Logic 101: Why The Resistant Starch And Gut Biome Revolution Means Doom For VLC/Keto

It has gone way beyond an embrace of resistant starch. Back in the day—meaning about a year ago—my Google alerts delivered webstuff on RS a coupla times per week, at best. Now, it’s a half dozen per day as the world comes to realize the enormity of the gut’s profound influence on health in the very general. RS is but one element, but a very important one: easy to see results fast and cheap.

…Lafably, you still have people writing only about the Krebs Cycle, the hormones leptin and insulin, “signaling,” and “PATHWAYS!!!!” et al. You see, I take criticism because I never put you to sleep with that sort of deconstruction minutiae. Let those who blog that stuff have their geek followers. Don’t care. Never did.


More fish, troll I.

I’ve come to receive more and more comments from VLC/Keto proponents trying to be conciliatory about it—cool enough, progress, etc. I don’t mean to pick on rs711; it’s merely the latest, and the one that inspired this post specifically.

150g of CHO is too much for more and more people.

This is absurd.

But, I’ll explain nicely. A comment along the same lines—trying to reconcile the irreconcilable—put this forth:

I don’t know why the keto/low carb community will not just choose to integrate RS. As you point out some already have. Why not the rest? How long will it be until RS supplements start appearing in stores?

My reply:

Because, they understand quite well that embracing it is like welcoming Barbarians at the gate of the Castle.

Bank on it.

…I’ll elaborate just a bit to give you a clue as to why this is and why RS is a zero-win for VLC/Keto.

Should it turn out that supplementation via things like PS, green plantain/banana flour, etc., help folks, then it takes no genius to conclude that they were fucktarded from day one. Or, ignorant-fucktarded, to be more magnanimous.

Nobody had access to isolated RS in human evolution. Ergo, starch consumption in various forms is a more appropriate dietary regime.

Resistant starch is a Trojan Horse for the VLC/Keto crowd. They know that very well, and it’s why you see such vigorous defense of VLC/Keto all over—which, I dismiss entirely; because, I know what it is, and why it is. I’m pretty good at knowing in what to invest my energies. Duh. Try to protect an investment in a dietary regime from the 1970s that turns out to be wrong because unknowns weren’t integrated, or try to understand more and more about the gut biome; where, incidentally, 100% of the revelations point to the benefits of real-food carbohydrate in the diet?

Place your bets. LC/Keto are Buggy Whips, but go ahead and try to keep the industry alive.

So, that’s really the most fundamentally logical reason why VLC/Keto is now doomed: the rapidly emerging science of the gut biome that heretofore, has been 100% unaccounted for.

Moreover, this logically means that paleo advocates ought divorce from LCers and lend no more support. It is simply the Law of Identity—i.e., of non-contradiction—that LC is about restricting a macronutrient (carbohydrate) no matter what, and paleo is about understanding the appropriate human diet via ever developing knowledge about not only what was eaten but now, gut microbiology that dovetails quite nicely with the developing evolutionary and anthropological knowledge in other areas.

The puzzle is coming together, which is the essence of the paleo paradigm qua foundational template.

Want a belly laf? Human mother’s milk is about 30% sugar.

We should have known, eh?

Alright, the second part of the logical equation is more practical, lo, pernicious. You see, the VLC/Keto advocates have had a trick up their sleeves for decades to fool you. It goes like this:

  1. Do an Atkin’s style Induction Diet for 2 or more weeks
  2. Measure ketones; pee purple
  3. Test your blood glucose regularly, especially after meals
  4. Freak out when you next eat some carbs and see your BG readings

A self-fulfilling, baked-in-the-cake scam of confirmation bias.

Here’s the thing.

When you go ketogenic—either by LCHF (low protein too) or fasting—you develop physiological insulin resistance. Because your brain requires upwards of 130 grams daily of glucose, then if you’re not ingesting it because LC-Guru, your body—as an evolutionary survival adaptation in the face of perceived starvation—makes it from protein (even your heart muscle if it has to; welcome to the optimal chronic dietary regime). But, it also guards glucose like Fidel Castro holds onto 1950s communism. To do that, it gives you a form of metabolic syndrome. It’s analogous to the physiological ”Type 2 Diabetes” of a bear in late fall, about to hibernate for 5 months.

What’s the result? It’s that, in the way VLC/Keto is promoted now, you have been admonished to monitor your blood glucose regularly. Of course, everyone knows everyone cheats and when you do let Satan into your bed with that piece of your child’s birthday cake, WHAM! You’re minimally pre-diabetes, if not type 2.

You have self diagnosed. You can no more eat any carbs than a couch potato who fears a heart rate of over 100 bpm can climb a flight of stairs. I suppose that couch potato would be analogous to a low-carb butter ball.

Guess what? This isn’t just speculation on my part. I have scienzez to show you.

  1. Way back in 1928, 1936, and 1972, three very similar experiments were conducted on Inuit living their traditional diets. The results were identical even though the testing methods improved. They gave them a huge bolus dose of glucose and unlike you LCers who can’t “climb a flight of stairs,” they displayed normal physiologic glucose tolerance, spiking to about 140 mg/dL, perfectly normal. Cleard within a couple of hours. Then, they put them on an 80 hour fast in order to induce unequivocal ketosis. Gave them the same glucose. They spiked to 400 and 3 hours later, some were still over 300. My post on it: To Reiterate, Just In Case You Missed It: No Elevated Ketone Levels in the Inuit.
  2. Ironically, Vilhjalmur Stefansson—the guy who popularized the arctic and Inuit for countless VLC/Keto advocates—tested out exactly the same after his Belleview experiment. Crap ability to handle glucose after the year, restored to normal after 3 weeks on a nomal diet: More Uncovering of the Inuit Myth: Stefansson and Anderson Belleview Experiement; Compromised Glucose Tolerance.

At what point are people of good sense going to recognize that the new knowledge of the gut biome and its requirement for much fermentable fiber is a complete game changer (VLC/Keto is just a small aspect, though the very most wrong of everybody on this point)? At what point, as well, are people of good sense going to recognize that VLC/Keto has been a convenient, baked-in-the-cake scam (unintentionally, but the convenience exists) all along by creating physiological insulin resistance that by means of admonishments to measure blood glucose regularly, is then used anecdotally to convince people that carbohydrates are bad?

But you know what? All you VLC/Keto folks are welcome to continue. I love beating you up, and I don’t need to recite PATHWAYS!!!!! from textbooks to do it.

Since Covid killed my Cabo San Lucas vacation-rental business in 2021, this is my day job. I can't do it without you. Memberships are $10 monthly, $20 quarterly, or $65 annually. Two premium coffees per month. Every membership helps finance this work I do, and if you like what I do, please chip in. No grandiose pitches.


  1. John Myers on August 19, 2014 at 16:48

    “So, that’s really the most fundamentally logical reason why VLC/Keto is now doomed: the rapidly emerging science of the gut biome that heretofore, has been 100% unaccounted for.”
    If we’re just beginning to learn about the gut biome why would you even speculate about the keto biome? RS enhanced biome? How is that Logic 101?

    • Richard Nikoley on August 19, 2014 at 17:44

      “the keto biome?”


    • John Myers on August 19, 2014 at 23:05

      We don’t know what’s going on in the biome, yet you’ve decoded it and keto diet makes a bad gut population. We’re still guessing who’s good and who’s bad from limited studies.
      Gut bugs are apparently important, but when we wipe them out with antibiotics we don’t tip over dead. So how important are they?
      I’ve been eating raw onion to get my inulin. I’ve added bob’s red mill (since Jan 2014) and I do have better sleep and I’m past the hilarious fartage stage. I want to keep the many neopets in my nethers happy.
      At some point humans did pass through a needle’s eye called the ice age, where plant matter couldn’t sustain us and the survivors were better suited to an animal based diet, and those who had different needs died.

    • LaFrite on August 20, 2014 at 01:29

      I just would like to say that living during an icea-ge does not mean that you live on the ice the whole time … ice-age flora is well described and studied, and I don’t think the diet of humans was devoid of plant matter at all. The more recent proxy for an ice-age lifestyle was that of the nordic / arctic people who do (did) have access to plant matter (no juicy peaches though … damn!)

    • eddie on August 20, 2014 at 06:08

      until you scan the RNA18 of yeast and fungus
      and compare bacteria RNA16 and yeast/fungus together you cant come to conclusions on bacteria alone. This area just mystifies me??? Im still lost as to why more then half of these researchers dont look at the other thing living in us… changing or growing depending on who much bread yeast, beer , and foods with fungus contaminated on it ( corn , grains etc) even to much fruit
      ****tiger nuts have a good amount of aspergillus niger(FUNGUS) depending on crop
      there good for you , but depending on the source

      if THESE inuit tribes AND hazda HAVE the hidden key in gut make up and disease.. then why not scan there RNA18 for yeast/fungus as well. looking at there DIETs with out guessing there going to be lower in them

      I will note some great benefit with RS — but you also see some with negatives to it.. in some —theres great info on the PLUS of RS on certain bacteria which help us.
      I myself “John” argue the benefit of VLC/keto in role / process of re balancing your gut make up bacteria/yeast as a tool. not necessarily LONG term. to kill lower gut bugs in order to rebalance or start over re seeding — in order for better more beneficial gut bugs to take over from inulin, fiber and RS when you restart you health and healing.

      You take someone very F*cked up with colitis or crohns / arthritis I dont see them healing fast from the start of RS …….been there

      You take an avg person , or person with no problems and Im sure they ll take off with RS, etc

      Many of these GI and arthritis drugs turn off the immune system, causing more problems. One has to take charge of there own health and not rely on the factory process of drugs — as they mask, inflammation etc– you still have heart disease , break down of joints -arthritis , etc you dont feel it —but the gut problem is still there.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 11:00

      “So how important are they?”

      Given that they’ve been evolving for hundreds of million of years longer than us, at a rate on average of six generations per day and that 90% of our cells are they, then intuit for yourself.

      Hit the links to FB posts at this post.


      This one, for instance:


      A well established aspect of the gut microbiome is its close relationship with host immunity, essentially comprising 70% of the immune system.(26) It’s no longer mere speculation that the composition of our gut microbes have a profound effect on the creation, training, maintenance, and actions of our immune system. An imbalance of intestinal microbes can cause an imbalance in our immune system, leading it to attack us instead of the pathogens it’s supposed to eradicate or keep in check. Here’s a partial list of autoimmune conditions that have been linked to disruptions in gut microbes:
      Addison’s Disease
      Ankylosing Spondylitis
      Antiphospholipid Syndrome (APS)
      Autoimmune Hepatitis
      Behcet’s Disease
      Bullous Pemphigoid
      Castleman’s Disease
      Celiac Disease
      Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
      Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Neuropathy (CIDP)
      Churg Strauss Syndrome
      Crohn’s Disease
      Giant Cell Arteritis
      Glomerulonephritis (Autoimmune Kidney Disease)
      Graves’ Disease
      Guillain-Barre Syndrome
      Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis
      Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis
      IgA Nephropathy
      Interstitial Cystitis
      Kawasaki Disease
      Lichen Planus
      Meniere’s Disease
      Mixed Connective Tissue Disease (MCTD)
      Multiple Sclerosis
      Myasthenia Gravis
      Pernicious Anemia
      Polyarteritis Nodosa
      Primary Biliary Cirrhosis
      Raynaud’s Disease
      Reiter’s Syndrome
      Rheumatoid Arthritis
      Scleroderma or CREST Syndrome
      Silicone Immune Toxicity Syndrome
      Sjogren’s Syndrome
      Stiff-Man Syndrome
      Type 1 Diabetes
      Ulcerative Colitis
      Vascular Dementia
      Wegener’s Granulomatosis
      Those with one or more of these autoimmune conditions are likely to have a diet high in modern, industrial Frankenfoods, one lacking in sufficient fibers our gut bugs recognize as food, but most likely both. The immune system keeps the body healthy by providing a fine balance between attacking invaders and maintaining healthy tissues. In autoimmune diseases, this delicate balance fails and the immune system attacks healthy tissue.
      Three of the most common autoimmune conditions are arthritis, diabetes, and irritable bowel disease. These three are positively identified with altered gut microbes and respond favorably to a correction in gut flora. A discussion of each follows.
      26. Wu, Hsin-Jung, and Eric Wu. “The role of gut microbiota in immune homeostasis and autoimmunity.” Gut Microbes 3.1 (2012): 4-14.


      See the video here:



      BTW, the most common catalyst of kicking off C. dificile (most of us have it, it’s just kept in check by other bacteria), an infection that kills 15,000 yearly in the US, is immediately after a round of antibiotics.

      There’s much more, but I have a book to finish.

    • John Myers on August 20, 2014 at 11:19

      If potato starch/RS ends up as butyrate, how is that counter to a keto diet? Is it paleo? No. At least not by Cordain’s definition. Keto people love fat.
      And if you don’t like the word ‘pathways’ how about swapping it for mechanism? You okay with biological mechanisms?

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 12:15

      It doesn’t only end up as butyrate, and plus there are co-feeders.

      Oh, you mean Cordain’s intransigent 2002 definition of Paleo. I see.

      I’m poking fun of the word pathways and how it’s used, like the scientists at the blackboard, full of equations, then the phrase “and then magic happens.”

    • eddie on August 20, 2014 at 12:58

      Not going to argue that frank-in foods have caused the problem…. but I would add many vegans etc get these diseases that dont eat frank-in foods…………or a healthy RS veggie, veggie ,fruit and meat /chicken eaters .

      many with , gluten problems get there fair share of RS, yet there still messed up. and having been thru this Carrying 4 genes HLA DQ2 —I say its the very fact there missing gut bugs( like you say) and eating lots of RS a food source feeding the over growth of yeast. Which appears to be there problem, ( since the HWP1 protein is similar to gluten. ) you have removed the similar problem(gluten) but not the food source of the problem….. as well replaced the bacteria missing which is the problem. The gut liner bacteria and missing bacteria to hammer the yeast
      (There will never be a cure) because you cant get people to eat limited diets in limited phases.
      To raise /lower bacteria and to phase in probiotics/bacteria– there to lazy and want a magic pill. The Future will be a phased treatment , of moving diets to switch /move /replace— bacteria

      I had high HPHPA clostrida markers and yeast– I ate a good diet of no frankin foods from seeing what others in my family went thru and got…. (disease wise) happen to me too–I used them as an example of what not to do.

      I can tell you 99 percent that amoxicillin(2 months from a dental precede) gave me, gluten intolerance( due to my gene make up 4 HLA DQ2 genes) as well milk intolerance because it killed my bacteria akkermansia (gut barrier) stripped away any good bacteria I had….and this drug raised my Cdiff type clostrida bacteria which then ate the RS .My yeast raised …growing to a large number that my immune system could not keep them in check == confusing gluten, soy and milk cassien as yeasts- since there proteins are similar. Eating these foods (which we eat daily in yogurt- potatos etc )milk, starch grains..only fed the Clostrida and yeast—which took me in a tail spin and a never ending circle of doctors and treatments –which they want to give more antibiotics.. to now treat the normal bad things that live in you —YOU NEED. Causing them to become more pathogenic

      I say your DEAD on the frankin foods, and missing gut bugs…… which I say starts from over prescribing from dentists (dental procedures– and child physicians (parents feeding poor food) –and then add in a diet of frank in foods.

      C diff is naturally in you and yes its kept in check… but you can acquire bad versions which are not normal– mainly floating in (CLEAN) hospitals with toxin B etc

      I like the RS but I think its not as simple as giving someone RS to heal them and tossing in the fibers etc… REAL Foods..because I was eating that way–and I got sick as SHIT

      And by NO MEANS an I SAYING go LC/KETO for a regular diet daily long term( this is crazy)

      for me all my reading–I read all sides…..paleo.. genes, LC, FAT, RS — and try to put it all together— there all CORRECT in phases until you get balanced.

      I also find it odd the HADZA and Italian study http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140415/ncomms4654/full/ncomms4654.html

      the HADZA had lower butyrate, but we are so focused on raising it… now Im not sick mine is lower??time will tell I guess if I get cancer, hope not.

      Prevotella abundance seen in the Hadza GM match a presence/absence scenario with SCFA concentrations that are enriched in propionate and reduced in butyrate with respect to Italians.

      Dont get me wrong—–Im still drooling for your book and will buy it to support you $$$$ and what you do…..you do a great part pointing out things
      its just this area is still very open….

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 17:37


      I love you to death and you are absolutely welcome and admonished to share of your knowledge, here, always.

      But in terms of me, I’m not trying to fix broken guts. I’m trying to make several billion aware of the importance of the gut.

    • eddie on August 20, 2014 at 17:51


      you are making millions aware :) and doing a dam good job!!!!, but many are looking at you and your RS to fix them, like the KETO do for Jimmy. Your doing a great justice and really opening doors. I just want to keep enforcing you have to get there or be there… If had several people message me about there problems— I dont hash the RS I just explain its not right for you at this time

      But I do hope you look into yeast/mold of the gut and include a section for your book.. I have nagged you :) – I even sent you a novel message thru facebook the other day

  2. Trish on August 19, 2014 at 17:14

    Richard, thanks for all the great info. I was one of those VLC people you speak of and you have completely changed my mind about my diet. I was VLC for about two years, felt great, lost 70 lbs and was convinced I would eat that way forever. The suddenly I got very cold! Like all the time. I could hardly watch my kids play hockey because of the pain in my feet because of the cold from standing in the arena. Everyone said it was because of the weight loss but I still had about twenty more to go. I started to research and found your site. I eat potatoes, green bananas, PS and never count my carbs anymore. I feel so much better, even emotionally. Thank you! Just curious though, I am still cold and wonder if anyone has any idea how long before this might improve. I have been upping my starch for about four months now. Oh, and i rarely check my sugar now, there really is no need, it’s always good.

    • John on August 19, 2014 at 18:32

      I remember the days of intensely cold hands and feet. I remember using iodine and wine as a quick way to really warm them up at first (kelp tablets, or whatever). Cooking potatoes in coconut oil REALLY worked for me. In fact, coconut oil with pretty much any sort of carb seemed to work.

