The Fall Of The Jimmy Moore “Webpire”

That last word in the title is tongue in cheek, of course. For years—before I got tired and banned her—I had this commenter—Eat Less Move Moore (get it?)—who literally made reference to jimmy moore in each and every of several hundred comments, and was the one who first used “webpire” to describe his online activities.

Of course, it put her into context. Nobody knows how well Jimmy does $$$-wise with his spare bedroom Low-Carb business, but it’s certainly not proportional to any sort of Empire I’m aware of.

Rather, it was simply a case of “everybody loves Jimmy.” Jimmy is a likable, affable guy—in person, and in his online presence. And, as a businessman, a loss-leader sort, where he gives of his time and efforts in trust that those who like what he does will support him via his various ways he has available to pay back—recognizing that any individual is perfectly able to get away scott free for life.

And, over the years, he also goes so far as to entertain alternative and even contrary ideas (to LC) on his blog and podcast, with no real guarantee that the information he’s exposing his readers and listeners to for free isn’t undercutting his own livelihood. This is admirable.

This is part of why I gave him a pass on inconsistencies for a long time. And of course, the those living in glass houses throwing stones thing.

So, what this post is about is merely to pass a link along to you, a post by Paul Jaminet, Perfect Health Diet. He invited Jimmy and his wife to a Perfect Health Retreat for a week, had them eat lots of “safe” starches, and so far as he knew until just a few weeks ago, Jimmy and his wife had a really great time, learned a lot, etc.

Jimmy Moore on the Perfect Health Retreat. Paul covers these topics, and does so in iron-grip restraint, adding new meaning to what would Jesus do?

  1. Why I invited Jimmy to the Retreat
  2. Jimmy’s Praise of the Retreat (in video, which is glowing)
  3. Jimmy’s Recent Blog Post
  4. The Bad #1 – Disorganized Schedule
  5. The Bad #2a – Christine was hungry
  6. The Bad #2b –Jimmy developed acne
  7. The Bad #3 – No info on ketogenic version of PHD
  8. The Ugly #1 – Jimmy Gained Weight (Jimmy found a week-long carb consumption as scapegoat for a massive weight gain that has people shaking their heads)
  9. The Ugly #2 – Jimmy’s Blood Sugars Over 100
  10. The Ugly #3 – Dogmatic Approach (LLVLC didn’t get high-five props at Paul’s Retreat)
  11. Summary of the Health Effects of the Retreat on Jimmy
  12. More on Jimmy’s Situation

It’s perhaps my most head shaking read in a long time. Paul Jaminet does not go off on people, and even going so far as “Darn you to Heck” would be unthinkable for him.

So, instead, he meticulously unravels Jimmy’s narrative or, depending how you see it, exposes him as a vicious, opportunistic liar in a totally nice, fair, balanced and objective way.

Not sure what else there is to say. Whether this is some new frustration on the part of Jimmy that caused him to do this, I don’t know; but to me, it prefigures eventual crumble.

For me, there is a grand distinction to make between disagreeing, even using the sorts or superlatives I’m fond of using, and actively lying to spin a rather complex narrative that betrays literally everything you said in a video interview at the time.

It’s true that materially, Jimmy and Paul are competitors, as this is business for both of them. So, it could be charged that Paul is being clever in competition. So, the proper way to handle that is to decline the invitation, accept and make no comment, or accept and either restate your opinion, or state objections with reasonable evidence.

You don’t spin an entire pack of outright vicious lies in order to publicly harm the business of a competitor who was on the up-&-up hospitable to you.

Shame on jimmy moore. Salute Paul Jaminet.

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  1. John Brisson on May 21, 2015 at 18:45

    I still think you are an asshole Richard, but I cannot agree with you more on this post.

    I consider Jaminet to be a mentor, and he truly is a nice guy who is trying his best to help people.

    Jimmy just damaged his gut lining with low carb dieting,, which is why he is having any of these issues. The same thing happened to Dave Asprey. Most people cannot tolerate zero carb dieting long term unless they either have the genetics to OR it is medically necessary (which still has its issues.)

    Cyclical ketogenic diets do not do as much damage because most people on them do not go into true ketosis, it takes awhile to deplete glycogen storage’s and most of the ketones they measure from testing their urine are from increased fat intake.

    I still believe that some carbs can cause issues with some people because of issues with the proteins / opioid peptides, but the same could be said about any source of protein to be honest. You and I differ on that though.

    I can not say keep up the good work because I disagree with most of it, but I can say keep being an asshole, being true to yourself, and keep breaking down social paradigms.


