Mark Sisson Jumps On Board With Resistant Starch

In today’s Mark’s Daily Apple we find, Dear Mark: Resistant Starch, Zinc Deficiency, and Something New.

This is what it’s all about, folks. Changing your mind when exposed to new information.

Resistant starch is a starch that resists digestion by regular digestive enzymes, passing through to the colon for fermentation by gut flora. In a post way back in the day, I addressed resistant starch and lumped it in with other prebiotic fibers like inulin, with the reasoning being that while it was certainly helpful and important, it was not some essential, magical nutrient. It seems I underestimated it. Resistant starch offers some interesting properties unique among other prebiotics. [emphasis added]

Well there you go, and that’s why Mark enjoys the tremendous following he does. Honesty goes a long way with people. The great thing about being wrong or incomplete about something is that once you correct that, you’re closer to being right, which means better for yourself and better for those you’re influencing.

Mark adds, with a number of links to this blog:

Unmodified, raw potato starch is probably the easiest way to get resistant starch, since each tablespoon contains about 8 grams of RS. Richard Nikoley has spearheaded the promotion of resistant starch via unmodified potato starch as a way to approximate or emulate the ancestral microbiome over at his blog. He’s been covering the benefits and relaying lots of anecdotes from readers who’ve seen great improvements in sleep quality and blood sugar control, even when diabetic or while remaining in ketosis). He even came up with a way to make mashed potatoes that don’t spike your glucose. Interesting, compelling stuff.

Thank you, sir! So go check out the whole post and the references he links to. And for those interested in the whole collection of posts on the topic of Resistant Starch here, just hit the tag.


Since Covid killed my Cabo San Lucas vacation-rental business in 2021, this is my day job. I can't do it without you. Memberships are $10 monthly, $20 quarterly, or $65 annually. Two premium coffees per month. Every membership helps finance this work I do, and if you like what I do, please chip in. No grandiose pitches.

149 Comments

  1. Gordon on November 11, 2013 at 11:37

    Very nice. From the way he explains his prior reasoning (implying that individual progress is a rational, not authoritative, process), to the way he updates his judgment (implying freedom), to his acknowledgement of your efforts (implying honesty AND self-esteem), Mark has produced another virtuous and helpful piece. That post will help more readers *through just the experience of the reading* than Michelle’s “plate” (or whatever the hell it was she pushed on children) did.

    Kudos for spearheading this, Richard. I’m about to start a potato starch experiment myself, so we’ll see what it does for me.

  2. tatertot on November 11, 2013 at 11:43

    Man, I am just beaming! Thanks for keeping on top of this RS stuff, Richard, and promoting it only like you could do!

    Look at these comments from MDA:

    I have eaten my way through about 2 lbs of raw, unmodified potato starch in the past 3 weeks, around 4 TBSP a day, in cool or lukewarm food and drink, plus dehydrated (very green and hard) plantain chips dried at about 95 F for 12 hours (thank you, TaterTot!!!). I eat the plantain chips kind of like you would ritz crackers with butter, creamed coconut or nut butter sandwiched in between. Way easier than making a baked primal cracker from nut or coconut flours and probably healthier. I have noticed even at vlc ketogenic carb levels (excluding the amount from the RS), the difficulty going #2 has gone away, but be sure you will have stomach pains if you try to load up on RS coming off of a no starch vlc diet. There is real adjustment period, like Mark and others have said, but if you take it slow, it’s worth it. I went out for my first jog in a very long time and was able to go for about 30 minutes without feeling like I wanted to take a break (albeit, I jog very slow, like most peoples fast walks) ;) I have an easier time getting to sleep, and dream movie type dreams- crazy and fun. I hope what I’ve had to say helps motivate people to take the plunge with resistant starch. It’s good stuff!
    Kati wrote on November 11th, 2013″

    I’ve been doing a cycling approach with the potato starch for about 6 months now–1-2 weeks on, 1 week off, and it’s been really good. Definitely a noticeable adaptation period, whether you’re sensitive to FODMAPS or not, so be ready for that. I’ve been experimenting with opposite-week cycling of fermented foods as well (sauerkraut, kombucha, yogurt), since having both the pre- and probiotics every day can become a bit voluminous…
    Graham wrote on November 11th, 2013″

    I’ve noticed a few things really improved my Fasting Blood Sugar. The first two were primal eating, and magnesium supplementation. I think the magnesium really helped a lot. I also lowered by iron stores through blood donation. Even with all those, my FBG would still be in the high 90s or low 100s when I measured it, and it could spike to 160 or so after a higher carb meal. When I added the resistant starch, in the form of Bob’s Red Mill Potato starch, it lowered FBG to the low 90s/high 80s area, and when I tested a fairly high carb meal, noticed it only spiked to 125. I certainly think there is value in adding some to your diet,
    John wrote on November 11th, 2013″

    But then it starts:

    “Does anyone know if Arrowroot starch would be as good as potato starch?
    Josh wrote on November 11th, 2013”

    As Richard would say, ‘click the f@cking link, dumb-ass!’

  3. EF on November 11, 2013 at 12:54

    As RN has pointed out, one of things I love about RS is it highlights the shortcomings of VLC. I was over at Jimmy Moore’s website the other day and was reading the results of some of his recent health tests. Even though he eats a high keto VLC diet, his body burns 37% carbs. That blew me away. Even if you are not ingesting carbs, your body makes them because they are required and some systems prefer them. While there may be no “essential carbs” clearly there are “preferential carbs” for your body. Chalk one up for a diverse real foods diet (e.g. PHD and Weston Price).

    And, yes, I understand that RS is not a traditional carb but it highlights that a healthy body needs more than just fat and protein.

  4. yien on November 11, 2013 at 13:46

    ’ I understand that RS is not a traditional carb but it highlights that a healthy body needs more than just fat and protein.’

    L2 mitochondrial ancestral populations currently foraging near Olduvai Gorge, and within trekking distance of the Gate of Grief consistently eat 15 to 30 grams of RS a day from legume roots and tubers. Have been for at least hundreds of thousands of years.

    Not sure how ’ traditional’ people want their diet to be?

  5. EF on November 11, 2013 at 13:57

    I meant not traditional in that it is not converted into glucose and dumped into the bloodstream.

  6. yien on November 11, 2013 at 16:06

    I love this, from the comment section of the MDA post – commentator “dave””

    “Please ALWAYS properly ferment potatoes before cooking them. There are so many reasons for the proper fermentation of potatoes before consuming. Traditional cultures never ate potatoes, grains, legumes, etc. without first preparing with 100% anaerobic fermentation methods.”

    Perhaps “dave” should head over to humanfoodproject and check this out:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=565763050175930&set=a.320702151348689.74407.235960469822858&type=1

    Reminds my why I have never bothered to post a comment at MDA…

  7. tatertot on November 11, 2013 at 16:22

    I’d never heard of fermenting potatoes, either, except for making vodka. Apparently it is a real thing, though. Boil potatoes, mash with yogurt or kefir, add salt, store at room temp 2 days. Here’s an article and video…http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/video-fermented-potatoes/

  8. Steven on November 11, 2013 at 18:41

    I have been RS’ing since the moment tatertot (thank you) and Richard bloged about it. I feel good! I feel mighty good!!

    LC and VLC are great ways to kick off a change in lifestyle. A great reset button. But what is interesting is that RS can actually help in that big reset.

    Thank to you both.

  9. tatertot on November 12, 2013 at 12:45

    Just read this comment on MDA:

    “Thanks Tatertot, I’ve been reading yours and others very informative comments on FTA, very helpful info. I bought the Bob’s RM PS today, going to start slow like Mark says. The more I learn about my 90%, the more I want to help them be all they can be.

    Read more: ”

    I say eat potato starch 1000 times, Richard says eat potato starch 2000 times, she still doesn’t eat potato starch. Mark Sisson says it once, and she’s all over that shit…wtf?

  10. Ulfric Douglas on November 12, 2013 at 12:56

    “Mark Sisson says it once, and she’s all over that shit…wtf?”
    Doh, he gets his tits out for the promo pics! that’s why.

  11. EF on November 12, 2013 at 13:17

    Yeah but there’s nothing like a paleo or LC guru in a sports bra….nothing screams diet credibility like lycra.

  12. shtove on November 13, 2013 at 01:01

    Been taking the starch for a few months and liking it. Here’s one observation I haven’t seen from anyone else.

    Most days I take to work a mug of store-bought milk kefir + potato starch (2 heaped Tbsps), mixed with a couple of egg yolks + turmeric + salt + black pepper.

    The starch stays in solution so, when I take the lid off the mug a few hours after preparation I don’t have to stir it up but just slug it down the hatch.

    One day I ran out of kefir and substituted water instead. Result: the starch formed a sticky sludge at the bottom of the mug and was difficult to stir back in.

    I wonder if that supports the idea that the starch does attach to the bacteria in the kefir. Otherwise I can’t see why milk would be a better solvent.

  13. tatertot on November 13, 2013 at 10:01

    @shtove – I had always been meaning to try mixing PS and kefir and leave out at room temp to see what happened, just never got around to it.

    That is pretty amazing that it stays in suspension. I know it settles out of water in mere minutes. Interesting. Thanks

  14. Joshua on November 13, 2013 at 11:04

    tatertot – “been reading” is so imprecise – for the past 6 months, or for the past 60 minutes?

    another interpretation of what Jen said is maybe she STARTED reading FTA after she read Mark’s post, and then after reading for a while, came back and wrote her post. But then I’m a bit of a Pollyanna and I like to think the best of people. :)

  15. Richard Nikoley on November 13, 2013 at 12:41

    You forgot “sees the world through rose-colored glasses.” :)

  16. Paleophil on November 13, 2013 at 19:46

    RN: “Well there you go, and that’s why Mark enjoys the tremendous following he does. Honesty goes a long way with people.”