    • Tinkerer on August 19, 2014 at 19:13

      FWIW, I found mung bean starch to be the most warming food I’ve tried. Commenter Spanish Caravan thought that it might even be TOO warming, though the peak numbers that he and I hit with it (99.4 – 100 F oral temps for about an hour, and then they drop back down again), are OK per Ray Peat, so who knows. Maybe it’s good to hit such temps for brief periods–sort of a hormetic thing. I haven’t seen much research on this, so caveat emptor.

    • Tinkerer on August 19, 2014 at 19:16

      Oral temps are subject to error and I didn’t measure often, so maybe it was also measurement error, though I sure feel warm after consuming it and my overall avg oral and armpit temps are also up. Some months after increasing my RS intake, cooked potatoes also now warm me, even though most carby foods used to make me feel colder, rather than warmer.

    • LaFrite on August 20, 2014 at 01:33

      There’s also the good old trick: have BIG meals with starches and proteins, you feel full, it takes time to digest and you are not tempted to snack. Warmth guarantied :)

    • Trish on August 20, 2014 at 04:26

      I have read about using iodine but was a bit scared to try it because of some said side effects. I will give it a try though. I do cook my potatoes in coconut oil but am also wondering if I just need to up my coconut oil consumption. Guess I will try both and see what happens. Thanks.

    • eddie on August 20, 2014 at 06:17


      Have you ever thought—-that you say””” I was one of those VLC people you speak of and you have completely changed my mind about my diet. I was VLC for about two years, felt great, lost 70″ but then you slowly felt bad–cold hands and feet..

      looking back dont you think by being VLC you used this as a tool –getting rid of or lowing an inbalance of yeast/bacteria. Im sure if you had tracked your self your balance bacteria firmicutes and bacteria bacteroides as well as YEAST would have changed..

      you then jumped into the RS world and your health took off!!!!!!!!!!!! coconut oil is anti fungal http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17651080 you eat your potatos in coconut oil, eating your RS yet not feeding the yeast in you

    • Trish on August 20, 2014 at 14:13

      Yes, I wouldn’t take back the first year and a half for anything. It completely changed my life and got my type 2 diabetes under control. I think though at the time I thought I had to stay eating like that forever, which was okay cause I liked it, but not okay because I wasn’t feeling great anymore. One of the first things I noticed going low carb was a settling in my stomach. Other than a bit of gas when starting the RS, the settled feeling has remained.
      What are your thoughts on upping the coconut oil? I still have those twenty pounds to lose. Everything just kind of stalled after the seventy pounds!

    • eddie on August 21, 2014 at 07:59

      I am similar my family has a long line of type 2 or crohns… if you dig deep they are simular in the fact people regulate starch they feel better and change

      I did LC for a long period and will say it changed me for the better….–but theres no way you could eat that way forever. Its a tool and you sound like you have used it to your advantage as I did ..
      Many will are that coconut oil is or isnt antimicrobial. same with caprylic acid – a medium chain triglyceride — try adding it inside of more coconut oil. When you jump the fence many feel diabetes etc are fungus/yeast related. Looking at my families past and what happen to me– it was in my personal case. Your LC most likely lowered your yeast– but also killed off good bacteria. You may have shifted your balance back toward bacteria— and your good are enjoying your RS.. Read up on caprylic acid , and your coconut oil it may surprise you (yeast)

    • Duck Dodgers on August 21, 2014 at 10:57


      I’ve come to believe that the only way to keep yeast/candida at bay is by simply putting your colon into the correct pH (6.1 to 6.8 for fecal matter). Not too acidic and not neutral or alkaline — as the research clearly shows:

      Alkalinity promotes Candida overgrowth

      The problem with any other “tool” — whether it be a LC starvation protocol, or various supplements and anti-fungals — is that candida can adapt over time. Starve your body of exogenous glucose and candida can slowly adapt to using ketones for fuel (as they have mitochondria). Perhaps it didn’t happen to you because your pH was too low (as you’ve said) and your candida probably wasn’t hyphal. Most people have alkaline guts from lack of fiber, and LC diets don’t fix that.

      The candida growth gene is really just like a light switch controlled by pH. You can throw acids down your gullet, or you can just make your gut bugs create the acids for you (or do both).

      You already know this already, but why not just tell people to normalize their gut pH rather than assuming they need a LC diet?

    • eddie on August 21, 2014 at 11:14


      You Have a great point.!!!!… I think , LC starved my yeast, and gut bacteria…..pretty good —taking the anti fungals / supplements really hammered at it. *** but un like most–I focused on getting that fiber and inulin (high while dropping alot of the carbs)to jump start my bacteria– along with loads of different types of bifido and lactco which to this day I feel stay high/middle in my tract .

      I think the candida gene—- is HLA DQ2 (gluten genes and it is a light switch which turns on from yeast… As I have turned off the switch—able to eat gluten /beer or ice cream.. ( i dont do it alot…( i think the LC is just a complete tear down) For those whos gut bugs are really messed up and mine were
      CLOSTRIDIA & YEAST — changing that PH is now easy task with foods

      Your wording is PERFECT!!!! controlled PH or your gut bugs create the acids– the problem I dont think your going to swing that PH with out trashing your BIOME and changing your foods for a period or cycle.. to get that extra–kill. Too long like you say they will adapt — to food alone or acids

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 04:21


      I have read those studies some in the past and those are some great links.. and look over some last night
      my HLA DQ2 is 2.5 plus two more genes not connecting Alpha and beta

      I understand the PH up and down etc for candida or yeasts to change form I have read alot into this. I would invite you to investigate more in the relationship of HWp1 proteins and yeast as well soy and cassien (milk)
      Im sure the up and down of ph will help in the changing of pathogenic yeast to normal form as well — help kill /lower it. Plus the fact some bacteria block or hammer it.
      What I have said is LC could help starve it– while you take supplements .It could very well be in this process your changing the PH greatly
      and Im sure it is…One your removing foods and two your taking oils and acids.

      If your immune system is a train wreck — the very proteins of foods , like HWP1 , soy and milk resemble yeast– so your immune system confused for a lack of words believes these foods to be yeast. For me — and maybe its just me, form whats happen to me and my slow process of removing foods and slowly adding them– and doing all my quack tests. Documenting every little detail. As these foods were removed — my sinus , hemorrhoids, joint pain and headaches disappeared. My GI inflammation in one test went from 1310 to 97 over a year NOrmal is below500 . Since building back all my BACTERIA , my food issue is gone- with milk and gluten. DO I dare eat it every day again your standard American sandwich etc. No , I ve chosen a path a path with out it. Due to my genes and what ive read and learned fungus etc being loaded on the crops due to silo storage , I know yeast/mold/fungus in antibiotics can activate my immune system.. I saw this happen with amoxicillin ( look up the ingredients ) I have many examples — I still harp on bacteria akkermansia . To me this bacteria plays some sort of role in Zonulin Ive started chatting with –Eileen Laird http://www.phoenixhelix.com/ who has intolerance to starch , grain , milk etc like I did.

      she has been testing many things like RS– and gets pain with in days..she is slowly rebuilding herself. Her husband is fine and she isnt — she has no akkermansia and finds this interesting in her personal testing,

      I have an example of my son at 4 months or so –when he got the HEPB vaccine with in a week he broke out with sores all over his skin , rear was inflamed — the ingredients YEAST protein. my sone will get half my genes and half my wifes…i dont know hers

    • Duck Dodgers on August 21, 2014 at 20:04

      I think the candida gene—- is HLA DQ2 (gluten genes and it is a light switch which turns on from yeast… As I have turned off the switch—able to eat gluten /beer or ice cream..

      Not according to the literature I just pointed you to. Sounds like you never took the time to read the studies in that alkalinity link. This is important stuff, Eddie. You ought to know this if you’re going to keep talking about yeast all the time.

      It’s not a human gene that turns candida’s hyphal form off. So, gluten has nothing to do with the pH sensing. Candida has its own pH-sensing genes.

      From: RIM101-dependent and-independent pathways govern pH responses in Candida albicans.

      We identified C. albicans RIM101, RIM20, and RIM8 based on their homology to components of the one known fungal pH response pathway


      From: PHR2 of Candida albicans encodes a functional homolog of the pH-regulated gene PHR1 with an inverted pattern of pH-dependent expression

      Deletion of PHR1, a pH-regulated gene of Candida albicans, results in pH-conditional defects in growth, morphogenesis, and virulence evident at neutral to alkaline pH but absent at acidic pH. Consequently, we searched for a functional homolog of PHR1 active at low pH. This resulted in the isolation of a second pH-regulated gene, designated PHR2. The expression of PHR2 was inversely related to that of PHR1, being repressed at pH values above 6 and progressively induced at more acidic pH values

      And there were about a dozen studies that echoed those findings from that link.

      Sooo… PHR1 is one of its light switches for switching on hyphal candida in alkaline guts. And PHR2 seems to be a light switch for switching on hyphal candida in guts that are too acidic (as yours was). The key is to normalize your gut pH and get your gut bugs to make the SCFAs and metabolites that knock it out.

      You were a special case, eddie. Your gut was too acidic (maybe why highly-fermentable RS didn’t help?), and your gut likely switched on PHR2 (and perhaps other undiscovered genes) for hyphal growth. Whereas most low carbers have a gut that is too alkaline and the alkalinity switches on the PHR1, RIM101, RIM20, and RIM8 genes for hyphal growth.

      The key point here is that when pH is normalized, candida isn’t really a threat. It’s just a benign friend that lives symbiotically with us (helps with detoxification from what I understand). If your gut pH is abnormal, it causes all sorts of trouble.

      I seriously doubt that candida is ever totally “starved” to the point of eradication. More likely it just hunkers down under a biofilm and waits to plan its next move. Whereas normalizing gut pH literally switches it’s hyphal form off and leaves it benign and vulnerable to other attacks (biofilm disruptors, enzymes/digesters, etc).

      So, if I had to choose a “tool” to fight a candida infection, I would choose pH modulation every time. Just flick off the darn switch by normalizing your gut, and hit it with some biofilm disruptors and digesters to crowd it out!

    • Gemma on August 22, 2014 at 00:48

      @Duck Dodgers

      “More likely it just hunkers down under a biofilm and waits to plan its next move.”

      Duck, I just can’t stop laughing now.

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 05:57

      What I have said is LC could help starve it– while you take supplements .It could very well be in this process your changing the PH greatly and Im sure it is…One your removing foods and two your taking oils and acids

      It’s just one approach. While safe starches route is another approach that increases acid fermentation and maintains the biome. Two different tools for two different people. If your gut is too acidic (as yours was) it makes sense to make your gut more alkaline, so that PHR2 is switched off.

      For most people, switching to a LC diet will make them more alkaline — particularly if they don’t eat huge buckets of fiber every day. If they were already close to neutral (as most people are) going LC will lower fermentation, alkalinity will rise and PHR1, RIM101, RIM20, and RIM8 will switch on candida’s hyphal growth.

      So, you can’t just go around telling everyone to go on a VLC starvation protocol and assume it will work for everyone. It’s not that simple. Again, the reason it probably worked for you is because you were too acidic to begin with and you needed more alkalinity. You were an extreme situation and most people need more acids, not less.

      For most people the glucose from safe starches tend to be absorbed into the bloodstream before candida can reach most of it. Heck, you could probably chew your potatoes to oblivion and the glucose would be absorbed sublingually before candida in the gut could ever touch it. For “average” people, the glycemic starches are usually quickly absorbed before candida gets to it and fermentation normalizes gut pH while maintaining the biome. It’s a much safer and easier approach.

      Remember, a gut that is too acidic (as yours was) is not the norm. It’s the exception. Let’s not make the mistake that your successful acid-lowering approach will work for everyone.

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 07:32

      Im not telling everyone to do LC but I find it odd many have done this and then moved on to here RS and had great success…. my case maybe odd

      You are great at research and finding reports studies etc please look up hwp1 soy and cassin and report back what you find on these proteins.

      I argue my case as its not as simple as changing the phlook at the recent stufff coming in a person gets bit by a tick gets lyme disease and becomes allergic to red meat. Look at the proteins and sugars here

      The immune system has a response do to it being simular to the bacteria from the tick bite

      My case in point to yeast and food proteins ..untill foods are removed problem fixed the immune system will not down regulate and turn off that switch

      As well getting to the real problem
      You can change the ph all you want but until the immune system rests repairs ..its not going to change anything

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 07:43


      We get it. Some people need to do starvation protocols. Certainly not everyone. And they aren’t risk free.

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 07:52

      Your not getting it.. its not starvation its simlar proteins and sugar report back what you find on hwp1 etc on top of ph…lost off tract immune system

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 07:54

      “Im not telling everyone to do LC but I find it odd many have done this and then moved on to here RS and had great success”

      And I would point out that there are plenty of anecdotes of people’s fungal infections getting worse by going VLC (as mine did). VLC promotes fungal infections when fermentation is low.

    • DuckDodgers on August 22, 2014 at 08:12

      “Your not getting it.. its not starvation its simlar proteins and sugar report back what you find on hwp1 etc on top of ph…lost off tract immune system”

      Yes, if your immune system is a “wreck” (likely from a leaky gut) you need to avoid foods that confuse your immune system and cause antibodies and toxins to enter your bloodstream through a leaky gut. We know this already. Easiest way to do that is with a 30 day (LC) whole foods elimination diet and slowly reintroduce potentially offending foods to determine what the problems are. It doesn’t require all the unproven quack testing which basically just shows what antibodies are leaking through your gut and into your bloodstream at any given moment. Your body can tell you through a simple elimination diet.

    • Bruno on August 22, 2014 at 08:27

      Hi Duck and Eddie – I’ve been following along for some time.

      I have to bring up that just as no diet is perfect for everyone, so do we have individual variations that make us unique.

      Some may produce insufficient gastric acid making the small intestine more alkaline and prone to SIBO. Also, there are genetic variations in secretion of endogenous fucose, also resulting in a completely different intestinal environment.

      Some people require acid replacements and zinc therapy to combat overgrowths from acid deficiency.

      Also over- or under-production of bile can make a drastic difference in the gut environment.

      We have genetic differences, physical differences, and dietary choices that dictate the pH of the intestine. For people who have been battling poor digestion for a long time, it will be harder to get to the root of the problem, and things may get worse before they get better.

      Biofilms a big confounder in this, as well. I agree that keeping the pH as stable as possible by feeding RS and other prebiotics is the first step in a long-term solution.

    • Bruno on August 22, 2014 at 08:31

      Gemma – Yeast is more powerful and intelligent than you give credit! Have you ever read anything about yeast? I suggest you read a bit before you laugh at this suggestion.

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 10:06

      “Gemma – Yeast is more powerful and intelligent than you give credit! Have you ever read anything about yeast? I suggest you read a bit before you laugh at this suggestion.”


      I assure you that Gemma could run laps around all of us combined when it comes to researching yeasts and other health/scientific matters. There are few people with her vast level of knowledge and research habits and I’m consistently blown away by the data and hypotheses that she uncovers nearly every day.

      Gemma was laughing because I actually borrowed the phrase and suggestion from her. She has often phrased it that way.

      But let’s be serious for a moment. Yeasts don’t actually have free will. They can’t willfully be sneaky or “plan” like a scheming villain. I only like to use that sort of phraseology because they have a fairly intelligent (though relatively simple) software program that has very sneaky rules embedded in it that happen to be good at hacking our bodies.

      Gemma and I sort of joke about it because we both know that the real serious scientists don’t believe that yeasts are secretly plotting against us. It just seems like there are. And if they were, yeasts would just be hyphal all the time!

    • Bruno on August 22, 2014 at 10:30

      OK, sorry to Gemma – I have seen a few of her comments. Yeast scares me, it has so many forms and wants to take over at the slightest invitation (figuratively speaking, of course). There is even a form of yeast with no cell walls that behaves like nothing else.

    • Gemma on August 22, 2014 at 10:38


      If you are afraid of something, kill it, cook it and eat it!


      Do you like to eat mushrooms? They are beneficial!

    • Bruno on August 22, 2014 at 10:57

      Oh, Hi, Gemma – I will take your advice! I love mushrooms. Mushrooms probably help us regulate pH to some extent, did you know that candida lives symbiotically at a normal pH and becomes hyphal at abnormal pHs. And why E. Coli produces vitamins at a normal gut pH but becomes “pathogenic” at an abnormal pH?

      Not everyone knows how important pH is!

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 11:00

      Again, Bruno. Gemma is well aware. We’ve both discussed it many times. Leave her be!

      I suspect that invasive fungi really aren’t plotting against us. If fungi, yeasts and bacteria rose up as Earth’s recyclers (creating/maintaining soils, forests and life), this implies that they are drones waiting for a signal of when it’s time to recycle a dead animal.

      If we were to evolve a simple microorganism that could live inside every animal and wait for its death, we would want it to have sensors for detecting death. I suspect that a pH shift in the gut would be a pretty good indicator (perhaps there are others). If pH becomes too alkaline or too acidic, this implies that the host is not well and my guess is that the entire biome would need to detect this so the gut bugs knew when it was time to decompose the body. This would explain things like why candida lives symbiotically at a normal pH and becomes hyphal at abnormal pHs. And, yes, why E. Coli produces vitamins at a normal gut pH but becomes “pathogenic” at an abnormal pH.

      These fungi and pathogens probably have a larger purpose in our environment. I don’t think their embedded software program is sinister per se as many of these organisms probably evolved before animals even showed up.

      But Gemma knows all this. In fact, I learned a lot of it from her!

    • Gemma on August 22, 2014 at 11:17


      Oh, no need to be so mean at Bruno. Be a bit nice next time, please!

      It is all right people get interested in fungi, they are part of the microbiome too.


      Do not get discouraged, please. Just tell me MORE about my favourite subject.

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 12:53

      Gemma Bruno & Duck

      Im not trying to fight with you guys , Im trying to bring to the light that many other food proteins /sugars resemble bacteria or yeast. This is the other 1/3 of the problem. Once the immune system has been socked under the chin. You can toss the fibers foods (RS)etc raise and lower the PH . But if your getting in foods that resemble –your problem then youll be stuck in a circle. You may have raised or lowered the PH but the foods your eating — continue the problem with the immune system continuing the battle

      From my personal testing — look at vitamins, almost all Vitd3 has soy, many probiotics milk and other stuff, others grain, milk, nuts soy starch what ever your fancy.

