation, improved stool consistency.
In an ordered list, 1, 2, 3, I’m thinking we put the TMI stuff at #2, right?
Stark Brandstone
Yeah, TMI over dreams/sleep. Not that sleep isn’t important to health or that there isn’t enough evidence for the claim but it certainly is easier to track digestive benefits from ingested supplements than sleep and dreams.
Lenny
Didn’t get the #2 joke, obviously
Darin
For those who are experiencing better sleep are you taking RS right before bed? I’ve avoided taking RS before bed because I put it in water and don’t want to drink much water prior to sleep to avoid waking up to urinate.
I take RS first thing in the morning prior to my coffee but have not noticed better sleep. This might change based on the responses.
gabriella kadar
Darin, mix 2 tablespoons of PS into two tablespoons of yoghurt. You may or may not need to add a little bit of water, not much but it’s pretty smooth. I was just wondering if coconut milk would achieve the same result since it ought to keep the starch suspended until it’s consumed. Coconut milk is thick enough. Even milk works better than water. Don’t know about almond ‘milk’ or rice ‘milk’ but they’ve got a lot of sugar added.
I took tapioca starch last night and it didn’t appear to have the same effect on remembering dreams. Took it this morning on an empty stomach. No significant effect on blood sugar. But 4 hours later, still not having eaten anything, blood sugar was entirely stable even though I was hungry. So it’s doing that, keeping blood glucose from dropping.
BethM
Darin, I take all of my potato starch first thing in the morning in water, on an empty stomach and I’m still experiencing the improved sleep and vivid dreams. However, that didn’t start until I changed my probiotic. I was taking Prescript Assist, and if I didn’t take PS right before bed, I had no change in sleep/dreams. I recently switched over to Probiotic-3, which Dr BG highly recommends, and the change in my sleep/dreams was instant. I just didn’t have enough good bacteria for the PS to make enough of a difference, I suppose.
Beth, thanks for posting that. I had some good results with Prescript Assist, which enabled me to take the PS without getting headaches or cramping and see some better sleep and improved blood sugars. And have for while been considering trying the probiotic 3 to see if it improves anything further but wondering if it would be worth it to spend the money since there was nothing overt that was uncomfortable. But your experience makes me think I should give it a whirl. It prompted me to order some now. Will report back.
BethM
Ellen, I hope it works as well for you as it has for me! In addition to the improved sleep/dreams, I also went from having really putrid gas from potato starch (I couldn’t even stand MYSELF!) to having pretty much odor free gas when I switched to Probiotic-3. I have also seen some improvement in my candida overgrowth symptoms and my mood and energy have been better. I really can’t say enough good things about it.
Bethie
Hi BethM, can you tell me what Probiotic-3 is? Is it VSL-3? And do you do anything else for probiotics like kefir, sauerkraut, kombucha, etc? Very interested in your post!
Michael M
I’ve started (on the advice of my wife) having potato starch in the morning. I take a teaspoon (not heaping – just a small mound) and dissolve it in a separate small glass of fresh coffee! Stir immediately – it’s like having hot coffee pudding in the morning. I don’t gulp it, just eat it with a teaspoon in small amounts as I read my paper – and wash it down with my regular cup of Joe (with milk, no sugar).
Not bad! And yes – I do get GERD symptoms occasionally – this does help along with my “little purple pill” equivalent!
If you’re putting it in hot coffee (and you say it’s pudding) then you are getting zero RS. Essentially, it’s rather like just a tsp of sugar, only it’s fast absorbing starch.
KAWAM
OOOH, how about COLD coffee? (I hate re-heated coffee, but will drink left-overs cold.)
kayumochi
Began the 4 tbs of PS in May 2013 and it took many months before I became leaner with no other changes in my diet. Was jealous of those with improved stool consistency because I had none … until recently when I upped the PS to the 6-8 tbs range.
I’m curious to hear from anyone who’s suffered from any of the following symptoms prior to beginning a RS regimen: are you feeling better now? How long did it take? What sort of “protocol” do you follow?
–Constipation
–Depression/Anxiety/OCD
–Urinary frequency/pain
–“Fuzzy Head”/Bloated Belly/”feeling too full”
Harriet
My fluctuating diarrhoea and constipation changed overnight from the first tablespoon. I thought I was just getting one of my good days (nothing works that fast does it?). But the good days continued. Even when I inadvertently ate something I shouldn’t have which usually lead to a Bristol 6 (like liquid) I only went to a 5. I’ve been taking it a month now and I vary from a 3/4 through to a 4/5 with mostly a comfortable 4.
I take 2 tbs in the morning before breakfast with a probiotic. 1tbs late afternoon and 2 just before bed.
I had a bit of a bloated belly for the first fortnight but not since.
gabriella kadar
I just take it once or twice per day on empty stomach and it gives me a settled stomach feeling. Improves sleep quality (REM) regardless what time of day I take it. Prefer to take it on an empty stomach.