    Yup, Mark’s openmindedness, honesty, humility and willingness to admit mistakes and correct them are admirable.

    Tatertot: “I’d never heard of fermenting potatoes, either, except for making vodka. Apparently it is a real thing, though. Boil potatoes, mash with yogurt or kefir, add salt, store at room temp 2 days. Here’s an article and video…link to thehealthyhomeeconomist.com”

    Yup, While Dave’s comment exaggerated the case, fermenting of tubers is a real thing all right, icluding among traditional societies. I tried that recipe and it was pretty good, though the potatoes still gave me problems, whereas unmodified potato starch only gives me benefits. I think part of the problem for me is that yogurt (at least the pasteurized kinds) also gives me minor problems.

  17. john on November 14, 2013 at 18:34

    I find that adding some micronised zeolite keeps the starch in suspension. Roughly 1:3. Anything with an opposite charge to the surface charge of the granule would probably help. (There’s probably phosphate groups near the outer surface of the starch granule).

  18. Richard Nikoley on November 14, 2013 at 18:47

    ….Fucking chemists.

  19. Wally on November 14, 2013 at 20:34

    Excuse me for asking but is tapioca flour and tapioca starch the same? Because I really would like to try RS.

  20. Mike Ede on November 15, 2013 at 02:57

    Fatty Acid Produced by Gut Bacteria Boosts the Immune System

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131113132202.htm

  21. Paleophil on November 15, 2013 at 04:03

    Tatertot Tim wrote this: “Tapioca starch is also called tapioca flour–it’s same thing. 1-2TBS/day, most days, seems to do the trick. More is not better, especially above 4TBS.”

  22. tatertot on November 15, 2013 at 07:57

    re: Tapioca Flour, yes same thing as tapioca starch, BUT, I don’t think it anywhere near as good an RS source as Potato Starch.

    Somebody dug up some info on the starch type and found it was a completely different composition of amylose to amylopectin ratio and the granule size was substantially smaller. Whether that is a problem, I don’t now.

    I’ve never seen a study on the RS content in tapioca starch, but I have seen several studies that list the RS content in cassava root, from which tapioca flour/starch is made, and it ranges from 50-80%. Cassava root is full of cyanide, and needs to be treated by boiling or sun-drying to get rid of the cyanide–it’s possible this process also destroys RS.

    In real life, when I use tapioca starch for a week, I get zero fartage and when I switch back to potato starch, it starts again. I have never checked BG after eating tapioca starch, maybe I should soon.

    The only other thing I have found close to potato starch is very green bananas, dried green plantains, and green banana flour.

    I’d say, play with tapioca starch if you want, but don’t count on it being a great RS source.

  23. tatertot on November 15, 2013 at 08:02

    @Mike Ede – Thanks for that link. One part I really liked:

    “Previous studies have shown that patients suffering from inflammatory bowel disease lack butyrate-producing bacteria and have lower levels of butyrate in their gut. However, butyrate’s anti-inflammatory properties were attributed to its role as main energy source for the cells lining the colon. This study is the first to provide a molecular basis for the role of butyrate on the production of regulatory T lymphocytes.”

  24. tatertot on November 15, 2013 at 08:04

    @john (the chemist) – yeah, that’s what I was thinking, too. Really…swear…I was.

  25. shtove on November 15, 2013 at 12:51

    @tatertot

    I guess you’re right about it being a suspension rather than a solution. And milk itself is a suspension too? Maybe that’s the reason the starch doesn’t settle – the granules have something to grab on to, but not necessarily the bacteria.

    BTW – I think I’ve thanked you before in passing, but no harm in repetition. Thanks.

  26. shtove on November 15, 2013 at 13:08

    Just saw the comment by John the “fucking chemist” – that makes sense.

  27. Richard Nikoley on November 15, 2013 at 13:15

    That was totally tongue in cheek, BTW and plus, I was trolling for one of my frequent commenters who’s a professional chemist. :)

  28. yien on November 15, 2013 at 17:58

    “In real life, when I use tapioca starch for a week, I get zero fartage and when I switch back to potato starch, it starts again.”

    Tim, you seem to be using fartage as a proxy for effectiveness?

    When I use Bob’s Red Mill All Purpose (garbanzo, potato, tapioca, sorghum, fava), I find a lot less fartage than just potato (alone) or just banana flour (alone). I have wondered if somehow this is not a good thing? and that a large combination is blinked to this? But I have never tried their tapioca flour, by itself.

    The Hadza eat, at least, half a dozen legume roots and a number of additional different tubers as a basic consistent 20% part of their diet year round.

  29. tatertot on November 15, 2013 at 21:14

    @yien – Actually, I’m using zero fartage as a sign for lack of effectiveness. If I take some potato starch on an empty stomach, I get very minimal gas, if any. If I’m eating other stuff, especially leafy or starchy foods, I will get some gas–nothing bad, just natural fermentation.

    Back-in-the-day, on a SAD and later an LC diet, I was well-known for my ability to clear rooms and was often banished to the spare bedroom. Since adding the potato starch, gas just seems natural now.

    Dried plantains have the exact same effect as potato starch for me. Tapioca starch just doesn’t seem to do much. I think I have a bag left, I will do some playing around next week with my BG monitor to see if it spikes BG, that should settle it. If it raises BG, it’s being absorbed as glucose in the small intestine. If there is no BG rise, it must be escaping to the large intestine as resistant starch. I’ll let you know what I find–if anyone else cares to try, that would be cool, too.

  30. Richard Nikoley on November 15, 2013 at 21:18

    I’d love for you to settle that, Tim.

    Taking needles to the fingers for science.

    I have to admit. I have to use the dealybobber at max setting to get a drop. I hate it.

  31. Spanish Caravan on November 15, 2013 at 23:22

    Hey, Tatertot! Good idea. I’ll test that with tapioca starch. I agree, I don’t think it’s doing much at all and it’s not the low amylose content. It just might not be “unmodified” as BRM’s potato starch is. I’ll check tomorrow and report back!

  32. Intrigued on November 18, 2013 at 10:54

    So here is a question regarding sources of RS. I do not eat potatoes due to problems with nightshade plants. I have found cassava as both tapicoa (produced from the starch of the cassava plant) and cassava flour (produced by cooking, drying and grinding cassava root to a fine powder) available to purchase. Which is the correct form to maximize the RS?

  33. tatertot on November 18, 2013 at 13:19

    @Intrigued – Tapioca pearls are definitely NOT RS. Tapioca Starch/Flour MAY have some RS. I was going to do a little test today, but forgot the tapioca starch. Check back tomorrow!

  34. Wally on November 18, 2013 at 14:59

    Tatertot I have the same concern as Intrigued, I have tried both Tapioca and Potato starch now, and it is clear that potato starch works way better but the potato starch will cause problems for those that have to avoid nightshades. Is there another, better, way of going about this?

  35. tatertot on November 18, 2013 at 15:13

    Wally – Plantains and green bananas for a concentrated, low carb dose, and then the usual lineup of beans, rice, and potatoes as tolerated.

    I get big, ugly, green plantains. Cut them in half lengthwise and again crosswise and peel. Then slice each quarter-section into thin tongue-shaped pieces. Salt/spice when wet if desired. Dry on a drying rack or screen of some sort with a fan on them. They will dry thoroughly in 12-24 hours and be just like saltine crackers. Each plantain contains about 50g of RS for planning purposes.

    Richard had another method for plantain chips cut cross-wise and dehydrated in the oven.

    Whatever you do, just don’t heat them much above 120-130 degrees. The cooler the better and airflow helps immensely.

    You can also buy ready-made plantain flour.

  36. Brad on November 18, 2013 at 16:54

    @Tater, I’m confused. I thought you/we determined that cassava/tapioca starch was high RS content a long time ago? Now you are un-clear again?

  37. tatertot on November 18, 2013 at 17:07

    Brad – yeah, I know, I know. Tapioca starch/flour has just been nagging at me for some reason. Did you try to see if it spiked your BG? I’m going to give it a shot tomorrow. If no spike–RS, if big spike–no RS. Sound fair?

  38. Brad on November 18, 2013 at 18:09

    Btw Tater, there are two primary types of Cassava root in Brazil and it’s likely similar in other countries:

    M. utilissima ~ in Brazil called “aipim”, “macaxeira”, or mandioca-doce (sweet cassava).
    M. esculenta ~ In Brazil called “mandioca-brava” or “mandioca-amarga” (brave cassava or bitter cassava, respectively)

    The first, Aipim/mandioca-doce can be cooked and eaten as you would a potatoe, and it’s my belief that this is the one that raw cassava/tapioca starch is made from. In Brazil the tapioca starch is called “Polvilho Doce” (sweet powder), also called “fécula de mandioca” (cassava starch) and it is in fact raw.

    The second one (bitter cassava) is the one used primarily for creating cassava flour where they process it to remove the cyanide.

    I’m not sure if those littel tapioca balls have been heated but I think not. I think different granule sizes of tapioca are made by just adding water and seiving or some other technique.

    references:
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandioca
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polvilho
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapioca

    • Jcsouto on January 1, 2014 at 12:20

      So, Brad, did you test it?

    • Adriana on January 20, 2014 at 18:26

      Brad in Colombia we have Almidon Agrio which is a fermented cassava starch. I wonder if this is the same as the brazilian amarga.

      I am curious how the prefermentation affects it’s performance in the gut compared to “sweet” cassava starch.

  39. Brad on November 18, 2013 at 18:15

    Tater, just note which brand and make you are using since there may be differences as I alluded to above. Did you test it in cold water to see if it separated out as starch does? That doesn’t mean it has high RS, but it’s a start.

  40. Spanish Caravan on November 18, 2013 at 19:39

    Hey Wally, there is another way. I also had nightshade reactions to PS after about a week. I’m also kind of allergic (but not as bad) to mung bean starch and Hi Maize corn starch. If you’re that food-sensitive, then basically you’re left with plantain starch. The best way is to get plantain starch from Amazon: I recommend Barry Farm’s. I tried Lall’s and I could smell something that didn’t seem to be plantain or green banana and I had some allergic reaction (could be me imagining).