      So you have a problem, as duck says remove that food— you may not even know that food is doing something. (standard IGE allergy testing is only for an instant allergy) Your doc says take vitamins b12 etc vit D and so on. But your making yourself sick because your taking vitamins that A help but B continue the problem. When my stomach crashed they said eat toast, light foods apple sauce , crackers yogurt. ( almost laughable ) I read and learned the value of making your own yogurt (SCD) which removes all lactose — I did this felt fine eating. But my quack testing… and some normal panels GI docs use IBD or IBD expanded showed high numbers. Many of these tests are called BS and quack because –back to the top- food proteins /sugars can resemble bacteria or yeast. Why I say a limited diet in phases can -pin point things,.( I personally saw this in my self. The problem people are to LAZY to eat certain foods or limit them-self in type for periods of time.

      There are many docs that look at and believe in the other factor yeast and bacteria -one example William Shaw, Ph.D. he worked at the center for disease control. you ll find that any doc that brings up the word yeast( its like a GUN shot to the head) for there career) search and you will see. FDA didnt take kindly to Shaw so he left. He voiced his opinion which big pharm didnt like.

      I have read all the studies — reports etc , PH up PH down ….this is right this is wrong…but you see everyone still has problems . Why we are all chatting in a window on the internet :) if what they said was right– which we realize alot of it is wrong at times or later.

      For me, I have a unique situation, I have a full family history of both sides and medical from the bad side. Starting with my great grand father( the problem) A large Italian side all had many kids. Those kids had many kids and so on. You can see and track crohns and type 2 down the line. As many got these- they got added arthritis- then osteoporosis and then heart disease- many had added stomach problems some minor. I jumped into the CLUB at 38.( today im no longer a member)

      Studies are great– but until you live thru the nightmare- go thru the effects its a little different. I had the stomach issues- then half of my hip /ass cut open for a deep fistula…I was told all the BS— tossed antibiotics like I was a dart board , the doc with a blind fold. I d be happy to share all my medical stuff– everytime nothing… As well I watched the people around fall off the wagon. Studies are great– all that advice, my family has gotten , has gotten them 6 feet under. What I can tell you from my history- my (PLAYING around) documenting , testing etc. I carry genes for type 2 and gluten problems.. (several) I maybe an odd bird –as ive been called. To me these two are similar crohns and type 2 when you look under the scope- and watch the genes or symptoms travel down my family.. For me I personally feel they are the cause. depending on how many gluten genes you carry and the environment impact of -yeasts- medicines , eating of trash foods that feed them–HIGH sugar. Ive been to the GI , the ENT’s etc many times in my life and heard all the BS.. and this and that. The answer antibiotics

      Until I investigated, I call played around – I have turned all the switches off. I like people to be aware of fungus & BACTERIA because they both play a role -if you want to believe it or not. I live 20 mins from Johns hopkins and 30 min from NIH. the top gluten doc use to be in Maryland and has now moved on to MA. ( I planned to seek him out at the 3 to 4 year mark) Hopkins and NIH are looking for families that have these GI issues. One so they can compare families genes. At some point , I personally will be a pin cushion there — my goal is to meet some REAL docs so they can actually see now and L@@K , listen and extract what ever they want to see why , im now healthy— I already know, for my case- I want to see them say it to my face. ( Im sure it will be why are you here your fine)

      My side maybe more gluten, and yeast – and at some point I may take amoxicillin and make my self sick to prove a point( like the McDonald s documentary ) But I know what I have done (my data), can help some one in science getting the right person.

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 12:57

      as well– If I could post a PIC
      on here or send it to you – Id love to show off what fell out of my EAR this past year…

      A BIO FILM — which came out after taking multiple things to hammer yeast

      I had just gone to the ENT who said I look fine- we can try a cat scan –said how about some antibiotics

      I showed my GP and he was like wow and said he had seen something like this before.

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 16:07


      I believe you. I just don’t think everyone has had their “immune system…socked under the chin.” You’re talking about your own extreme case as an example. But you can’t just apply that extreme case to everyone. Most people just have more basic issues that are solved with a few dietary changes. No need to overcomplicate things for everyone.

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 17:17

      “Id love to show off what fell out of my EAR this past year…A BIO FILM”

      Thanks, I’ll pass. And if that’s not an extreme case, I don’t know what is! :)

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 18:05

      Yeah no problem

      But I will say my stomach functioned perfectly
      Zero issue except for bad hemorrhoids all my life why I always was sent for colonoscopy
      Learn from my story know your genes..know your antibiotics
      Because that sucker punch can come anytime from taking antibiotics if you dont know what your taking or know your body normal one day not the next

      Docs dont have all the answers and in the GI world actually make things worse most of the time

      After going from 182 pds to 132
      I woke up and learned the value of probiotics ..bacteria foods inulin fiber and RS

      Listen to these people duck..richard gemma your gut will be in a good place :)

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 18:09

      But the ENT checked me :) and said I was good!!!
      Also suggested an antibiotic — I will only assume would have made more bio flim :)

    • Bruno on August 22, 2014 at 18:52

      Eddie – You da man! Keep talking, somebody will listen. There are not many people who recover from severely dysbiotic guts. Most doctors will do a little, but not enough. most people will try a few things, but not enough.

      I love RS for most people who aren’t compromised, just like I like Vit D for almost everyone. We can test our Vit D levels and dose accordingly, but it’s not so easy to test our guts.

      Here seems to be the typical scenario, is it what happened to you, Eddie? : a guy goes to the doctor, not feeling well…gets antibiotics and a couple follow-ons. Doesn’t get better, may get worse. Then maybe a test of his guts is ordered, but it is a lame test and maybe mis-read by the doctor. More antibiotics or some other pharmaceuticals. Maybe some probiotics. This person finds no relief, so instead finds a way to eat that lets the symptoms ease, maybe this involves PPI drugs.

      So tell me, were you actually diagnosed with a yeast overgrowth or did you figure it out yourself? What first led you to believe you had a problem?

    • Duck Dodgers on August 22, 2014 at 18:55

      A brilliant explanation of the problems with VLC when combating candida:

      From: How to eliminate Candida & biofilms

      It is the conventional belief out there that to get rid of candida one must consume little to no carbs in order to stop their growth. This logically means putting the body into ketosis. What most people don’t know however is that ketones can also fuel candida growth and the fungi themselves use ketones to evade the bodies immune system. The following is the collection of a few days research that completely shifts the conventional paradigm on the various forms of Candida diet out there.

      The following 1st paper shows that the ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate will feed candida, and the 2nd shows that the ketone Aceoacetate is used by Candida to evade the body’s immune system. The 3rd shows that starvation makes candida grow exponentially.

      “The ability to neutrophils from diabetics to kill candida was inhibited by increased concentrations of glucose and beta-hydroxybutyrate, both independently and in combination.
      These data indicate that although phagocytosis occurs at similar levels in diabetics and controls, killing of candida by the diabetic neutrophil is impaired under conditions of hyperglycaemia and ketosis.”

      “Therefore, prolonged ketosis may be a significant risk factor for candidiasis. This study was undertaken to investigate whether C. albicans itself produces a ketotic metabolite as a virulence factor which can effectively undermine host defense by neutrophils.” (source)

      Starvation of yeast cells induces exponentially grown cells (and usually non-germinative) to germinate. This phenomenon is also observed in cells that are transiently treated with metabolic inhibitors. During each of these treatments (starvation, metabolic inhibition), expression of a growth regulatory gene (CGRI) increases. Candida albicans: adherence, signaling and virulence.” Calderone et al. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11204138

      Glucose obviously feeds candida as well however I have not seen evidence that it impairs immunity against candida such as ketones. Glucose therefore appears to be the lesser of two evils in this case when compared to ketones. From a blood point of view it’s impossible to eliminate glucose anyways. Ketogenic diets and many Paleo diets therefore in the long term are counter-productive. Starch and specifically resistant starch is necessary to feed the good guys which are your primary defense against candida.

      It should be obvious that nutrient starvation is not an ideal approach to killing candida.

      I really do suspect candida and yeasts need to abide by these marching orders so that they can properly decompose and recycle its host when the host dies. Upon death, all food would stop (i.e. starvation) and pH would become abnormal. This would be a perfect signal for candida to become hyphal and begin eating its own host.

      Fungi have two roles in nature. They offer potent medicines and they are natures most powerful recyclers! Their roles existed on this planet well before vascular plants and animals even existed.

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 20:22

      It all started after little over a month and half of amoxicillin. . For a dental inplant /crown. From here it all slowly started and got wise

      My stomach slowly got bad..my regular food started to bug me …I couldnt eat a sandwich anything with milk …my nose would bleed random ly… my life long hemmroids got worse… then ulcer in the gut
      The hemorrhoids turned to a fistula.

      I knew other family members had issues and began to question everyone..I found every person embarassed . My gi ran tests..all the parisite tests bacteria …etc did find anything ..ran ibd panel..nothing ran celiac panel nothing.. he ran a hla dq disease association test came back positive he also ran the ibd expanded panel came back high AMCA AND ALCA. TISSUE Tissue samples came back irregular for biopsy. I was tossed zysozin flaygal and another I cant think of right now. I began to what I csay die…I quickly dropped to 132 pds my skin looked like I was 90 on my hands..I have photos. I finally to them no more…and left. I began to break down all my tests ..and searched for better labs and alternate testing. Since I had hla diease association I genetic tested hla dq ..coming back with several genesi then researched my alca and amca breaking out all foods and bacteria s and yeasts. I used great plains lab oat test and compstool. I had high yeast markers and clostrida ..I used american gut. I used alot of there things ..at the sametime I had and endoscopy I was told crohns and ulcer colitis and drugs for the rest of my life……I said thanks but no thanks and began my journey..I wont go in detail all the stuff I did..I used and food etc
      But I did raise my vid3 first from 21 to 55 from a soy free source ..I also used probiotics renew life 50 billion as well at times and still do mixing various different strains. But ones free of milk soy and starch because out of no where I became intolerant to all of them.

      I will say im been now slowly adding starch from plantain chips had some baked potato and no problems.. I can now eat pizza or drink beer again

      But what I do is pop a probiotic an extra that night if I do…..my stomach is now better then ever and better then friends who had no disease

      Sorry for any type os in cell phone

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 20:39

      From all my data I treated for yeast
      Foods …supplements etc ..took in bacteria to block eat.hammer them.. keyed in on sinus as I believe you re infect your self from nasal drip.

      1 year in my seasonal allergies left..no more hemmroids gluten intolerance disappears ..milk and the last im working on 2.5 years in starch and I think this is almost fully licked

      No more weather changing migraines …and I no longer snore. Lost some of my gray hair back to brown…sleep well no alarm clock for 1.5 years

      I medical tape my lips closed hahah which forces me to continue to now breathe thru my nose not mouth at night…..causingfor me no mucus

    • eddie on August 22, 2014 at 20:42

      As well every couple months some strange thing will happen and my health becomes better and better
      Currently I playing with a bacteria to see the effects on will it be my total ldl cholesterol or total ldl particles…. this eats / lowers bile salts

    • Gemma on August 23, 2014 at 01:34


      We all love your comments and your story, including your temperamento. Please go on posting you experience.

      Just a quick question: during your anti- candida and UC healing quest, have you included much mushrooms into your diet? And if, with what effects?

    • eddie on August 23, 2014 at 08:15

      Worked for me…..but I also took large doses of lacto 10 strains and 5 bifido strains while doing it

      You wont find many good studies on probiotics while doing this because big pharma makes no money

      Now post the other KEY Here…removel of simlar foods proteins/sugars hwp1 cassin and soy ..you may have forgot to look and post this

      As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and checked actually had fugal over growth and died die to the cancer drugs

      Its proven that the cancer treatment usually people rise in fungus overgrowth. Many who take to many antibiotics get cancer ……and blood cancer

      Please report back what you find on on hwp1 cassin and soy your missing my key point …remove food lc was only 1/4 of what it did

    • Tinkerer on August 23, 2014 at 10:55

      Dog Dodgers wrote: “so that they can properly decompose and recycle its host when the host dies. Upon death, all food would stop (i.e. starvation) and pH would become abnormal. This would be a perfect signal for candida to become hyphal and begin eating its own host.”


    • eddie on August 23, 2014 at 14:19


      I have not used mushrooms as I have followed advice what doug kauffmann says on them

      They have some great things in them. I have choosen to remove all types of yeast foods and foods with simulalooking proteins / sugars as if found for my self a relation ship in turning on my hla dq2 genes

      I ve had all these foods out of my diet for 2.5 years and now have slowly began putting them back. My latest has been trying to get starch other then nuts in ..
      I use to eat mushrooms .my wife is lithuanian every year we would see the family we would stroll in the woods picking wild mushrooms . The best ive ever had in my life…I miss them.. picking with them was funny any thing I would look at id say how about this one they would say eat that you will die

      I hope to add them in next summer

    • Duck Dodgers on August 24, 2014 at 10:38

      “I have not used mushrooms as I have followed advice what doug kauffmann says on them”

      Doug Kaufmann has mycophobia (fear of mushrooms). Medicinal mushrooms have anti-fungal compounds in them. For instance, you can make an aqueous extract (i.e. a tea) of Reishi mushrooms — one of the world’s most well-studied medicinal mushrooms — and the tea can will have anti-fungal compounds in it. People in China have known this for thousands of years.

      Here someone decided to make a mushroom toothpaste to kill candida.

      From: Antifungal activity of a toothpaste containing Ganoderma lucidum against Candida albicans – an in vitro study

      Candida albicans is the most common oral fungus associated with oral candidial infections. Various antifungal agents are in use and the search is on for more agents showing anti candidial properties. Ganoderma lucidum has been in use in Traditional Chinese Medicine for years. Literature supports the use of this Ganoderma lucidum as a medicinal mushroom for its antimicrobial, antiviral properties…The activity of a Ganoderma containing toothpaste against Candida albicans…The toothpaste exhibited antifungal properties against the tested organism.

      From: A Review on Antifungal Activity of Mushroom (Basidiomycetes) Extracts and Isolated Compounds

      As far as we know, 52 species were reported as having antifungal activity (Table 1); most of them are edible mushrooms (44 referenced from among 52 species)…Most of the mushrooms that exhibit revealed antifungal activity are wild, allowing a higher diversity among the studied species…Oudemansiella canarii and Agaricus bosporus methanolic extracts proved to be the best ones agains Candida sp.. Regarding mushroom compounds, grifolin (2) isolated from Albatrellus dispansus seemed to be the best option against phytopathogenic fungi.

      Kaufmann is an alarmist. There are a wide range of mushroom extracts/teas that can fight fungal infections.

    • Gemma on August 24, 2014 at 13:18

      Or here:

      The Pharmacological Potential of Mushrooms

      “This review describes pharmacologically active compounds from mushrooms. Compounds and complex substances with antimicrobial, antiviral, antitumor, antiallergic, immunomodulating, anti-inflammatory, antiatherogenic, hypoglycemic, hepatoprotective and central activities are covered, focusing on the review of recent literature. The production of mushrooms or mushroom compounds is discussed briefly.”

    • eddie on August 24, 2014 at 15:44


      I feel like your a cowboy gun slinger posting gun shots at me hahahaha. Its ok because I got rhe same thing when I was. There are good mold and good yeasts that have medicadal valve I have not argued any fact that many things help candida etc
      Raising lowering ph …food can killhelp or hurt.

      You are quick and fast at the trigger to find and post treatments on these. But what you do see is almost all gluten ..candida suffers dont get any better as well many colitis and crohns people

      I not saying everyone has a leaky gut
      What I ve said – and what im seeing in my case by documenting and testing. Simular food proteins/sugars appear to be relavent.

      Every day people join the club getting crohns colitis and celiac ..maybe age 5..or 25 maybe 45. Many who were perfectly healthy. And not considered extreme cases to you

      What im saying and still trying to point out is you can treat with all your studies info etc ..but you see people are sick and not getting better

      Im seeing foods with simular proteins and sugars play a role in your treatments your finding. We know doc dont relie on diet for treatment.

      If you know you have many gluten genes for exampleand the foods proteins and simular to other foods or medicine ..dont you think you woulwould have a problem with them.

      I point recently as an example again lyme diease
      .They dont have a leaking gut but now the sugar from the bacteria they have resembles red meat they eat….and now there allergic to red meat

      We see now an up tick of more people yearly of gut problems . Please report back what you find on bacteria or yeast and simular food proteins

      Use yeast…hwp1 soy and milk
      Or lyme and red meat
      Or pick your own ans report back what you
      Find.. ive read and understand all the treatments
      You have pointed to chris kessler..have has some great info and stuff.. im pointing somethings about doug kauffmann. Some of his argument is if you have a proble with say yeast simular foods could also be a problem. Ive seen this personally

      Again im sure today if I walk into a new GI s office I would be considered normal and non diease

    • Duck Dodgers on August 24, 2014 at 17:44


      You keep telling me to “report back”. What am I supposed to be reporting back about?

      If I search for “yeast hwp1 soy and milk” the first hit is you talking here, on this very post, here on FTA.

      People with Lyme get severe leaky guts — perhaps from all the antibiotics they take. Undigested proteins—that would ordinarily be digested in a healthy person—slip through the leaky gut and into the bloodstream, causing an immune response.

      What’s your point? Everything you’re talking about seems to just be related to leaky gut issues.

    • eddie on August 24, 2014 at 18:44


      I suggest you search gluten and hwp1 ..this has nothing to do with leaky gut ..

      Then start searching the relation of cassin to yeast and as well soy to yeast. You point to all these treatments and studies . You realize if you asked your local GI about leaky gut or said you had this they would laugh at you. As they dont buy Into this

      Have you also look at the sugar and relation to red meat and lyme there is alot of new stuff here .

      I hit a cement wall with my gi when I was sick I was told meds for the rest of my life. I choose to pass..so far ive made the right choice. I heard it all from my gi everything you say. Now they scratch there head.