If I eat vegetables plus PS, poop is Bristol 4 to 4.5. Not enough vegetables: small pingpong balls but not hard ones. I don’t get gas or bloating. For me, it makes for Bristol 4 to 4.5 but only if I also have eaten vegetables. For some reason, unlike others, PS doesn’t induce farting. I don’t take more than 2 tablespoons at a time because 4 tablespoon doses cause some lower abdominal colicky pain as though it’s just too much to squish along. Did that with both PS and tapioca, same effect. For me it’s too much at once.
Charles
My GF had diarrhea problems for decades. A couple of months of PS, plus Prescript-Assist SBOs completely cured it. The improvements started immediately, but it took a few months to be completely managed. She is now seeing inflammation reduction (our hypothesis) based on the fact that she has not lost any weight, but her face (and mine) are noticeably thinner.
I have noticed a significant improvement in mood and background anxiety. What was described as “foggy brain,” is gone.
ozquoll
Charles, I have had the same improvement in mood and anxiety levels. I have also seen a big improvement to a long-term knee injury and chronic tension that i held in my shoulders. I put this down to a decrease in inflammation, and am planning to get some blood tests to confirm.
Even better (I think) is that I didnt anticipate those results – I started taking PS to help my blood glucose, which it did.
One more thing – I didnt notice the mood improvements till I was taking more than 4 tablespoons a day.
BethM
Sarabeth, I was dealing with constipation, intermittent depression and brain fog. All of these have greatly improved since I started taking potato starch. But it’s not JUST the potato starch. In the morning, I take all of my PS (3 Tbsp right now), 2 tsp. psyllium powder and a scoop of Amazing Grass ORAC. Even when I was slowly titrating up w/PS and was only taking a teaspoon morning and night, the above mix (I use a shaker cup) improved my constipation immediately.
Changing from Prescript Assist to Probiotic-3 also made a big difference for me. I have a lot more energy now and my head is more clear. Less depression, as well.
Thank you – these are fascinating puzzle pieces, and I’m looking forward to being able to post something useful myself in a few months or so…
Jon McRae
I have started to notice that with the improved REM sleep, last night I could have sworn that I was back on the fire line with the dream that I had, my mood swings, I swear I was following my wife’s menstrual cycle swings, I am starting to have stronger feelings of well being which lead to me being happier. Happy gut = Happy Brain?
Charles
Absolutely, happy gut= happy brain.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20974015
Assessment of psychotropic-like properties of a probiotic formulation (Lactobacillus helveticus R0052 and Bifidobacterium longum R0175) in rats and human subjects.
Messaoudi M1, Lalonde R, Violle N, Javelot H, Desor D, Nejdi A, Bisson JF, Rougeot C, Pichelin M, Cazaubiel M, Cazaubiel JM.
Author information
Abstract
In a previous clinical study, a probiotic formulation (PF) consisting of Lactobacillus helveticus R0052 and Bifidobacterium longum R0175 (PF) decreased stress-induced gastrointestinal discomfort. Emerging evidence of a role for gut microbiota on central nervous system functions therefore suggests that oral intake of probiotics may have beneficial consequences on mood and psychological distress. The aim of the present study was to investigate the anxiolytic-like activity of PF in rats, and its possible effects on anxiety, depression, stress and coping strategies in healthy human volunteers. In the preclinical study, rats were daily administered PF for 2 weeks and subsequently tested in the conditioned defensive burying test, a screening model for anti-anxiety agents. In the clinical trial, volunteers participated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomised parallel group study with PF administered for 30 d and assessed with the Hopkins Symptom Checklist (HSCL-90), the Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS), the Perceived Stress Scale, the Coping Checklist (CCL) and 24 h urinary free cortisol (UFC). Daily subchronic administration of PF significantly reduced anxiety-like behaviour in rats (P < 0·05) and alleviated psychological distress in volunteers, as measured particularly by the HSCL-90 scale (global severity index, P < 0·05; somatisation, P < 0·05; depression, P < 0·05; and anger-hostility, P < 0·05), the HADS (HADS global score, P < 0·05; and HADS-anxiety, P < 0·06), and by the CCL (problem solving, P < 0·05) and the UFC level (P < 0·05). L. helveticus R0052 and B. longum R0175 taken in combination display anxiolytic-like activity in rats and beneficial psychological effects in healthy human volunteers.
eddie
ozquoll,
Wondering how you’re knee and shoulders are doing because it sounds very close to my symptoms. Are you still better? Still taking 4 TB a day of PS?
Deb
I did the American Gut project and my gut results came back as mostly firmicutes and bacteroidetes with only tiny amounts (like 0.01%) of other types. There was no bifidus listed in my results. I tried the 3 T RS in yogurt or kefir for a week. I can’t say if it gave me heartburn or if it was from something else, but I had terrible heartburn. I am going to start back at a lower dose of say 1 t and see if I can work it up slowly once the heartburn is gone. I seem to be sleeping well.