    The other way is RE = Retention Enema. Do it at night before going to bed after having gone to the bathroom. There is no chance that PS will travel to your small intestine and make you react. I’ve tried it twice already and it was beautiful. BM like soft ice cream.

  41. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 12:23

    @Mike Ede – I played your game, now you play mine:

    Please skim through and report back. If you are not familiar with some of the terms, an important concept is TJs. TJs are Tight Junction Complexes in the gut–the site where leaky gut happens. Tell us what causes leaky gut and what fixes it.

  42. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 14:41

    Brad – It says on the package, “Tapioca Flour, also known as Tapioca Starch” In big letters.

    From their website:

    Tapioca flour, also known as tapioca starch, is a starchy white flour that has a slight sweet flavor to it. Tapioca flour is an alternative to traditional wheat flours and has a variety of uses in baking. The flour is made from the starch extracted from the South American cassava plant. When the roots have fully developed, they are harvested and processed to remove toxins. The starch is then extracted from the root by a repeated process of washing and pulping the mixture, then separating off the liquid.

    See if you can open this:

    If you dig through, you will find a table showing that tapioca starch has the highest digestibility of any of the starches they tested.

    I’d say, bottom line, that tapioca flour/starch, like from Bob’s Red Mill, is a source of RS that comes with an equal amount of readily digestible starch.

  43. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 16:38

    Tater, the paper claims the cassava starch has the highest RS (“amido resistente” in Portuguese) of both the potato and corn starch – 42%. Total starch is 78% for cassava versus 70% for potato starch and 77.6% for corn starch.

    Paper: “utilizacao dos amidos de milho e de batata na elaboracao de tapioca”

  44. Mike Ede on November 19, 2013 at 02:20

    Tatertot,
    Have you seen this paper?

    http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FBJN%2FBJN84_05%2FS0007114500002038a.pdf&code=73b040c529191a587005a5003ed21b36

    Worth reading the discussion and conclusions at the end.

    The rat model study referenced ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8566598 ) showing increased tumour size is a bit of a concern (although I doubt any of us are consuming 20% of our diet as potato starch!)

  45. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 06:44

    @MikeEde, Link shows “File not available” for me.

  46. Spanish Caravan on November 19, 2013 at 22:24

    Here’s my BG testing with Barry Farm’s plantain/banana starch:

    Start: 113
    15 min: 120
    30 min: 112
    45 min: 102
    60 min: 101
    75 min: 105

    I started in between meals when my FBG was a bit too high. So I don’t think peaking at 120 is significant. My conclusion is that Barry Farm’s plantain starch has significant RS content; most of it is resisisting absorption and going to the large intestine. Notice that my BG is actually lower 30 minutes onward.

  47. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 08:40

    I couldn’t open it, either. I was able to look at the rat-model link, though. I remember seeing this, it was about experiments to see if potato starch or RS had any effect on genetic predisposition of colon cancer, and the answer was ‘NO’. I would love to see the study if you have a better link.

  48. Wally on November 19, 2013 at 09:08

    Thanks for the tip SC, gonna look it up right now.

  49. GuerillaThrilla on November 19, 2013 at 09:21

    First and foremost, I just came across your blog through MDA. Honestly, I think this is a great blog and has become part of my daily reading material. Thanks for that.

    I’m very curious to learn more about RS. Where would you recommend I start? I’ve been reading all of the articles that you have posted and am trying to just find the starting point for myself. I currently am lc paleo 6 days out of the week.

  50. Mike Ede on November 19, 2013 at 09:53

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.cambridge.org%2Farticle_S0007114500002038&ei=26SLUp-cIOjU0QWe7ICACw&usg=AFQjCNFWYPlf-gpX-0lW6kEcmRjxRTKR2g&bvm=bv.56643336,d.d2k

    Should work or do a Google search for

    Potato and high-amylose maize starches are not equivalent producers of butyrate for the colonic mucosa.

    and click the journals.cambridge link.

    Sorry about that.

  51. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 10:25

    @Mike E – Got it! Fascinating. Not sure what to make of the results and conclusions, but it does show that potato starch is different than corn starches. One thing I didn’t like about the study was that they switched the diet after only 5 days. Lots of studies I’ve seen show it can take 30 days to acclimate gut microbes to RS types.

    None-the-less, to recap, they fed pigs, which have similar gut structure to humans, the human-equivalent of 15g potato starch per day (approx 2TBS) and saw that butyrate production was greater than in pigs fed two different types of corn starch RS.

    The concern they had that was with potato starch, more butyrate showed up in the blood, meaning it was not entirely used in the colon. But this did not necessarily indicate it was a bad thing, just different.

    What was your take?

  52. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 10:36

    @Tater, looking forward to you BG test with the tapioca starch. Please see my above info on the different types if you didn’t already. cheers, -Brad-

  53. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 11:17

    Brad – I just downed 6TBS of tapioca starch in water 5 minutes ago, will report back in a couple hours with 15 min interval PP readings. I read your links above. Lots of variables with tapioca. I can guarantee the tapioca pearls are not a good RS source, they are made with precooked tapioca, so more in line with potato flour or pre-gelatinized potato starch.

  54. Mike Ede on November 19, 2013 at 11:17

    That was pretty much as I read it although I think they thought the higher butyrate level in the portal vein meant it was being fermented in a different part of the gut?

  55. Mike Ede on November 19, 2013 at 11:47

    BTW Butyrate production was lower in potato starch than in the retrograded high-amylose maize starch. See table 3.

  56. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 13:12

    TAPIOCA ALERT!

    Ok, sports fans, just did 2 hour pps after downing 5TBS of Bob’s Red Mill Tapioca Starch, aka Tapioca Flour.

    FBG – 78
    10 minute pp’s:
    108
    123
    118
    123
    138
    133
    130
    128
    125
    90

    For comparison, here is 6TBS of Bob’s Potato Starch I did last summer:
    FBG – 89
    PP’s:
    90
    91
    88
    87
    90
    92
    84
    84
    88
    89

    So, what say ye? I say tapioca starch contains way too much digestible starch to be useful as an RS supplement. I don’t think I get a sustained spike like that with 2 big potatoes.

    Thoughts?

  57. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 13:51

    Yeah, I would have to agree given your results, at least for that particular brand. This makes me believe that it is actually *flour* as apposed to *raw* starch. So Tater, can you mix a heaping spoon with some cold water and let us know if it clumps up or separates out and sinks to the bottom (leaving clear water on top) after 30-60 minutes? That will tell us if it’s cooked or raw starch I think.

    Of course it’s also possible that *all* tapioca starch just sucks as far as RS content. Verdict is approaching…

  58. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 13:57

    Tater, does the package actually say tapioca “starch” or “flour”? I did a quick search and could only find Bob’s Red Mill Tapioca *Flour*. The word flour is a dead giveaway that it has been heated and is not raw, though I’m sure you know that. ;-)

  59. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 14:38

    Well, for those who can easily find potato starch, that seems like the safer route. But for those of us where cassava/tapioca starch is more easily found, lets dig a little deeper shall we (with Tater’s help)?…

    There seems some ambiguity over the difference between “cassava starch” and “tapioca” flour/starch and how Bob’s is made. Below is Bob’s Red Mill Tapioca Flour description followed by definitions from a cassava growers industry organization that distinguishes between tapioca and cassava starch…

    Bob’s Tapioca Flour: “Tapioca flour, also known as tapioca starch, is a starchy white flour that has a slight sweet flavor to it. …The flour is made from the starch extracted from the South American cassava plant. When the roots have fully developed, they are harvested and processed to remove toxins. The starch is then extracted from the root by a repeated process of washing and pulping the mixture, then separating off the liquid. ”

    Cassava Starch Production (not heated): http://www.cassavabiz.org/postharvest/starch03.htm
    “Extraction of starch from fresh cassava roots (Fig. 1) can be divided into five main stages: preparation (peeling and washing), rasping/pulping/grating, purification (starch washing), dewatering and drying, and finishing (milling and packaging).”

    Tapioca Production (has roasting phase): http://www.cassavabiz.org/postharvest/tapioca01.htm
    “Tapioca meal is made from partly gelatinized cassava starch through the application of heat treatment to moist mash in shallow pans. When heated, the wet granules gelatinize, burst, and stick together. The mass is stirred to prevent scorching. It is manufactured in the form of irregular lumps called grits or in perfectly round beads.
    The grits are made into a grained product by milling gelatinized lumps and sifting.”

  60. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 14:44

    Wow, simul-posting!

    The second reference to tapioca beads, is what I said erlier–definitely not much RS. The first refence to making unheated tapioca starch seems like they are preserving the RS but I think there is so much readily digested starch also it’s a wash whether you want to use it or not.

  61. yien on November 19, 2013 at 15:47

    So, FTA-approved high RS products (40-50%+) are – Bob’s Red Mill raw PS, and most banana/plantain flours? Are there any others?

    Is anyone getting good results from any bean flours?

  62. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 15:52

    Tater, I just found and read a PDF of a Brazilian’s thesis for masters degree (in Portuguese) and reviewed by various professors/PHD’s. The purpose of the thesis was specifically to compare RS quantities of Cassava, Corn, and Potato starch where he chose some off the shelf products (in Brazil) and found the Cassava starch has slightly more RS than the other two. So I’m pretty sure the Bob’s is flour and not (raw) starch. Let me know the results of your cold water mixture test with Bob’s tapioca flour. Thanks! Btw, my anecdotal evidence (fartage) tends to support the stuff I’m eating is high RS starch. I don’t have ready access to BG tests.

  63. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 16:21

    Yien – Potato starch for those that don’t have nightshade issues. Other than that, green banana (plantain flour), tapioca starch, and mung bean starch seem to be good RS sources, but may have a good bit of digestible starch.