      Is it impossible to belive that your immune system can confuse simlar foods??? Or a medicine like amoxicillin which is simular. Not having a so called leaky gut?? If your immune system is ramped up and you say now have a gluten problem and yeast is simular you dont think you would have a problem??

      Excluding yeast……if the bacteria your over ran with…and you eat something simlar protein/sugar wise dont you think you could respond

      This is allim trying to point out.
      Removing a factor of you say leaky gut..I believe in this term myself even thou I was laughed in my face personally asking about it. If you eat say gluten and that protein hwp1 looks like yeast it could be possiblewhen you eat yeast foods or gluten you could have the same response. This is what I found with myself Playing around.

      Im just pointing out we will exclude yeast and say any bacteria.. the same could be true .

      Just why I personally feel some fail in treatment
      To me and its just an opinion treat needs to go further in just killing lowering /raising bacteria ..as well fixing raising and lowering ph
      For me I belive this has been a key factor

      Sorry for my types the phone web page is terrible..im on a cell phone. And I will say this weekend I have been at the beach..ive enjoyed 5 beers ..ice cream with my son and had an amazing bacon potato salad..and other starch ..had my large RS dump..haha and things have been a -ok

      You still post some amazing links – I give you lots of credit an amazing dude. Id be amazed to sit and hash back and forth over coffee :)

    • Duck Dodgers on August 24, 2014 at 20:03

      Eddie says: I suggest you search gluten and hwp1 ..this has nothing to do with leaky gut ..

      Sorry, Eddie. But it has everything do with leaky gut. Intestinal permeability (i.e. leaky gut) is triggered by Zonulin. Zonulin is triggered by HWP-1 (found in both gluten and candida). How do you not see that connection?

      As the gut becomes more permeable (i.e. “leaky”) undigested food particles slip into the bloodstream and the body mounts immune responses to those food particles that are normally supposed to stay in the gut.

    • eddie on August 25, 2014 at 04:06

      You realize zonulin is his theroy abd what he is working on. So now I have finally beliveing in ywast as a cause…to health problems

      You just now said yeast COULD be a serious problem where before you didnt.

      By wording my response I finally got you to peek in
      So if your saying hwp1 which is the protein in gluten looks like yeast ..and yeast can be a problem

      Two other proteins are simular soy and milk
      So you now see my point..these people never get better ..if they have yeast the starch feeds the yeast

      Now take amoxicillin your adding yeas/mold to the system. So if you have a problem you just added or gave somone a problem. The hep b vaccine for kids a 4 to 6 months is high in yeast proteins

      Im trying to open peoples eyes
      Because. .I personally feel these facters are why we are seeing an increase in children adults with gluten allergies ….gut problems crohns and celiac

      Then when your sick bacteria leaks in and they give multi rounds or different antibiotics making the problem worse as bad gut pathogens increase and good decrease. As you guys point out

      And the use of inulin RS and fibers help bring back good bacteria etc with probiotics. But my point most avg foods have soy lectin or milk in them
      As well gluten. ..the avg arerican diet

      Where I think this fits into avg people.
      Depending on your genes and how much yeast and simular food preoteins/sugars you eat and simular antiboitics /vaccine gets you create a problem …which we see increasing daily…with the us and briten leading

    • eddie on August 25, 2014 at 05:08

      If your an adult and you have a kid
      If you want to atend a US school you have to pretty much get every vaccine

      If your an adult and a medicine harms you ..you can sue to recover damage

      If you have a child get a vaccine and it damages your child your on your own..as the big pharm company cant be sued. Some of the very vaccines which no one will admit can also contribute to the issue.
      No no vaccine weirdo my kid had them all

      But we delt with issues after one.
      Many things are cookie cutter ….as we see
      Genes are playing a larger role
      Why we have people on here talking and speaking of
      Genes for eating starch and fat

      My goal duck and yes I know gluten can cause leaky gut was for you to look at zonulin ..and food proteins /sugars as well seeing how simular foods can resemble your problem

      Bacteria or yeast another part of the mystery

    • Duck Dodgers on August 25, 2014 at 08:18

      “You just now said yeast COULD be a serious problem where before you didn’t.”


      You probably just misunderstand me. My point is that yeast is only a serious problem when it’s hyphal. Otherwise, it’s just benign.

      Think about it. “HWP-1” stands for “Hyphal Wall Protein-1″.

      From: Wikipedia:

      This “Hyphal” denomination is due to Hwp1 appears exclusively on the surface of a projection called Hyphae that emerges from the surface of this fungus.

      But we already know that candida doesn’t grow Hyphae when gut pH is normal.

      So, for most people, they can avoid Hwp1 problems by simply avoiding gluten and keeping their gut pH normal. There is no need for these healthy individuals to worry about their benign yeasts. And people who get a mild candida infection (unlike yours) can usually just modulate their gut pH to switch off the candida Hyphae, and eliminate too much exposure to Hwp1.

      A healthy person can tolerate a little Hwp1 from foods. We’d all have died off long ago otherwise. People with some genetic issues seem to be more susceptible to Hwp1 exposure (the gut doesn’t close back up properly).

    • Duck Dodgers on August 25, 2014 at 09:20

      “My goal duck and yes I know gluten can cause leaky gut was for you to look at zonulin ..and food proteins /sugars as well seeing how simular foods can resemble your problem”

      Eddie, I don’t have the kinds of autoimmune issues that you deal with.

      For instance, if I drink raw milk, it makes me feel better. It doesn’t give me any obvious issues (raw milk also has compounds that seal up the gut of infants and calves). I stay away from gluten 90% of the time. I was VLC last year and had all sorts of issues — likely from fermentation dropping. I increased fermentation with RS and other fibers and my problems went away. That was my experience, and it’s a pretty normal response to changes in fermentation.

      My point is that the average person can have normal temporary response to zonulin-triggering foods and not everyone is dealing with the extreme issues and immune reactions you have. If you want to talk about autoimmune issues, for those who have them, that’s great. Go for it! I’m sure it will help a lot of people with autoimmunity. But, let’s not suggest that everyone eventually gets autoimmune issues by drinking milk, etc. That’s just not the case.

      In the early 19th century, Deacon Whitman lived to 107 years of age, with no apparent health issue, eating lots of gluten-rich grains every day and drinking lots of raw milk. He died peacefully of no apparent cause. He didn’t take antibiotics, but he ate a ton of fiber, from grains. Everyone is different.

    • eddie on August 25, 2014 at 12:09


      You realize I dont have any auto immune dieases now your talking about. my point

      I can drink beer with the best of them (my friends)
      A night on the weekend a six pack

      Eat cheese. .have some yogurt dont dont have any problems. ..now eating starch for the last 3 weeks..I haven’t added mushrooms and most likely wont for some time

      Im giving tou my thought and opinion and your taking small snips to write and base your responses

      Im not saying everyone should avoid milk gluten or even Rs im saying many things are increase ing people allergies ….or disease mainly amount children

      You can spin it how ever you want
      But simular foods proteins/sugar can resemble
      Bacteria or yeast… depending on your genes

      An event can turn on at anything. Standard cookie cutter vaccine s and treatment when does have an event —– today is not working

      Currently I have no allergies etc problems

      Im sure the person you talk about also ate real grains fermented with a real starter in instead of frankin wheat and yeast from a packet–with out fermentation which doent break down grain

      You have to wonder why theres an up tick in auto immune events and people getting sick

      You are free of 90 percent of gluten ?? Why and when you do eat what particular gluten do you eat

    • eddie on August 25, 2014 at 12:17

      As well deacon whitman
      Drink raw milk… what value is processed milk the avg people are eating??? Other then calcium most is grain feed and high in omega 6

      What value are the avg people getting from soy lectin bread with frankin grains ..risen in 10 min from packaged yeast with no fermentation

      Im sure deacon most of his life didnt eat or drink this non sense…………

    • Duck Dodgers on August 25, 2014 at 18:16

      “Im not saying everyone should avoid milk gluten or even Rs im saying many things are increase ing people allergies ….or disease mainly amount children”

      Pasteurizing milk almost certainly caused milk intolerance in some people. In fact, the phrases “milk intolerance” and “milk allergy” were non-existent in the English lexicon before Pasteurization existed. Of course, Pasteurized milk has literally killed off the bacteria and enzymes necessary for digesting milk.

      Deacon Whitman ate oatmeal, wheat, and corn porridges (what was known as “pudding” at the time). Those kinds of porridges pudding weren’t usually fermented. They were just overcooked grains that tended to be cooked/cooled/reheated a few times. Here’s a simple recipe. He also drank a ton of milk..

      From: The Christian patriarch: A memoir of Deacon John Whitman

      If there was any one article of food of which he ever seemed more fond than of another, it was milk. He often made his meal of this, either in its natural state, or boiled or made into milk porridge. There was a period of his life, between the ages of ninety-five and one hundred, when he almost entirely gave up animal food and confined himself to a milk diet. But, he thought that he experienced a clogging effect from his milk, and he returned to the common diet of the family, eating animal food in moderate quantities.

      Our 17th, 18th and 19th century ancestors probably didn’t have any trouble with milk and probably didn’t have much trouble with their grains or gluten either. So, we can’t just blame these ancestral foods and their traditional preparations for today’s problems.

      Antibiotics, modern wheat, GMOs, glyphosate, pasteurization and low-fiber diets, are more likely culprits. Richard tried to tell you this, above, but you kept hammering on about these very common proteins that have been widely consumed for millennia without the major problems we see today.

    • eddie on August 26, 2014 at 12:33


      Im all for mushrooms etc– but I point to that similar protein/sugar of them at the time of my gut failure. what I say wasnt helping me. even thou they have good effects.

      I have an old article from Chris Masterjohn take a peak..–again**** so no one takes this out of context this is his view*** — of the Zonulin studies f Dr. Fasano’s (gluten expert did) Chirs ‘s comments http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/what-no-one-is-saying-about-zonulin-is.html

      I point to this , as for me I ate gluten all my life–didnt know i carried so many gluten genes(HLA DQ2) and didnt have a problem until- 38 years old.. before hand I was ok. For me I see a relation between mannose and yeast

      Following my AMCA from labcorp test 162045 blood test ( Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) Expanded Profile) one test of many your local GI uses in trying to figure out whats wrong when ones gut goes a-wall. I found what Chris said to be interesting. but AMCA below can be–just simple statements

      AMCA- can be pathogenic fungi, particularly Candida species possible candida antibodies and fungal colonization
      Mannobiose is a disaccharide. It is formed by a condensation reaction when 2 mannose molecules react together .
      Much of the mannose used in glycosylation is believed to be derived from glucose, digestion of many polysaccharides and glycoproteins yields mannose
      phosphorylated by hexokinase to generate mannose-6-phosphate. Mannose-6-phosphate is converted to fructose 6-phosphate
      Recombinant proteins produced in yeast may be subject to mannose

      Secretion of sugars such as mannose into the digestive system bind to lectins (such as gluten) and protect against their toxicity.

      For me removal of all these foods and types (which like I say your not going to get someone to do) saw my numbers stay high– as well , I contribute the amoxicillin in this effect and yeast overload. Once this happen simular foods began to contribute to the problem. Removal of sugars, and mannons- and lowering my yeast foot print ) my numbers dropped. once normal– for some time, I put back in simular foods producing mannons and now I have no problem.

      I also mega dosed with lacto and bifido.. I am not saying this is everyones problem. Im saying the article is interesting and some views are Nevertheless, zonulin is markedly up-regulated in subjects affected by [celiac disease], even when treated with a gluten-free diet. NO gluten.. where I come back to simular proteins and sugars.

      When one goes gluten free— I did this at first you go to the hippie store and buy all gluten free foods…which are rice flour, potato flour , yogurt beans etc ,different types of rice, milk,
      many foods feeding yeast or high in sugars / or similar.

      Im just tossing this out there — since so many kids are now getting intolerances and gut problems. Removing all those basic antibiotics —which every kids first gets most likely penicillin– treating with probiotics , RS and fibers etc most likley will lesson the blow of problems.

    • eddie on August 26, 2014 at 12:51


      Our 17th, 18th and 19th century ancestors probably didn’t have any trouble with milk and probably didn’t have much trouble with their grains or gluten either——————

      but they made real bread—fermented and broken down… and there milk was raw like you drink. ( it was pasteurized with really no valve left) There grains were not frank-in grains with high gluten as well( which isnt broken down at all in the modern bread process that started mainly in the 50’s

      good link on bread and why natural leavened bread is the choice—and really what they consumed in the 17th 18th and early 19th century’s. There are many local sources for this bread locally ( but you have to search natural leavened bread) in your area

      The whole focus right now for people is to be gluten free——which you see isnt fully the problem —but its big business making some people a FAT wallet, like the word PALEO

      If you dont mind me asking what grains do you eat since 90 percent of the time you are grain free?? oats ,quinoa ,amaranth ,millet buckwheat??? wheat??

    • Gemma on August 26, 2014 at 13:54


      I hear you. You are saying that some proteins in Candida’s wall are hypothesised to exhibit molecular mimicry to gluten and zonulin and cause leaky gut even if you eat no gluten. (Maybe it is the Candida itself ordering the intestinal junctions to open, who knows. Duck, how was that?)

      And you are also saying that after getting rid of the fungal overgrowth your health improved, including leaky gut.

      So can we both agree on the fact that fungal overgrowth in the intestines is no good?

      Next, I was trying to tell you that eating killed fungi initiates immune response and helps clearing out the alive fungi from your body.

      Any questions?

    • eddie on August 26, 2014 at 14:33


      Yes yes good wording… i just felt adding in any type of yeast/mold would have up set what I was doing even thou many studies point to them killing lowering candida ( which many studies Duck has pointed too) Since i took in a yeast/mold in the antibiotic , i believe that is what turned on and actually gave me the problem. after getting rid of the yeast— the actual foods that showed have helped , probiotic yogurt , kefier etc didnt help me… and — now i can eat and suspect there helping me.
      Your statement MAYBE– Candida itself is ordering the intestinal junctions to open,
      just an opinion — I say this because — all these gluten free people /celiac /intolerance dont get better— but eat simular proteins/foods and foods that feed it….. a so called gluten free diet

      Hey i ll tell you I have missed my lithuanian mushrooms, my potatoes etc.. I had another baked potato this weekend..

      What do you have articles on killed fungi.. Im certain my genes HLA DQ play a Large role in candida. If anything I hope to have someone look at me(for there testing) like Dr. Fasano. I had planned to make an appt at the 3 year mark – He was 15 min from me but move to MA from MD. Im sure many think im crazy(HAHA) but I feel someone can get something of use from me or out of me….

    • eddie on August 26, 2014 at 17:37


      As well , I want to point out my GI didnt treat for yeast( he would laugh)….I was told I had crohns with ulcer colitis — my first problem started — was gluten intolerance
      My endo showed bad ulcers top, the rear, inflammation- problems and fistula. Antibodies toward crohns

      The only reason , I began to look at yeast- was one hemorrhoids, two what my GI told me above. God bless him , he ment well. he ran everything he could.. I came back negative to all gluten tests. But he ran a test called HLA DQ disease association -being positive and also double the normal for AMCA– another test IBD expanded panel(which is usually not ran by most GI’s) I began to investigate and question things. I read into what HLA DQ was..
      finding out my genes in HLA DQ2

      If you look at all the immune suppressant drugs GI’s give– you see all of them cause fungal over growth. (they state this loudly every night when you watch TV from 5 to 8 pm. My first problem was gluten, and my stomach killed me when i ate it… later came milk and soy. Every one on my fathers side lives into there 90’s (german and Irish mix) looking at my mothers side…they all dropped dead from 58 to 68 (italian) all getting crohns / type 2 or colitis.

      For me , i think – I was lucky and got to this early. stopping and reversing it. ( to me before the damage could be done) When you read , you can be intolerant (gluten) until you get the disease your then classified as celiac im sure if I took the drugs and did what they told me ,I d be sick and also fully have celiac and bad arthritis as well loosing parts of my bowel to crohns/ colitis. The drugs — they give you lower inflammation and turn off the immune systems reaction… and all the antibiotics they give then kill off what ever you had good bacteria wise….bringing up your bad levels. you already know this. Turning off the immune system your going to get fungal overgrowth. I know how crazy it may seem… but to me it seems –maybe the yeast open the barrier , and the bacteria get in. The monkeying around by the GI’s with antibotics then allow more bacteria to get in and infect.

    • Duck Dodgers on August 26, 2014 at 18:23

      Excellent wording, Gemma (as usual).

      Eddie, I agree about the preparations. I’m quite familiar with the traditional preparations. You know I love to research ancestral populations! :)

      As for 90% gluten free, I don’t really consume grains at home. I’m a safe starch kinda guy. But, if I’m out of the house, with friends, I’ll eat whatever I want just to have fun. So, that’s all I meant by 90% falling off the wagon. I don’t seem to have any ill effects from the occasional treats, etc. Kresser refers to it as the 80/20 rule. I think it’s important to let loose every once in awhile.

      Great conversation. I enjoyed it!

    • eddie on August 26, 2014 at 18:37


      thats about what I do now for gluten…beer etc following your LEAD!!!! Im lucky to have a bakery near by that does a real starter… so I will soon consume on a regular basis but not daily. the 80/20 is good you cant live in a BOX —- sucks for me- no source for real RAW milk where I live…

    • Gemma on August 27, 2014 at 00:07


      The fungal wall beta glucan stimulate immune response but it is so complex. If your internal homeostasis was so much shifted towards inflammation, then any immune weapon you tried to use against the fungal pathogen might have been used against you. The fungi can control your immune system so well.

      So it would make more sense to reduce the enemy size by washing it away (biofilm disruptors, lectin containing foods that bind the pathogens, garlic, clay, probiotics etc.) and try to calm it down, and only later on wake up and call your own immune system army for help.

      Guerrilla war!

      Which is probably what you did. I wonder if it could have been faster.

