Metaphysics
I have gained what I consider to be some valuable insights, and those mainly have to do with how one handles one’s ego. Whether how that has influenced me in what might be considered the intended way may be another story, but I’ll get to that later. For the time being, I wanted to throw something out there with respect to metaphysics.
The Eastern traditions don’t really subscribe to the anthropomorphic, personal God we know so well in the West. By many ways of thinking, here, they would be atheists. Of course, that was one element of curiosity for me — going back to the five years I lived in Japan in the 80s. There is nonetheless a struggle to serve God, but "god" is really, for lack of a better description, "consciousness." The rub is that by consciousness, I think they mean something with a different nature than we do.
Anyway, here was a sent item from this morning. Wondering if anyone had any particular thoughts, insights, or flames.
I can artificially categorize four metaphysical models implicit in all of our discussions, loosely describes as follows:
1. Anthropomorphic, personal God.
2. Physical world (existence), and the world of being (consciousness) as two separate halves of reality (yours).
3. Physical world/existence (literally everything), out of which sprang consciousness/identity (Rand).
4. Physical world; consciousness is an illusion (materialism).
I think that there’s far less real difference between 2 and 3 than you think there is, and what differences there are, are pretty marginal. That’s on a metaphysical level. The derivative ideas lead you and Rand in opposite directions (revealing as to metaphysical importance), but I am finding in lots of the stuff I read at "What is Enlightenment" and elsewhere that there is enough divergence, beginning with number 2, that there are significant overlap with divergences from number 3. This is where I think Kimura is at, and it has significant appeal for me.
Yes. If you’re quick, you have already noted that in number 2, the implication is that "consciousness does not exist." I’ve not gotten a direct answer to that question, but that’s partly because I’m more interested in what they think they mean, rather than strict definition and a tautological ‘gotcha.’
One refreshing element of all this is a clear and explicit acknowledgment that society is shaped by ideas, and ideas are the product of the very fundamentals (the title of the post).
Any comments?
WHAT IT'S ABOUT AND HOW IT WORKS
Free The Animal is an eclectic writing project about everything since November 2003. 23 years, 5,500 posts, 5 million words.
It's a paid membership blog. Most posts are free and public, but only paid members can comment. What determines whether it's free or paid is when I publish. Monday through Friday, free and public. Saturday and Sunday, for paid members. That's it. Membership info here.
I've not gotten a direct answer to that question,
What question is that? It's not clear from the snippet you've given. I don't get the implication from #2 that consciousness does not exist, instead, I take it to mean that consciousness is entirely subjective, and that it is separate from the physical world.
Your correspondent mischaracterizes "materialism" in #4, but I suspect that is just a nit, and not what you are looking for.
As to #2 and #3, unless something entirely different is meant by #2, it seems that the difference between the two is one of perspective. From "in here", there certainly does appear to be a divide, and it may even be epistemologically appropriate to acknowledge it. From a perspective of "out there", there is no divide (#3) – consciousness is just another aspect of the physical world (which is what materialism really means).
There is nonetheless a struggle to serve God, but "god" is really, for lack of a better description, "consciousness." The rub is that by consciousness, I think they mean something with a different nature than we do.
What I get from a cursory reading of Zen Buddhism is that they look towards a "unity", the universe as a completely integrated whole. In that sense, they get a lot right, but I think it breaks down when they look at it as something that is accessible – as such – to consciousness.
Interestingly to my recent line of thinking, they go on to see – and embrace – the nihilistic consequence of that idea, that when consciousness does fully understand the unity, it essentially ceases to function. They get, if I'm understanding it correctly, that contextlessness is non identity. The idea that intentional contradictions or meaninglessness (such as Koans) can get one closer to that state would fit with that idea.
But whereas they see it as some kind of meta-existence, I see non-identity as implying non-existence.
Sorry, Rich, I should have known that referencing ZB would bring out the nutjobs via Google.
Huh. Typepad must have had a hiccup, because I didn't even know of this comment (I get email notice of comments) until I got notice of yours. I'd have been tempted to delete it, as it's clearly just a cut/paste job, but since you've properly characterized it, I guess I'll let it stand, for now.
By the way, I still have a reply I owe you. But it might end up being a new entry.
The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.
The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.
Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.
If there are no gaps there is no emotion.
Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.
When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.
There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.
People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.
Emotion ends.
Man becomes machine.
A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.
A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.
A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.
FAST VISUALS /WORDS MAKE SLOW EMOTIONS EXTINCT.
SCIENTIFIC /INDUSTRIAL /FINANCIAL THINKING DESTROYS EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.
A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.
To read the complete article please follow either of these links :
earthnewswire.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=89&page=viewtopic&t=11>EarthNe…
sushil_yadav