    I have never tried mung bean starch. I like using plantain flour, but have never done a blood-glucose test on it. I may have some at home, if so, I will try it out tomorrow.

    Sorry this isn’t an exact science yet, but we are trying!

    @Brad – Good find. I suspect you are correct that not all tapioca starch is created equal. In the thesis you read, what RS value did they give to cassava and potatoes? Just curious.

    I did a cold water test, and it seemed like half and half starch/flour. Lots of white stayed suspended, but also got that cement-like non-newtonian fluid that pure starch creates. It wasn’t at all like pure flour.

  64. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 16:43

    In the paper he says he used the Champ method for determining RS…
    Champ M. (1992). Determination of resistant starch in foods and food products: interlaboratory study. Eur. J. Clin. Nutr., 46: ((Suppl 1)) S51-S61.

  65. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 16:44
  66. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 17:08

    Tater, regarding comparing the RS of the potato starch in that paper, I’m trying to figure it out. It gives RS content as a relation to “armazenamento” (storage)… at 0, 12, 24, and 48 hours. At 0, tapioca had 42% versus potato at 21% and then by 48 hours tapioca had 48% and potato had over taken it at 54%. I’m trying to extract the text and translate it but the PDF is protected from exporting text.

  67. Brad on November 19, 2013 at 17:36

    Tater, that PDF you just sent seems to agree more or less with this Brazilian guys paper. It shows “Cassava starch, commercial” as 94% total starch and 44.6% RS. Again, I think the problem is that many of these U.S. products are using the word “tapioca flour”, “tapioca starch”, and “cassava starch” as if they are all the same and they are not. Tapioca = no RS. Cassava starch = high RS. It appears that nobody is selling real cassava starch in the U.S., though it’s difficult to tell because the makers often don’t provide the details of how the product is made.

    That above mentioned time-of-storage thing has something to do with the time after having added Sodium Stearoyl-2Lactylate (SSL), apparently a type of additive common in flours and baked goods.

  68. Wally on November 19, 2013 at 20:55

    Hey Tatertot I have a side question. Which of the RS influence your BP more? I’m assuming the bean ones would be a culprit but, if you have anything to share on that topic it would be greatly appreciated.

  69. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 21:46

    Wally – I have never seen anything connecting RS and blood pressure.

    I had high BP on SAD and on 2 meds to get it down to 135/90. When I started paleo, low carb, withing 2 months it was in 130/80 with no meds. Lately it’s 120/75. I think BP is more related to overall health, fitness, and weight as opposed to foods/salt.

  70. Spanish Caravan on November 19, 2013 at 22:14

    Brad, even if that cassava starch happens to be RS, it’s still not as effective as PS or mung bean starch. The reason has to do with amylose, which resists digestion. It’s not just RS content. Check out:

    Resistant starch content, molecular structure and physicochemical properties of starches in Virginia grown
    corn, potato and mungbean, Yixiang Xu1*, Cory Grizzard1, Edward N. Sismour1, Harbans L. Bhardwaj1 and Zhenxing Li2

  71. Spanish Caravan on November 19, 2013 at 22:29

    Oh, that was 4 tablespoons of plantain starch dissovled in a glass of water. That’s equivalent to: 90 calories, 22 grams of carbs, and 2 grams of fiber = 20 grams of net carbs.

    I would say this probably has zero glycemic load.

  72. Brad on November 20, 2013 at 13:38

    Dunno if anyone else cares about the tapioca starch subject, but here’s a bit more info.
    So here are a couple products that I’m pretty sure are *real* raw starch, given by the fact that they are labeled “polvilho doce” (sweet powder) or “amido doce” (sweet starch).

    The word doce/sweet comes from the fact that no fermentation has been applied to the starch paste, as apposed to this one “Amido azedo” (sour starch)…

    It’s my belief that the Bob’s Red Mill Tapioca *Flour* is just that, flour, not starch like Bob’s Potato starch is. And I’ve seen lots of other brands that I think are similar – mainly due to the fact that they are created as gluten (wheat) free substitutes for baking, and real cassava starch would not work well as a wheat substitute because it’s paste properties are completely different. It becomes really stretchy/gooey with added water and heat which works great if you’re making Brazilian cheese-bread balls (pao de queijo), or a tapioca dessert, but horrible if you’re trying to make bread, pizza, or a dry pastry shell.

    This is what I believe so far from what I have seen/found. It could change in the future as the search for the truth continues ;-)

  73. tatertot on November 19, 2013 at 22:47

    Cool! I have 4TBS of barry’s farm plantain starch, too. Will report BGs tomorrow. I expect to see what you saw. Barely a blip. the tapioca starch really surprised me.

  74. Paul on November 20, 2013 at 05:52

    I’ve been going on about 5 days of 4T of potato starch a day. I had been doing PS earlier but ran in to bloating issues, so I gave it a break and worked my way up to 4T again.

    Now I have no major gas and no bloating from the PS, but I am decidedly not regular. Should I just keep going with the 4T if there are no other issues? I suspect I have some gut imbalance that needs fixing. From reading the thread on MDA, it also seems like I should add psyllium husk to the mix.

  75. Brad on November 20, 2013 at 06:13

    @SpanishCaravan, My point is not whether or not cassava starch is more or less effective than potato starch. If it’s effective at all (high RS) is good enough I think. My reason is that cassava is grown throughout the world in much larger quantities than potatoes and so may be more easily found, and cheaper, in many areas. Are you saying that cassava starch is not very high in RS due to it’s amylose/amylopectine content or ratio?

  76. The Natural on November 20, 2013 at 06:56

    Spanish Caravan,
    You mentioned Plantain Starch but on Barry Farms website it says Plantain Flour- is it the same?

    Also, any more updates on Retention Enema with PS? have you done it again? How did it go the second or third time around?

    T-nat

  77. Tatertot on November 20, 2013 at 08:43

    @Paul – I think psyllium husk powder is a good addition to potato starch. It gets pretty gummy, so play with amounts, but there isa nice study that shows when psyllium is combined with RS it allows for greater dispersal of fermentation throughout the large intestine, something about the water-holding properties of psyllium.

  78. tatertot on November 20, 2013 at 10:15

    Getting ready to down my banana flour, but wanted to share this…maybe tapioca starch, glucose spike and all, can play a part after all. Look at this description of SuperStarch from a comment by Peter Attia and keep in mind that tapioca starch caused a long, sustained rise in my BG unlike anything I have seen in a while.

    ” As far as RS, I do not know how much, if any, RS is in UCAN’s product, but it would definitely be worth asking them directly. It is worth noting, however, that one thing that separates UCAN’s product from other variants is the following feature pairing:

    1. It is very slowly broken down, *but*
    2. Is is fully absorbed.

    This is important for 2 reasons. There are many products that meet condition #1 (but not #2) — RS is a great example in the most extreme state; conversely, most glucose loads meet #2 (but not #1). The former is problematic for performance (or Glycogen Storage Disease, which is what UCAN’s product was developed for) because the athlete (or patient) can’t actually access the glucose they need and the purpose of supplemental glucose is defeated. The latter is problematic for all the reasons we know pertaining to glycemic control, osmolarity, osmolality, and impact on lipolysis.

    So…without really answering your question, hopefully I’ve addressed the confusion…a RS is not really what an athlete wants (or someone with GSD wants) because they actually do need the glucose — the key is giving it to them slowly and in a completely sustained release pattern.”

  79. Spanish Caravan on November 20, 2013 at 10:41

    Natural, yes, it’s the same thing, I mean Plantain Flour. That’s the one I tested. I only do enema on weekends. Done it twice. That turmoil died down the second time. BM like soft ice cream. If you’re interested in transporting the RS all the way downstream to the distal colon, there seems to be nothing better. Last time, I made a mixture of 2 tbsp. of PS, 1 tbsp. of mung bean starch, and 1 tbsp. of Hi Maize. Trying to diversify since Dr. Edes commented that too much PS might contribute to tumorigenesis.

  80. tatertot on November 20, 2013 at 10:46

    @SpanCar – Was that Dr. Edes who posted that study the other day? User name was Mike Ede, I wondered?

  81. Spanish Caravan on November 20, 2013 at 10:56

    Brad, sorry, I got Cassava Starch mixed up with Hi Maize Corn Starch. See that study I cited ranks 3 different starches in terms of RS content and amylose. It turns out while PS has the highest RS content, mungbean starch has the highest amylose. I had a terrific result with mungbean starch. All I did was 1 tbsp. and I’m kind of afraid to do 4 tbsps. of that stuff; but I also seem to be allergic to mungbean (it’s a legume after all). Sorry, cassava starch, I really haven’t looked up. There are studies floating around. But if BRM’s tapioca flour is highly processed in order to rid of cyanide, etc. then chance are it might not have high RS content (amylose, I’m not sure). And I’m not sure about other cassava starch brands. You know that the outer skin is very, very tough and supposedly has cyanide. Are they peeling it? They would have to to be safe.

    I only seem to react to potato skin, so my guess is that BRM’s unmodified potato starch is probably pulverized with the skin on. Double trouble for cassava then: with the skin on, it could preserve some toxic elements; to keep it safe, however, it might undergo some additional processing other than merely grounding it like PS.

  82. Spanish Caravan on November 20, 2013 at 11:20

    Tater, I just assumed that was him of Protein Powder fame. I don’t believe an everyday person pores over medical journals to gauge the safety of PS. Btw, that article he cited is actually a metastudy: it cites original sources, which I haven’t gotten hold of. Here’s the relevant passage:

    “Many studies have attempted to demonstrate the beneficial role of RS in the prevention of colonic cancers
    by stimulating digestive fermentation, especially butyrate production (Bingham, 1990). Nevertheless, Young et al. (1996) demonstrated that rats fed a diet containing 20 % PoS had larger and more frequent tumours than rats consuming a basic diet or the same diet enriched with wheat bran. Other authors (Perrin, 1996; Sakamoto et al. 1996; Young et al. 1996) have also obtained contradictory results with different RS sources in relation to the potential beneficial effects of RS (and butyrate production) on aberrant crypt foci in rats exposed to carcinogens.”