I have also experienced heartburn with potato starch. I just began my 4th potato starch trial; the other three times I tried it I ended up with heartburn and quit. I’m still (foolishly?) hoping it was all coincidence. My dose is dialed back to 1/2 a teaspoon per day. I’ve added lentils and cooled potatoes and rice to my diet too – but I’m really hoping the PS ends up working for me.
Annika, do 8 TABLESPOONS in water, empty stomach in the morning, empty stomach and don’t eat until the afternoon,
Do that for a few days, tell me about your heartburn then.
I was a chronic sufferer since a teenager, as is my dad and three brothers. I know heartburn like no other.
All you’re doing is feeding the stuff causing the heartburn, not flushing them down the drain with bait.
Harriet
Has that been tried in other conditions? If such a hefty dose gets rid of one undesirable critter it might get rid of others.
Resurgent
There is a good 3 part article on heartburn here:
syontix.com/gastroesophageal-reflux-disease-part-one-definition/
Hmm. If a small amount of PS causes heartburn, the solution is to take a shit-ton of it? A ballsy strategy. I just might give it a shot (not right away, I have a bad cold and don’t want to confound things).
A note: I NEVER have heartburn normally, only when taking potato starch. Although this time around I haven’t had heartburn – I’ve taken 1/2 tsp of PS daily for three days, and so far so good. Fingers crossed. I’m much more inclined to increase my dose gradually rather that blast out my system with 8 tablespoons (yikes).
Deb
Yeah, I’m not brave enough to try that either! But last night I took 1 teaspoon in kefir and no problems at all so far. I am hoping my heartburn was from something else.
Last week I switched from potato starch to tapioca starch and got the same result: heartburn and dyspepsia, no farts. It’s a delayed reaction, though – I’m fine for 2 or 3 days on RS, then the heartburn kicks in, then I quit the RS but still have heartburn for a couple of days. I started out taking 1 TBS and went down in dose in hopes of reducing my symptoms.
My gut is usually just fine, and I’m pretty darned healthy. That said, are my symptoms on RS an indication that I have low-level SIBO, and that the bugs in my small intestine are having a big party courtesy of the RS I’m tossing down there, and that’s what is causing my symptoms?
I’ve been reading a bunch over at Grace/Dr. BG’s blog (url-removed/2013/11/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel.html in particular – thanks again, Tim). Based on what I’ve learned there, I think my plan is to add a probiotic with soil-based organisms and to take some psyllium with my RS.
On the one hand, it seems a bit silly to try to fix a problem that is non-existent unless I take supplemental RS. But all the success stories are so compelling and damn it, I want to experience those crazy x-rated dreams too! Oh, and it would be nice to fix my high fasting blood sugar and sky-high LDL, too. So I hate to just give up.
I’m not quite brave enough to try this approach just yet. If a 1/2 teaspoon causes me so much discomfort, I hate to imagine what 8 tablespoons would do. I’ve considered it, but pussied out. Good news. though: plantain flour is in the mail!
Anika:
Yes, do do the SBOs, post coming on that soon, including—and you heard it here first—my large pizza experiment over Saturday Olympic coverage.
Are you a fraidy cat, lovely girl? Tried 4-8 TBS in water, immediately upon waking as a flush, as I have?
(Chronic GERD guy since teenager).
C’mon, girl, take one for the team, 3-4 days straight. Don’t you ever feel the need to just fuck it?
C’mon, heartburn is an event. I’ve killed it completely a million times in my life with a rounded tsp of baking soda stirred in water.
You can only produce to much stomach acid and I’ve killed heartburn after eating a large pizza myself.
You are being very pussy, Annika, luv.
Ugh, felt so crappy all day today. This sucks. I’m most definitely NOT trying 8 tablespoons. Sticking with food sources, getting some SBOs, then MAYBE I’ll think about trying supplemental starch again. Right now it’s not worth it to take something that makes me feel so awful. Benefits be damned. I’m very jealous of everyone that can get away with taking PS and having farts be the only downside.
Sorry to hear it. Yea, try the probiotics. I’ll be blogging it soon but I am totally surprised by the quick results within days taking all three of these:
– Proscript Assist
– AOR Probiotic-3
– Primal Assist
I’ll be blogging it soon.
Have you considered trying the plantain and/or banana flour?
Charles
Do you mean Primal Flora?
gabriella kadar
Annika, there are some ‘healthy’ foods which can cause heartburn, nausea etc. For example apples, blueberries, strawberries, cape gooseberries and blackberries. Because of the fibres in these fruits, the stomach takes a while to clear them. The persistence of the acids from these fruits can result in nausea when they clear from the stomach into the duodenum.
Oranges are fine because they are mostly juice. The acid in citrus is not bound into the fruit mass. Lemon juice, lime juice will pass through without issue also because these are liquids.
Something to consider although you have not reported what else you eat. Some people will get acid reflux during sleep if they eat an apple a couple of hours before bedtime. Applesauce, on the other hand, appears to be processed without incident because it is mush.
Primal Defense is actually what I meant.