    • LaFrite on August 27, 2014 at 02:29

      I am mostly wheat free, even grain free (save for rice, which I do like) but I’ll have the occasional Belgian beer. Only noticeable effect ? I would belch once or twice, that’s about it :)

      Even though I love croissants, baguettes, etc, I really stay away from them 99.999999% of the time. They just are too easy to eat and “fall in love again with” …
      I think I reached sch a decent balance (gut wise, food wise, etc) that I don’t want to compromise it with wheat products …

    • eddie on August 28, 2014 at 06:28


      When I got sick….the first thing I did– was ask why my GI did not run vitamin deficiency checks
      My iron was low, my vit d3 low… My first thing I did was find all vitamins free — of similar proteins/sugar as yeast… (free of soy, gluten, milk starch etc) Vit d3 is hard to find without SOY… same with probiotics — (renew life 50 billion or 80 billion.

      I first started with LARGE DOSES of L-Glutamine ) and Zinc-Carnosine ) I didnt do clay but added a good amount psyllium husk to scrap / flush out my system. ate LC (which we know trashes your bacteria good and bad– and can lower yeast ( until it changes and is able to use fat for food… I added in all the coconut oil, caplyric acid , grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf and neem, and other stuff rotating them.. As time went on I got SUPER MIGRAINES and dumped blobs of mucus and things.. I even had tiny stones in stool… I also at time would get rashes between my fingers… Hemorrhoids wents nuts (bleeding) then my fistula came… almost like I pushed everything low and out(the exit -rear)…. Now –im perfect, But as Ive spent time tracking documenting all this — while doing all this -Ive seem strange things happen and move– Ive taken photos of my hands, feet, nails , documented headaches , stool…. foods — removal of similar- proteins/sugars and watched as things dropped in testing –some controversial testsing which I dont argue some say is quackness ( for me I say alot of it isnt accurate- unless you removal similar foods sugars to and proteins simular to yeast/bacteria to what tests show high.

      It has fully worked for me—not saying its for everyone. I know this thou ,I killed lowered yeast…I know I lowered my clostrida bacteria… I know I raised my lacto and bifido , (my lacto shows none now in all my testing but Im sure it stays high in my tract now)I ate lots of lacto things and my probiotics are high in lacto… I changed my colon PH and Im sure my ph has changed in the higher part of my my GI tract.
      I know similar sugars /proteins had an effect -milk,soy,gluten and even starch

      I used lots of garlic, many greens(vegetables) lots of inulin and fiber from veggies and from nuts..almonds, walnuts, hazel buts. Now I can tolerate and eat the gluten, starch and milk… But I regularly every couple months take things that lower yeast. I continue to add and mix many different types of bacteria– in probiotics to diversify my bacteria now . I havent used soil based probiotics but at some point will,. I know I ll never take a mold/yeast type antibiotic again in my life :)– with the great diversity of bacteria now in my gut , I dont think there will ever be a need for one in the future. And as duck says — the bacteria and PH keep the yeast in check …

  3. Romeo Stevens on August 19, 2014 at 18:04

    Hey Richard,
    I posted many months ago about our whole foods Soylent alternative, MealSquares. I’m happy to say that we’ve managed to boost the resistant starch content to 20+g/day by both preprocessing the oat flour and having our beta testers refrigerate them before eating. Initial blood panel results are coming in and….surprise surprise CRP is way down, HDL is up, Triglycerides are down. This is despite the fact that, horror of horrors, they are 40% carbs. We’re definitely running into resistance from our paleo minded testers and marketing segments, but I think the blood panels along with subjective reports of better sleep etc will get us there. Thanks for posting so much info on this blog, we’re referred to it during product development.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 10:24

      Romeo, that looks pretty interesting, especially if the cost per 400 kcal meal is reasonable.

    • Romeo Stevens on August 20, 2014 at 17:01

      We haven’t hammered out final pricing, but it will be within the range of other meal bar products (clif, probar, etc)

  4. Bill Strahan on August 19, 2014 at 18:07

    Richard! I haven’t been around in so long, and it’ s nice to check in and see you still pursuing the masses in your own unique way.

    I went through the super low carb stuff as well, many years ago. Then Faigin and Natural Hormonal Enhancement made all sorts of sense to me. Stacking a Paleo/Gluten Free template on top of the NHE template got me in the best shape of my life in my early 40s.

    Eventually low carb will be looked at as a short term intervention and reboot of certain…dare I say it…pathways. But for a long term diet, nope. Been there, done that, and with no changes to my diet I quit losing fat and started gaining it back. :(

    You’re not a guru, you’re a disruptive-awareness-raiser. Keep up the fight.

    On a personal note, my hot wife got her private license, we bought an SR22, and have flown 125 hours in 4 months. Life is good. We come out to Napa occasionally. Is that close enough to you to come say hi?

    Kind regards

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 10:46

      “On a personal note, my hot wife got her private license, we bought an SR22, and have flown 125 hours in 4 months. Life is good. We come out to Napa occasionally. Is that close enough to you to come say hi?”

      Sure. Or, depending on where I am at the time (I’m living in three places, currently), you could pop over. Here’s a list.

      RHV – Reid Hillview in San Jose. When I’m there’s it’s 15 minutes away. The place I did my own training from.

      PVF – Placerville, CA. When I’m up there, it’s literally 5 minutes away. Great place from which to stage a flight tour of Tahoe.

      CPU – Calaveras County Airport. 35 minutes from where I’m at now, in Arnold, CA.

      COA – Columbia, CA. 40 minutes from where I’m at now.

      I’ve flown into and out of all of those except Placerville.

      Let me know next time you’re around. Sched is very flexible. I don’t even know what it is beyond Friday at 10, when I leave here, but probably either to SJ or back to Placerville.

    • eddie on August 20, 2014 at 06:21


      Eventually low carb will be looked at as a short term intervention and reboot of certain…dare I say it…pathways. But for a long term diet, nope

      LOVE this post— my whole argument and what Ive seen happen to me… 41 and for me best shape of my life (and removal of crohns/colitis)— it was like a tear down and build from the ground up..

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 10:48

      BTW, Cirrus is like the dream machine. Some years back I read a book in about one sitting on the entire design & test saga.

    • Bill Strahan on August 20, 2014 at 16:05

      Next time we’re in California then!

      I’m enjoying the Cirrus. We’ve flown the Grumman into the ground, played in the homebuilt, but the Cirrus is built for travel and it does that extraordinarily well. It’s a little sad that the role of pilot can be reduced to that of a systems manager except for takeoff and landing, but I can always turn off the autopilot and fly it as much as I want.

      And it’s so nice to have a second pilot for long flights. Just makes things easier. Only downside is I used to brag about how Strahan Air had the hottest flight attendants. Those days are over. We do have really hot co-pilots though. :)

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 17:51


      It’s your baby, and you get to have exclusive dominion. But, it would be so cool of we arranged it, to come into Plaverville, and we arrange a $100 burger deal to Tahoe with my dad in the backseat.

      I’m pretty good at kissing rubber to asphalt even on a crosswind, last second rudder kick. :)

      But, SR22 makes you King.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 17:59

      “Those days are over. We do have really hot co-pilots though.”

      The essential reason some women choose to keep themselves hot over a lifetime: pilots.

  5. Sap on August 19, 2014 at 18:10

    Part of the problem is people like maximum results with minimal effort, and for a lot of people (especially very obese people), VLC diets offer that. The recommendation of “eat real food” or even “eat these foods” is still too hard (I say this from experience having people ask on a daily basis for a meal plan or another form of hand-holding).
    I agree there needs to be change with the emerging science, but I’m already frustrated trying to get people to see it because for a lot of them VLC/keto still “works”

  6. LaFrite on August 20, 2014 at 01:39

    For overweight people, VLC / keto works because (according to my understanding, not an expert), you restore the GLUCAGON pathways.

    There, I said it: PATHWAYs, haha :D

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 03:37

      Every time I see the word “pathways,” reminds me of that cartoon with two white coats in from of a blackboard. There’s tons of mathematical equations, followed by “and then magic happens….”

    • LaFrite on August 20, 2014 at 03:55

      haha, yeah, exactly. Or, for some odd reason, when I hear pathway, I picture a rainbow in my mind. Must have been a hippie in my former life …

  7. JimF on August 20, 2014 at 06:01

    Since it’s so obvious that VLC/keto is “doomed,” and RS is the solution to all bad health/diet/nutrition, it would be even more inspiring if you started posting before and after images of all the RS success stories flowing in.

    Ya know, maybe similar to those images posted by LCHF/VLC experts who really don’t push RS – such as found here ( http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf-made-lindha-half-the-woman-she-used-to-be ).

    I am just going to take a wild stab at this, but I willing to bet the VLC/keto experts have a lot more impressive success stories turning people’s lives around than the RS-ideology crowd.

    With that said, I personally don’t do VLC/keto. Don’t plan to (unless I develop cancer or become morbidly obese). But I will keep to my low carb, high fat diet, which has worked well in my case. And I will now continue to consume potato starch and other RS/prebiotics because of all the evidence that the gut biome love it, and they seem to affect so many health issues. But for me, the only obvious thing RS has done is to make me pleasingly regular and gain a couple of pounds.

    Per my own experience and hopes (thus projecting onto others), I see RS as a valuable complementary tactic for better health via the gut environment, not as some replacement strategy for either LCHF or VLC/keto.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 20, 2014 at 08:17

      “RS is the solution to all bad health/diet/nutrition”

      Strawman, i.e., lie. Never said it, never implied it.

      ” it would be even more inspiring if you started posting before and after images of all the RS success stories flowing in.”

      What, like from a colonoscopy?

    • eddie on August 20, 2014 at 10:19

      Id love to see ones BAD endoscopy or Colonocscopy before

      and then after …that would be c@@L (RS)

      for me ,I had my first colonoscopy at 13 , then 19 , 28, 34 and 38 all never finding anything the same answer each time looks good and hemorrhoids

      When my stomach failed at 38 I got an endoscopy shortly after the rear end failed.same 38 .. massive fistula… Small inflammation endoscopy nothing but hemorrhoids in the rear… rice,milk, starch, potatos bread and soy F*CKED me up at that time period….

      I d be in to seeing somones results –from F*CKED to healthy

    • EF on August 20, 2014 at 11:10

      “it would be even more inspiring if you started posting before and after images of all the RS success stories flowing in.”

      Right – because health is determined by how you good you look in a banana hammock.

    • Tinkerer on August 21, 2014 at 16:59

      If not being “the solution to all bad health/diet/nutrition” is the sort of criticism that VLCers can come up with of RS, then that’s an unintentional endorsement.

    • eddie on August 23, 2014 at 09:02

      Worked for me…..but I also took large doses of lacto 10 strains and 5 bifido strains while doing it
      You wont find many good studies on probiotics while doing this because big pharma makes no money
      Worked for me…..but I also took large doses of lacto 10 strains and 5 bifido strains while doing it
      You wont find many good studies on probiotics while doing this because big pharma makes no money

      Now post the other KEY Here…removel of simlar foods proteins/sugars hwp1 cassin and soy ..you may have forgot to look and post this

      As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and c
      Now post the other KEY Here…removel of simlar foods proteins/sugars hwp1 cassin and soy ..you may have forgot to look and post this

      As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and c
      As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and checked actually had fugal over growth and died die to the cancer drugs

      Its proven that the cancer treatment usually people rise in fungus overgrowth. Many who take to many antibiotics get cancer ……and blood cancer

      Please report back what you find on on hwp1 cassin and soy your missing my key point …remove food lc was only 1/4 of what it did I feel this part is highly important

  8. rs711 on August 20, 2014 at 06:38

    History tends to repeat itself.

    The gut biome is a novel area in science and to many, seems like the long-awaited panacea.
    This was true for genetics, to an even greater extent I’d argue. Same for immunology. Same for infectious diseases.

    I follow microbiome research with great interest and find it easier to understand in the light of what we already know. That is all.

  9. EF on August 20, 2014 at 08:29

    Jimmy Moore is attending Paul Jaminet’s PHD retreat in October. This, more than anything, signals the end of the VLC movement because people listen to Jimmy more than history and science. Sad.

    • Patricia on August 21, 2014 at 07:35

      He’s flogging a new book called “Keto Clarity.” Take that as you will.

  10. Michael44 on August 20, 2014 at 20:17

    JimF said –

    “I am just going to take a wild stab at this, but I willing to bet the VLC/keto experts have a lot more impressive success stories turning people’s lives around than the RS-ideology crowd.”

    Jim, if we want to do comparisons. I spose we could compare hunter gatherer peoples success stories compared to VLC/KETO stories.

    Here http://blueswami.com/Photos_Aborigines.html?page=1&scope=1&sortby=id&dir=desc&pic=1732&anchor=pic

    Not one long-term healthy human culture is known to have followed a VLC/Keto diet. Why not????

    • GTR on August 21, 2014 at 04:03

      @Michael44 – some interesting trivia: Aboriginals have Denisovan DNA in them, around 3-5% (in addition to the usual 2.5% or so average Neanderthal) – basically they are quite archaic in DNA.

      Denisovans are an archaic homo version, living in Eastern and Southern Asia – equivalent of Neanderthals, who lived in Western Eurasia. Proably a robust race, with black skin (compared to robust, but lighter Neanderthals).


      Denisovans themselves have a trace elements of even older DNA, probably from Homo Erectus. This is possible to determine, as scientists are learning how to sequence very, very old DNA.


      When it comes to a speculation on influence of the old genes on fat preferences – we know that Europeans are unique by inheriting Neanderthal lipid catabolism genes (Asians have similar percent of Neanderthal genes, but different ones). This might (a pure speculation) make Europeans invent and prefer fatter diets than others do?

      By the way, the high-fat diet advocate Dave Asprey is 4.5% Neanderthal. How that influences Dave’s choice of high-fat, lower-carb diet? And are these preferences representative of other Europeans that have high Neanderthal gene percentages?


  11. Gaby A. on August 21, 2014 at 06:50

    I think one component of the downfall of any kind of health “orthodoxy” is ignoring the simple idea of “the dose makes the poison”. This is why I’ve been impressed with the PHD and mixing it up with the ideas I’ve gotten from your posts and others (mainly fleshing out more detail on the Jaminets’ chapter on fibre in their book), I think this is the way to go forward. Now, I just have to learn how to cook consistently, and not just “assemble” food. :)

  12. John on August 21, 2014 at 08:02

    Grocery store was out of green bananas yesterday so I bought a green plantain for a smoothie. Tasted like I added some peanut butter, which was odd, but acceptable.

    Frozen blueberries/strawberries, plantain, milk protein powder, and 1% milk to thin. Hopefully I don’t die from “dirty” frozen blueberries or adulterated milk products.

  13. Christoph Dollis on August 22, 2014 at 06:06

    “Should it turn out that supplementation via things like PS, green plantain/banana flour, etc., help folks, then it takes no genius to conclude that they were fucktarded from day one. Or, ignorant-fucktarded, to be more magnanimous.

    “Nobody had access to isolated RS in human evolution. Ergo, starch consumption in various forms is a more appropriate dietary regime.”

    That (the bolded part) is what it’s been like for me.

    It started with resistant starch, progressed soon to amla after your Dr. Michael Greger of NutritionFacts.org videos, and when those two things made me feel physically better, including getting rid of longstanding severe acid reflux (which came back when I took away the supplements for a while, then went away again when I reintroduced them), it occurred to me that—

    “Wait, these are plants.”

    The penultimate value I may receive from all your posts about the resistant starch and amla, etc., supplements may simply turn out to be that realisation that plants are extremely good for me, rather than the supplements themselves. And frankly, I simply couldn’t bear to go back on another short-term effective low-carb diet. I was dreading the thought for culinary reasons. I was craving carbs (and eating them in the form of high-fat junk food).

    I’ve since converted to a starch-based diet (aggregately plant-based, high-fibre, high-carb, low-fat, unpurified food: mostly grains, low-fat legumes, vegetables, low-fat fruit, fungi, or algae; occasionally nuts, seeds, high-fat legumes, high-fat fruits, or alcohol; and rarely animal products, added fats, or isolated soy proteins) about two and a half weeks.

    Despite all the carbs including late at night, no acid reflux. I feel at least as good as before, and I’ve lost a belt notch. That’s the limit of my current testimonial.

    And I’ll admit it, I feel good about limiting my contribution to the harms suffered by sentient animal life used for human food. Whether this ultimately kills me quicker, makes no differences, or leads to a longer and better life, at least I’ve reduced that harm to others.

    Anyway, thanks for introducing me to Dr. Greger, Richard. He is an impeccably intellectually-honest guy, and points out pitfalls in vegan diets (B12 mostly) and how to plug them. His last video, in fact, was admitting that non-celiac gluten sensitivity may be a thing. He’s about the evidence, the science.

    And that says … humans ate a lot of starch. Why do we have starch receptors on our tongue and starch

    I feel positively silly that I used to eat this way for reasons of economy when I was 17 and pretty lean, but then I fell into two and a half decades of low-carb and Paleo and junk food yo-yo dieting.

    I’m not starving either. I’m eating to satiation, two or three times a day. Tasty food! Beans instead of meat. Not a big deal.

    • Christoph Dollis on August 22, 2014 at 06:10

      and starch-digesting salivary enzymes, I meant to say!

    • GTR on August 22, 2014 at 07:04

      @Christopher Dollis – “Anyway, thanks for introducing me to Dr. Greger, Richard. He is an impeccably intellectually-honest guy”

      So can you point his videos that show some advantages of animal-based foods?

    • Christoph Dollis on August 23, 2014 at 02:56

      Please see my reply in the comment below this thread. I guess I placed it into the wrong thread.

      Short answer, I tried, but the spam filter ate it.

  14. Michael44 on August 21, 2014 at 22:35

    Hi GTR.

    Yes, I do understand what you are saying GTR, -the genetics are not identical of course, but are you talking about some Europeans actually having genetics that means that their bodies only fuction optimally in a state of long-term ketosis?

    I have learnt from Richard and his friends that apparently the emperor is not wearing any clothes – apparently not even the Innuit were experiencing ketosis for very long periods!

    Now, if the Innuit didn’t, what healthy societies actually did?

    What historical evidence can the VLC/Keto believers actually provide?

    I am very open to any info that is out there.

    In the meantime. we have this-


    and this


    Northern European genetics. Milk and grain eaters.- Carbohydrates.