    Here’re the primary sources:
    Young GP, McIntyre A, Albert V, Folino M, Muir JG & Gibson PR (1996) Wheat bran suppresses potato starch± potentially colorectal tumorigenesis at the aberrant crypt stage in a rat model. Gastroenterology 110, 508±514.

    Sakamoto J, Nakaji S, Sugawara K, Iwane S & Munakata A (1996) Comparison of resistant starch with cellulose diet on 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colonic carcinogenesis in rats. Gastroenterology 110, 116±120.

    Perrin P (1996) Modulation of cancer cells phenotype in rats by butyrate: application to immunotherapy and prevention for colon cancer. PhD Thesis, University of Nantes, France.

    The author suggests that one possibility is acidosis caused by PS, but his own prior study didn’t support PS lowering pH. That was limited only to PS, not the 2 Hi Maize starches consumed. So I’m thinking just in case maybe it’s prude to diversify your RS intake: maybe not 4 tbsp. of PS only but 1 tbsp. of mungbean, 1 tbsp. of Hi Maize, 1 tbsp. of PS and 1 tbsp. of plantain flour, all of which I have.

  83. Paul on November 20, 2013 at 11:45

    Interesting bit in Chris Kresser’s new podcast about gut biome. He says:

    “Richard Nikoley over at Free the Animal has been writing a lot about resistant starch, and a lot of people with blood sugar issues have seen drops of, like, 10 or 15 mg/dL of their fasting blood sugar just from taking 4 tablespoons a day of potato starch, which has, as you know, a lot of resistant starch in it. And in my patients, I’ve seen a similar response and also with people with long-term constipation and gut issues.”

    I knew he’d talked about resistant starch before, but I think this is the first time I’ve seen him mention treating patients with PS.

  84. tatertot on November 20, 2013 at 13:11

    Barry Farms Plantain Flour, 4TBS:

    FBG – 80
    10 min pps:
    84
    83
    82
    91
    93
    91
    89
    93
    88
    93

    A lot different than tapioca starch!

  85. Brad on November 20, 2013 at 13:45

    What I read what that in addition to heat, if a pressurized extrusion process is used to produce the cassava starch/flour it will burst or otherwise disrupt the starch crystals lowering if not completely eliminating the amount of RS. This is in addition to the fact that they may or may not perform fermentation and that there are also different cultivars of cassava root. It’s really a shame that these food makers do not give any details about either the source or the methods used to create their products. Hopefully that will change once people learn more about RS and begin to look for it in products.

  86. MsMcGillicuddy on November 20, 2013 at 16:42

    Article linking gut flora and diabetes…. related topic:

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1471-230X-13-81

  87. DrBG/grace on November 21, 2013 at 02:28

    Spanish,

    It’s is interesting to me that you had a potential nightshade reaction with the PS. Thanks so mich for sharing!

    If it is true, then it indicates some possible factors,
    — intestinal permeability and triggered immune system
    — low thyroid (and low adrenals)
    — poor gut micro biome and permeability

    Do you have RA, an autoimmune condition analagous to Type 1 diabetes where joints are the target of molecular mimicry. If so, how is the RA status? Are you on Rx immune suppressants or steroids? Do you consume dirty organic veggies and fermented vegetables? Did you try the soil based organism (SBO) probiotics yet? Do you suspect you have sibo and/or parasites?

    SBO probiotics protect against autoimmune diseases and reverses them. This is shown in animal model studies as well as anecdotes in paleo and WAPF land. The two studies are by Chernovsky et al and Ivanov et al
    http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.ch/2013/10/giq-and-distal-gut-microbiome-as-driver.html

    g

  88. Spanish Caravan on November 21, 2013 at 22:50

    Thanks Dr. BG, my goal is to rid of these food allergies, which hit me after I started VLCing. I kept eliminating but I became allergic to more foods. All this when my microbiota was being gutted with zero starch instake. I was never allergic to anything on SAD.

    Not sure if I have low Adrenals: mid-normal DHEA-sulfate, high-normal serum Cortisol; low-normal Progesterone; low Testosterone and Free T; low-normal Estradiol; low-normal Prolactin; and way too high Estrogen (125, and I’m a guy, no wonder I’m autoimmune) and mid-normal ACTH. But low T3 definitely. Also MTHR homozygous C677T mutation. But fatigue isn’t my issue and my digestion and energy is always good; it’s just these damn food allergies, autoimmunity, temperature control, Raynaud’s. You think Gaia will help my issues? By USP butyrate, you mean Hydrocortisone butyrate?

    Looks like this guy AV Chervonsky wrote a bunch of recent articles on autoimmunity and microbiota. I looked up II Ivanov and he has a paper out on segmented filamentous bacterium, which acts like Bacteroides against Prevotella Copri for RA?

    He’s the with same guy that wrote the article on RA and Prevotella Copri (D Littman):

    http://elife.elifesciences.org/content/2/e01202

    Where have you seen reversals of autoimmunity in Paleo and WAPF land through SBO? MDA? Paleohacks?

  89. Wally on November 21, 2013 at 10:03

    DrBG I have had a NS reaction to the PS the second time I tried it, but not the first time. Also the second time I tried it I had no gas/farting what so ever compared to the first time. Does this mean anything?

  90. DrBG/grace on November 22, 2013 at 04:13

    Spanish Caravan,

    No– sodium butyrate compounded enema. Pharmacists make it for you with a physician Rx.

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0006759

    There are a ton of cases on line — Paleohacks and here Cheeseslave who used Threelac which has 3 SBOs — B subtilis, E faecalis and B coagulans. Like her my gluten and dairy intolerances are gone. It’s just nice to not to have to live in a constant bubble and have a near flat tummy again.
    http://www.cheeseslave.com/how-i-reversed-my-food-allergies-with-probiotics/

    I’ve tried prescribe assist before but it failed because i still had boatloads of titanium and mercury on board. These toxins make cleaning up the small intestines nearly impossible until their offensive presence is reduced. Clay and charcoal helped me a ton ;) don’t exclude their ancient powers. Ha aha.

    Anyone who cannot make muscles and retain lean mass has adrenal issues and/or high estrogen. Whoa nelly your estrogen is higher than mine. Dude. Please read dr lam adrenal (google that). Your lab parameters all show adrenal dysregulation. Thank you so much for posting they should all reverse if you progress forward. Mine did. Both Tim and I were in the same boat with VLC. I had the exactly the same things you complain of except RA. Yes Gaia will help and fixing your microbiota will repair everything else. I suspect because you havent had complete reversal of everything yet, you probably (like me) suffer from parasites and pathogenic overgrowths. Consider WEEDING the gut a bit…. For me this also made the hugest difference. Integrative practitioners estimate that 90% of people or more have parasites, worms, protozoa, or pathogenic overgrowths.

  91. gabriella kadar on November 21, 2013 at 20:07

    Congratulations to Tatertot and the enthusiastic ongoing study of RS on the gut biome.

    I was taking 1 heaping tablespoon Bob’s Red Mill for a couple of weeks and then I developed a weird thing: But it’s not artifact and has nothing to do with the potato starch.

    I was getting an intense tsumani of nausea when my stomach emptied. I’d wretch and then sneeze twice and that would end it all. Cause: acidic apples.

    When there are too many variables, reduce and determine which was the causal issue after multiple changes.

    Back on the heaping tablespoon of Bob’s Red Mill PS mixed into yoghurt. I’ve to 4 more weeks before T3 testing in mid December. I’m sceptical about thyroid function but will continue daily.

  92. Spanish Caravan on November 21, 2013 at 20:21

    DrBG, thanks for your comment. Yes, I have RA. Under control with an elimination diet (gluten/dairy/nightshade/soy/egg-whites). No corticosteroids. Under good control but I do have cold fingers and low temperature issue from my VLC days.

    It looks like the only legumes I can stand are lentils and I’m allergic to PS, Hi Maize and Mung Bean. So that leaves plantain flour and dried plantains. I’m eating some raw gluten-free rolled oats and they’re terrific. Pretty good food source of RS, too. But I’ve been doing enema 2x week with PS, HM and Mung Bean. No nightshade/legume reaction that way! Wow, did I tell ya how that turned my BM into soft ice cream. The most frictionless and lubricant BM ever. The surest way to push your RS to the distal colon.

    I eat Bubbie’s sauerkraut, drink a cup of kombucha everyday. Just ordered your Probiotic-3 (SBO), Primal Defense, Prescript Assist, and some Psyllium powder. I’m gonna make some kvass soon. But I never really experimented with probiotics before except with ThreeLac and Swanson’s Soil Based Organisms, which didn’t do much. That was way before the RS protocol. So I’m looking forward to these probiotics that you recommend.

  93. Ggg/DrBG on November 21, 2013 at 21:55

    Spanish Caravan,

    Thanks for your reply! Sounds like you’ve made so much process. I’d love to see your food intolerances vanish and disappear.

    I had read your wonderful experiments earlier and appreciated so much what you discovered. Our rectums are certainly quite fascinating! I kept thinking if you had a nightshade allergy, I can think of better things to experiment with enema wise (like pure USP butyrate).

    Do you know what helped my adrenals became made of kevlar?? Adrenal support and the SBO probiotics. I’ve used Gaia adrenal/stress support (iherb.com) and the SBO ones that you listed above. My food intolerances all disappeared too. Before I’d experience even abdom and ankle swelling with nuts and gluten, but now ive been experimenting on travel and almost nada (super mild tummy). The Gaia adrenal botanicals have several herbals that work synergistically to improve cortisol, thyroid, gonad and adrenaline messages.