    • Kit on May 21, 2015 at 20:23


      You are the asshole here – a big, thoroughly fucked one at that. Even if you had a message in your comment, it is all lost in the diarrhea fountain that you spew forth right at the beginning.

      Keep your ‘disagreements’ private and contribute meaningfully. There are hundreds of people who have improved their lives as a consequence of Richard’s work – your disagreements mean nothing to anyone, unless, you write a civilized comment on where/what you disagree with. If it is as you say ‘everything’ – then just take your stinking, shit soaked ass out of here. We are doing quite well here without your fragrant presence.

    • John Brisson on May 22, 2015 at 08:02

      Its funny how you say that I contribute nothing, yet your comment had a negative contribution value and was way more offensive then mine could ever be.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 08:11

      Ok, just to hopefully nip this here, I was not offended by John’s comment. Actually, quite the contrary. I respect being able to acknowledge someone being right about something in the face of general disagreement.

      Thanks for sticking up, Kit, nonetheless.

    • Kit P on May 23, 2015 at 10:22

      Just saw this – just to ensure no credit where it isn’t due – that was another Kit up there, not I.

    • Kevin on May 26, 2015 at 15:06

      Lol. So your value-add is to just insult people? And that makes you someone worth listening to?

    • Kevin on May 26, 2015 at 15:06

      Speaking to Kit…

  2. Jeff on May 21, 2015 at 19:55

    Whenever I listen to Jimmy I get the feeling he bandies around memorized medical terms that don’t seem to fit with his simple minded lack of intelligence. I read Paul Jaminet’s post about Jimmy’s experience at the Perfect Health Retreat. You would think that Jimmy being most likely comped for the luxury vacation would be gracious and magnanimous in his review. Jimmy definitely showed his ugly side to all.

  3. Dr. Curmudgeon Gee on May 21, 2015 at 21:47

    Jaminet is a scientist & gentleman
    although i think he is more of a competitor to Mark Sisson than Jimmy tho. yet he & Mark are collegial, very cool.

    Jimmy calls Paul dogmatic? XXXXDDDD

    i forgot where i read it: but Jimmy claim he even has problems with non-starchy vegetable now. i dont’ know how he can tolerate that kind of boring diet.

    • Bret on May 22, 2015 at 06:23

      Jimmy calls Paul dogmatic? XXXXDDDD

      My thoughts exactly.

      i forgot where i read it: but Jimmy claim he even has problems with non-starchy vegetable now. i dont’ know how he can tolerate that kind of boring diet.

      I’m more amazed at his failure to connect the dots between his ketosis in perpetuity and his problems. There has been no shortage of intelligent criticism, but it seems he doesn’t find that criticism worthy of consideration.

    • Ruby Red on May 22, 2015 at 14:23

      Yep. Even Asprey and Abel James recently talked about how doing long-time keto diets were totally untenable. They seem to have returned to a more balanced “occasional low-carb” approach to life.

      Fact is, we’ve all probably been a bit dogmatic when it comes to diet ideas, and it just doesn’t serve us. I remember ranting against carbs a couple years ago and not understanding why a friend said that low-carb diets left him feeling really depressed. Late last year, I did a run of glycogen depletion and found myself in utter rage over the tiniest things. Fortunately I got talked down from the ledge by an online network of fellow fitness ladies. Then I had a couple servings of rice and all was well.

  4. Phil Bennett on May 22, 2015 at 00:27

    Yep hats off to Jaminet. A professional take down done through, no doubt, gritted teeth. Moore is now a prisoner of his own designs. He will either end up dead or come up with some sort of reboot rebranding, the latter unlikely. If Moore wasn’t such a media whore and posted his own methane emissions every quarter of an hour on InstaFaceWhasNot he might have gotten away with it. Old Kurt Harris called him out yonks ago. But Moores groupies really seem to love that guy and will defend him no matter what.

    Richard you need to keep up these attacks because Moore is becoming a serious threat to other people’s health.

    • paul on May 22, 2015 at 16:48

      “Some sort of reboot rebranding”

      But “livin la vida moderate Carb” just doesn’t have the same ring to it…

    • Bret on May 22, 2015 at 06:25

      I think the real threat to people’s health is their own gullibility. Jimmy can go away, and they’ll simply latch onto the next person they see who declares a magic bullet.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 17:26

      Jokes aside, Jimmy actually has a lucrative opportunity before him, if he comes clean, does the process of getting healthy again via a PHD-esque deal.