    • GTR on August 22, 2014 at 13:56

      @Michael44 – I’m not actually making statements on the subject of influence of archaic genes on present Europeans fat preferences, but rather using words like “peculation” and a lot of question mark.

      But in all fairness there seems to may as well be some causation – lowcarb-higfat looks like mainly White craze; it didn’t catch up with Asians or Africans… and then we learn that only Whites inherited a lot of fat-related genes from Neanderthals. With even a particular example of a particularly high-percent-Neanderthal white person promothing high-fat diet. Coincidence?

      Why archaic genes are able to make a lot of difference? For one – archaics had a lot of time to evolve to adapt well to conditions outside of Africa. “The first humans with proto-Neanderthal traits are believed to have existed in Eurasia as early as 600,000–350,000 years ago[9] with the first “true Neanderthals” appearing between 200,000 and 250,000 years ago.” says Wikipedia. Even more if they were admixed too with the previous population of Erectus, that was presend in Eurasia like 1.8 mln years ago.

      A good example of a good, and very meaningful adaptation to environment would be some Tibetan high-altitude genes – a thing critical to thriving at high elevations.
      “Altitude adaptation in Tibetans caused by introgression of Denisovan-like DNA”

      Now, Neanderthals were clearly cold-adapted. Moderns could go into ice-age Europe only after invenging tailoring including needles (invented around 40k years ago – during Cultural Revolution). Neanderthals were persisting while clothed in blankets. One of the factors why they could is shown by their skeletons – more compact, rounder body better retaining heat. Other – likely, not certain are: more fat insulation, hairier body, and higher internal heath production – some estimates give the 3500-4500 kcal/day. Tthere was even a hypothesis that they died of overheating :-)
      There’s also a hypothesis that their women were not organized in a specialized “gatherer” caste, but took part in hunting.

      Basically the metabolic differences between out-of-africa (or arabia) Moderns and Neanderthals is big, so any inheritance in this area should be meaningful. And the proven inheritance for Europeans is in the genes related to fat.
      Thus a suspicion that it is somehow related to the propensity of Europens for falling into higher-fat / lower carb diets. This of course might turn out not to be true, but is worth some thought.

    • Gemma on August 24, 2014 at 05:28

      And on the AMY1 and the European ancestry, a new paper from Jan 2014:

      Ancient European genomes reveal jumbled ancestry

      “Newly released genome sequences from almost a dozen early human inhabitants of Europe suggest that the continent was once a melting pot in which brown-eyed farmers encountered blue-eyed hunter-gatherers.

      Present-day Europeans, the latest work shows, trace their ancestry to three groups in various combinations: hunter-gatherers, some of them blue-eyed, who arrived from Africa more than 40,000 years ago; Middle Eastern farmers who migrated west much more recently; and a novel, more mysterious population whose range probably spanned northern Europe and Siberia.

      The authors’ gene sequencing suggests that the individuals from Luxembourg and Spain, although dark-skinned, probably had blue eyes and belonged to groups known to be hunter-gatherers. The German woman, meanwhile, had brown eyes and lighter skin, and was related to Middle Eastern groups known to have developed farming. However, both the Luxembourg hunter-gatherer and the German farmer had multiple copies of a gene that breaks down starches in saliva, a feature that has been proposed to be an adaptation to the grain-laden diets characteristic of agricultural life. On the other hand, neither of them had the ability to digest the sugar lactose, found in milk, a trait that emerged in the Middle East after the domestication of cattle and that later spread to Europe.”

  15. Michael44 on August 21, 2014 at 22:40

    geez, i stuffed up the link again :)

    the other link is this-


  16. Christoph Dollis on August 22, 2014 at 07:50

    I tried, but they were eaten by Askimet. Richard can fish them out if he’s so inclined.

    Have to run for an appointment so I only linked to two, but they should prove the concept.

    Of course, he argues animal foods have more harms than benefits and, barring starvation or inability to supplement with B12, I think he’s probably right.

  17. Michael44 on August 22, 2014 at 21:36

    GTR said –

    “Basically the metabolic differences between out-of-africa (or arabia) Moderns and Neanderthals is big, so any inheritance in this area should be meaningful. And the proven inheritance for Europeans is in the genes related to fat.

    Thus a suspicion that it is somehow related to the propensity of Europens for falling into higher-fat / lower carb diets. This of course might turn out not to be true, but is worth some thought.”

    Yes GTR,

    I do agree with you on this. It is definitely worth some thought, and people of Northern European heritage may indeed need more fat than peoples of African or Asian heritage.

    But, how much more??? Enough to put them into almost permanent ketosis?

    I replied to Jim’s comment in the way I did because he was using the old comparison argument – i.e making out that if someone looks better than someone else, then that MUST mean that they are on a superior diet.

    And so, I decided to give him a bit of his own medicine (Not that I needed to of course, as Richard sorted him out quick smart anyway :) ).

    but, the question really should be:-

    How much higher fat and lower carb (and maybe protein levels) are needed by peoplesswith Northern European genetics? Enough to induce almost permanent ketosis?

    • GTR on August 23, 2014 at 14:26

      I haven’t seen anything about any kind of persistent ketosis or VLC in published information about archaic or paleolithic humans. There were even signs against it, like plant consumption evidence.
      What that type of information indicates for sure is that there’s a need for somehow reading more information about nutritional needs – macronutritients, their ratios, calorie requirements – also from genes, not only from some average tables. This is partially practiced in medicine for few selected genes – like ApoE4 – but it looks like implementing such methods in nutriton science is necessary to remove confusion what the optimal diet should be – as it may be different for different gene holders, or even populations.
      The other possible benefits relate to genomics slowly acquiring a capacity to show what a true Paleo diet was.

    • eddie on August 23, 2014 at 14:47

      I worry at times for some of the LC followers of jimmy many people read things RS ..keto paleo etc and jump on the banwagon. You make a good point on APO genes and type. Many may be f-ing themself up. I tested my apo type before I did a stent of LC I tested myself I am 3/3 . I think will find in the end paleo eating will be redifined by

      People like richard and duck..to include
      Many missing things this tribes eat

      Paleo has become a big bussiness

  18. Michael44 on August 22, 2014 at 21:40

    Damn, that last 4 lines of mine should not be there!

    My posting skills still need a lot of work :)

  19. Tinkerer on August 23, 2014 at 15:10

    GTR wrote on August 21, 2014 at 04:03: “we know that Europeans are unique by inheriting Neanderthal lipid catabolism genes (Asians have similar percent of Neanderthal genes, but different ones). This might (a pure speculation) make Europeans invent and prefer fatter diets than others do?”

    We know that Neanderthals likely ate starchy grains too. (Neanderthals Ate Plants, Too–Cooked Wild Barley Found In Neanderthal Teeth,

    GTR wrote on August 22, 2014 at 13:56: “the proven inheritance for Europeans is in the genes related to fat.”

    It’s also in the genes related to starch:

    “Our high-starch sample included two agricultural populations, European-Americans (n = 50) and Japanese (n = 45), and Hadza hunter-gatherers who rely extensively on starch-rich roots and tubers (n = 38)12. Low-starch populations included Biaka (n = 36) and Mbuti (n = 15) rainforest hunter-gatherers, Datog pastoralists (n = 17), and the Yakut, a pastoralist/fishing society (n = 25). … We found that mean diploid AMY1 copy number is greater in high-starch populations (Fig. 2 and Supplementary Fig. 1 online). Strikingly, the proportion of individuals from the combined high-starch sample with at least 6 AMY1 copies (70%) is nearly 2 times greater than that for low-starch populations (37%).

    …we have shown that the pattern of variation in copy number of the human AMY1 gene is consistent with a history of diet-related selection pressures, demonstrating the importance of starchy foods in human evolution.” (Diet and the evolution of human amylase gene copy number variation, 2008,

    European-Americans scored higher for mean amylase genes than the Japanese, and had the highest median amylase # of the seven populations studied:

    Mean / Median # of amylase genes of the high-starch populations:
    Japanese – 6.57 / 6
    European American – 6.80 / 7
    Hadza – 6.92 / 6

    So European-Americans have more genes, on average, for starch digestion than the Japanese who are famous for eating plenty of starchy rice. The Hadza also eat plenty of starchy food, such as ekwa tubers.

    Some species of raw Hadza tubers contain much more starch than russet potatoes, whether raw or cooked:

    Mean starch content range of uncooked, dry, peeled Hadza tuber species: 19.6 g/100 g to 26 g/100 g
    Composition of Tubers Used by Hadza Foragers of Tanzania

    Potatoes, russet, flesh and skin, raw, 15.9 g/100 g

    Potatoes, Russet, flesh and skin, baked, 17.4 g/100 g

    • GTR on August 23, 2014 at 18:26

      @Tinkerer – doesn’t having a large amylose gene copies count work against gut biome? Meaning more non-resistant starch is digested very efficiently before reaching the gut, so that less is available for the gut bacteria?

    • Tinkerer on August 24, 2014 at 03:54

      Quite the contrary, it is evidence for it, because amylase doesn’t digest resistant starch, it digests digestible starch, and in nature digestible and resistant starch come together in packages called tubers, legumes, nuts and seeds. Also, as Duck has reported, there are similar components in raw fresh animal kills (digestible animal starch and resistant animal fibers). Early research missed much of this and it’s increasingly looking like the early incomplete evidence misdirected many of us. The growing recent research has been showing that our ancestors ate plenty of starchy foods for millions of years.

    • Tinkerer on August 24, 2014 at 03:57

      Plus, the super-hunter meme was rather appealing, especially to males like me. It’s a bit humbling that mundane tubers, legumes and seeds are turning out to have played such a large role in human history. Perhaps the digging stick was just as important, or more so, than the spear.

    • Tinkerer on August 24, 2014 at 04:05

      Forgot to mention nuts and fungi (ex: mushrooms), which also contain resistant starch. Fungi and insects also contain a protein called chitin that’s semi-resistant to digestion, fermentable, and feeds bacteria, similar to plant fibers.

    • eddie on August 24, 2014 at 04:31

      Im reading you comment that fungi contain RS starch and wonder when my gut failed I had starch problems along with milk and gluten

      Which I argue are simular proteins /sugers

      I have reseached and linked the milk soy and gluten
      But did not knoe fungi/RS link I find this interesting

    • Gemma on August 24, 2014 at 05:13

      As an addendum to this discussion:

      The study on salivary amylase gene copy number variation (Perry et al) has been discussed extensively here at FTA a long time ago, I would have to search deep in the blog…

      In my opinion it shows nothing like increased AMY1 for Europeans, just see the means and medians. Does that seem statistically significant to you?

      Unfortunately, this paper was parroted ever since as a proof that it is the genes responsible for human ability to digest starch. As it seems, it is not so, many studies done later on show a similar pattern among many different populations in the whole world — simply some people have more copies (up to 21 copies), some have less (2 copies, even some Hadzas), and most of them have the mean numbers. Anywhere you look.

      And as the gut microbiota has altogether many more genes than its human host, it has a much bigger role in nutrients digestion. The research even shows that the gut microbiota can influence and induce the expression of amylase in the saliva. Salivary amylase is a very tricky enzyme!

    • Duck Dodgers on August 24, 2014 at 11:33

      Plus, the super-hunter meme was rather appealing, especially to males like me. It’s a bit humbling that mundane tubers, legumes and seeds are turning out to have played such a large role in human history. Perhaps the digging stick was just as important, or more so, than the spear.

      Indeed. A few years ago, when all of the starch genes were finally figured out, it finally hit scientists that all these starch genes had to have evolved from eating lots of starch (duh).

      From: Starch Made Us Human

      Traditionally, when scientists spared a thought for our hunting and gathering forebears, they focused on the hunters and the meat they brought in. But it may be that it was our ancestors’ less glamorous ability to gather, eat and digest roots, bulbs and tubers — the wild versions of what became carrots, onions and potatoes — that increased the size of our brains and made the hunt and the territorial expansion that came with it possible…Perry and Dominy were eating pizza (appropriate food for thought in this case) when they decided to look into why “humans have so damn much” of the starch-specific protein in their saliva.

      The very fact that these genes are so prevalent (at least in most humans, and domesticated dogs) show that starch was a major component in human evolution.

    • Tinkerer on August 24, 2014 at 14:20

      Gemma wrote: In my opinion it shows nothing like increased AMY1 for Europeans, just see the means and medians. Does that seem statistically significant to you?

      Hi Gemma, Thanks for the input. I actually considered floating this study by you first, knowing you to be knowledgeable and diligent, and didn’t know that you had already critiqued it. I was able to find one of your critiques (https://freetheanimal.com/2014/05/resistant-diabetes-roundup.html#comment-612253). It appears you consider the differences practically insignificant, yet Stephan Guyenet, Chris Masterjohn and others took it seriously. It helps a layman like me to get different perspectives to consider.

      The mean AMY1 copy # difference between Yakuts and chimps also doesn’t seem huge (roughly 5 vs. 2, IIRC), yet my understanding is that it is widely accepted as a practically significant difference (which doesn’t guarantee that hypothesis to be correct, of course). If you could point me to one of the later studies showing different data, I’d be interested to check it out.

      I did look at the means and medians and it was those that I drew my numbers from for the “high-starch” groups. If you’re comparing all seven populations, here’s the most dramatic reported difference:

      “Strikingly, the proportion of individuals from the combined high-starch sample with at least 6 AMY1 copies (70%) is nearly 2 times greater than that for low-starch populations (37%).”

      Whether that is a practically significant difference and whether the study was valid requires more study, just as the research on genes relating to fatty acids does.

      My broader point to GTR is to consider ALL the evidence and approach it consistently, rather than look just at the evidence for some European genes relating to fatty foods. If we’re going to argue that having genes related to lipid catabolism is practically significant, then it makes sense to also take into account other evidence, such as the evidence on genes related to starch (as well as the microbiome, epigenetics, etc., etc.).

      Gemma wrote: Unfortunately, this paper was parroted ever since as a proof that it is the genes responsible for human ability to digest starch.

      Luckily, that’s not my point, nor was it Perry’s, Guyenet’s, or Masterjohn’s, as I recall. That would have irritated me too.

      Don’t worry, I don’t believe the notion that Inuits can’t digest starch, for it’s well accepted in the field that even chimpanzees and baboons digest plant starch (and I would add animal starch), despite having fewer mean AMY1 copies than Inuits. Chimpanzees have even been observed using digging sticks.

      Gemma wrote: … many studies done later on show a similar pattern among many different populations in the whole world — simply some people have more copies (up to 21 copies), some have less (2 copies, even some Hadzas), and most of them have the mean numbers. Anywhere you look.

      I’d be interested to see the other studies. The study I linked to also provided the individual ranges. The whole data appears to show European-Americans in the high end of the overall amylase copy data range.

      Gemma: And as the gut microbiota has altogether many more genes than its human host, it has a much bigger role in nutrients digestion.

      I agree completely on that! This also helps explain how some people without lactase persistence can nonetheless consume dairy foods without lactose intolerance symptoms.

    • Tinkerer on August 24, 2014 at 14:27

      If it turns out that both the Neanderthal and AMY1 data are relevant and mean that I should eat more fat and starch for health, I’m perfectly fine with eating plenty of meat and potatoes with butter. :)

    • Gemma on August 24, 2014 at 22:06

      Hi Tinkerer,

      we’ve been looking into at this AT THE SAME TIME when Duck was presenting here all his evidence for ancestral populations relying mostly on glykans (starches, animal starches). We’ve been running virtually around the whole world and digging out old books and reading what people were eating. Starches or animals starches everywhere.

      So it was a bit irritating to read Perry et al. who DECIDED that there are some low starch and high starch eating (ancestral) populations and did his measurements and calculations accordingly.

      I am not aware of any study checking AMY1 in Inuits – and I have searched. Do you know of any?

      I will post the links on AMY1 here and you will regret for asking me :-)

    • Gemma on August 25, 2014 at 07:49


      A concise paper on CNV in AMY1:

      Copy Number Polymorphism of the Salivary Amylase Gene: Implications in Human Nutrition Research

      You can google full text via researchgate.

      You can read it with your knowledge of gut microbiota which is kind of not mentioned at all in this paper.

    • Gemma on August 26, 2014 at 01:34


      Do you still want to hear more about salivary alpha-amylase?

      Yes, low copy number for AMY1 predisposes to obesity, see:

      But you also know that obese people have different gut flora composition. And people with various copy numbers for salivary AMY have distinct gut microbiota composition too.

      Google this: “The Effect of Salivary Amylase Gene Copy Number on Gut Microbiota Composition and Function”, by A. C. Poole

      (would be fun to see more research on that)

      Eat more fiber and eat dirt or add some SBO and your gut flora composition will change and help you digesting starch even if your gene copy number for AMY1 is low.

      For instance, have you ever heard of Bacillus Licheniformis, a soil bacterium, widely used by industry to produce amylases and other stuff? You can find it in probiotic supplements, e.g. BODY BIOTICS. (There are other bugs doing that too, of course).

      Eat your dirt and feed your gut microbes with fiber. You will get balanced blood glucose and plenty of SCFAs in return.

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 03:06


      I think we agree on the main point I was trying to communicate with the Perry data–that there isn’t a significant difference in AMY1 copy # between Europeans and rice-eating Japanese. Even many advocates of ketogenic diets acknowledge acknowledge that the Japanese are well adapted to eating starchy foods. So given the fact that Europeans have roughly the same # of AMY1 copies, the notion that Europeans are much less adapted to starchy foods than most other populations just doesn’t make sense.

      As I mentioned before, even chimpanzees and baboons eat and digest plant starch with only 2 copies of AMY1, so neither Perry nor I were trying to imply that any human population cannot digest starch.

      Gut bacteria do of course also help with the digestion of starch. It is much more difficult to try to track the evolution of human gut bacteria over millennia than genetics, so we work with what we have. The genetic data is not meant to diminish the importance of bacteria.

    • Gemma on August 28, 2014 at 03:25


      Jesus. Is it my English or what?

      Your message to me got Lost in Translation.

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 03:38

      In other words, from the start my point is that Europeans are just as well adapted to eat starch as anyone else, if not more so, and have been eating starch from day one and earlier.