    I think when we are GI f*kcered, this puts tremendous strain on the adrenals since the surface area of the small intestines is GINORMOUS.

    G

  94. Ggg/DrBG on November 21, 2013 at 22:07

    Hey Gabriella,

    What do you mean exactly that the acidic apples interacted with the fiber? Sounds like you figured it out. Since you had nausea and sneezed do you think there was some kind of histamine dumping?

    Wally,

    Have you had NS reactions before? I suspect plantain flour is the safest for those with NS sensitivity. I think the allergenic alkaloids just are not flushed out sufficiently. A lot of chemicals are used to ‘ways and peel’ the skins off but honestly I don’t know the process for Bobs Red Mill.

    Often NS reactions are an indication of low thyroid and intestinal permeability, similar to all food intolerances.

    I don’t know much about the gas/fartage scale! I do believe that as the GI ecosystem and food substrates switch to improved enterotyping and beneficial populations, there will be shifts in the microbial by products. The cool thing is that methane and sulfate gases should go down (and other smelly putrescine compounds) as cross feeders increase and utilize these energy sources or utilize different pathways.

    Right now I’ve added yogurt soaked muesli every morning since I’m in Germany and Switzerland. Yes at first nothing like your experience, then the gases started. Not unpleasant or smelly but because I rarely have gas it’s odd.

    Thanks for the discussion!
    G

  95. Richard Nikoley on November 21, 2013 at 22:10

    “Our rectums are certainly quite fascinating!”

    What in the world have I done? :)

  96. Richard Nikoley on November 21, 2013 at 22:27

    Grace dahling, riddle me this.

    We have an EPI dog, pancreatic insufficiency. Rotor, you met him. So, he gets about a 1/4 tsp of desiccated porcine pancreas mixed with ever meal, let sit for 20 minutes. Interesting thing. Google it. Dogs that get it can eat all day and waste away anyway.

    Anyway, when I was doing dairy and not really being very strict with wheat, ever time I would mix the powder (which is very dry and light) and within a few minutes I would have a massive sneeze attack that would last for 5 minutes or so, then fine.

    A couple weeks dairy and wheat free and I no longer get it.

  97. Richard Nikoley on November 21, 2013 at 22:36

    I tried authentic muesli, done per the traditional way, figuring it probably has RS. Coma and heartburn.

  98. DrBG/grace on November 22, 2013 at 03:56

    Richard,

    Both you and your doggie have sibo ;( it’s epidemic. Get in line for how to mediate. Gluten would not cause heartburn if the right critters lived in then small intestine. The wrong ones growing in high populations in the wrong place (small intestines) feed on gluten and blow up gas, pushing it retrograded, upward.

    Did dog eat grain, corn, soy kibble for years? It probably caused gluten related pancreatitis which predisposes to a malfunctioning small intestine where the pancreas produces digestive enzymes for. No enzymes, then prolific feasts for stuff that overgrow there like fungi and pathogenic microbes. Parasites? People with pets get parasites. It’s just a fact. You dont need to lick their butt but they love on us, thus spreading their cooties ;) I mean there are clear benefits to their wonderful cooties like soil based organisms (granted no pesticides and organic as possible) lol!!

    Rectally oriented? I was gonna tell Spanish Caravan that I could certainly think of healthier things to stick up blanketly blank blank…. LIKE MY FINGER lo

  99. tatertot on November 23, 2013 at 08:32

    @Spanish/Grace – Shortly after a long course of abx in 2003, I started getting RA symptoms and gout flares. Eliminating wheat, sugar, veg oil, alcohol, and increasing antioxidants and polyphenols cured the gout, but not really the pain in my joints, especially hips. Since adopting PHD and RS, joint pain is completely gone, but will come back a tad if I get too much wheat.

    I think this is a sign that wheat is really bad and can compromise even a healthy gut.

  100. Spanish Caravan on November 23, 2013 at 12:25

    Tater, if you truly have gout (and that wasn’t pseudogout or gouty arthritis), you can’t get RA. The two are supposedly mutually exclusive. But it’s interesting: did you read that RA article by Littlman where he implicates Prevotella copri taking over Bacteroides as the onset of RA inflammatory symptoms? The thing with RA is that there are 2 separate but distinct developments: inflammation and autoimmune attack. You can often rollback RA with heavy antibiotics or anti-inflammatories at that initial stage; if it goes past that and you become seropositive for RAF or CCCP then perhaps too late.

    How about dairy, Tater? You never became allergic to dairy, right? For me, gluten and dairy hit me at the same time. Then came nightshades and egg whites. That you never became nightshade-sensitive tells me that whatever you had (RA , gouty arthritis, etc.) was rolled back before too late.

  101. tatertot on November 23, 2013 at 22:27

    @Span – I had a good diagnosis for gout, but not RA. Just had symptoms of joint pain, mainly hips and fingers. I never was allergic to dairy, nightshades, or anything really.

  102. Spanish Caravan on November 24, 2013 at 22:45

    Lucky you, Tater. I’m allergic to even ghee. I kid you not. I purchased 100% organic ghee from Purity Farms to see if I will at least tolerate it and I get the worst case of dry eyes with it. This from someone who grew up eating Cocoa Puffs and Sugar Corn Pop Cereal in whole milk everyday.

  103. Brad on November 25, 2013 at 16:47

    @Tater, If I purchase this raw cassava starch and sent it to you, could you test it’s effect on your BG as you did the Bob’s Tapioca Flour? Besides myself, it might help others where potato starch is not easily available. If you agree, you can send me your shipping address to my email address (bbaker6212-at-gmail-dot-com) and I will send a bag of this to you…

    I would do it myself by I don’t have easy access to BG testing means.

    Btw, at $10 this is 4 times more expensive that what I buy it, but this is prob due to import markup.

  104. Grace/Dr.BG on November 26, 2013 at 17:01

    Spanish,

    Everyone has parasites… Seriously. My kids and I all have — my autistic niece used to have as well. Richard has dogs — I’m 100% certain he does as well.

    These are very helpful — read these millenia ago and just didn’t believe until now.

    The Am Gut Project is good but for $99 the parasite, protozoa, worm, microbial/fungal overgrowth profile can be accurately assessed by the Geneva 2200 GI function stool test, plus a myriad of other information regarding immunity and digestion that will help the adrenal and gonad function as well. Let me know and I’ll help you to read it! I think it’s better to know precisely what to aim for then to try to reach unknown targets completely in the dark (which I did for years! LOL).

    The technology is here. Don’t dork around.

    g

  105. Grace/Dr.BG on November 26, 2013 at 16:55

    Tater,

    Have you ever tried clay or anti-parasitics? After antibiotics, I think our natural immunity against protozoa and parasites because severely compromised. Personally I think unless you have celiac (HLA DQ2.5/2/8) a small amount of wheat should not flare joint pain unless there are still auto-antibodies and intestinal permeability secondary to unresolved gut issues (mercury, parasites, protozoa, worms, etc). You mentioned being in foreign countries, often water and food sources are ridden with parasites and protozoa… they are quite impossible to avoid.

    Spanish Caravan,

    I hope you’ll excuse my raunch. I’m sorry — I love you and your cute ass. OK will take my mind outta the gutter!

    Regarding the RA, which antibodies are elevated? Have they started trending downward lately with all the interventions — PS, probiotics, etc?

    Have you met my girlfriend Diana from My RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis) Diary?
    http://www.myradiary.com/about-me

    She has identified some of the common reasons for RA and intestinal permeability — parasites, wheat, mercury, etc.

    g

  106. Richard Nikoley on November 26, 2013 at 18:32

    …The only parasites I’m sure I have are blog commenters—present company excluded (that got originally auto-corrected to ‘exploded’ laf), of course.

    Here’s where I’ve been for awhile in comments. Not to save here, but to teach others to not look so stupid.

    https://freetheanimal.com/2013/11/please-little-brookstone.html

    Here too, under “porn.”

    https://freetheanimal.com/2013/11/frenchman-americans-children.html

    (Not seeing any fingers in anus there, Grace. :)

  107. tatertot on November 26, 2013 at 20:49

    Grace – I have never tried clay. I use DE on my tomato plants, though, if that counts! I’m planning on doing one of the other stool tests next year with Jackie–maybe the Geneva 2200. It’s so hard to navigate through all the tests and know which ones are worthwhile.

    If I have parasites, I’ll do clay for sure!

  108. The Natural on November 27, 2013 at 10:03

    Grace-
    Are the Geneva 2200 and ONE offered by Metametrix or American Gut? I couldn’t find these tests on the Metametrix website. I am planning to get my gut profile mapped out in the next month or so.

    T-Nat

  109. Brad on November 27, 2013 at 10:42

    And how do you know that parasites are not beneficial? We would have evolved along with them and vice-versa. We should be adapted to them. Of course an imbalance – too many of them could be a problem.

  110. Brad on November 27, 2013 at 10:45

    One one friend that I know has had a problem with parasites – helminths. And he has a very nutrient poor diet. Coincidence? Me thinks not.

  111. tatertot on November 27, 2013 at 11:05

    @Brad – I think 100% that we are meant to have some parasites. H. Pylori is something that most people live with happily their whole life, but a weakening in defenses can cause it to be very harmful later in life.

    I’m thinking, too, this is where potato starch plays a big roll. Keeps the entire system healthy, gut less leaky, and parasites in check. Otherwise, your gut is like an unkept lawn, dandelions, crab-grass, and moles soon take over, but fertilize, water, and pull weeds before they go to seed and your lawn is beautiful and healthy.

  112. Grace/Dr.BG on November 27, 2013 at 20:38
  113. Spanish Caravan on November 27, 2013 at 22:07

    Er, Grace, you need a clinician to sponsor that for you. Which is why it’s easier to partake in the American Gut Project. There’s no GI that will order that for you, unless you do a colonoscopy first. That’s how things work in mainstream medicine. Why would he accede to something that’s not part of standard of care. So you have to find an acupuncturist or a herbalist who’ll order that stuff. Then you make an appointment, go see him and tell your story. There’s no guarantee he’ll order that still. He might say that you need an acupuncture and an aroma therapy instead. So why not go for the sure thang?