I don’t eat a ton of fruit, usually an average of 1-2 servings a day. I hardly ever eat fruit in the evening. I have never had heartburn before; well, once in a blue moon maybe, but nothing that went on unrelenting for days until experimenting with potato starch and then tapioca starch. I also have a sensation of fullness (not bloating exactly – it’s hard to describe) in my epigastric region. I’ve been so excited about the potential benefits; this has been a very disappointing setback.
Deb
I jumped right in with 3T a day, got heartburn & nausea for a week. Quit for a couple days and started back in with 1t (I mix mine with yogurt or kefir). Then went to 1T. No heartburn. Then back to 2T. Heartburn again. Milder than with 3T. So now I’m back to 1T again. I slept like a log and remember dreaming more on the 2T. I think maybe I will work up from 1T in smaller increments – maybe 1t at a time or even less. Or, try not taking 2T all at once. “TMI” is much improved with the yogurt/kefir/starch combination. Maybe it takes awhile for the right bacteria to build up. I did American Gut and was found to have hardly any lactobacillus and no bifidus.
tatertot
Annika – It sure sounds like you have what Norm R. and Grace warned us about — SIBO. Meaning maybe bacteria in your SI are fermenting the starch in the wrong place.
Have you looked at Graces 7 steps? url-removed/2013/11/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel.html It’s still a bit of a work in progress, I think she said she is reconsidering the psyllium and maybe changing a few other things slightly. We were working on a section in the book for recommendations, and kind of settled into 2 paths, one for the ‘commoner’ who has no issues, and one for folks with digestive problems. The second path will be the 7 steps.
Then there’s also Norm’s method of starving everything for relief, digestivehealthinstitute.org/
but it doesn’t really sound like you are at that point. But it may be helpful. So, sorry we aren’t miracle workers, hopefully you figure out what works and let us know. No sense in keeping with something that clearly causes problems.
Yes, Norm agreed that intermittent therapeutic fasts ought to help with SIBO.
However, and I especially stress with women: fasting does not mean eating less, but rather, getting your proper requirements over 5-6 days rather than 7.
I think I must have low-grade SIBO, mild enough so I don’t normally have noticible symptoms but enough so that the RS I eat causes a wild orgy in my small intestine. I spent quite a few hours over at Dr. BG’s looking at the 7 steps. I have AOR Probiotic-3 on order and have been taking run-of-the-mill probiotics in the meantime. I plan on making sure I eat fermented foods every day – I brew my own water kefir and make saurkraut, but will ramp up my comsumption. I hope I don’t have to resort to a low-FODMAP or similar diet (give up onions?! Nooo!). I skip breakfast a few days a week already; I will try a longer fast.
My plantain flour arrived in the mail yesterday, but I’m going to wait for my poor gut to settle down before I try it. Meanwhile, I have rice pudding and mashed potatoes in the fridge, and air-dried plantain chips in my cabinet.
My symptoms are somewhat better today. This morning I got all excited when I thought I had a bunch of farting coming on, but alas, it amounted to nothing. I never would have imagined wishing for farts! My guess is there’s nothing left of the RS by the time in gets to my colon because of all those buggers in my small intestine.
Deb, I initally started with a TBS of PS, and eventually dialled it back to a 1/2 tsp, which still caused symptoms. You’d think such a tiny amount wouldn’t do anything at all, especially since I’ve never been one to avoid potates. I guess it’s powerful stuff!
Thanks for your help, everyone.
Tim, could you elaborate about reconsidering the psyllium? Are you guys now thinking it’s not such a good idea?
tatertot
I don’t want to speak too much for Grace, but she indicated that psyllium was causing troubles for some people, maybe using too much, and she has some other ideas. If you use, it just stick to like 1/2tsp. I think it swells up too much and can kind of ‘bind things up’.
The studies show psyllium as being very good at helping potato starch ferment, but too much is not a good thing.
We have been working Grace pretty hard as Science Editor, one of these days she’ll get back to blogging.
” I got excited when I thought I had a bunch of farting coming”
HAHAHAHA!
I had such a magnificent TMI this morning that I want to call in the neighbors to see!!
“This morning I got all excited when I thought I had a bunch of farting coming on, but alas, it amounted to nothing.”
….Here I sit, broken hearted;
Came to shit, but only farted
Only scale makes a difference.
Should read ” I wanted to call the neighbors”
Otherwise it sounds like I never flushed. I did.
Tanya
Is it possible that you have very slow motility? I ask because I think my daughter has SIBO, based on her history of digestive problems and lower abdominal bloat, but she’s been fine with the potato starch (1-1.5 tablespoons for I guess more than a month now? and fewer calories overall because she’s 10, so however this stuff scales for kids). She had a couple minor headaches and a little upset stomach in the first week or so, but we see that with both positive and negative digestive changes, and both are long gone now; she seems to be tolerating the PS fine at this point.
But (and this is a wild-ass guess) I wonder if specifically slow motility through the small intestine would cause the symptoms you’re experiencing–maybe a SIBO with slightly different focus/weak spot than my daughter’s.