      Hell, he rebranded Atkins. Paul wouldn’t mind for an instant if Jimmy rebranded PHD for his own gig and in fact, would very likely be very supportive.

      Lemons. Lemonade. (with 2/3 sugar less than regular lemonade)

    • Wenchypoo on May 27, 2015 at 05:33

      And what will happen when Mark Sisson dies? My guess is that Primal will vanish, just as Paleo has gone away with the retirement of Loren Cordain. Will there be a new Lord of the Cave–will we need one?

    • GTR on June 1, 2015 at 08:58

      “if Jimmy rebranded PHD for his own gig” – difficult. PHD is COMPLEX. All those long lists of vitamins, of minerals with numbers, and the significant difficulty of integrating all those micro recommendations into a coherent implementation.

      This is a very distinct feature of modern diets, PHD, Wahls, Kresser’s Paleo, even Bulletproof etc. In order to try to be complete they have become complex. Older dietary trends were simpletons – just eat less calories, or just eat less carbs, or just eat no meat etc. Jimmy’s business is connnected to the diets of older types, he was not battle tested in the new world of complexity, might fall there.

  5. bioking on May 22, 2015 at 01:51

    I can’t wait for Jimmy’s review of your upcoming book. It’s going to be freaking awesome dude!

  6. Bret on May 22, 2015 at 06:16

    Good grief. Has Jimmy not humiliated himself enough already?

    I used to listen to Jimmy with almost religious regularity, especially the Ask the Low Carb Experts show. I didn’t want to miss a single bit of information in my quest to eat in the “correct” way.

    But a little over a year ago, I rapidly lost the desire to listen — and this was even before I discovered any of his critics, including FTA. Just didn’t smell right anymore. Felt like a weekly snake oil sales pitch. Plus, he constantly straw manned people who disagreed with low carb, diminishing his credibility big time. I remember he had Sally Fallon on once to confront her over criticisms of paleo she had made, and it was as if he wasn’t even listening to the words she was saying. I got the impression he was grandstanding to impress donors/followers — and to be fair, she seemed the same way.

    This latest wrinkle with Paul Jaminet is unbelievable. It’s pretty obvious that The Jimmy (he and whoever advises/funds/influences him) is disgusted with the success of Jaminet’s carb-emphasizing diet and is terrified of losing his followers to him.

    I really can’t envision a desire to listen to his podcast or read his blog ever again.

    • Wenchypoo on May 27, 2015 at 05:35

      Maybe he’s jealous of the fact that he himself can’t handle carbs. I can’t handle carbs either, but I’m not saying anything against those who can. I’m just not a member of the Lucky Pancreas club.

  7. Tim Maitski on May 22, 2015 at 06:25

    I had read Jimmy Moore’s review of the Perfect Health retreat back when he posted it. I was disappointed for him on his reported 13 pound weight gain and his awful outbreak of acne.

    It was a shock to watch the testimonial video he did for Jaminet on his last day. He looks great. He looks vibrant and healthy with a good complexsion.

    You would have thought that the results he got from that retreat would have been like a smack in the face showing him that he might want to change his approach for the sake of his own health. But it looks like he is past a point of observing reality since it seems like he is actually continuing down the same path. I just assumed that ones survial mode was more powerful but it seems like there comes a point where your survival mode can become blinded.

    How can you take him seriously about wanting to actually find a way to perfect health when he turns a blind eye to real results. It’s kind of sad, but very interesting to observe.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 07:20

      Now, juxtapose his October appearance in that video interview with Paul, with his interview here at Paleo fx a month ago.

    • Tim Maitski on May 22, 2015 at 08:29


      I remember seeing that video of the Paleo fx. I assumed that the Perfect Health retreat really messed him up and he never recovered. But now seeing the video at the end of the retreat makes me think that he’s losing his mind if he can’t see the clear differences.

      It’s also amazing how great his glucose numbers are for his last meal at the Perfect Health retreat. It kind of proves that he isn’t as metabolically deranged as he always says he is. But it seems that if he continues on his current path he’s really going to be messed up.

      I used to admire him because of his seemingly candid openness and open mindedness. I guess he is still very open about posting all of his test results for everyone to see but he seems to be blind to what it’s all saying.

      Now instead of thinking of “poor old metabolically challenged Jimmy” I’m thinking of “What a closed-minded dumbshit Jimmy Moore is”. I have no sympathy for him any more.

    • David on May 22, 2015 at 23:29

      He has people on the podcast who could help him, but he always shuts them down and says he knows what diet works best for him. Except it’s not working.

