Can You Win a Debate?
No!
Not when it’s couched that way. People only come to your side when you’re not personally trying to persuade them; when it’s not in the context of: ‘I’m right and you’re wrong, and the only acceptable outcome is that you admit it.’
Rather, what you do is chip away at foundations, with a long view.
One of my side projects, since 1991, has been to undermine religious belief. At that time, my whole family and lots of extended family were “born again” fundies. I’d gone to divinity school after initial formation in a Fundamentalist Baptist Church School, ’79, but had a very bad experience there; Tennessee Temple University, Chattanooga.
I moved on, still faintly “believing” the catechism, but by no means practicing it. Real life in those days was a kick. If living in a co-ed dorm in 1980-82 at a state university (Oregon State, Finley Hall) is wrong, I don’t wanna be right. :)
Initially, I displayed the hubris on the matter one would expect (at least from me). But in the last decade or so, It’s been relegated to a much gentler approach, with different targets: the kids.
Happy to say that I have a burgeoning atheist community amongst the young, both sides of my family.
I do gloat. I tell my parents and brothers that I’m the devil in their midst. Still get invited to parties, too.
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Free The Animal is an eclectic writing project about everything since November 2003. 23 years, 5,500 posts, 5 million words.
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I appreciate you sharing this. My sister is filling my nieces and nephews with this crap and I wonder for their future. I try and plug in as best I can from 2000km away and hope with time reason will prevail.
“My sister is filling my nieces and nephews with this crap and I wonder for their future.”
Here’s the deal. Use what they do against them.
Back in the 70s even, they were smart enough to have lots of gatherings. For some reason, it wansn’t OK to promote Hollywood by just going to a movie. But, it was somehow OK to rent a VHS (this just came on line, early 80s) and watch it as a church group.
We were all so very submissive, then, and damn it, but I always wanted to be a good son and respect my parents and not cause them any crap.
It wasn’t like I was biding my time, but when I got on my own, other side of the country, stuff changed quickly for me.
Dan, you can never force it. Show them fun, freedom of thought, liberation. In gentle ways. Direct vitriol towards the adults.
This sets up a conflict that takes years to resolve, and you’ll have the kids.
I guarantee it. Be the clever devil in the midst.
Thanks, heaps.
Will report back in 10-15yrs.
Definitely hearts and minds with the kids. So hard to not strangle the parents with the “Why did god give daddy asthma?” questions.
I too was sent to church group pizza nights as a kid, I remember watching the Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie at just such a gathering. There is a church group for everything!
Your task, Dan, is to engage minds, allowing them to think for themselves.
Yea, a quip here and there can do wonders. The adults will ignore it. The kids will hear it.
Set yourself up, gently, as the guy who never does what they do. For those adults, the answer is always JESUS (either with a smile or forlorn look; it’s catch all because its the premise—JESUS can explain everything). It’s not love or hate Jesus. See, you can’t hate Jesus; the handicapped “thinking” is baked into the cake and it’s tantamount to saying you hate chocolate cake and what kid is going to listen then?
You have to be a clever little devil.
Don’t hate on Jesus to the kids. Their parents just love him to pieces—as much as the kids love Mother Goose, and Flying Unicorns that Fart Rainbows.
Be patient. The kids are far smarter and aware than the parents, ultimately. This is the way of proper evolution and the reason we sit here.
Show them fun, freedom of thought, liberation.
I wish I had known about this option decades ago. It took 20 years to divest myself of the mind control that went with religion. However I also needed an alternative interpretation for the positives of the “god experience” which I didn’t want to lose. Very few are prepared to do a gentle talk through so the person being challenged doesn’t have to lose face along the way as they explore better options.