I saw that Grace rec’d long walks to help with motility. For my son, triphala (a combo of herbs) was shockingly helpful at getting things moving in a more timely fashion.
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Yeah, TMI over dreams/sleep. Not that sleep isn’t important to health or that there isn’t enough evidence for the claim but it certainly is easier to track digestive benefits from ingested supplements than sleep and dreams.
Didn’t get the #2 joke, obviously
For those who are experiencing better sleep are you taking RS right before bed? I’ve avoided taking RS before bed because I put it in water and don’t want to drink much water prior to sleep to avoid waking up to urinate.
I take RS first thing in the morning prior to my coffee but have not noticed better sleep. This might change based on the responses.
Darin, mix 2 tablespoons of PS into two tablespoons of yoghurt. You may or may not need to add a little bit of water, not much but it’s pretty smooth. I was just wondering if coconut milk would achieve the same result since it ought to keep the starch suspended until it’s consumed. Coconut milk is thick enough. Even milk works better than water. Don’t know about almond ‘milk’ or rice ‘milk’ but they’ve got a lot of sugar added.
I took tapioca starch last night and it didn’t appear to have the same effect on remembering dreams. Took it this morning on an empty stomach. No significant effect on blood sugar. But 4 hours later, still not having eaten anything, blood sugar was entirely stable even though I was hungry. So it’s doing that, keeping blood glucose from dropping.
Darin, I take all of my potato starch first thing in the morning in water, on an empty stomach and I’m still experiencing the improved sleep and vivid dreams. However, that didn’t start until I changed my probiotic. I was taking Prescript Assist, and if I didn’t take PS right before bed, I had no change in sleep/dreams. I recently switched over to Probiotic-3, which Dr BG highly recommends, and the change in my sleep/dreams was instant. I just didn’t have enough good bacteria for the PS to make enough of a difference, I suppose.
Beth, thanks for posting that. I had some good results with Prescript Assist, which enabled me to take the PS without getting headaches or cramping and see some better sleep and improved blood sugars. And have for while been considering trying the probiotic 3 to see if it improves anything further but wondering if it would be worth it to spend the money since there was nothing overt that was uncomfortable. But your experience makes me think I should give it a whirl. It prompted me to order some now. Will report back.
Ellen, I hope it works as well for you as it has for me! In addition to the improved sleep/dreams, I also went from having really putrid gas from potato starch (I couldn’t even stand MYSELF!) to having pretty much odor free gas when I switched to Probiotic-3. I have also seen some improvement in my candida overgrowth symptoms and my mood and energy have been better. I really can’t say enough good things about it.
Hi BethM, can you tell me what Probiotic-3 is? Is it VSL-3? And do you do anything else for probiotics like kefir, sauerkraut, kombucha, etc? Very interested in your post!
I’ve started (on the advice of my wife) having potato starch in the morning. I take a teaspoon (not heaping – just a small mound) and dissolve it in a separate small glass of fresh coffee! Stir immediately – it’s like having hot coffee pudding in the morning. I don’t gulp it, just eat it with a teaspoon in small amounts as I read my paper – and wash it down with my regular cup of Joe (with milk, no sugar).
Not bad! And yes – I do get GERD symptoms occasionally – this does help along with my “little purple pill” equivalent!
If you’re putting it in hot coffee (and you say it’s pudding) then you are getting zero RS. Essentially, it’s rather like just a tsp of sugar, only it’s fast absorbing starch.
OOOH, how about COLD coffee? (I hate re-heated coffee, but will drink left-overs cold.)
Began the 4 tbs of PS in May 2013 and it took many months before I became leaner with no other changes in my diet. Was jealous of those with improved stool consistency because I had none … until recently when I upped the PS to the 6-8 tbs range.
I’m curious to hear from anyone who’s suffered from any of the following symptoms prior to beginning a RS regimen: are you feeling better now? How long did it take? What sort of “protocol” do you follow?
–Constipation
–Depression/Anxiety/OCD
–Urinary frequency/pain
–“Fuzzy Head”/Bloated Belly/”feeling too full”
My fluctuating diarrhoea and constipation changed overnight from the first tablespoon. I thought I was just getting one of my good days (nothing works that fast does it?). But the good days continued. Even when I inadvertently ate something I shouldn’t have which usually lead to a Bristol 6 (like liquid) I only went to a 5. I’ve been taking it a month now and I vary from a 3/4 through to a 4/5 with mostly a comfortable 4.
I take 2 tbs in the morning before breakfast with a probiotic. 1tbs late afternoon and 2 just before bed.
I had a bit of a bloated belly for the first fortnight but not since.
I just take it once or twice per day on empty stomach and it gives me a settled stomach feeling. Improves sleep quality (REM) regardless what time of day I take it. Prefer to take it on an empty stomach.