    • gabkad on May 23, 2015 at 16:56

      Maybe Jimmy got acne where the sun don’t shine?

    • Dez on June 1, 2015 at 09:19

      Jimmy is a fraud. Whether or not his metabolism is messed up I don’t believe for a second he sticks to his diet. Closet binge eater. And speaking of closets, when I first heard of Jimmy, I thought he was gay. I believe his binge eating and self hate comes from the fact he has to pretend to be strait.

  8. el-bo on May 22, 2015 at 07:25

    i predict no “fall”, and nothing will change

    • Wenchypoo on May 27, 2015 at 05:40

      He has submitted himself for testing, and discovered folate and iron deficiencies, as well as a possible thyroid issue. His cholesterol has come down from the high300’s to about 264. My guess is that he’s eating plant material now–his diet used to consist of 5 eggs and a stick of butter once a day. Look what the Warrior Diet did to him!

  9. John on May 22, 2015 at 08:32

    I think its entertaining to read Jaminet, after discussing the implausibility or incorrectness of Jimmy’s words, take them as evidence and explain the likely cause.

    PHD vs LLVD, as to reader reaction, is kind of like effort vs magic pill. In many ways Jimmy does not need to do much besides type words on paper supporting his position to keep people interested and hopeful. More magic pill than ever, given the post about ignoring weight and no longer sharing the truth with readers.

  10. Maggan A on May 22, 2015 at 12:23

    Evil -lyn carbsane loves you nowdays Richard Nikoley – I never saw that one coming!

  11. Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 13:06

    Do you have any references for that, because I’m certainly unaware of it.

  12. Maggan A on May 22, 2015 at 13:18

    yeah check her up on facebook – she loves anyone hwo hates Jimmy Moore – now you ar one of them

    • Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 13:30

      First, I don’t hate Jimmy Moore.

      Second, I hardly do stuff to impress CS.

      Third, I was primarily showing support for the good work of Paul, work that was purposely being besmirched by lies, half truths, and material omissions.

      Fourth, I no longer have a Facebook account and as a result, am a 3rd less narcisistic than the regular Richard.

  13. Maggan A on May 22, 2015 at 13:43

    Good for you – I just wanted you to know how this stupid woman is using you for her owne benifit – she is a hater – but I dont belive you are.

    Keep up the good work Richard – i love your blog ;-)

  14. David on May 22, 2015 at 14:08

    At least I learned about PHD from JM, and then FTA from the PHD website. Back when the podcasts were interesting, like the time he interviewed someone on the lack of iodine in our diets.
    17 comments on the LLVLC blog on the PHD retreat, the lack of activity should tell you something.
    You could see this one coming since the Chris Kresser hit piece JM did at the end of 2014-
    “I am fully aware that for whatever his reasons Kresser has been on a full-on assault of the low-carb message for the past several years . . . there haven’t been any studies that differentiate processed carbage from unprocessed whole food sources of carbohydrates. Therefore, this allows people like Kresser and Paul Jaminet, for example, to make bold statements like “there is no study to date that has shown whole food-based starches cause any metabolic damage whatsoever!”
    I just don’t get what he thinks he is accomplishing, especially after the safe starch takedown, when Paul came back and refuted every point.

    • Bret on May 22, 2015 at 16:17

      “…there haven’t been any studies that differentiate processed carbage from unprocessed whole food sources of carbohydrates.”

      Which would inform Jimmy, if he didn’t have his head so far up his ass, that low-carb is therefore no more justified scientifically than low- or no-refined-carb.

      I just don’t get what he thinks he is accomplishing

      He thinks he is telling the truth for the public good. He is unwittingly defending his religion on very shaky grounds (a kind way of putting it).

    • Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 16:54

      Bret, that quote really exposes Jimmy as just as bad as any statin pusher or theist.

      He’s shifting the burden of proof, in order to claim some foundation where the onus is upon everyone else to provide evidence against him.

      Yet, the entire history of humanity puts the onus on Jimmy and others to provide evidence that carbohydrate in the diet is per se bad—and this will be very tough for the born-again Christian, since he’ll have to go against doG, who saw for to make mother’s milk about 40% sugar.

  15. Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 15:17

    Yep, I predictably call out liars. So predictable.

    And it’s so unpredictable that someone will lie.

    For the record I have generally given Jimmy (and myself) a pass for years on shortcomings and inconsistencies. Hell, I even guest hosted his podcast about a year ago. But while I can be mean and vicious, I do not purposely tell lies (that are just so damn obvious) and complete fabrications to cause harm to someone else.