  114. Ggg/DrBG on November 27, 2013 at 22:25

    Spanish

    I can order it for u. I’m trained and use it on all of my patients (except those in NY)

    Also I know the designers of the test.
    G

  115. Spanish Caravan on November 28, 2013 at 16:22

    Hey, Doc, But I thought you lived in Manchuria? But can you? I’d appreciate it if you can. How would I go about doing it?

  116. yien on November 28, 2013 at 16:40

    Mike Ede, Tater, Spanish, Norm,

    I asked Graeme Young: “based on your research, do you believe it is beneficial to eat resistant starches to the order of 20-40 g/day?”

    His response was: “yes but avoiding excess calories and spreading the sources of resistant starch is important.”

  117. Spanish Caravan on November 28, 2013 at 20:34

    Yien, you forgot to ask whether he approves of doing an enema with different RS types (Hi Maize, PS, mung bean, plantain) if you are nightshade-sensitive. Specifically, how would the colon react to the direct infusion of RS from below as opposed to from above? Would that result in similar fermentation of RS or possibly more effective butyrate formation than the mouth-to-colon route. We have the diversion colitis experiment with Hi Maize suppositories to bank on. But we could leverage the expertise of someone who knows a thing or two about the colon.

  118. Brad on November 29, 2013 at 05:05

    Enemas? Really?… how about we just stick to things that are natural for us human animals… you know, food and exercise… those things we have been doing for millions of years. You can stick anything you want up your ass, eat clay, RS, and all manner of other “miracle” cures… it won’t make up for a lack of a nutrient dense diet and regular, intense exercise. If you’re not strength training don’t waste your time with dietary minutia… and even then it’s probably diminishing returns on time invested. I’m all for supp’ing RS if you don’t eat enough veggies and tubers but it cracks me up when people get all colon-crazy. Just eat the right foods and you colon will take care of itself. That’s my opinion anyway, though I know nobody asked for it ;-)

    It’s like an article I spied the other day about analyzing one’s stool… the shape, how hard it is, etc., as an indicator if your diet is right. Makes no sense to me.

  119. tatertot on November 29, 2013 at 08:30

    @yien – re: “I asked Graeme Young: “based on your research, do you believe it is beneficial to eat resistant starches to the order of 20-40 g/day?”

    His response was: “yes but avoiding excess calories and spreading the sources of resistant starch is important.””

    Aside from the fact I have absolutely no idea who Graeme Young is (should I?), his advice sounds exactly like what we have been saying here, doesn’t it?

    I hope everyone realizes that until we came up with the idea to eat potato starch, his advice was impossible to implement.

  120. tatertot on November 29, 2013 at 08:33

    @Brad – Thanks for bring us down to earth! It’s easy to see Jesus in burnt toast, but sometimes it’s just burnt toast. Although RS ‘up da butt’ probably does have a niche in the medical world, I can’t endorse anyone’s plans for doing this at home based on what we have been talking about.

  121. Richard Nikoley on November 29, 2013 at 08:42

    @Brad 1+

    Tater and I were just talking about this the other day.

    Thanks for keeping it REAL.

  122. Spanish Caravan on November 29, 2013 at 10:57

    Brad, you don’t seem to understand. Some of us cannot tolerate PS (or for that matter Hi Maize or legumes like mung bean) because of nightshade reaction. That’s why the enema method was devised and is being availed to by those with such a reaction. There is a lot of us with nightshade, corn and legume allergies; just check around.

    And there is a precedent for such a method being highly effective. You need to realize that no two rain drops are alike, Brad.

    http://gut.bmj.com/content/61/Suppl_2/A93.1

    Tater, Dr. Young is professor of gastrointestinal health at Flinders University down under and is acknowledged to be an authority on colorectal cancer. He’s published a half-dozen peer-reviewed articles on RS, oncogenesis, and colonic fermentation. Hence my query to him.

    http://www.flinders.edu.au/people/graeme.young

  123. Richard Nikoley on November 29, 2013 at 11:10

    Fair enough.

    I think Tim and I have an interest is keeping it very clear that this method may well be appropriate for people with specific needs or problems, but doesn’t mean that would normally apply to most people.

  124. Brad on November 30, 2013 at 05:26

    In the interest of completeness I will continue including my ongoing findings regarding that cassava/tapioca starch subject, for those of us that are the vast minority of readers here I’m sure, that live in places like Brazil, Africa, and various asian countries. Tater and/or I will be providing some BG test results in the future in an attempt to confirm the presence (or not) of RS in real/raw cassava starch sold in stores. I think Tater’s results with Bob’s Red Mill Tapioca Flour pretty much proves it is NOT raw cassava starch and has no appreciable amounts of RS. We’ll see about other brands/types.

    More info on the safety of raw cassava tubers is given below. The main takeaway IMO is that there are two main forms of cassava cultivars – “sweet” and “bitter”…

    ‘The so-called “sweet” types may be eaten raw or lightly boiled without harm.’

    I can’t imagine eating them raw but they must have boat loads of RS that way ;-)

    —–

    “1.4.1.2 The problems of cyanogenic glycosides in cassava

    Cassava roots and leaves contain cyanides in two different forms: i) the glycosides; linamarin and lotaustraline which are considered “bound” and ii) the non-glycosides; hydrogen cyanide (HCN) and cyanohydride which are considered “free”. Free cyanide comprises 8%-12% of the total tuber cyanide. This cyanide can, under some circumstances, lead to human toxicity problems and cassava for food use has to be processed to remove cyanide-containing substances

    There is remarkably little quantitative information on the effects of processing on cassava toxicity and its significance for humans. There is a great variation in toxicity between cultivars. A distinction is usually made between “sweet” cultivars with relatively low contents of cyanogenic glycosides (below 10mg/100g of fresh weight), and “bitter” cultivars with high cyanogenic glycoside content (above 20mg/100g fresh weight), although many intermediate forms exist. Traditionally the sweet cultivars were considered non-toxic while the bitter ones were considered toxic. Although the sweet cultivars are generally less toxic there is no direct correlation between toxicity and taste (Coursey and Haynes, 1970). Cyanide levels in the range 6 to 370 mg/kg have been found depending on the particular cultivar, growing conditions, (i.e. soil type, humidity, temperature) and the age of the plant. The highest proportion of HCN is found in the peels and the cortex layer immediately beneath the peels (Hahn, 1984; Onwueme, 1978). It is for this reason the cassava root is always peeled before being processed or consumed. Peeling removes the cortex and the outer periderm layer adhering to it. Peels can represent 10% to 20% of the fresh root weight, of which the periderm accounts for 0.5% to 2.0%.

    The lethal dose of free HCN for an adult is 50-60 mg but the toxicity of bound HCN is less clearly understood. The glycosides are hydrolysed to HCN by the endogenous enzyme linamarase, which is present in the human digestive tract. All the traditional cassava processing methods reduce or remove the toxicity by releasing HCN from the glycosides. Since HCN is soluble in water and has a boiling point of 25°C it can be removed by soaking. Boiling fresh cassava has little effect on its toxicity as the glycoside limamatine is heat resistant and the enzyme linamarase is inactivated at 75°C.

    While most processes rely on enzymatic hydrolysis to reduce the glycoside concentration, in practice the extent of glycoside breakdown is mainly controlled by fermentation time (Bruinsma et al. 1983). The so-called “sweet” types may be eaten raw or lightly boiled without harm. The “bitter” forms are traditionally processed by one or a combination of operations of peeling, grating, fermenting, dehydrating, sun drying, frying or boiling (Table 1.4). Hence, for example, fermentation before processing into products such as chikwangue or fufu eliminates almost all total and free HCN. The amount of total HCN is reduced by 83% to 96% in such products as gari and attieke for which the cassava roots are peeled and grated before processing.”

  125. Brad on November 30, 2013 at 05:54

    Regarding gelatinization of cassava/tapioca starch, important if you cook with it or include it in hot foods. I often include it in a warm coffee/protein drink. The thought of tasty, sweet baked goods that have a not insignificant quantity of RS to dampen the BG spike is an interesting idea. Wish I was a more experienced baker – would be appropriate given my last name ;-)

    “With cassava starch, gelatinization sets in at about 60°C, and the process is completed at about 80°C. The point of gelatinization depends to a certain extent on granule size, the smaller granules being more resistant to swelling.

    In the manufacture of baked products, the treatment is kept at a moderate temperature so as to cause gelatinization only in the surface layer of the lumps of moist starch. The product obtained therefore consists of agglomerations of practically raw starch enclosed by a thin layer of the tough and coherent gelatinized form.”

    http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5032e/x5032E04.htm#Extraction of starch from dried cassava roots

  126. Brad on November 30, 2013 at 06:07

    @Spanish Caravan, there are lots of different prebiotics. Onions, apples, roots and tubers of various forms (eg. yams, cassava, sweet potato). I would think finding those that are tolerated and focusing on those would be money better spent than butt-stuffing procedures. But if you want or need to get stuffed, go fer it! ;-) No offense, just kidding around.

  127. Grace/Dr.BG on November 30, 2013 at 14:22

    Spanish,

    Email me — ask Richard or Tim or Marie for my contact info. By the way, I live in Shanghai — it’s one of the top 20 cities of the world, not Hoboken or North Pole.

    Consider the ONE Optimal Nutri Eval as well (urine, non-invasive also) — my results are here below. It yields additional info for cancer DNA damage rate, toxins, digestion, adrenal and neurotransmitters (only $129 with insurance plan EasyPay deposit). Everything is reversible Spanish once you know what you are dealing with.

    url-removed/2013/09/my-n1-pre-and-post-microbiome-digestion.html

    g

  128. Mike Ede on December 9, 2013 at 07:13
  129. Grace/Dr.BG on December 9, 2013 at 18:09

    Mike Ede,

    I appreciate the link — had not heard yet about that research.