If I eat vegetables plus PS, poop is Bristol 4 to 4.5. Not enough vegetables: small pingpong balls but not hard ones. I don’t get gas or bloating. For me, it makes for Bristol 4 to 4.5 but only if I also have eaten vegetables. For some reason, unlike others, PS doesn’t induce farting. I don’t take more than 2 tablespoons at a time because 4 tablespoon doses cause some lower abdominal colicky pain as though it’s just too much to squish along. Did that with both PS and tapioca, same effect. For me it’s too much at once.
My GF had diarrhea problems for decades. A couple of months of PS, plus Prescript-Assist SBOs completely cured it. The improvements started immediately, but it took a few months to be completely managed. She is now seeing inflammation reduction (our hypothesis) based on the fact that she has not lost any weight, but her face (and mine) are noticeably thinner.
I have noticed a significant improvement in mood and background anxiety. What was described as “foggy brain,” is gone.
Charles, I have had the same improvement in mood and anxiety levels. I have also seen a big improvement to a long-term knee injury and chronic tension that i held in my shoulders. I put this down to a decrease in inflammation, and am planning to get some blood tests to confirm.
Even better (I think) is that I didnt anticipate those results – I started taking PS to help my blood glucose, which it did.
One more thing – I didnt notice the mood improvements till I was taking more than 4 tablespoons a day.
Sarabeth, I was dealing with constipation, intermittent depression and brain fog. All of these have greatly improved since I started taking potato starch. But it’s not JUST the potato starch. In the morning, I take all of my PS (3 Tbsp right now), 2 tsp. psyllium powder and a scoop of Amazing Grass ORAC. Even when I was slowly titrating up w/PS and was only taking a teaspoon morning and night, the above mix (I use a shaker cup) improved my constipation immediately.
Changing from Prescript Assist to Probiotic-3 also made a big difference for me. I have a lot more energy now and my head is more clear. Less depression, as well.
Thank you – these are fascinating puzzle pieces, and I’m looking forward to being able to post something useful myself in a few months or so…
I have started to notice that with the improved REM sleep, last night I could have sworn that I was back on the fire line with the dream that I had, my mood swings, I swear I was following my wife’s menstrual cycle swings, I am starting to have stronger feelings of well being which lead to me being happier. Happy gut = Happy Brain?
Absolutely, happy gut= happy brain.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20974015
Assessment of psychotropic-like properties of a probiotic formulation (Lactobacillus helveticus R0052 and Bifidobacterium longum R0175) in rats and human subjects.
Messaoudi M1, Lalonde R, Violle N, Javelot H, Desor D, Nejdi A, Bisson JF, Rougeot C, Pichelin M, Cazaubiel M, Cazaubiel JM.
Author information
Abstract
In a previous clinical study, a probiotic formulation (PF) consisting of Lactobacillus helveticus R0052 and Bifidobacterium longum R0175 (PF) decreased stress-induced gastrointestinal discomfort. Emerging evidence of a role for gut microbiota on central nervous system functions therefore suggests that oral intake of probiotics may have beneficial consequences on mood and psychological distress. The aim of the present study was to investigate the anxiolytic-like activity of PF in rats, and its possible effects on anxiety, depression, stress and coping strategies in healthy human volunteers. In the preclinical study, rats were daily administered PF for 2 weeks and subsequently tested in the conditioned defensive burying test, a screening model for anti-anxiety agents. In the clinical trial, volunteers participated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomised parallel group study with PF administered for 30 d and assessed with the Hopkins Symptom Checklist (HSCL-90), the Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale (HADS), the Perceived Stress Scale, the Coping Checklist (CCL) and 24 h urinary free cortisol (UFC). Daily subchronic administration of PF significantly reduced anxiety-like behaviour in rats (P < 0·05) and alleviated psychological distress in volunteers, as measured particularly by the HSCL-90 scale (global severity index, P < 0·05; somatisation, P < 0·05; depression, P < 0·05; and anger-hostility, P < 0·05), the HADS (HADS global score, P < 0·05; and HADS-anxiety, P < 0·06), and by the CCL (problem solving, P < 0·05) and the UFC level (P < 0·05). L. helveticus R0052 and B. longum R0175 taken in combination display anxiolytic-like activity in rats and beneficial psychological effects in healthy human volunteers.
ozquoll,
Wondering how you’re knee and shoulders are doing because it sounds very close to my symptoms. Are you still better? Still taking 4 TB a day of PS?
I did the American Gut project and my gut results came back as mostly firmicutes and bacteroidetes with only tiny amounts (like 0.01%) of other types. There was no bifidus listed in my results. I tried the 3 T RS in yogurt or kefir for a week. I can’t say if it gave me heartburn or if it was from something else, but I had terrible heartburn. I am going to start back at a lower dose of say 1 t and see if I can work it up slowly once the heartburn is gone. I seem to be sleeping well.
I have also experienced heartburn with potato starch. I just began my 4th potato starch trial; the other three times I tried it I ended up with heartburn and quit. I’m still (foolishly?) hoping it was all coincidence. My dose is dialed back to 1/2 a teaspoon per day. I’ve added lentils and cooled potatoes and rice to my diet too – but I’m really hoping the PS ends up working for me.