    Funny, I get pissed and call someone a cut and you think the world ends. Someone maliciously lies, I predictably call it out, and I get nitwits calling me out for being “predictable,” which is really the dumbest sort of regurgitation of bromide I can imagine, peddled by people who literally never think on their own, or for themselves.

  16. John on May 22, 2015 at 18:52

    Meanwhile, the combination of Colpo’s Fat Loss Bible and the Fitbit are still working great. I’m down a little over 20 pounds in two months, averaging about 300g of carbs a day. I’ve also been experimenting with probiotics and resistant starch again, and noticed those can stall out progress readings on the scale for a bit, but even then, my clothes seem to get looser.

  17. Onlooker on May 22, 2015 at 19:32

    Paul is unparalleled in his gracious and generous manner. Truly a wonderful guy, judging from his internet personality. He must be quite the gentle, kind and generous guy in person. What great work he has done in the area of nutrition – and yet so reserved, quiet and woefully underappreciated on the whole.

    • TR on May 23, 2015 at 13:37

      Onlooker- You are so very correct.

  18. Dr. Curmudgeon Gee on May 22, 2015 at 22:35

    finally read he said vs he said

    Jimmy has conflict of interests so he should either declined or accepted & stated his honest opinions. & why it does not work for him.

    (i can understand that not everyone can strive on the same diet & some may need more extreme measures.)

    but it is pretty slimy to give such glowing recommendation then stab in the back.

    the other reason is he could’ve just had a a frontal lobotomy.

  19. Richard Nikoley on May 22, 2015 at 23:01

    Oh please.

    The evidence is pretty clear that he benefitted in health and well being. Then he lied his ass off to paint it exactly opposite.

    I find the agendas surrounding this gobsmacking ridiculous, especially with folks who can’t seem to get their minds around the fact that Jimmy consciously spun a big fat lie to protect his turf while taking a big fat LC crap on Paul’s.

    It’s remarkable to me that people don’t simply see it in its raw simplicity.

  20. Harriet on May 23, 2015 at 20:40

    Thanks for this update. I’ve vaguely followed Jimmy off and on for years. I feel for those who cannot change, but won’t put any energy into them.

    I need to focus on what works. Low carb left me with problems. Adding more carbs have helped improve them, though I still have a way to go. I have started to look around PHD website. I was particularly interested in several comments that suggested that 15 pound weight increases after adding starch back in were common but that after a year or so the weight again drops off. The former has happened though perhaps I have more improvements to make before I get the weight loss. As soon as I try to restrict my dietary intake all hell breaks out with my hormones. I know my thyroid is dicey, but so, it seems are other hormones. I suspect I have to make some further changes, though not sure what else to do. Will keep reading.

  21. Wenchypoo on May 24, 2015 at 06:47

    As far as I can tell, he’s living off the fees he charges for advertising on his website(s), AND he just undid his Low Carb Conversations page by moving everything over to his personal blog page. I’ve also noticed the number of ads on his page(s) has increased, seemingly with no attention to the quality of the products he’s endorsing!

    I notice he’s also spending an inordinate amount of time duplicating his efforts on social media–sure, it’s free, but why limit yourself to 140 characters when FB has no such limits? And why spend the time posting the exact same stuff to both places…AND his personal blog?

    I once asked him where he thought all this business of science slowly catching up to the knowledge we now have from the various doctors he has interviewed, and research he has posted–where do we go from here? What’s next, or rather, what WILL BE next when everybody else has caught up?

    I got no answer. I think he knows he’ll end up being left behind, as the rest of us march on with our own bio-hacking experiments.

    • Bret on May 24, 2015 at 08:37

      Nothing is next, Wenchypoo. Zero-carb ketogenic is the end all, be all pinnacle of dietary enlightenment. In fact, there’s really no point in doing further research.

      Sheesh, which reminds me, the other day I listened to Jimmy’s most recent Latest in Paleo interview (from Aug 2014), and Jimmy mentioned that he is starting to have trouble tolerating non-starchy vegetables. Non-starchy vegetables! But no trace of an admission that his diet is causing that. Must have been those Little Debbie snack cakes from 15 years ago still causing new issues today.