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 03:41

      And thus the notion that some LCers promote, that chronic VLC makes sense for Europeans because are Europeans are much less adapted to starch eating than other peoples, doesn’t make much sense.

    • Gemma on August 28, 2014 at 03:47


      This version sounds better :-)

      And what about the poor Neandertals or Inuits?

      Or the “low starch eating populations”, according to Perry?

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 04:23

      Perry was not saying that Neanderthals or Inuits can’t eat starch, just that Europeans and Japanese are even better equipped for eating starch and Perry’s hypothesis is that it’s because these populations ate more starch over the millennia.

      Remember, even chimps can eat starch with just 2 copies of AMY1, and even animal foods contain starch, so Perry and the vast majority of scientists accept it as a given that humans can eat and digest starch (with the help of bacteria, of course).

      I don’t see any contradiction of Perry in anything you’ve written, nor in any of the links you posted. Perry’s research supports starch eating, not starch avoidance.

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 04:24

      …and even for the Inuit and Neanderthals. :)

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 04:27

      Many ancient Europeans so loved and depended on starchy foods, that they brought some from the Middle East into Europe.

    • Tinkerer on August 28, 2014 at 04:36

      Here’s another way to think of it – chimps, baboons, Neanderthals and ancient H. sapiens all said yes to starch, and Europeans said MOAR STARCH!

    • Gemma on August 28, 2014 at 04:45

      Perry said: “We found that… individuals from populations with high-starch diets have on average more AMY1 copies than those with traditionally low-starch diets.”

      You say: “Perry was not saying that Neanderthals or Inuits can’t eat starch, just that Europeans and Japanese are even better equipped for eating starch and Perry’s hypothesis is that it’s because these populations ate more starch over the millennia.”

      Perry cherry picked data and created a wrong hypothesis.

      “I don’t see any contradiction of Perry in anything you’ve written, nor in any of the links you posted. Perry’s research supports starch eating, not starch avoidance.”

      I think Perry does not know what carbohydrates and has never heard of gut bacteria.

      “Perry’s research supports starch eating, not starch avoidance.”

      On the contrary. He created a notion that supposedly low starch populations have less CNV for AMY1, therefore anyone with low CNV for AMY1 can now declare that he cannot eat and digest starch.

  20. Gemma on August 24, 2014 at 05:37


    I was super interested in your mushroom eating experience during your UC healing route. In general, eating heat killed mushrooms provokes an immune response and therefore helps healing.

    Would it be in your case a bit a too strong immune response, if you ate mushrooms in the acute phase? Was it helpful to decrease inflammation in other ways and reintroduce the immune provoking foods slowly?

    So many questions.

    I hope you can visit your wife’s country while it is still Lithuanian and Baltic and not Russian, and pick some delicacies!

  21. eddie on August 24, 2014 at 05:38

    Does someone know these starch genes??
    Hla dq
    Hla dr
    Hla dp
    Where they fall under id be interested in checking and dugging futher on me in this area

    I have talked about the lab corp test ibd expanded panel some say this test is quack but used in stadard medicine for gi s testing 5 antibodies

    Many say it is not acurate but I say due to simular proteins and sugars. Foods and bacteria etc can be broke out in each antibody. When my stomach failed I had high amca and alca ..if you look up both you can detect foods and simular proteins

    Removing these foods my scores stayed high
    I then attacked what I determined the bacteria and yeast types. My scores came down

    Today bringing back in these foods you naturally see the scores have gone up ..but now hang in the safer higher safe range. The more simular foods I eat in proteins move me in the danger range .I test every 3 months .if I eat to much my numbers go to hig
    I eat moderate they stay normal

    Id be interested looking at the starch genes more your talking about .

    • Duck Dodgers on August 24, 2014 at 12:22


      All this constant testing for antibodies, investigating Zonulin, talking with Eileen Laird, and looking at proteins/sugars that “confuse” the immune system suggests that you are dealing with an autoimmune condition, which (even according to the Zonulin link you posted above) suggests a specific combination of genetics and leaky gut issues.

      If so, I’m genuinely curious why you suggest that all these highly-specific autoimmune issues (i.e. proteins/sugars “confusing” the immune system) apply to average people, who don’t have autoimmune issues?

  22. Gemma on August 25, 2014 at 12:19

    For those who have not noticed yet: Tim Steele (tatertot) opened his own blog recently. You can find a lot of information related not only to potatoes and resistant starch.

    Really worth visiting: http://vegetablepharm.blogspot.com

    • eddie on August 25, 2014 at 12:30


      It is very good..I have looked around hes doing a good job as well ..this is where I saw elaines blog ..where he posted a snip from her experiment ing try to fix her problems with starch gluten and milk slowly trying to fix herself from arthritis and intolerance s. Simular to my past experience

      He has alot of good stuff on RS etc ..alot of good reading

  23. Gemma on August 25, 2014 at 12:59

    “He has alot of good stuff on RS”

    Because it was him digging into papers and researching all that science on the resistant starches and other fibres a few years ago and bringing it to the light for everybody to benefit, via Richard’s blog.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 25, 2014 at 20:37

      “Because it was him digging into papers and researching all that science on the resistant starches and other fibres a few years ago and bringing it to the light for everybody to benefit, via Richard’s blog.”

      Largely true, but it’s about a year, not years. I make no bones about being largely an integrator, synthesizer, and promoter of what’s good. All I require of myself is reasonable familiarity.

      That’s why people come to me. But, I’ll always be straight about it.

    • Gemma on August 26, 2014 at 00:21


      Thanks for clarifying.

      I went to Vegetable Pharm blog and said Hello, the least I could do.

      I should have said: Thank you very much for everything, sir.

  24. eddie on August 25, 2014 at 13:10

    jordon rubins amasaiemma and duck

    I am normal now and consume and continue to increase things cheese a little milk etc ..
    My son has consumed lots of raw milk traveling back and forth to lithuania..as well his mushrooms gemmain MD we do not have sources where I am forbraw milk..my son uses grass feed full loaded milk for me im interested in jorda
    n rubins amasi product what are your thoughts of this… as I plan to add this into my mix/gut

    • Gemma on August 26, 2014 at 00:39


      On amasai. No idea. At a first glance it looks man-made and expensive.

      I am really happy to have so much nature-made foods available and easily accessible, including raw milk from cows grazing nearby. Or potatoes, still a bit dirty and with some soil. Or mushrooms from the forest. Or some fresh-caught trouts. And various herbs from my garden.

      Or, some local honey mixed with pollen :-)

  25. Mari on August 27, 2014 at 10:18

    Hi, I am very new to the idea of RS, but I have been eating VLC for almost 4 years. I lost 80 pounds, but gained back 50, even though I have remained LC for the majority of that time. I have tried many different methods to add carbs back in to my diet, but I can’t seem to get past the 30 grams a day mark. Any time I do, about 30 to 45 minutes after I eat, my heart rate shoots up from my normal 75 bpm to over 100, all while seated. I do not check my blood sugar. I have read some info about incorporating RS into my diet to help my gut bacteria and to possibly allow me to tolerate more carbs in my diet. I already try to incorporate homemade kefir and fermented vegetables in my daily diet, but I now realize eating VLC doesn’t really give the probiotics in the kefir and vegetables much to eat. I would love to use potato starch in my diet, but I have Hashimotos disease and I am supposed to stay away from night shades, so I’m not sure if it’s a good idea to eat that. I did buy a jar of Now Foods Nutraflora FOS, thinking it was equivalent to the RS in potato starch, but reading most of the comments here, I realize that it is not. What I would like to know is if the nutraflora will help, or if I should try something else? I would love to be able to not have to eat VLC anymore. I am constantly exhausted, freezing cold and now the only way I can drop any weight is by staying under 1700 calories, in addition to staying under 30 carbs. When I told my endocrinologist about my problems with weight loss, he just prescribed me an appetite suppressant, which is the only way I can stay under 1700 calories. You all seem extremely educated in this realm, so I turn to you for some advice. Thank you :)

    • Gemma on August 27, 2014 at 13:55

      Hi Mari,

      I think you need a real medical help to address all your issues.

      I have noticed extensive discussion going on here right now, perhaps you find some tips and answers how to go on in RS and fibers, and you can ask for advice:



      P.S. Drink some ginger tea with honey, you will feel warmer.

    • eddie on August 28, 2014 at 07:12


      I read the “STATEMENT ” you have Hashimotos disease.. Duck and I have hashed it out and bumped heads :) he is the man!!! Being LC for some time my self… but not doing the crazy way or staying fully so long( as some).. I would say this– DUCK should jump in because he has posted alot. Im going to get some flack here. but one of things people with Hashimotos have is high yeast. If you were low carb so long I bet at first it was great , I bet your lowered your yeast… killed off alot of bad bacteria..but also good. As Duck and studies point out (he posted alot).. being LC for so long plus the fact you have Hasimotos I would guess just my opinion your yeast flipped over at some point to EATING the low carb foods diet.. you starved out everything(it first you did ok) now your missing alot of key good bacteria. and your yeast is enjoying your Fats.
      have you looked into yeast at all??? candida… have you checked your vit D3 levels… iron etc. iron store. Vitamins and folic acid??? ( b12)?? I have been mouthing off – my own opinion of being soy- gluten or possibly milk free in the process of repairing a gut.. Probiotics free of soy , gluten and milk. a SOy free vit D3 source.

      Duck likes Chris kessler here is a long link from him on hasimotos disease
      http://chriskresser.com/the-healthy-skeptic-podcast-episode-4 It is pretty good

      root causes for hasimotos disease

      Root Cause #1: Gluten Sensitivity
      Root Cause #2: Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins
      Root Cause #3: Glutamine/Zinc Depletion
      Root Cause #4: Parasite
      Root Cause #5 Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO)
      Root Cause #6 Fungal Infections

      You see these !!!!, you see gluten, Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins
      and Fungal Infections . there are others listed here thou

      Being low carb so long — and duck can point this out your yeast will actually take on the fat.
      look at the Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins to soy, gluten and milk to YEAST

      you see loss Glutamine/Zinc Depletion many people who take glutamine they say help close off the gut. (not used here but in asia and japan. I personally used this for 4 months I used one very expensive and zinc carnosine

      Just a thought and opinion.. If your Cold,,, feet etc look at yeast –check your iron and iron ferritin stores , b12 etc and that vit d level
      You need to repair your gut….what ever you have.. notice more cold etc when your period comes ??? week before… start tracking get in some probiotcs — I personally like the renew life brand from my own experience

    • eddie on August 28, 2014 at 10:42


      I used the following as well
      Blue bonnet b complex 50
      Free of milk, egg, fish, crustacean shellfish, tree nuts, peanuts, wheat and soybeans. Also free of corn, yeast, gluten, barley, rice, sodium and sugar.

      For Iron –IF you need why you need to see a doc.. IRON WILL HURT YOU>>>>Rainbow Light Certified Organics Plant-Source Iron — 50 Vegetarian Capsules (Curry leafs)

      Vit D3 (No soy ) lanolin base with olive oil

      Probiotics RENEW life 50 billion or 80 billion
      gluten free and milk free

      I also used fish oil and krill rotating them
      as well flax seed oil

      fish oil –http://www.nordicnaturals.com/en/Products/Product_Details/514/?ProdID=1431

      krill oil pill–

      Flax seed —http://www.natrol.com/p-100-omega-3-flax-seed-oil.aspx

      now that im normal — I take probiotics regulatory toss in b complex 2 times a week. everything else I get from FOOD , I dont do fish , flax or krill …… try and get my sources of omega 3 from foods now

    • Brad Baker on August 28, 2014 at 00:05

      @Mari, what are you doing for exercise? Skipping one or two meals per day – ie, daily intermittent fasting is one way some people have found an easier way to limit calories with less hunger effects. Kinda tough learning (adaptation) curve but works well once you get past the hump.

    • Gemma on August 28, 2014 at 00:27


      You are a woman. Hypothyroid, that is why you are constantly exhausted and cold. I think IF is the last thing you need at the moment.

      Go to those forums mentioned above, there are people, mainly women describing almost the same symptoms. AFTER VLC EXPERIMENTS. Start eating better and try to repair your gut flora. It will take time.

      And yes, some exercise and enough sunlight and all that is important too.

    • Brad Baker on August 28, 2014 at 07:24

      @Gemma, what are the detrimental effects of IF to hypothyroid? More stress hormone production making things worse? Is this even for short duration fasts like skipping a meal or two? What about a pseudo-fast… like low calorie intake for two meals and one larger meal per day?

      Another option could be eating a normal 3 meals but saving all you carb intake for the last meal at night. This way you keep lipolysis higher during the day when you’re more active.

    • Gemma on August 28, 2014 at 08:31

      @Brad Baker

      I think she and her gut flora have both been starved more than enough by VLC. She needs regular feeding so that the thing calm down a bit, and the bugs do not feel the need to make her store more and more fat. They are hungry now.

      Any lipolysis and weight loss and IF can wait.

      And Mari, listen to Eddie.

    • Brad Baker on August 28, 2014 at 08:44

      @Gemma, I was not recommending that. In fact I think a large amount of DAILY carbs is fine, and in her case especially a good thing. I’m just suggesting that those carbs be ingested at night to set the stage for burning body fat during the day when she (may be) physically active. Hopefully at least walking some every day. I doubt seriously that 16 hours or so per day without ingesting carbs is gonna hurt her. There will be plenty of glycogen stored up from the carbs eaten the night before. If you disagree that’s fine. I’m open to discussion/learning. I’m certainly not an expert on hypoT situations.

    • Brad Baker on August 28, 2014 at 08:54

      VLC after all is steady-state long-term low carb, generally. While IF or IDC (Intermittent Daily Carbs) is a perfectly natural eating mode, I think. I see no advantage at all to consuming carbs at (every single meal). Quite the contrary. IMO eating carbs for breakfast is the worst thing you could do for optimising body composition – save, perhaps, for athletes and very physically active people. It turns off glucagon production for as much as 5 hours hurting lipolysis.

    • eddie on August 28, 2014 at 08:56

      also getting the probiotics in are key….but you see some key notes… 1,2,and 6 with your
      Hashimotos disease and you say with the diease your to stay away from night shades…
      simular to my experience then how do you get in the probiotics that are to help you :(

      Root Cause #1: Gluten Sensitivity
      Root Cause #2: Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins
      Root Cause #6 Fungal Infections

      I used dairy free and gluten free RENEW life probiotics high in LACTO and bifido 50 billion or 80 billion….maybe once you have taken for a while and you work on maybe your yeast— from it rising from the LC (for 4 years) youll later be able to tolerate some night shades etc(gluten etc)… I could not do potato but now can….
      just a thought and opinion– but fixing closing that gut is important –you see the bad circle -your stuck in

  26. sassy on August 28, 2014 at 05:37

    Just read an article at mercola.com. It was about the gut biodome and colon health. I did not see one mention about resistant starch in the article. I also didn’t see a comment posted, concerning the same.

    Obviously, Mercolas’ bias against legumes, rice and potatoes was apparent.

    Don’t know how you can leave RS out of that conversation.

  27. Mari on August 28, 2014 at 13:43

    Thank you so much to everyone for taking time out to give me so much detailed advice! I definitely have much more to research and discover.
    Eddie- I know for sure I am gluten sensitive, because any time I eat anything with gluten in it, I will see anywhere from a 5 to 12 pound water weight gain over the course of 48 hours, depending on the amount of gluten consumed, not to mention the digestive stress it causes. I avoid gluten at all costs! I also try my darnedest to stay away from soy as well. You could very well be right about a yeast overgrowth. I’m not sure what kind of doctor I would go to see for a diagnosis, though and whether or not insurance would cover that type if thing. As far as I know, my iron and vitamin D levels are normal. I currently take many supplements, including 10,000 IU’s of vitamin D daily. I checked all of my supplements and thankfully, they are also free of all of the allergens/inflammatory ingredients you listed, so at least I have that going for me! I don’t take a probiotic supplement right now, I was only trying to incorporate fermented foods into my diet, but I will look into the probiotic you suggested. I have been taking L-glutamine a night with my magnesium citrate because I am sure I have leaky gut issues, but I don’t know if it’s enough. I take 500mg a day. I really do appreciate you devoting so much time to writing out a lengthy response to my dilemma. Trying to find answers to these problems can be so frustrating, especially when you don’t have the option to find a doctor that is willing to look at nutrition as a way to actually heal your body. Most just want to push pills that cover the symptoms you have, but never to help cure.

    Gemma- thank you for your advice too. Actually, the Chris Kesser article about LC is where I found the info on the nutraflora in the first place, which then led me here. :) I am hoping by adding RS and more probiotics I will see some improvements and then therefore be able to add more carbs back in to my life. I will also try the ginger tea with honey, it sounds lovely.

    Brad- I used to do IF a couple of years ago, but I can no longer do that. Any time I go too long without eating protein, I get very shaky and jittery. I also cannot consume a big amount of carbs yet at any meal, hence the main reason for my original post. I would like to also add exercise into my daily routine, but anything more than walking also leaves me jittery and shaky for a couple hours afterward. I think it might go hand in hand with hashimotos, but I’m not 100% sure. Thank you for you advice, though. :)

    • Gemma on August 29, 2014 at 00:15


      I apologise for directing you back to Kresser’s forum, I didn’t know you came from there.

      What you are describing after eating carbs seems as you are feeding “caged vipers”, bad gut flora stealing you precious nutrients. They care for their own survival only. You and your tissues are a growth substrate for them only.

      You can take all those tests or not. You might like to get medical help from Dr. Grace (Animal Pharm).

      Listen to Eddie, please. The strange feeling may come from glutamate reaction or alcohol being produced by fungal overgrowth.

      You need to start various probiotics and feed them good food (=fiber), so that they can settle in your gut, multiply and fight the yeast. Add SBO. SBOs will produce antifungals too. Clay may have the samee effect as SBOs.

      Good carb sources to start with: potatoes, chickpeas. You do not even have to cool or reheat chickpeas after boiling – the RS content does not change much.

      You iron level may seem fine but perhaps it is not. Both too little and too much is not good.

      Check that your fat soluble vitamins (A,D,K) are in balance. It makes no sense to supplement D only if you are not getting enough K2.