Annika, do 8 TABLESPOONS in water, empty stomach in the morning, empty stomach and don’t eat until the afternoon,
Do that for a few days, tell me about your heartburn then.
I was a chronic sufferer since a teenager, as is my dad and three brothers. I know heartburn like no other.
All you’re doing is feeding the stuff causing the heartburn, not flushing them down the drain with bait.
Has that been tried in other conditions? If such a hefty dose gets rid of one undesirable critter it might get rid of others.
There is a good 3 part article on heartburn here:
syontix.com/gastroesophageal-reflux-disease-part-one-definition/
Hmm. If a small amount of PS causes heartburn, the solution is to take a shit-ton of it? A ballsy strategy. I just might give it a shot (not right away, I have a bad cold and don’t want to confound things).
A note: I NEVER have heartburn normally, only when taking potato starch. Although this time around I haven’t had heartburn – I’ve taken 1/2 tsp of PS daily for three days, and so far so good. Fingers crossed. I’m much more inclined to increase my dose gradually rather that blast out my system with 8 tablespoons (yikes).
Yeah, I’m not brave enough to try that either! But last night I took 1 teaspoon in kefir and no problems at all so far. I am hoping my heartburn was from something else.
Last week I switched from potato starch to tapioca starch and got the same result: heartburn and dyspepsia, no farts. It’s a delayed reaction, though – I’m fine for 2 or 3 days on RS, then the heartburn kicks in, then I quit the RS but still have heartburn for a couple of days. I started out taking 1 TBS and went down in dose in hopes of reducing my symptoms.
My gut is usually just fine, and I’m pretty darned healthy. That said, are my symptoms on RS an indication that I have low-level SIBO, and that the bugs in my small intestine are having a big party courtesy of the RS I’m tossing down there, and that’s what is causing my symptoms?
I’ve been reading a bunch over at Grace/Dr. BG’s blog (url-removed/2013/11/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel.html in particular – thanks again, Tim). Based on what I’ve learned there, I think my plan is to add a probiotic with soil-based organisms and to take some psyllium with my RS.
On the one hand, it seems a bit silly to try to fix a problem that is non-existent unless I take supplemental RS. But all the success stories are so compelling and damn it, I want to experience those crazy x-rated dreams too! Oh, and it would be nice to fix my high fasting blood sugar and sky-high LDL, too. So I hate to just give up.
I’m not quite brave enough to try this approach just yet. If a 1/2 teaspoon causes me so much discomfort, I hate to imagine what 8 tablespoons would do. I’ve considered it, but pussied out. Good news. though: plantain flour is in the mail!
Anika:
Yes, do do the SBOs, post coming on that soon, including—and you heard it here first—my large pizza experiment over Saturday Olympic coverage.
Are you a fraidy cat, lovely girl? Tried 4-8 TBS in water, immediately upon waking as a flush, as I have?
(Chronic GERD guy since teenager).
C’mon, girl, take one for the team, 3-4 days straight. Don’t you ever feel the need to just fuck it?
C’mon, heartburn is an event. I’ve killed it completely a million times in my life with a rounded tsp of baking soda stirred in water.
You can only produce to much stomach acid and I’ve killed heartburn after eating a large pizza myself.
You are being very pussy, Annika, luv.
Ugh, felt so crappy all day today. This sucks. I’m most definitely NOT trying 8 tablespoons. Sticking with food sources, getting some SBOs, then MAYBE I’ll think about trying supplemental starch again. Right now it’s not worth it to take something that makes me feel so awful. Benefits be damned. I’m very jealous of everyone that can get away with taking PS and having farts be the only downside.
Sorry to hear it. Yea, try the probiotics. I’ll be blogging it soon but I am totally surprised by the quick results within days taking all three of these:
– Proscript Assist
– AOR Probiotic-3
– Primal Assist
I’ll be blogging it soon.
Have you considered trying the plantain and/or banana flour?
Do you mean Primal Flora?
Annika, there are some ‘healthy’ foods which can cause heartburn, nausea etc. For example apples, blueberries, strawberries, cape gooseberries and blackberries. Because of the fibres in these fruits, the stomach takes a while to clear them. The persistence of the acids from these fruits can result in nausea when they clear from the stomach into the duodenum.
Oranges are fine because they are mostly juice. The acid in citrus is not bound into the fruit mass. Lemon juice, lime juice will pass through without issue also because these are liquids.
Something to consider although you have not reported what else you eat. Some people will get acid reflux during sleep if they eat an apple a couple of hours before bedtime. Applesauce, on the other hand, appears to be processed without incident because it is mush.
Primal Defense is actually what I meant.