      I don’t mean to sound nasty. Jimmy’s lost grip on reality doesn’t make me personally angry as it seems to make others. More like sad. Paul wrote the following deep in the comment section of that PHD post:

      Please, folks – don’t call names or make ad hominem attacks on Jimmy. He faces an extraordinarily difficult problem: to accept carbs, he not only has to give up long-held beliefs, but he also may lose his livelihood, and the persona of “lowcarbman” that has become his personal identity. This must be like being on Calvary for him, a sort of death. Now I think he’s a talented guy and would do well after being “born again,” but it probably doesn’t look that way from where he stands. In order to make that leap you need faith and a willingness to die for truth. Not many could do it. I hope Jimmy can.

      I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but Jimmy probably deserves more sympathy than disparagement. He may be raking in the dough right now by promoting VLC/KG, but it is only a matter of time before that changes. That is, if he doesn’t change as well.

    • TR on May 24, 2015 at 12:04

      Paul Jaminet. Always the Gentleman.

    • Wenchypoo on May 27, 2015 at 05:50

      The dough is coming via tax write-offs as well as sponsorships and ad fees–everybody who speaks on his cruises or seminars gets to write off their expenses, making this a very lucrative money machine. You ever notice how Mark Sisson seems to be EVERYWHERE these days–Paleo stuff, Primal stuff, and even Jimmy’s stuff? Yep–tax write-offs for being a guest speaker.

  22. 0Angel0 on May 24, 2015 at 11:39

    When I read Jimmy Moore’s ridiculous review of his free luxury vacation I actually felt bad for him. He should know better than to come at his intellectual betters with nonsense like that. In his own unique soft spoken way Paul Jaminet just ate him for lunch and spit him out. LOL

  23. laura on May 25, 2015 at 04:54

    So ironic that at least 8 years ago Jimmy threw the Zero Carb followers off his forum.

  24. Dan on May 26, 2015 at 17:30

    At this point, I’m operating on the theory that Jimmy has developed an addiction to dietary fat and that keeping carbs out of the picture is how he justifies it. I really wonder if he would begin exhibiting symptoms of withdrawal if the fat were suddenly cut out of his diet.

  25. MissMcGillicuddy on May 26, 2015 at 20:29

    Jimmy’s true intentions have always been clear (at least to me).
    From his very first book, in which he resorted to public begging. I wondered if having been so involved in organized religion, it just came naturally (the public begging).
    And then there’s always been the conflict of interest between his forum and forum sponsors. Time and time again, posters would point out the false claims made by these low carb food manufacturers and he’d just brush it off, never responding directly.
    Huckster is as huckster does.

  26. Wenchypoo on May 27, 2015 at 06:10

    And I noticed very recently that his podcast guests are starting to resemble a merry-go-round of LC reinforcement, with the exact same guests going on cruise after cruise with nothing new to add to the LC scene. Same people, same info–why do we need to tune in at all? We’ve heard it all before!

    Then he peppers his post-cruise summer schedule with repeats, followed by audio from his cruises (loaded with same old-same old), so he’s basically already losing the race for new knowledge–unless this is the end staring him in the face. I quit tuning in because of the repetition.

    The whole thing has become the U.S.S. Tax Write-Off circle-jerk for a whole lot of people.

  27. Robin on May 27, 2015 at 17:40

    I was a listener/reader of the various Jimmy Moore podcasts and social media posts until recently, although I had been tapering off. I think it was the one with the woman who was on the Biggest Loser that was the nail in the coffin for me. The whole thing just sounded to me like a bunch of fat apologist propaganda, and I say this as someone who still has about 55-70 pounds to go before I get to a “normal” weight. (IMHO, HAES etc are some of the most destructive things I’ve heard. Love yourself but don’t be an idiot.) I’ve been low carb/very low carb since August and have been successful but have recently taken heed of the warnings of staying too low for too long, especially as a woman. The information here and on other sites that have a more balanced view has been enlightening.

    Jimmy always felt….slick, but he had good guests who usually had good information. Lately, not so much. This most most recent turnabout closes the book on Jimmy for me. I’m trying to be healthy, and I can’t possibly follow the lead of someone who is faaaaaar from “the picture of health,” and seems so unwilling to consider that knowledge progresses.

    BTW, resistant starches + proper probiotics has been a game changer in terms of how I feel, thank you.

  28. edster on May 31, 2015 at 20:18

    Just been listening to the latest LLVLC podcast with Malcolm Kendrick analysing the extensive panel of tests Jimmy has had done. Kudos to Jimmy for letting it all hang out there and be willing to experiment on himself. Kendrick seems a pretty switched on guy too.

    • Richard Nikoley on May 31, 2015 at 22:01

      What does “switched on” mean? Does it mean that if you have about 15-25% of your test results out of range of normal people with average lifespan in 70s, that a popular LC-ish doc (Brit for drama and effect) comes on and proclaimes you are “thriving” on your idiotic thing that gained you about 100 pounds.

