The things I listed are not “ideals”. They are the VALUES that modern Western Civ was built on. They basically came out of the Reformation and then the Enlightenment after Christians decided that the Divine Right of Kings and the excesses of the Catholic Church were a steaming pile of shit foisted on the rest of us by a few charismatic and/or power-hungry megalomaniacs. That’s an oversimplification in the interest of time, but that’s the gist.
These values are always going to be imperfectly applied because humans are by nature imperfect, and also because some humans are hypocrites. They espouse these ideals without believing in them, hoping to ultimately subvert them for their own gain. Sometimes they parrot them without understanding the real significance of what several centuries of simply attempting to attain them has brought to our existence. But imperfection is no reason to stop striving for perfection.
As a result of an imperfect application of Western values, some dummies see only a culture of greedy corporate barons, corrupt politicians/government, commercialization, and a polluted earth as the outcome.
But what I see is a culture where almost anybody can get ahead and be prosperous who’s willing to work hard and never give up…regardless of race, sex, or physical handicap. That’s not true in many places of the world, especially Muslim countries.
I see a culture where women are not chattels and can do what we want with free choice.
I see a culture where childrean are not exploited and pressed into slavery.
I see a culture where the rape of female children and the sexual exploitation of young girls is not only illegal, it’s anathema.
I see a culture where to be homosexual is not cause for shunning, stoning, torture, or death.
I see a culture where an artist is free to disrespect the major icon of the dominant religion by dropping it into a jar of urine, taking a picture, publishing the picture, not fearing that explosives will be sent to his home or workplace, or that his life is in danger. Instead of fearing for life and limb, the artist is feted and celebrated as daring and cutting edge.
Of course these freedoms were not always true of Western culture; these things are only true now because of centuries of even imperfect striving to implement the Western values I mentioned above.
And of course Western culture still isn’t perfect; bad things happen every day because there are just a lot of shitty, stupid humans in the world who couldn’t grasp the concept of a higher value or a more just way of being if it slapped them in the face. But to dismiss Western values as irrelevant because they don’t make everything perfect is basically throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It’s foolish and short-sighted. At this juncture in history, it’s also very dangerous.
If you think the real issue for people like me is that Muslims are going to come here and take our jobs or whatever, you’re sadly mistaken. It’s the fact that their culture is fundamentally different than ours, in the most basic of respects.
They don’t believe in equality; they believe in dhimmitude.
They don’t believe in freedom, or freedom of choice; they believe that women and children are essentially the property of men, that homosexuality is a sin against God that should be wiped from the earth, that sex outside of marriage is a legally punishable crime, etc.
But the worst thing is most of them don’t believe in secular government, with application of the law applying equally to all; they believe in sharia law, which is law directly taken from their sacred religious text, and that can ONLY be interpreted and applied through the filter of the religion of Islam, for the benefit of Muslims. Under sharia law women and dhimmis (that’s you and me, GF) are second-class citizens and are not worthy of much consideration. And it is NOT only the Islamic radicals that believe in the application of sharia law. Basically, sharia is the polar opposite of Western law based on Western values, and sharia is so fundamentally inseparable from the religion of Islam itself that most Muslims are fine with all but the very most fundamental, radical interpretation of it.
And please don’t equate the concept of sharia with the fact that many Western laws have their foundation in the Ten Commandments and Judeo-Christian morality. I can see it coming already, and that tired old argument is reductionist, childish, and not worthy of consideration or discussion. Judeo-Christian morality is just fundamental and most humans share the same morality. You don’t steal your neighbors stuff, you don’t fuck your neighbor’s husband, you don’t kill your neighbor, etc. The Ten Commandments generally refer to the things that cause a lot of problems in any community if not adhered to, so they’re fairly universal values. The fact that we owe a cultural debt directly to them is mostly an accident of history. We’d probably have hit upon them anyhow, even if not so eloquently worded.
If Muslims were to come to Western countries like the Irish did the U.S. in the 19th century and assimilate (IIRC from my history, the Irish backlash was over within 40 years because they assimilated very well), all would be well. I’m fine with that. The Irish didn’t want to take over, and they came from the same value system that spawned the U.S. They just wanted a chance to prosper and get along.
But Muslims don’t seem to want to assimilate. Instead, they tend to form tight communities where sharia law is practiced openly and local law is openly flouted.
Do some googling about some of the no-man’s-land neighborhoods in Germany and I think Sweden and a few other Nordic countries. They’re having a real problem.
Google “Paris and Muslim immigration” for some info on the problems they’ve been having there for years.
Do some googling about some things going on in the Muslim community in Detroit, Michigan here in the U.S.
Check out this article http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089 and google “Rotherham rape” for some info on a corrosive, long-standing problem with long-term, insular Muslim communities in your own neck of the woods.
Islam is by doctrine an expansionist, conquering religion. I don’t think most Muslims want to assimilate; they want to take over. They want Islam to be the dominant religion, if for no other reason than they have been steeped in the concept of dhimmitude. They want sharia to be the dominant system of law.
THAT is my problem with Islam and the current crisis. It ain’t skin color. It ain’t the fact that I think they’re inferior or will steal my job or whatever. :eyeroll: It’s the fact that I strongly suspect that most of them, even the moderates, believe I would be better off if I was not a dhimmi filled with the ideals and governed by the laws of the infidel. They don’t want assimilation, they want to change the place they are going, and they will change me and my culture if they can. I won’t roll over and let that happen. Paris or Rotherham in my neck of the woods? Uh-uh.
And I don’t care that Western people have exported culture and been imperialist in the past. That wasn’t me and I refuse to be held accountable for the actions of dead people I never even met, and likewise to pay for their sins. Ditto just because I happen to share a skin color. I repudiate anyone who thinks I should. Western culture ain’t perfect but by and large I’m proud of it. I’m definitely proud to be a part of it.
I’m not a terribly eloquent writer any more, in that I have trouble actually writing out the more complex thoughts I have. I am just now recovering my health after years of debilitating depression and fatigue, and my cognitive function simply isn’t up to par. Some days are better than others but I’ll never be the great thinker or writer that I wish I was.
But I hope that explains where I’m coming from a little better. It’s just an imperfect written representation of some of the things I think. Please know, however, that I don’t really care if you (or anyone) agrees with it. It’s the truth.
Now life calls. I have stuff to do and won’t communicate in this thread any more. I’ll read responses out of curiosity, but I’m done with the argument.
I think it’s wonderful. What do all you girls think?