I don’t eat a ton of fruit, usually an average of 1-2 servings a day. I hardly ever eat fruit in the evening. I have never had heartburn before; well, once in a blue moon maybe, but nothing that went on unrelenting for days until experimenting with potato starch and then tapioca starch. I also have a sensation of fullness (not bloating exactly – it’s hard to describe) in my epigastric region. I’ve been so excited about the potential benefits; this has been a very disappointing setback.
I jumped right in with 3T a day, got heartburn & nausea for a week. Quit for a couple days and started back in with 1t (I mix mine with yogurt or kefir). Then went to 1T. No heartburn. Then back to 2T. Heartburn again. Milder than with 3T. So now I’m back to 1T again. I slept like a log and remember dreaming more on the 2T. I think maybe I will work up from 1T in smaller increments – maybe 1t at a time or even less. Or, try not taking 2T all at once. “TMI” is much improved with the yogurt/kefir/starch combination. Maybe it takes awhile for the right bacteria to build up. I did American Gut and was found to have hardly any lactobacillus and no bifidus.
Annika – It sure sounds like you have what Norm R. and Grace warned us about — SIBO. Meaning maybe bacteria in your SI are fermenting the starch in the wrong place.
Have you looked at Graces 7 steps? url-removed/2013/11/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel.html It’s still a bit of a work in progress, I think she said she is reconsidering the psyllium and maybe changing a few other things slightly. We were working on a section in the book for recommendations, and kind of settled into 2 paths, one for the ‘commoner’ who has no issues, and one for folks with digestive problems. The second path will be the 7 steps.
Then there’s also Norm’s method of starving everything for relief, digestivehealthinstitute.org/
but it doesn’t really sound like you are at that point. But it may be helpful. So, sorry we aren’t miracle workers, hopefully you figure out what works and let us know. No sense in keeping with something that clearly causes problems.
Yes, Norm agreed that intermittent therapeutic fasts ought to help with SIBO.
However, and I especially stress with women: fasting does not mean eating less, but rather, getting your proper requirements over 5-6 days rather than 7.
I think I must have low-grade SIBO, mild enough so I don’t normally have noticible symptoms but enough so that the RS I eat causes a wild orgy in my small intestine. I spent quite a few hours over at Dr. BG’s looking at the 7 steps. I have AOR Probiotic-3 on order and have been taking run-of-the-mill probiotics in the meantime. I plan on making sure I eat fermented foods every day – I brew my own water kefir and make saurkraut, but will ramp up my comsumption. I hope I don’t have to resort to a low-FODMAP or similar diet (give up onions?! Nooo!). I skip breakfast a few days a week already; I will try a longer fast.
My plantain flour arrived in the mail yesterday, but I’m going to wait for my poor gut to settle down before I try it. Meanwhile, I have rice pudding and mashed potatoes in the fridge, and air-dried plantain chips in my cabinet.
My symptoms are somewhat better today. This morning I got all excited when I thought I had a bunch of farting coming on, but alas, it amounted to nothing. I never would have imagined wishing for farts! My guess is there’s nothing left of the RS by the time in gets to my colon because of all those buggers in my small intestine.
Deb, I initally started with a TBS of PS, and eventually dialled it back to a 1/2 tsp, which still caused symptoms. You’d think such a tiny amount wouldn’t do anything at all, especially since I’ve never been one to avoid potates. I guess it’s powerful stuff!
Thanks for your help, everyone.
Tim, could you elaborate about reconsidering the psyllium? Are you guys now thinking it’s not such a good idea?
I don’t want to speak too much for Grace, but she indicated that psyllium was causing troubles for some people, maybe using too much, and she has some other ideas. If you use, it just stick to like 1/2tsp. I think it swells up too much and can kind of ‘bind things up’.
The studies show psyllium as being very good at helping potato starch ferment, but too much is not a good thing.
We have been working Grace pretty hard as Science Editor, one of these days she’ll get back to blogging.
” I got excited when I thought I had a bunch of farting coming”
HAHAHAHA!
I had such a magnificent TMI this morning that I want to call in the neighbors to see!!
“This morning I got all excited when I thought I had a bunch of farting coming on, but alas, it amounted to nothing.”
….Here I sit, broken hearted;
Came to shit, but only farted
Only scale makes a difference.
Should read ” I wanted to call the neighbors”
Otherwise it sounds like I never flushed. I did.
Is it possible that you have very slow motility? I ask because I think my daughter has SIBO, based on her history of digestive problems and lower abdominal bloat, but she’s been fine with the potato starch (1-1.5 tablespoons for I guess more than a month now? and fewer calories overall because she’s 10, so however this stuff scales for kids). She had a couple minor headaches and a little upset stomach in the first week or so, but we see that with both positive and negative digestive changes, and both are long gone now; she seems to be tolerating the PS fine at this point.
But (and this is a wild-ass guess) I wonder if specifically slow motility through the small intestine would cause the symptoms you’re experiencing–maybe a SIBO with slightly different focus/weak spot than my daughter’s.
I saw that Grace rec’d long walks to help with motility. For my son, triphala (a combo of herbs) was shockingly helpful at getting things moving in a more timely fashion.