      If so, shame on Kendrick, suborning harming people.

    • edster on June 1, 2015 at 19:58

      Perhaps. They were pretty open discussing the data (I haven’t a clue about the veracity of their analysis so can’t judge whether they were fudging things) and Kendrick seemed to be genuinely puzzled about the measures in light of Jimmy’s substantial weight gain. It’ll be interesting to see how this unfolds if he does go ahead and get more tests done and shares his food diary with everyone. What if he find something in the data, experiments and implements a good solution? Can he overcome his cognitive biases, vested interests and ego to pull this off? We’ll just have to wait and see, we might learn something in the process (even if it’s don’t be in chronic ketosis).

    • edster on June 4, 2015 at 19:00

      @Ray, thanks for the catch. D’oh, my bad (big red face!), too much information, too many opinions to keep on top of, internet attention deficit disorder.

    • Ray on June 4, 2015 at 11:27

      You have screwed up Edster. Dr. Malcom Kendrick has nothing to do with that.

      The show you meant to link is LLVLC-961-kelly

    • David on August 1, 2015 at 03:58

      I finally listened to that interview, around the 1 hour, 2 minute point he claims, “I’ve never been a dogmatic person, I’m open to change if change is going to make it better”. And he has the nerve to call Paul Jaminet dogmatic.

    • Bret on August 1, 2015 at 13:36

      And he has the nerve to call Paul Jaminet dogmatic.

      At first I was surprised a gentle fellow like PJ would post such a direct attack on JM. But once I saw how belittling and dishonest JM was in his testimonial, it made perfect sense.

      Paul’s retort was extremely witty, by the way. He played the whole situation brilliantly, disguising his well placed rhetorical barbs with his characteristic appearance of innocence & humility. I have a new kind of respect for Paul after this episode.

    • Bret on August 3, 2015 at 06:53

      And yet these fat cells didn’t stop him from (briefly) becoming no kidding slim back in early 2013 at the end of his initial year of ketosis.

      I wonder if Jimmy has seen Penn Jillette’s 105-lb weight loss story. The strategy…total vegan amid a huge calorie deficit. From what I have read, Penn eats rice to constitute the bulk of his calories. By the VLC enterprise’s insistence, this approach should not have led to that outcome. Same with Bill Clinton.

      Time will tell if Penn keeps the weight off. Jimmy deserves credit for becoming so slim two years ago, but his results reversed with supposedly no change in his diet. Anyone else looking at his situation would say the diet needs to change, but Jimmy instead is grasping at every questionable straw he can think of.

    • David on August 3, 2015 at 01:59

      JM just did a follow up interview with Christopher Kelly, on his Nourish Balance Thrive podcast. His dietary changes since the test results: adding in bone broth, more grass fed meat, more vegetables and less dairy
      So no safe starches.
      Stress is making him fat and all those fat cells from when he was 410 pounds.
      He also mentioned putting on another 5lbs since making these diet changes.

    • v on August 3, 2015 at 07:34

      bret said: “ vegan amid a huge calorie deficit…” i believe if you are not taking in many calories, you are not producing much insulin. isn’t that consistent with some VLC proponents who point to high insulin as one step in the chain to becoming overweight/obese?

    • Bret on August 3, 2015 at 08:59

      You are correct, v. But most of the VLC proponents I ever hear from insist that the rice provides a glycemic load that overwhelms the calorie deficit and that the prolonged calorie restriction itself (1,000 per day total intake for 330-lb Penn) would “shut down the metabolism” and thwart any potential for fat loss.

    • David on August 3, 2015 at 17:44

      Another example would be the potato diet, which seems to be an effective way to break out of weight loss plateaus.

    • FrenchFry on August 4, 2015 at 05:22

      Hey v.

      Excess weight does not have much to do with insulin, in case you thought so. I eat a lot of blood sugar level “spiking” foods, I am not starving and yet, I am lean. My metabolism is working fine. Why ? Because unlike fat, protein and carbs are tightly regulated. If you eat too much proteins, you will burn the excess amino acid, if you eat too much carbs, once your glycogen stores are full, you will burn the rest (and de novo lipogenesis does not count as it is highly inefficient in humans, and the little fat created thus is anyway oxidized right then). But when it comes to fat, there is no such tight regulation: you can store a huge amount, we suck at regulating how much. So if I were you, I’d forget about the false logic claiming that insulin leads to obesity. Far from it actually … but it is up to you to dig it, it would take way too long for me summarize what plenty of researchers have studied and published.