    Let me shed light on one of my best friends who inspires me to talk about SIBO. In January she discovered breast cancer (stage 1) in one breast then subsequently developed ovarian cancer (stage 1) immediately later. For nearly her whole life she suffered (and didn’t know) sugar, dairy and gluten intolerances, fibroids/infertility, and constipation (going only every 2-4 days). Everything was stage 1, and we don’t know if going semi-primal/paleo helped prevent a worse diagnosis.

    Linked???

    Our gut microbiome also detoxifies our most inflammatory estrogen metabolites. Yes we can take supplements like calcium-d-glucurate but it is far more optimal for our gut microbiota to do its fine job to detoxify these estrogens as well as other metabolic by-products, oxalates, lactate, glucuronides, etc which they are built to do.

    Estrogens and toxic environmental xenoestrogens play nasty roles in this epidemic of cancer that’s evident now. IMHO, SIBO/SIFO may lead certainly to cancer — prostate, colon, breast, you-name-it. And I believe it’s all addressable and preventable. I am so grateful for my friend’s journey, despite managing a chopped up underpit and boobie, numbness, and no female hormone bits. She’s young — my age with 4 young children!

    You and I will continue to know people with new cancer, and perhaps its blessing and power (like Richard’s blog FTA) is that it opens eyes and hearts. ;)

    Have you seen this?

    “As postulated and summarized by others [11], our
    results support the hypothesis that breast cancer risk in
    postmenopausal women and hip fracture risk in both
    postmenopausal women and elderly men is modulated by
    decades-long differences in systemic estrogens attributable
    to differences in the intestinal microbiota. ”
    http://www.translational-medicine.com/content/pdf/1479-5876-10-253.pdf

    Thanks Mike!

  130. gabriella kadar on December 9, 2013 at 18:20

    Grace, I saw photographs of the smog in Shanghai right now. OMG.

    In re: breast cancer, what about viruses like mammary mouse virus. Sampling of tissues find viruses as well. Maybe good gut immunology prevents the viruses from making merry. Don’t know.

    All mammary gland tumours in other ‘mammals’ (of course) are caused by viruses. So why should we be any different?

    My vet told me the cat had to be spayed because even if she doesn’t bear litters of kittens and even though she is a quiet, chirpy sort when she is in heat (makes bird chirpy sounds) there is a risk of developing mammary cancer. Definitely in this case it would be high estrogens. She’s spayed.

  131. Grace/Dr.BG on December 9, 2013 at 20:12

    Hey Gabriella,

    I know the air is actually ‘better’ but the past few were like being in a nuclear war zone… VERY POOPY! Thanks for your concern!

    Wish I knew more about viruses. Do you think our immunity can combat it? Gut microbiota along with immunity? I had 3 cats and none had mammary tumors thank goodness (spayed/neutered at 4mons) but they had endocrine issues that were related to autoimmune disease. Happened abruptly after we switching from dry kibble to wet, canned seafood kibble (estrogenic BPA lined cans? mercury/dioxins in the seafood?). All 3 died within 18-24 months after introduction of the food changes but lived healthy and active lives prior….

    I love ur cat — my cats used to chirp also!

  132. Neo on December 15, 2013 at 16:09

    Hey Brad,
    Please check this video I found on youtube.
    Seach: how to make starch (wet tapioca) from cassava (yuca)
    I’m curious to know if one can preserve RS in cassava by extracting starch at home. It doesn’t seen to hard. Especially if one has a vitamix.:)

  133. gabriella kadar on December 15, 2013 at 16:27

    Grace, my older cats developed a.) kidney failure b.) diabetes c.) hyperthyroidism. They’d been eating a combo of wet and dry until the vet recommended dry only…………well, I don’t think that was a good idea. The food had sweet potato in it.

    These days the catses (6 of them) get combo: wet and dry together. The dry is Wellness and Origen (the latter contains pea fibre). I noticed that some of these catfoods contain what may be resistant starch because when I switched the cats onto Wellness, they had very soft feces for a while. Now they are just juicy, not terribly stinky. Wellness also has bacteria sprayed onto it at the factory. The list of these is on the back of the bag.

    I am not a crazy cat lady.

    Mouse mammary tumour virus ubiquitous. Where there are humans, there are mice. and mouse shit. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20388779

  134. Neo on December 15, 2013 at 16:42

    Actually raw cassava tastes better than raw potatoes and way better than raw green plantains.
    When my mom used to grind raw cassava to make cassava cake (bolo de aipim), I used to eat chunks of it. It is sweet and crunchy. Give it a try.;)

  135. Neo on December 15, 2013 at 16:57

    Cassava is also called yuca.

  136. Brad on December 16, 2013 at 02:29

    @Neo, It seems like a lot of work to make your own even with a good blender, but that’s cool if you’re up for it. A buddy who lives in Miami said he found bags of Yoki brand “Manioc” starch for $1 each at one of those dollar/discount stores. I’m still interested in experimenting with just roasting some mandioca/aipim (Brazilian Portuguese for cassava) root over an open flame. Since I discovered that the “doce” (sweet) variety is safe to eat raw that opens up lots more options for cooking and consumption. Maybe roasting it will taste like shit, I’m just curious how our ancestors would have likely consumed it and it seems likely to me they would have done it this way – cooked outside and somewhat raw inside. Plus dry roasting starches through a process called “pyrolysis” creates another type of prebiotic called “Pyrodextrin” which is a resistant dextrin (RD), also called indigestible dextrin (ID).

    Section 8.2 here has details on RS and RD/ID: http://www.intechopen.com/books/carbohydrates-comprehensive-studies-on-glycobiology-and-glycotechnology/resistant-dextrins-as-prebiotic#SEC8

  137. Brad on December 16, 2013 at 02:41

    @Tatertot talked about re-frying cooked and cooled rice in some hot oil to increase the RS content. I believe that this could also be creating some Pyrodextrin. Some added acid is supposed to help the pyrolysis process so maybe adding a little lemon/lime juice or vinegar to the stir-fry could increase the amount of RD/ID. Perhaps the same for roasting cassava root. Dunno. More experimentation and testing will need to be done here.

    It’s obvious the whole subject of prebiotic starches is *MUCH* deeper than most people realize. It will be interesting to see what becomes known in the next 5 to 10 years no this subject.

  138. pzo on December 16, 2013 at 05:03

    @ Neo: Holy cow! You and your family are lucky you are alive and well! Don’t you know that raw cassava/yuca is toxic? Literally, it contains cyanide unless cooked!

    I guess yet another proof that the dose makes the poison.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=cassava+toxin&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

  139. Brad on December 16, 2013 at 05:38

    @PZO, this is incorrect. As I have said before and will continue to repeat it. There are toxic cultivars (types) of cassava and non-toxic cultivars. The non-toxic variety is commonly referred to as sweet cassava (in Portuguese – “madioca doce”) may be eaten raw (minus the outer peel). This latter version is the one people are cooking and eating as I’m sure @Neo and his mother knows. The more toxic cultivar is referred to as “amargo” (bitter) cassava. It’s commonly used industrially to make flour, animal foods, etc., but can also be eaten if processed and cooked correctly – which involves soaking.

  140. Neo on December 16, 2013 at 06:37

    The safe variety is sweet. It is almost like eating raw carrots.
    Poisoning by raw cassava is a very rare occurrence because the toxic kind tastes really bitter as native Brazilians Indians would know.

  141. Neo on December 16, 2013 at 07:03

    But in end of the day I will stick with plantain flour for RS suplementation. It’s easier to incorporate in my routine.
    Thank you guys for all the experimentation.
    I felt great in a low carb diet except that I couldn’t sleep at night. Adding RS to my diet has been great. I feel that fat loss is still going on but in a slower pace. Fine by me. Better slower but steady.
    Thanks again:)

  142. Neo on December 16, 2013 at 07:04

    And I sleep like a baby now.

  143. BrazilBrad on January 5, 2014 at 06:12

    Well, we got one set of data on the “Polvilho Doce” (supposedly raw cassava starch) and Green Banana flour. From a doctor who runs the most popular LC/Paleo blog in Brazil/Portuguese. He eats a VLC/keto diet so take that into consideration on his results. I will hopefully test soon to compare as my diet is quite different from his and I want to use the same 5tbs that Tatertot used for comparison. I don’t eat VLC nor even LC at the moment – actually I’m testing out the potato hack. And I think another set of data will be good settle things regarding RS content.

    His fasting BG ~80:

    Cassava Starch (“polvilho doce”) 2tbs in water: BG went to 100 and pretty much stayed there. He was testing every 30 minutes. Unfortunately he used 2 tbs so tough to compare with Tatertot’s results above.

    Green Banana Flour 4tbs in water: BG went to 117.

    Potato Starch (“fecula de batata”): two brands tbd soon hopefully.

    His blog in Portuguese (o blog dele) – Dieta Low-Carb e Paleolítica:

  144. Art on February 17, 2014 at 14:20

    On the UK site:

    This is absolutely fine. I’m using it now.

    Keep in mind that, especially in Europe, packets labelled as potato flour are often actually potato starch. If you have oriental food stores about you they’ll likely stock it.

    To test: potato starch will sink in water; will form a weird gel/ solid when heated with water in the microwave.

  145. Violeta on February 17, 2014 at 13:11

    Does anyone know where I can find raw potato starch or equivalent in Belgium, Europe? I tried amazon – the French and the UK one – but they only offer potato flour.

  146. Violeta on February 18, 2014 at 01:49

    Many thanks for the quick response. I didn’t realise that starch and flour can mean be the same thing (in some cases). Great tip for testing the starch, thanks. I just placed an order for the starch and really looking forward to start using it.

Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.