      If you eat fermented foods then make sure you are eating them with the above mentioned vitamins, that means together with some fats. Do not eat sauerkraut alone — the naturally present glutamate in fermented foods can make you feel bad.

      Your Mg supplement is the first one that gets stolen. Epsom salt bath in order to deliver via skin?

      Do check your vit B, and make sure B9 is folate and NOT folic acid. Supplement some riboflavin.

      Do not exercise. You are tired. Just do your daily walk – that is more than enough.

      I am no expert on thyroid issues. But if I were you I would not listen at all to the doctor who put you an appetite suppressant. You are starving.

  28. eddie on August 28, 2014 at 19:09


    What is your vit d level 70000iu a week seems high
    Vit d calcium and magnesium work together to much of one they dont work right. You might want to look into taking glutamine and magnesium together

    Yeast is a odd area.. you wont get many docs who will actually believe in …testing isnt to acurate ..google Candida testing mccombs there are several tests …no one test alone will tell you.
    You can try greatplans lab…oat test and comp stool tests.

    Not everyone is a believer in yeast..
    You can try 2 weeks of diflucan if you notice a difference then you know your problem taking just a pill is not a cure. Diflucan goes in the blood to kill yeast ..it also travels thru the liver some say its hard on it. Theres also nystatin which targets the gi tract not the blood system.

    From LC look at your feet skin…and toe nails as well itchy skin or radom rashes or migraines

    Being LC so long you may have noticed these above
    Note your periods each month…maybe worse

  29. Duck Dodgers on August 28, 2014 at 19:54


    My apologies if you’ve discussed this before, but what are your thoughts on probiotics that utilize so-called “beneficial” yeasts? S. Boulardii for instance. I can’t prove it’s related to the yeasts, but I could swear that probiotics that contain those kind of “beneficial” yeasts make me feel spacey. Would love to hear your thoughts/experiences. I tend to stick to yeast-free probiotics these days.

    • Duck Dodgers on August 28, 2014 at 19:56

      By the way, I’ve heard that these yeasts tend to produce glutamates, and some people tend to be more sensitive than others to such metabolites. That’s the best explanation I’ve heard to date.

    • eddie on August 29, 2014 at 06:51


      They seem to be good and benefit people in the fact they lower Clostrida species of bacteria — bad cdiff etc..
      For me I determined from what I was doing high clostrida and HIGH yeasts.. It is said to eat hammer yeasts and also lower clostrida.. which in some maybe good .

      For me in reading etc I found that S. Boulardii looks similar to bakers brewers yeast. Which would fall under ASCA (Saccharomyces )–anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibodies
      IgA /IgG antibodies. Now everyone believes in these etc but GI’s use this is one small tool in trying to help people. For me I had High AMCA –antimannobioside carbohydrate antibodies IgG antibodies (mannobioside)

      This is what I have on —ASCA and AMCA
      Intestinal yeast and ASCA+. Intestinal yeast infections are seen in malabsorptive diseases like coeliac disease. In Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis the presence of intestinal S. cerevisiae is rare, but the association with irritiable bowel in coeliac disease remains unstudied.[13]

      Anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibodies (ASCA), along with perinuclear antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibodies (pANCA), are among the two most useful and often discriminating markers for colitis.[1] ASCA tends to recognize Crohn’s disease more frequently, whereas pANCA tend to recognize ulcerative colitis.[
      ASCA antibodies react to the following yeast proteins
      200 kDA glycoprotein
      Mannan (oligomannin) is a component of the yeast cell wall. Antibodies to yeast mannans are found at increased frequency in Crohn’s disease and ASCA+ Crohn’s tend to have lower low levels of mannan-binding lectin.[14] Experimentally, antibodies to mannans from yeast can also crossreact to mannans of other types of yeast.[15] Study of the sugars indicated that a mannotetraose (4-mer) was responsible for highest response. [16] Studies of the 200 kDa glycoprotein antibodies found them commonly in healthy people, suggesting that the disease associated antibodies are to their carbohydrate moieties.[17] Mannans from other yeast, for example candida albicans, have found to cross react with ASCA which suggests that other yeast may induce ASCA associated diseases.
      Mannan-binding lectin (MBL) is a lectin produced by humans. In ASCA+ Crohn’s disease the serum level of this protein is lower. Cellular response to mannan in ASCA+ peripheral blood lymphocytes could be inhibited by adding MBL, however, a high frequency of mutations in the MBL gene was found in ASCA+ patients.[18]

      (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) of all antibody types (IgA, IgG, and IgM)
      yeast cell wall material–that is, mannan, or some antigen rich in mannose and cross reacting with mannan, may play an aetiological role in Crohn’s disease, but not in ulcerative colitis. The increases in IgA and IgM, as well as IgG suggest that local and systemic immune systems are selectively activated by antigen(s) present in the cell wall of baker’s yeast.

      Now for me personally — I seem to seem a problem with Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast— so for me when I removed all the similar things, I didnt feel strange etc.. At times After having the milk,soy,and grains out of my diet ,and even starch I felt strange when I ate them. My only guess was Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast. So I was scared to introduce the “beneficial” yeasts S. Boulardii .(Im not saying its BAD for you…its proven to be good. Now I dont get elevated ASCA antibodies and which from what I read yeasts S. Boulardii . would fall under this…I would suspect I maybe ok…if I took or take now.. but since I noticed Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast I just didnt go there. I figured I could still work on myself with out it.

      Just me personally well ,I have read and dug deep , I always see pretty much everyone with an auto immune disease if there tested seem to be high to AMCA or ASCA. Now that could be just from the amount of foods with yeast in it… or maybe the yeast it self.. why I personally removed all yeasts and foods with Gluten and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast to see if these would go down. ( AMCA in my case) when I removed all the mannose type foods my AMCA stayed high… until I took things to lower yeast , my first supplements then asking my doc for Diflucan. Foods high in mannose –Vegetables are also a good source of mannose.
      High levels of mannose are found in black currants, red currants, gooseberries, cranberries, cranberry juice, tomatoes, apples, peaches, oranges and blueberriess green beans, Avacado ,cabbage, broccoli, eggplant, turnip, green coffee beans, shiitake mushrooms and kelp. Mannose is also found in carob gum, the gum extracted from the carob plant, and in guar gum, the fiber from the seed of the guar plant. In the guar gum and carob plant, mannose is in the form of galactomannan, which are polymers of mannose and galactose.

      I removed all these foods and It stayed high.. also removed all Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast (milk, soy and gluten) after lowering this ( for me I personally think candida) my number dropped –attacking candida.

      Now today , I drink coffee (latte) every morning with almond milk with guar gum(Silk brand) and now eat lots of sauerkraut and avacados. MY AMCA has up ticked to the boarder range on — what the test says POSTIVE

      but I dont feel any ill effects — For me I know one of two things I have a YEAST (candida problem) well I did –its gone , but I may also have a binding problem with mannose and my immune system crashes from Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast( maybe my problem and how my gluten genes (HLA DQ2 fit in the puzzle) maybe my defect

      — right now im upping and upping my mannose foods for the most part (excluding milk, gluten and soy cross reactive to yeast- simular to candida( Recombinant proteins produced in yeast may be subject to mannose ) to see if I get sick… time will tell as every 3 to 4 months I draw blood for this test.

      I know with the mannose low or in the safe line of the test—I can eat gluten milk etc –because it doesnt bug me. Now when The number is up will see what happens.

      Me personally , as long as the yeast are low -I dont think the number matters what it is. and Why the testing is so bad and not accurate for people( it think the Cross Reactive of the yeasts screwing it up) then causing the gut to attack open and leak — in my case my gut

    • Duck Dodgers on September 2, 2014 at 08:55

      Eddie, thanks for this looong explanation. More than I needed, but I appreciate it! You’re a pro.

  30. Gemma on August 29, 2014 at 12:22


    I have recently learned from Dr. Ayers who is really a great expert on fungal cell walls that mannans are used by yeasts to mask themselves, so that they can enter the cells easier. The immune system and the cells do not see them as dangerous because there is a built in tolerance to mannosides.

    If the fungal wall cells are treated then the pathogen is exposed and the body and the immune system finally recognizes them. That is why I have asked brought the idea to eat killed fungi.

    But, mannose rich foods should be rather beneficial, not harmful.

    Though in case of fungal overgrowth they might mask immune response and make matters worse in long term. The pathogen would use the chance to enter unnoticed.

    I hope I am interpreting it right, I was quoting from memory now…

    But this idea is more important. Do you remember our discussion on FUT2?

    And just a thought now, because there was a connection of FUT2 deficiency to these inflammatory diseases. Reading on ASCA now:
    “Mannan (oligomannin) is a component of the yeast cell wall. Antibodies to yeast mannans are found at increased frequency in Crohn’s disease and ASCA+ Crohn’s tend to have lower low levels of mannan-binding lectin.”

    Have you taken the test, do you know your FUT2 status?

    If your body cannot make these mannan binding lectins, you have to eat lectin and mannose rich foods so that gut bugs can make it for you. D-mannose is source of L-fucose. Lectin rich foods? Beans, for instance. Do you eat beans and legumes?

    • eddie on August 29, 2014 at 14:08


      Thx , I understand all of what your saying — my whole argument too, is almost all auto immune diseases— arthritus , type 2 , crohns celiac etc people have high ASCA or AMCA and I think from playing around in my case — there looking in the wrong place (bacteria) when the problem starts with yeast and flourishes as bacteria( again just my thought) just an idea.
      My ASCA is always low per the IBD expanded panel (from labcorp# 162045 )

      BELOW 0 – 60 0-100 0- 50 0-90 RANGES ARE NORMAL
      March 2012
      ALCA 64 0-60 POSITIVE “negative less 45, Equivocal 45-50, Positive over 60”
      AMCA 204 0-100 POSITIVE “negative less 90, Equivocal 90-100, Positive over 100”
      gASCA 13 0-50 Negative
      ACCA 58 0-90 Negative
      pANCA tieter
      ____________________________________________________________________________________Oct 2012
      ALCA 40 0-60 Negative
      AMCA 184 0-100 POISITVE “negative less 90, Equivocal 90-100, Positive over 100”
      gASCA 14 0-50 Negative
      ACCA 23 0-90 Negative
      pANCA Negative
      Feb 2013
      ALCA 36 0-60 Negative
      AMCA 99 0-100 EQUIVOCAL “negative less 90 , Equivocal 90-100, Positive over 100”
      gASCA 21 0-50 Negative
      ACCA 16 0-90 Negative
      pANCA Negative
      May 2013 NEGATIVE FOR ALL
      ALCA 35 0-60 Negative
      AMCA 74 0-100 Negative
      gASCA 13 0-50 Negative
      ACCA 16 0-90 Negative
      pANCA Negative
      Sept 2013 NEGATIVE FOR ALL
      ALCA 23 0-60 Negative
      AMCA 58 0-100 Negative
      gASCA 11 0-50 Negative
      ACCA 18 0-90 Negative
      pANCA Negative

      ALCA 37 0-60 Negative
      AMCA 74 0-100 Negative
      gASCA 11 0-50 Negative
      ACCA 16 0-90 Negative
      pANCA Negative

      April 2014 Negative for all
      ALCA 41 0-60 negative
      AMCA 85 0-100 Negative
      gASCA 2 0- 50 Negative
      ACCA 23 0-90 negative
      pANCA Negative

      After I cleared out the yeast , foods have raised the AMCA — what I have for mannons are

      igh levels of mannose are found in black currants, red currants, gooseberries, cranberries, cranberry juice, tomatoes, apples, peaches, oranges and blueberriess green beans, Avacado ,cabbage, broccoli, eggplant, turnip, green coffee beans, shiitake mushrooms and kelp. Mannose is also found in carob gum, the gum extracted from the carob plant, and in guar gum, the fiber from the seed of the guar plant.

      I didnt eat starch for almost 2 years except nuts (almonds and walnuts) due to the fact when I ate it I got joint pain or a bloody nose at time eating potatos. didnt feel right eating gluten or milk and soy.. All my crazy non standarded tests seem to back this up.

      I havent taken the FUT2 test but plan on doing 23andme to get the raw data –im guessing Ill find this in there???

      I plan on doing this test next month MANNOSE_BLINDING LECTIN (MBL) labcorp test# 004900 check it out on there web site. I know I sound like a repeat record..but I think depending on how many HLA DQ2 gluten genes you have may are pre disposed to gut problems — to milk, soy, gluten and starch because of yeast looking like (Cross Reactive Proteins /sugars ) with mannon being so close to yeast. Docs and 90 percent of the scientists arent looking at yeast- but zoom in on bacteria. Im sure the loss of bacteria gives you yeast overgrowth or the overgrowth of yeast from a party life style or bad food choices or too many antibiotics.

      I dont do beans or legumes but as of last month i have been eating some once a week- a potato and some plantain chips… sinus are still fine , no joint pain , no weird feelings.

      I personally think , I got over the yeast… and my immune system has reset and It is now able to pick apart the mannon foods ( list I have) from the yeast. Above in April 2014 you ll see the antibodies are climbing.. I drink a good amount of almond milk with sun flower lecthin and guar gum. I also eat sauerkraut with my breakfast every day.

      I test again in late sept for
      this might be a fluke— but it has been working ???????????????????????? and I have zero gluten issues or milk problems now. Im still testing and playing with starch. so far it appearing I can eat almost anything ..Im wondering what my IBD PANEL WILL SHOW IN SEPT??

      But since all this happen , my sinus drained out cleared out with the help of grapefruitseed extract, coconut oil, and olive leaf spray.. Ive had no sinus issues Ive had all my life or snoring as well free or weather changing (migraines) ???? odd isnt it.

      Another factor , I feel is its in your nose and when you lay down your sinus drain into your gut while sleeping (RE infecting you) another reason its so hard to get out of the circle. I treated my nose and sinus as hard as my gut.

      I spoken that a clear yellow bio film fell out of my ear last year.. Even after a basic check up from the ENT —I put tea tree/grapefruit seed extract in my ear for like 7 month as well 2 months of coconut oil…

      As a kid I had lots of ear wax…. no problems or ear infections ever

    • Gemma on August 29, 2014 at 23:24


      You are perfectly clear now :-)

      It is obvious from your tests that when your pathogenic yeasts went down, your antibodies against them went down too.

      It makes very much sense what you are implying that the inflammation leading to these “autoimmune” diseases is caused by BOTH fungi and bacteria.

      23and me will tell you about FUT2. I was not implying that FUT2 has to do with your condition. You may have the other genes mutated: MBL.

      Google this: “Mannose-binding lectin: biology and clinical implications”

      “The innate host defence molecule mannose-binding lectin (MBL) has attracted great interest as a potential candidate for passive immunotherapy to prevent infection. MBL is a multimeric lectin that recognizes a wide array of pathogens independently of specific antibody, and initiates the lectin pathway of complement activation.

      MBL2 coding alleles associated with low blood levels are present in up to 40% of Caucasoids, with up to 8% having genotypes associated with profound reduction in circulating MBL levels. Low-producing MBL2 variants and low MBL levels are associated with increased susceptibility to and severity of a variety of infective illnesses, particularly when immunity is already compromised – for example, in infants and young children, patients with cystic fibrosis, and after chemotherapy and transplantation.

      These observations suggest that administration of recombinant or purified MBL may be of benefit in clinical settings where MBL deficiency is associated with a high burden of infection.”

      Hence my original thought: there are some foods FULL of such lectins that might help to catch the pathogens.

      To have both FUT2 and MBL deficiency would probably not be a very good genetic constellation.

      Can the right diet and healthy microbiome help overcome that?

    • Gemma on August 30, 2014 at 14:21


      On mannan binding lectins from foods. Forget beans for the moment.
      You ate a lot of garlic, didn’t you?

  31. eddie on August 30, 2014 at 15:30


    Im 2.5 years in I ate no starch except walnuts and almonds… removed all mannose foods yeast ..gluten and simular proteins for 2 years as well killing yeast

    I only added in gluten randomly in the last 6 months same with cheese some sour cream etc no problems randomly adding in some start now plantain chips …bake potato and now and then beans…in ny for weekend drinking beer from Lithuania with live yeast and having chili –beans

    With the yeast low and in check..seems there no problem 1.5 years ago I would have joint pain at time with starch nose bleeds and milk gluten stomach distress…

    Im nnot going crazy but will test drinking a good amount of beer for the holiday weekend.
    Sept I will test my amca and other 4 antibodies again as well the other test mlb as well 23and me
    I still feel if yeast candida is low the problem is in check

  32. eddie on August 30, 2014 at 15:41


    I ate lots of inulin..garlic..onions and asparagus
    Everyday one of the 3…I personally
    feel akkermansia bacteria plays a role some how In this process with yeast…

    • Gemma on September 1, 2014 at 03:26


      Thanks a lot for answering my questions.

      Your story definitely deserves a lot of attention!

    • eddie on September 2, 2014 at 05:46


      I had your email and miss placed it….could explain and share alot more

    • Gemma on September 2, 2014 at 07:28


      See your inbox.

  33. Tyler on September 8, 2014 at 14:48

    Does green banana and plantain flour contain any fructose?

  34. Holly Pearson on August 23, 2017 at 14:34

    I’don’t just like to say it is extremely unfair and wrong to say that people with auto immune disease are likely to have a diet high in processed foods. I never ate processed foods in high quantities, and have mixed Connective tissue disease as did my mother. Our diet was always free of processed food, we ate huge quantities of vegetables and fresh meat. I went through an unfortunate period of vegetarianism which didn’t help me much but my disease wasn’t caused by poor diet. In my case it appears to have been two generations of non-breastfeeding and candida overgrowth resulting in immune reactions to HWP-1 and gluten. That along with minocycline for ace in my teens (known for increasing risks of mixed Connective tissue disease) is how I ended up auto immune. Not by eating junk food.

    • Richard Nikoley on August 23, 2017 at 15:58

      Sometimes you just get dealt crap.

      My dad, two brothers and I all had the exact same L4-5 lumbar herniation that would not fix without surgery. I was the last holdout. Tried for over a year with all the bullshit. Surgery fixed it in a matter of hours, literally.

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