  29. Charles on June 9, 2015 at 08:02

    Jimmy has f*cked up his metabolism so badly, his N=1 experiments are relevant only to a tiny minority of others (if any), and not in a good way. The more damaged your metabolism is, for whatever reason, genetic or epigenetic, the less useful your state of health and lifestyle is as a model for others or for figuring any of this stuff out. He was probably always an outlier, given his history, and has only become more so lately. At some level, he must know that, and that has to be hard to live with, and almost impossible to accept and change, as Paul intimates.

  30. Bret on June 9, 2015 at 09:44

    Interesting post from Tom Naughton along related lines.

    Emphasis mine:

    So when I found myself poking a newly-rotund cat belly, I checked the ingredients on the bag of dry food. The first ingredient listed is chicken. That’s good. The next three ingredients are pea powder, barley and brown rice. Well, I wouldn’t call those bad, but it’s clear the dry cat food is considerably more carb-laden than the canned stuff.
    I wondered to myself, Did Little Man become Tubby Man because we inadvertently jacked up the carbohydrate content of his diet?

    Naaaawww, that can’t be. Legions of internet cowboys have informed me (and everyone on the Fat Head Facebook group) that macronutrients are irrelevant. If you get fat, it’s because you eat too @#$%ing much, too @#$%ing often, period. It’s a simple matter of ingesting too many calories.

    Therefore, it was obvious that our Little Man – who for nearly two years had exercised the willpower to limit his calories and maintained a sleek, feline body as a result – was developing a serious flaw in his character. He’d become a glutton without any of us noticing until it was too late. I don’t track his daily activity, but I’ll bet he was also getting lazy and moving less … fewer unexplained mad-dashes around the house and across the top of all the furniture, perhaps.

    • Richard Nikoley on June 9, 2015 at 10:11

      Well I respectfully disagree with friend Tom on this. And on so many levels.

      But, I simply will not debate it any more. People get fat because they eat too much, too often. Now, can weird processed food (consider how OFF cat kibble is compared to their natural fare—in essence, he’s trying to make an argument by means of a cat eating a 100% “McDonald’s” diet) screw up an animal metabolism/gut biome such that they eat too much too often? Sure.

      I think Tom will get there, though. I believe he’s been slowly liquidating his positions in LC dogma for some time, while I’ve been selling short.

    • Bret on June 9, 2015 at 10:59

      I suspect you both believe very similar things and differ mostly in your disposition/friendliness toward certain movements/isms vs others.

      I believe he’s been slowly liquidating his positions in LC dogma for some time, while I’ve been selling short.

      I think that analogy is spot on. I also think your and his levels of optimism regarding Jimmy Moore differ quite a bit, which is why I cited Tom’s post in this one. (Not agreeing or disagreeing with either…just observing.)

    • Richard Nikoley on June 9, 2015 at 11:20

      Well yea.

      Dumping Jimmy More—whether you do so publicly or just fade out—is an essential element on the path.

      Such a relief when you do. Cognitive dissonance is just way too damn high. I think I gave him a fair shot for a lot of years and took a lot of heat for doing so. Never took him lightly, no pun intended. :)

  31. Count de Monet on January 18, 2016 at 09:46

    Great post, Richard. I haven’t read your blog in quite awhile and got to missing your writing. I hope all is well with you and yours.

  32. VW on May 10, 2017 at 10:39

    From the Perfect Health blog, where Jimmy’s bitch-ass backstabbing was addressed:

    “Jimmy wrote:

    One thing I was especially looking forward to at the Perfect Health Retreat was learning more about the ketogenic version of Paul’s Perfect Health Diet. He has often noted that there are certain situations where ketones can play a therapeutic role in health–but there was nary a mention of ketosis at all in the hours upon hours of lectures…. [W]hy not share the information about how you recommend going keto for those who do need it?”

    NEED it. Those who NEED to “go keto.”

    “(Interestingly, Paul would not allow me to give a guest lecture about ketosis as a bonus class for the attendees, but he did let me share a half-hour presentation on cholesterol based on my 2013 book Cholesterol Clarity).”

    • Richard Nikoley on May 10, 2017 at 10:43

      Yea. very “interesting.”

      For one, Paul is smart enough to understand the scam. It’s for “athletes” (like Moore…what an athletic trainer).

      If keto was generally appropriate for professional athletic performance, we’d have known about it decades ago.

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